2014.10.02 13:00 - Dangerously Open Mind

eliza was guardian for this session...

Agatha Macbeth: Boo
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Hi :))
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Sorry I'm slow on the uptake. I've had to change computers and am on a diff SL
Agatha Macbeth: A different SL? Wow
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): I just remembered my intention to meet in a diff spot this week
Agatha Macbeth grins
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal) smiles... diff viewer anyway

Agatha Macbeth: We could have gone to the old tea house
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): pretty here isn't it... never used... and in view of the pavilion
Agatha Macbeth: As long as we don't get a huge crowd
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): lol I'm so used to the mac that I'm having a pretty hard time
Agatha Macbeth: Is it broken?
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): the mac has reached a certain capacity and isn't working well. I need to keep work files protected on that
Agatha Macbeth: Oh I see
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): so I had to buy a diff computer for other work...
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): and it has to be a PC
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): so - getting used to that :)

Agatha Macbeth: Just TPing Bleu
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Let me find my tea pot...
Agatha Macbeth: Yay Bleuji
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): hiya
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Hi Bleu :) Did the notice come through?
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): not sure
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): ah yes see it now
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): I am scrambling a little... am using diff computer and viewer
Agatha Macbeth: Like me, never read em :p
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): and had forgotten the intention to meet away from the pavilion, so am looking for how to open the map
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): :)
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Solobill hasn't been in SL in a long time... weird that this tea house still stands
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): guess Storm leaves it because its pretty
Agatha Macbeth: Yes it is

Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): How are you both today?
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): pretty good, u?
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): hi San
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Oops..wrong window. Hi San :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hi San, let me get Korel too
San (Santoshima): hello ~ ty Agatha
Agatha Macbeth: YW
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Thanks Agatha... have only been able to find my minimap so far
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Hi Kori :)
Agatha Macbeth: Osiyo K
Korel Laloix: osiyo
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): hi Kori
Agatha Macbeth: I can see this being complex :p
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): we'll get through it somehow :P
Agatha Macbeth: We should make a notice to stick in the pool
San (Santoshima): it's easy to find you if you are Pab reatreat land

Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): well... I'll keep looking, but in the meantime, Kori are you home now?
Agatha Macbeth nods
Korel Laloix: Oh no... not for a bit.
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Ah, where are you now then?
Korel Laloix: Two more weekends here.
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): And what is it like?
Korel Laloix: Masindi
Korel Laloix: Not sure, we got here in the dark.
Agatha Macbeth: Hehe
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Enjoying the work?
Korel Laloix: Very much so, but there is lots to not enjoy as wel.
Agatha Macbeth: :(
Korel Laloix: But still very glad I am doing this.
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): meaningful, so I guess everything else is in context

Scotish Breakfast Tea whispers: This wonderful tea brings the songs of the highlands and the scents of the heather to your heart, Agatha Macbeth.  This tea was created with you in mind.

Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): :) Wonder if these cushions will allow tea drinking...
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): didn't get much time to play around and I'm not sure Solo used this much
Agatha Macbeth: One way to find out...
Agatha Macbeth: Yes!
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): aha
Agatha Macbeth: Oho
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal) grins
Agatha Macbeth: The cushions of Bill are a-working

Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): I was thinking about openheartedness (in a cynical world) today, as a topic, but now that I've arrived I'm not sure...doesn't seem quite right
Agatha Macbeth smiles
Agatha Macbeth: An open mind is a good thing too
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): especially doing "good works" and all that :), yes
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): interested to hear others' musings

Korel Laloix: I dissagree.. I think an open mind is dangerous.  But could be just a language thing.
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe
Korel Laloix: You have to have some standards.
Korel Laloix: Some anchor.
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): do you feel being too openminded leaves one too vulnerable?
Agatha Macbeth: Well as opposed to being an out and out bigot for example
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): :)
Korel Laloix: And the saying that you need to be open minded is really an insult.
San (Santoshima): true
Korel Laloix: What it usualy means is that you are stupid and should agree with me.
San (Santoshima): true
Agatha Macbeth: Perhaps they mean open ended
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): it can be... but the opposite is true as well

Bleu (Bleu Oleander): as usual we should say what we mean by "open mind" before debating it maybe?
Korel Laloix: Open mindedness is a bad idium.
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): I don't think of it that way
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): but could be diff to diff folks
San (Santoshima): always
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): we're probably coming from different contexts... what came to mind for me was the saying that opinions weigh less than examples

Agatha Macbeth: There's a need to be receptive I think
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): open mind can simply mean receptive to new ideas perhaps?
Korel Laloix: I would not use the word receptive... but not sure the right word.
Agatha Macbeth nods
Agatha Macbeth: Or at least not dismiss them out of hand
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): willing to entertain?
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): I like the phrase openness minded
Korel Laloix: Willing to look at.
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): so having capacity to entertain various views
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): yes
Korel Laloix: I don't like the phrase at it is used primarly as an insult.
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): I don't use it that way myself
Agatha Macbeth: That's odd K, I've never encountered that
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Eos left  a few lines in his empty session Tuesday... just that he was sitting, and stories fell away.
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Hi Zon :)
Agatha Macbeth smiles
Korel Laloix: I have been told that way more than once when I dissagreed woth someone.

Bleu (Bleu Oleander): hi Zon
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Kori, do you read fiction?
Korel Laloix: heya
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Zon
Zon Kwan: heya
San (Santoshima): hello zon
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Hi Zon, thanks Agatha
Agatha Macbeth: Wow new outfit
Korel Laloix: Not much really.. but reading more now that I am out of classes.
Korel Laloix: Any recomendations?
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): I was thinking about the way you hear that phrase "open minded" - and remembering a time when it was hard for me to read something, even if fiction, if it was very counter to my own thinking

Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): I used to see openmindedness as having a lack of integrity
Korel Laloix: I see it a being gullible.
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): to?
Korel Laloix: People take advantage of you if you are overly open.
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Ah, like "you smile too much"
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): :)
Agatha Macbeth: I seem to to have to have totally deflected the topic which was actually open heartedness :p
Korel Laloix smiles
Agatha Macbeth: I'll just shut up
Korel Laloix: That sounds better.
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
Korel Laloix: lol.. not you shutting up...
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): Open mindedness is when even if you think you are right, you know that you can be wrong and are always willing to listen to and hear an opposing or contradictory view.
Open minded people have views but know that their views do not have to be held by everyone. Open minded people also know that their views can be wrong.
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): and I seem to have misplaced my tea...
Korel Laloix: Bad text timing.. grins
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): from urban dictionary
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): can telling someone they aren't openminded enough be a way to shut them down in some contexts?
Zon Kwan: sounds reasonable
Korel Laloix: I don't dissagree with you.  Open minded people in the positive sense of the word never tell other people to be open minded.
San (Santoshima): true
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): :)

Korel Laloix: But the people that tell others to be open minded, use it as a weapon.
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): so perhaps its just the "telling" someone to be open minded that is the negative part?
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): seems so
Agatha Macbeth: Never thought of it from that perspective

Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): What about "tender hearted"  ?
Korel Laloix: Could be... but also, you do need boundaries.
Korel Laloix: I will never entertain the idea that female cricumcision is moral.
Zon Kwan: tender heart but clear mind
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): tender hearted = compassionate, empathetic?
Agatha Macbeth: Me either actually
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal) nods...
Korel Laloix: But someone here tried to convince of that by essentialy telling me to be open minded.
Agatha Macbeth: Good heavens
Zon Kwan: open minded doesnt mean open minded to everything
Korel Laloix: I think being open hearted is a better topic...
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): but you could take yourself mentally to a different time and see the rational that led to such a horrific thing
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): so a larger question to that Kori might be is there a universal morality or could there be?
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): really is there any other way to speak to it in a manner that might help us gt beyond practices like that?
Korel Laloix: That is examining the context, not being open to agreement.  Maybe they are different.
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): I see

Zon Kwan: morals are always relaltive
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): well, that's the question
Korel Laloix: This is one of those chats where I am on the edge of my English.
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): it is serving us well Kori :)
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): think very clear
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): "morality" is a stumbling block word for me
Agatha Macbeth pokes San's feet
Zon Kwan: morality is they way group of people should behave together in certain situations
San (Santoshima): what?
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): challenging to talk about
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): yes
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): lots of baggage
Zon Kwan: sharing common goal
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): especially as we are becoming more global
Zon Kwan: so it depends on group
Zon Kwan: and time
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): agreed, but we are rarely "a group" anywhere.. mostly overlapping groups?
Zon Kwan: yes
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): different cultural filters?
Zon Kwan: thats why its relative
Zon Kwan: and moralities collide
Zon Kwan: changing
Zon Kwan: evolving

Bleu (Bleu Oleander): challenge is to extend our circles of inclusiveness and caring
Korel Laloix: And established moreal norms are compromised and manipulated by the selfish.
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): well most norms serve some and not others
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): what are or could be considered moral universals?
Zon Kwan: depends on ones group
San (Santoshima): non-harming/non-killing
Korel Laloix: After being down here for a while, I have come to the conclustion that there are none.
San (Santoshima): 1st
Zon Kwan: i kill bacteria on every breath
Zon Kwan: i eat i kill
San (Santoshima): but i guess that was not a question needing an answer
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): maybe morals are aspirations?
Korel Laloix: brb
San (Santoshima): the cycle of life is that everything eats everything
Zon Kwan: yes
San (Santoshima): that's a given
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): ok so limiting to humans as one group is even challenging
Zon Kwan: yes
Zon Kwan: it depends on stage of evolution of specific group

Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): there is a political ad running here, about a politician who has changed his mind a lot over the course of his career, and this is seen as a terrible thing... shape-shifting/nuance
Zon Kwan: perhaps he has evolved..smiles
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): :)
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): if he's changing his mind to get votes is probably disengenuous
San (Santoshima): sounds like propaganda
Agatha Macbeth: Surely a politician would never do that? <cough>
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): lol
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): likely what he imagined he would have to deal with and what he had to deal with were different
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): flip flopping common in politics :)
San (Santoshima): dealing with painting and splitting wood ... rain coming ... bye for now ~ thank you
Agatha Macbeth: TC Sanji
Korel Laloix: ciao
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): bye San, happy fixing
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): bye San

Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): I normally don't like to think of ideas like "fate" but then some things cause me to wonder about the way life acts on people and how people react
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): (ack having a lot of trouble with this chat bar - do apologize)
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): fate is a cultural idea mostly
Agatha Macbeth: You and Bill Gates don't get on? :p
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): we have our issues
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): :)
Agatha Macbeth: :D

Korel Laloix: I don't like the extent that I am a product of my environment.
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): little bit of genes; little bit of environment
Zon Kwan: we all are partly
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal) nods
Zon Kwan: and little bit of soul
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): the stuff we are made of
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed Zon
Korel Laloix: Just wish I could escape more sometimes.
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): escape to .... ?
Agatha Macbeth: Escape from or to K?
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): mars?
Zon Kwan: there is no escape
Zon Kwan: just face it
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): escape from what?
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): my son described his day today as "too much earth too little space"
Zon Kwan: lol
Zon Kwan: he has a good sense of balance then
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): and I reminded him that there is inner space he can find, even while seemingly trapped in school
Agatha Macbeth: What was he doing, digging the garden?
Zon Kwan: lol
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): hah... he was desiring to learn the keyboard from a teacher who wants to discuss economics
Agatha Macbeth: Oh
Agatha Macbeth: Just wondered where the earth bit came in
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): but I think there is a lot to the earth/space balance idea
Agatha Macbeth: Looks like K escaped
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): lots of space in AZ
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): sometimes people are not openminded / openhearted because they are grasping for space I think
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): or a sense of spaciousness that would help them feel sufficient
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): confident
Zon Kwan: fixed on ideas
Agatha Macbeth: Or because they feel threatened
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): yes

Zon Kwan: open minded means taking space for oneself to reflect
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): or, like Kori mentioned, hard to see how one can change the world without calling some things out
Agatha Macbeth: WB K
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): wb Kori
Zon Kwan: wb Korel
Korel Laloix: Heya
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): "I made my mind wide, like the universe is wide, to contain paradoxes" Maxine Hong Kingston
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): anyway, strange directions today
Zon Kwan: mind to embrace the universe
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): blame the tea house?
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): hard to followish
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe because of strange surroundings
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): openness to be embraced
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): not as comfy here
Agatha Macbeth: Strange as in unfamiliar that is
Korel Laloix: And stressfull locations.
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): agreed... not the best idea I've had
Zon Kwan: openness is embracing lightly
Agatha Macbeth: We could try the old pavilion perhaps?
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): I'm sure that what you are dealing with presses upon you Kori

Bleu (Bleu Oleander): nice to try though ... probably speaks to openness :)
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): :)) very good point
Korel Laloix: Pressing is a good word... thanks for that.

Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): why isn't this cozy and intimate
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): not home
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): :)
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): no familiar layers
Agatha Macbeth: Perhaps we're used to having space around us
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal) nods...
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): and the curtains don't blow
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): no breath in the room
Zon Kwan: next meeting could be on beach
Agatha Macbeth looks for the curtains
Zon Kwan: sea and open air
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): beach would be so nice! I was trying to find a spot near to the pavilion to see arrivals
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): and to use the unwandered space
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): just stick a sign there
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): yeah...
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): will have to find a beach :)
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): "gone fishin':
Agatha Macbeth: Mugunghwa
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): haha
Korel Laloix: I have several beach landmarks.
Agatha Macbeth: Wol's place is on the beach
Korel Laloix: Probably my fave SL locations.

Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Does Eden still have her home? I twittered with her a little and hoped she'd come in today
Agatha Macbeth: Wish she would
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): not sure
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): I moved out
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): you did?
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): homeless :)
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): can't imagine
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): free
Agatha Macbeth: Cardboard Bleu :p
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): you were so creative there
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): had a good run
Agatha Macbeth: So who's left just Wol and Adams?
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): sigh
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): think so
Agatha Macbeth: Oh think Strom's place is still up too
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): I remember Gaya had this marvelous bed that came from an art show.... a long ribbon
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): I think Storm is leaving too
Agatha Macbeth: Gaya would :)
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Storm has other places, some of which he shares with PaB/Kira
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): so I wonder...
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Ah well :) whatever will be will be....
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): (is that too openminded?)

Agatha Macbeth: I never really felt the need for a home once I had my plot here
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): If I'd had an SL marriage I would have liked to have a house, lol
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): but otherwise I had fun building in the very beginning then got too busy
Agatha Macbeth: Planning on getting married then? :p
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): I used it mostly for making videos
Zon Kwan: congratulations Eliza
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): on? lol Noooooo
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): IF, then. But noooo
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): So much I wanted to learn...videos seem still full of potential
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): yes
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): but I think SL graphics need to jump
Agatha Macbeth: With me that's all they are...potential
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): maybe in the "new world"
Agatha Macbeth: The brave one?
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): waiting for next generation SL
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): I'm hopeful
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): when I reinstalled SL last week they have a special tab for oculus users now
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): already in the works I read
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): so we keep a flame alive

Bleu (Bleu Oleander): heard though that nothing will transfer over
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): is that due to the fundamental quirk?
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): completely different
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): because they can't do a new thing without entirely new code?
Agatha Macbeth: Or Captain Quirk?
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): lol
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): this one will continue
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): I'm ready for fresh I think
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): just like with FB
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): open minded :)
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): YES !

Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): but I guess we'd bring in the same questions, if beginning PaB there?
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): or.... new wine/wineskins?
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): PaB 2.0?
Zon Kwan: wine..yes
Agatha Macbeth: John the Baptist?
Zon Kwan: red wine
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): sounds nice actually...
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): well, thanks for this experiment with me
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): I realize too.... no bell
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): !
Korel Laloix: I could certainly use a glass of wine right now.
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): fun for a change
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): :) and a bubble bath Kori?
Korel Laloix: Oh I so wish.
Agatha Macbeth smiles
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): I really don't like this viewer... it is firestorm but too different . I have to make adjustments
Korel Laloix: Evidently staying at a spa safari place in a couple of days... will see what I can find there.
Agatha Macbeth: LL?

Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): planning to have another guardian meeting Sat too....come if you can
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): oooooooo
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): topics?
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): hope so
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): ha!
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): lol
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): my mind is full of grand intentions
Agatha Macbeth: How about open mindedness? :P
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): :P
Agatha Macbeth ducks
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal) quacks
Zon Kwan: must run, bye all
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): bye Zon
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): me too
Korel Laloix: Ciao
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): thanks for being here everyone
Agatha Macbeth: TC Zonny
Agatha Macbeth: Bye folks, be well
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): byeee
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Oh, seeing the bell
Korel Laloix: Time for bed... take care all.
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): ty Aggers :)
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Nite Kori, be safe
Bleu (Bleu Oleander): c ya
Agatha Macbeth: Be safe K
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal) looks for log
Agatha Macbeth: Is the tea yours Liz?
Korel Laloix: Ciao
Agatha Macbeth: Ah got it
Agatha Macbeth: Do you even have chat turned on on there?
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): thanks for pointing that out....bad manners not to clean up
Agatha Macbeth pokes you
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): I did set the recording in my preferences... just have to find it
Agatha Macbeth: I can do a nc if not
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): there is a button on chat that gives you a log on this... good feature but so far lost on me since I can't find that button again
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): :P
Agatha Macbeth grins
Agatha Macbeth: 'Where did I put that...?'
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): precisely
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Oh, it says here "conversation log"
Agatha Macbeth: Aha
Agatha Macbeth: Getting warmer
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): hm...not a clean copy
Agatha Macbeth: Clean?
Agatha Macbeth: What mean?
Agatha Macbeth: So it's a dirty copy...
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): Oh, wait... maybe in windows I can get it in files
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): lol
Agatha Macbeth: Would it be easier if I just do a nc?
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): maybe, but I wouldn't learn
Eliza (Eliza Madrigal): thank you for offering

(ultimately, I accepted the notecard and decided that when I change the viewer setting I can find it more easily)