2014.10.06 13:00 - Aging with grace

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.


    Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Aph, Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Cat!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Cat
    Aphrodite Macbain: I've decided to see what SL offers in the way of wrinkles
    Bruce Mowbray: (I'm getting notices about creating bridges....
    Aphrodite Macbain: sounds like a worthy cause
    Bruce Mowbray: I do know that there are elderly avatars available.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I was just looking at you Aph :) you age very gracefully
    Bruce Mowbray: I've never seen any insects or litter, though.
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol thanks Cat
    Bruce Mowbray cheers for graceful aging....
    Aphrodite Macbain: facial hair is always a challenge!

    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Eliza
    Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Eliza!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Glad u could make it. :-)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I can stay for a little while at least...happy to be here too, ty!
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)

    Aphrodite Macbain: I have been playing with aging in SL - it really doesn't have too many options.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Being young is what people want to look like
    Eliza Madrigal: I've found that too
    Eliza Madrigal: very few older avies really convey natural feeling
    Aphrodite Macbain: no
    Eliza Madrigal: Pila's appearance comes close
    Bruce Mowbray: Pila, yes, and Vorder Forder.
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes. He's more honest
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe fewer people want to get in touch with their older selves
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: or admit that they are aging
    Bruce Mowbray: May be fewer people have good role models for aging....
    Aphrodite Macbain: They need to offer body animations for those with old bones!
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: lol
    Bruce Mowbray: they do have crutches, walkers, and wheelchairs, you know
    Eliza Madrigal: I definitely think that's part of it... maybe due in part to how separate age categories are treated (role models)
    Bruce Mowbray: Eliza has a wonderful grandfather. . . or at least I have gathered that from things she has written....
    Eliza Madrigal: he's a complex person and we've had our issues over the years
    Aphrodite Macbain: My grandparetns were role models for me too
    Bruce Mowbray: I know -- but you always seem to work it out!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Do we become more complex as we age?
    Eliza Madrigal: he and I have found spaces to meet in
    Eliza Madrigal: :) not sure Aph
    Aphrodite Macbain: topics you feel comfortable in discussing with him?

    Eliza Madrigal: yes, somewhere along the line it became possible to disagree with him

    Aphrodite Macbain: But you had to work at making that space, no?
    Eliza Madrigal: very much so

    Bruce Mowbray: all for sure we do, Aphrodite.... ( well, I should speak for myself. . . sorry.) Some things seem to get simpler; but the more important things I don't know. I haven't figured that out yet. I'll work on it. Thank you for the question.
    Aphrodite Macbain: I think we become more complex - we have so much experience to draw from
    Bruce Mowbray: (agrees with Aph on that . . . then I felt something different, bit deeper....)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I'm not sure complex is the word I would use, not sure what word would work but complex doesn't work for me
    Eliza Madrigal: complexity seems to take energy
    Bruce Mowbray: yes, complexity is a difficult thing...
    Bruce Mowbray: more complex you get the deeper you probe, or at least I do.
    Bruce Mowbray: I don't mean to blame our society, but my generation was raised to feel that use (youth) was better than old age... in virtually every respect.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
    Eliza Madrigal: well phrased, Bruc
    Eliza Madrigal: e
    Eliza Madrigal: ah, well I loved "use"
    Eliza Madrigal: because it IS like that... about how useful one seems to be
    Bruce Mowbray: USE it shall be!
    Aphrodite Macbain: I think of someone as complex when I cant predict how they are going to respond or act.
    Eliza Madrigal: human doings and all that
    Eliza Madrigal: ah
    Bruce Mowbray: one of the things that attracted me powerfully to the men's movement in the early 90s was their respect for elders.
    Aphrodite Macbain: really?
    Bruce Mowbray: I am thinking now of Robert Bly and a few others.
    Bruce Mowbray: yes very much so.
    Bruce Mowbray: James Hillman is also written about this.
    Bruce Mowbray: powerful stuff.
    Bruce Mowbray: maybe women don't have those issues, though....
    Bruce Mowbray: I don't know about that.

    Aphrodite Macbain: I like Japan's way of respecting their elders - as well as First Nations and many other people in eastern countries
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, for me, it's not about respecting folks simply because they happen to be older... or relatives. For me, it's about respecting the values of experience and lives well lived.
    Eliza Madrigal: as I age I learn how fragile one feels as a parent... not really something I could see from the other side
    Eliza Madrigal: and then traditional notions of honor for elders begin to make sense
    Eliza Madrigal: because it is a vulnerable position
    Bruce Mowbray: Indeed it is!
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes - our values change as do our expectations
    Bruce Mowbray: Why do you think the Buddhist prayers mention old age . . . . in the same sentence as sickness and death? " Old age, sickness, and death...." Like that.
    Eliza Madrigal: as we get older we realize that people didn't have all the resources and power we may have thought they had
    Aphrodite Macbain: I like the idea of being recognized as a national treasure rather than a useless old person
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Good question Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: It seems to imply suffering....
    Eliza Madrigal: youth can be a kind of palace like young guatama lived in
    Bruce Mowbray: nods, good point, Eliza.
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Aphrodite Macbain: social circumstances make a diff
     

    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aggers :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Agatha!!
    Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
    Bruce Mowbray: Aggers!
    Agatha Macbeth: Greetings
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Aggers :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yaayy

     

    Aphrodite Macbain: We are talking about attitudes towards aging
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh my
    Aphrodite Macbain: I added a few decades to my appearance but dont feel any different!
    Agatha Macbeth: Where did your hair go Aph?
    Bruce Mowbray: One attitude I really like about aging is the Wabi Sabi approach.
    Aphrodite Macbain: It all fell out
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol
    Agatha Macbeth: Aww
    Aphrodite Macbain: I got older
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: and baggier
    Agatha Macbeth: And wiser?
    Aphrodite Macbain: hmmmm
    Aphrodite Macbain: not sure
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I know nothing
    Bruce Mowbray: You know there is a slogan: "Youth is a gift; old age is an art."
    Eliza Madrigal: earlier today I was thinking that our bodies change to protect us.. to help us ease away from phases of life
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: our bodies change because they are designed to fall apart
    Agatha Macbeth: And they do
    Bruce Mowbray: our bodies, like everything else, change. . . Some would say that entropy is in charge of this.
    Aphrodite Macbain: we just have to accept that in such a youth valuing culture
    Aphrodite Macbain: entropy and gravity!
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: My experience is that the body wears out.... Now, what shall I do with that?
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Aphrodite Macbain: excactly. what shall we do?
    Eliza Madrigal: I like the idea of age as a treasure field, but the problem is the riches get locked away or lost beneath health matters so often
    Bruce Mowbray: shall we ask Hamlet's question, then? To be or not to be?
    Aphrodite Macbain: did anyone see the movie clip I sent out?
    Bruce Mowbray: I watched it carefully, Aph.
    Bruce Mowbray: and that's one of the reasons I don't want to be in New York City! ha ha.
    Aphrodite Macbain: It was a great movie- I saw it at the film fest last night
    Eliza Madrigal: love it
    Bruce Mowbray: The one about old women putting on the duds?
    Aphrodite Macbain: these wonderful women with such a positive attitude to life
    Eliza Madrigal: playing
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: living intensely in the present and not worrying about how much time they have left
    Eliza Madrigal: ...staying alive staying alive..."
    Catrinamonblue Resident: that's the key Aph - attitude
    Eliza Madrigal: I love to see humor in everything, even clothing
    Agatha Macbeth throws her jacket into the crowd
    Aphrodite Macbain catches the jacket
    Bruce Mowbray: well, I thought: That's really fine for them . . . They have the money to dress up like that... and they enjoy it; and they enjoy each other's company.... But somehow it's just not the future I would wish for myself.
    Aphrodite Macbain: No I agree Bruce; it's not for me either; but I agree with the message: carpe diem
    Eliza Madrigal: the lady with the beads has an internet meme and may be the one that said that "if you threw your problems in a pile with everyone else's you'd probably take your own back."
    Agatha Macbeth: Finem respice
    Aphrodite Macbain: she said a few cool things!
    Eliza Madrigal: yeah
    Catrinamonblue Resident: smiles
    Bruce Mowbray: I would definitely take my own problems back! And that has become so clear a message this past week.
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: read about that Bruce... sorry to hear
    Aphrodite Macbain: Are you going to Alaska, Bruce?
    Bruce Mowbray: my dear friend in Alaska, 12 years younger than I, is facing his fourth brain surgery in the next two or three months... and I would not trade that -- no, I would not trade my lot for his. . . ( although if I could I probably would, just to relieve him of that condition.)
    Bruce Mowbray: I don't know yet. We are waiting for the doctors responses to a long list of questions that we put together.
    Aphrodite Macbain: kk
    Aphrodite Macbain: let us know
    Agatha Macbeth: Best of luck getting any answers out of a doctor.They're worse than politicians
    Bruce Mowbray: But part of this is also the aging question: my friend's parents are both in their mid-80s... and both frail, and one is anticipating surgery very soon. and my friend wanted to go down to take care of her and his father.... so now we don't know whether that will be possible.
    Aphrodite Macbain: :/
    Aphrodite Macbain: Difficult choices Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I agree about doctors. . . but the bottom line in this one is that the doctor will give the information, and Steve will have to make the choices...
     

    Bruce Mowbray: Zon-ji!
    Zon Kwan: heya
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Zon :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Zon. We're talking about aging. Do you think SL plays a role in our handling aging? Is it a harmful or useful one?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zon
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Zon

     

    Aphrodite Macbain: I baked them today Aggers
    Bruce Mowbray: [no old cookies here!]
    Agatha Macbeth: Yum
    Agatha Macbeth: TY
    Eliza Madrigal: the central question, how to keep your cookies fresh
    Zon Kwan: Aph..new hair
    Aphrodite Macbain: I store them in that jar - they are always fresh there
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
     

    Bruce Mowbray: All right, I'm going to ask one of those elephant in the room questions:
    Eliza Madrigal: magic jar
    Aphrodite Macbain: My old-age hair Zon
    Eliza Madrigal braces herself
    Zon Kwan: charming
    Aphrodite Macbain: Ask away Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: I have read recently on the Internet of persons who chose a dignified suicide over a lingering deterioration.
    Bruce Mowbray: I'm wondering how folks feel about that sort of thing.
    Aphrodite Macbain: I hadn't noticed that elephant. But interesting question Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, one of them is right there in Vancouver.
    Eliza Madrigal: I find it hard to answer in a generalized way, with every circumstance being different, but generally I believe in the option
    Bruce Mowbray: http://www.vancouversun.com/health/D...068/story.html
    Agatha Macbeth: If a person wants to die I think it's their choice
    Aphrodite Macbain: I know
    Bruce Mowbray: nods.
    Bruce Mowbray: I admire her so much!
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's much discussed on the media here
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I agree that it should be allowed, but there must be stringent rules laid down that only those who have no hope of a cure or any other relief from pain.
    Eliza Madrigal: I believe in death doulas
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)Is that what they are called?
    Bruce Mowbray: Earlier we were talking about First American cultures -- and as I understand it, one of the things that an elderly person in those cultures might do is simply to say " Today is a good day to die" -- and go out and sit on a hill and die.
    Bruce Mowbray: listens for more from Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal: chances of medical institutions coming to that point are slim though. Well, a death doula may be a compassionate hospice worker
    Agatha Macbeth: Does that actually happen Bruce or is it just an urban myth?
    Eliza Madrigal: but someone willing to get very intimately involved
    Bruce Mowbray: Can stringent rules keep you from killing yourself? And what would be the point of that?
    Bruce Mowbray: but maybe that's another discussion, and another day.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Nothing, I think, can keep you from killing yourself if you want to.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: no Bruce but for dr's to help those in dire conditions there must be rules in place
    Bruce Mowbray: It is contrary to the Hippocratic oath to allow an individual to decide the moment of his own ( or her own) death... So, don't count on any help from the medical professions on that one.
    Agatha Macbeth: Biggest problem is, a clever murderer might use it to kill someone and look like suicide
    Agatha Macbeth: Especially if the person was old and rich

    Eliza Madrigal: the thing is, there are times, sometimes long times, that the sun goes behind the clouds... so I feel it can't be that easy either... like, there has to be ways of connection and communication
     

    Bruce Mowbray: except, perhaps, in those states ( only two of them at the moment) that permit it.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: saw a movie serveral years ago about this
    Bruce Mowbray listens.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: there are places in the states that allow it
    Catrinamonblue Resident: with dr help
    Aphrodite Macbain: I am sure that in many circumstancces, people are allowed to die in hospital, or a slightly bigger dose of morphine is administered
    Eliza Madrigal: like I said to my son, we do have responsibility to one another, not just to ourselves. Everyone is loved by someone
    Catrinamonblue Resident: wish I could remember the movie will look later and email it to the group
    Agatha Macbeth: An inspector calls...
    Aphrodite Macbain: I wish that were true Eliza
    Bruce Mowbray: In modern society doctors have replaced shamans....
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe not everyone has someone who takes responsibility for them
    Bruce Mowbray: So, I apologize for steering us away from the main subject.
    Bruce Mowbray: perhaps we could move back into the discussion about aging, and away from discussion about suicide?
    Aphrodite Macbain: and many people would refuse to help a loved one die. There is always the slim possibility of getting better
    Agatha Macbeth looks at the elephant in the pool
    Eliza Madrigal: in a village we'd talk about these things, or not need to because we would see one another age... go through traumas and such together or witness them
    Aphrodite Macbain: Zon - what are your thoughts on aging?
     

    Catrinamonblue Resident: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1715802/
    Catrinamonblue Resident: take a look at that one Bruce


    Zon Kwan: life is too short for killing oneself
    Zon Kwan: except in exceptional circumstances
    Catrinamonblue Resident: depends on what you are living with
    Catrinamonblue Resident: yes agree Zon
    Eliza Madrigal: doesn't everyone's own circumstance feel exceptional to themselves?
    Bruce Mowbray: One of the reasons that my mother moved to Oregon was to be able to take advantage of this law. Fortunately, she did not have to do that. She died three weeks before her 80th birthday of a stroke.
    Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Zon.
    Zon Kwan: why do we come here?
    Zon Kwan: we have lessons to learn
    Agatha Macbeth: For the cookies
    Zon Kwan: when lessons are over
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Zon Kwan: we die


    Aphrodite Macbain: Moving away from death to life .......I get a sense there are a lot of retired and older people in SL who get to be their true selves without being judged by appearance
    Eliza Madrigal: I've met some for sure Aph
    Eliza Madrigal: in the best of times SL really can free us from those prejudices
    Aphrodite Macbain: they wear a youth mask...
    Catrinamonblue Resident: we all wear masks :p
    Catrinamonblue Resident: young or old
    Aphrodite Macbain: exactly we wear a mask we hope is acceptable to society
    Zon Kwan: body is a mask
    Catrinamonblue Resident: yup
    Eliza Madrigal: I think if finding what we love and ways to do that keeps us feeling alive
    Eliza Madrigal: so if age presents an obstacle to friendships and wonderful play
    Eliza Madrigal: then SL is a miracle
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
     

    Aphrodite Macbain: think about your favourite age....
     

    Zon Kwan: one should use the mask that suits the play
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: to fit in Zon?
    Eliza Madrigal: I used to pretend to be older when I first came online
    Aphrodite Macbain: why?
    Eliza Madrigal: wanted to be taken seriously
    Eliza Madrigal: heard
    Zon Kwan: smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: test myself
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah- the other side of the coin
    Aphrodite Macbain: what was your experience doing that Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: it was wonderful
    Aphrodite Macbain: how?
    Eliza Madrigal: made some incredible friendships with intelligent people who may not have seen me as someone who could relate with them
    Eliza Madrigal: so it held a door open for a little while, til I proved myself, in a way
    Aphrodite Macbain: so you were addressing people's prejudices against young people?
    Eliza Madrigal: I guess... but it wasn't a mission or anything
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's interesting how we all form judgments about age
    Bruce Mowbray: nods, agrees, listens.
    Eliza Madrigal: nods
    Aphrodite Macbain: stereotypes abound
    Aphrodite Macbain: "old people are out of date"

    Agatha Macbeth: Zenny :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Zen :))
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Zen :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Zen-ji!

    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Zen- I hope you can provide some Zen wisdom about aging!
    Eliza Madrigal: dating as an older person is interesting :)
    Zon
    Kwan: hi Zen bro

    Zen Arado: Hi all

    Agatha Macbeth: Mr DJ is in da house
     

    Eliza Madrigal: out of date? lol
    Zon Kwan: why is old?
    Aphrodite Macbain: how Eliza?
    Bruce Mowbray: Now, here's a dude whose opinions about aging I feel great respect for!
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Zon Kwan: bodies get old
    Aphrodite Macbain: Join us in the circle Zen pls
    Bruce Mowbray: HI!
    Zon Kwan: average mental age of people is about 12-13
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh? Where did u get those figures Zon?
    Catrinamonblue Resident: lol
    Zon Kwan: i can see things...
    Zon Kwan: lol
    Aphrodite Macbain: hmmm
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Bruce Mowbray: No need to go for the lowest common denominator, though. Why not aim for the stars?
    Zon Kwan: why not
    Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder how we judge the mental age of a person
    Aphrodite Macbain: Some 12 year olds are brilliant
    Eliza Madrigal: when he was about 12 my son said that he was a grown up and I was a little kid
    Bruce Mowbray: what an amazing insight.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: he meant it too, lolllol
    Zon Kwan: smiles
    Agatha Macbeth: Some advice: stay that way
    Bruce Mowbray: the child is the father of the man ( or in this case, the woman).
    Zen Arado: it's humans putting measurements on life though?
    Eliza Madrigal: :) regress, Aggers?
    Agatha Macbeth pokes Liz
    Eliza Madrigal: for sure Zen
    Bruce Mowbray: perhaps 12-year-olds want to grow up too much... though, I know I sure did when I was 12.
     

    Aphrodite Macbain: I watched a movie recently about the sex habits of the elderly - in the Netherlands. It was an eye opener
    Zen Arado: and expecting certain things to happen at certain ages
    Bruce Mowbray: I'll bet it was, Aph!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Sex continues into the 80s
    Zon Kwan: yes the dutch...
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I certainly hope so!! :)
    Bruce Mowbray: (My mother apparently didn't know that....)
    Eliza Madrigal nods... but it isn't enough not to buy into it oneself because realistically one relates with others filters
    Agatha Macbeth: Are you moving to Holland then Aph?
    Aphrodite Macbain: not just the dutch Zen :-)
    Zen Arado: probably best not to think of how old you are
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh? what's the name of the film? lol
    Agatha Macbeth: Which film?
    Bruce Mowbray listens very very carefully . . . the film about the old sexy Dutch!
    Zen Arado: or try to fit others preconceptions of how you should be at your age
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'll look it up. I forget. (aging brain)
    Zen Arado: so limiting:)
    Bruce Mowbray relates closely and feels empathy with Aph on that one.
    Eliza Madrigal: I tried going out dancing and the people who wanted to dance with me were really young, like my daughter... I didn't like it at all
    Aphrodite Macbain: Of course, but we do it anyway Zen
    Agatha Macbeth grins
    Zen Arado: a shame how others stereotype us
    Aphrodite Macbain: on aging brain or sex Bruce?
    Zen Arado: we live in an ageist society
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Bruce Mowbray: aging brain.
    Zen Arado: no respect for the elderly
    Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder whether it is just the western world that does
    Eliza Madrigal: I think so
    Zen Arado: it is to an extent I think
    Bruce Mowbray: My mother folk danced until the very end. . . always going to some folk dance Festival in Oregon.. How wonderful that was!
    Eliza Madrigal: we sort of kill things with our emphasis on appearances
    Zen Arado: some societies revere the wisdom of age
    Eliza Madrigal: sounds so nice, Bruce
    Aphrodite Macbain: good for her Bruce - she is like the women from New York
    Bruce Mowbray: Just imagine folk dancing with a 79-year-old woman. . . Would that not be absolutely wonderful?!!!
    Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps, but I think my mother embodied it rather than wearing it.
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- first nations and many eastern cultures Zen
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Zen Arado: but it depends on the person not the age
    Agatha Macbeth: 'Get off my foot sonny'
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Alas, I must go now. Thank you so much, Aph, for bringing us these questions.
    Agatha Macbeth: Aww, bye Brucie
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Bruce :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Scrape well
    Zon Kwan: waves
    Eliza Madrigal: bye Bruce :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Bruce.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Let us know about Alaska
    Zen Arado: bye Bruce

    Aphrodite Macbain: Well... I realize I have to accept that I cant do the things I used to do but I will replace them with other things...
    Catrinamonblue Resident: good idea Aph :)
    Eliza Madrigal: acceptance=grace?
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Zon
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Amazing acceptance
    Aphrodite Macbain: smiles
    Eliza Madrigal smiles widely at Aggers
    Zen Arado: accept what?
    Aphrodite Macbain: It is less hard on the nerves
    Agatha Macbeth examines Liz's teeth
    Aphrodite Macbain: aging Zen
    Zen Arado: well I don't
    Zen Arado: accept other's ideas of it
    Aphrodite Macbain: no? why not? It's inevitable
    Eliza Madrigal accepts that after going to yoga it takes 3 days to recover
    Zen Arado: why even think of it?
    Catrinamonblue Resident: exactly Zen :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I bump into it constantly Zen seeing how I have changed
    Zen Arado: your body tells you what you can do or not
    Aphrodite Macbain: reminders
    Zen Arado: similarly mentally
    Eliza Madrigal: that's the hardest part to accept...mentally...
    Eliza Madrigal: when young, one can push through more easily, stay up late if need be to study, etc
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- I imagine it would be hard to have Alzheimer's
    Zen Arado: you judge from an assessment of your present abilities not what you 'should' be able to do at your age
    Aphrodite Macbain: some people my age are running marathons
    Zen Arado: that applies to tryig to do silly things to prove you aren't old
    Eliza Madrigal: yeah
    Aphrodite Macbain: like dressing funny?
    Zen Arado: I learned that early from being disabaled
    Eliza Madrigal: is it silly for me to listen to korean rap music? lol
    Eliza Madrigal: am I "too old" ?
    Agatha Macbeth: Ask a Korean :p
    Zen Arado: or compose Trance music?
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Zen Arado: which I do
    Eliza Madrigal: well that's mellow...
    Catrinamonblue Resident: it really doesn't matter what "others" think, it's are you happy doing it? if yes then do it!!!!!!!!
    Zen Arado: did a Techno track last week
    Eliza Madrigal: but yes it is out of the box of expectations
    Zen Arado: exactly Cat
    Eliza Madrigal: nice, Cat :))
    Aphrodite Macbain: not if u enjoy it
    Catrinamonblue Resident: it's how I live :)
    Zen Arado: having an accurate of ourselves not societal image ones
    Aphrodite Macbain: how Cat?
    Zen Arado: opinion
    Catrinamonblue Resident: oh Aph if I could bottle it and give it to you I would, I'm not sure how it just is
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I just am me in all my infinite varieties :)
    Zen Arado: my grandfather at my age sat in front of the fire reading the newspapers and radio
    Aphrodite Macbain: as are we all Cat
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: there is a generational learning curve, nods... maybe we have more options
    Zen Arado: he seemed so old yet he was younger than I am now
    Aphrodite Macbain: how did he "seem" old?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes! that's how my mom seems to me
    Zen Arado: more learning opportunities keeps us younger nowadays
    Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
    Zen Arado: maybe that is the secret
    Aphrodite Macbain: young people sit in front of the fire reading newspapers
    Eliza Madrigal: access to what we love
    Zen Arado: :)
    Zen Arado: but that's all he did
    Aphrodite Macbain: so do some teenagers!
    Zen Arado: or walk around to the park
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I love walking :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I linger on benches a lot
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Careful...
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks Aph :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- you never know...
    Eliza Madrigal: careful?
    Agatha Macbeth: You can meet odd people on benches
    Zen Arado: hard to describe but he did 'old people things'
    Eliza Madrigal: like me
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh Zen
    Zen Arado: it's more a mindset maybe
    Eliza Madrigal: my mom is older than my grandfather
    Eliza Madrigal: but not too late to regress a bit

    Aphrodite Macbain: I will hobble out of here now and wish you good day. I may not be able to be here next week as I am travelling
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Aph
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, nice Aph
    Zen Arado: kk byee Aph
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Aphie, hobble well
    Eliza Madrigal: have a wonderful trip if so
    Aphrodite Macbain: will see my perky 91 yr old mother
    Aphrodite Macbain: etc
    Eliza Madrigal: yay
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: bye all

     

    Zen Arado: 91 is the new 61
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I should go too... have tasks and tired eyes
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I should be off to get some supper together for the boys. :)
    Agatha Macbeth: TC Liz
    Zen Arado: yeh I have a lot for my 71 year old body to do
    Zen Arado: byee all
    Eliza Madrigal: nice to see you all
    Zen Arado: :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye guys :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hugs
    Agatha Macbeth: Byee
    Agatha Macbeth: You don't need the log today :p
    Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
    Eliza Madrigal: no... but I'm still fidgeting with settings
    Eliza Madrigal: did you hear when I took a photo?
    Agatha Macbeth: Another fidgety person
    Agatha Macbeth: Nope
    Agatha Macbeth: Do have quiet snapshots ticked?
    Eliza Madrigal grins...yup, a fidgeter and tinkerer
    Eliza Madrigal: I must, if you didn't hear it
    Eliza Madrigal: i didn't seem to need to reset it
    Agatha Macbeth: In Advanced I think
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes
    Agatha Macbeth: And hi-res too
    Eliza Madrigal: so, feeling more comfortable with this computer but they keyboard isn't quite good
    Agatha Macbeth: gangnam
    Eliza Madrigal: hah!!
    Agatha Macbeth: Yay still have it
    Eliza Madrigal: do ours work together? yours seems more fluid than mine
    Eliza Madrigal: ♬ 오빤~~강남 스~타일~~ ♪♪
    Agatha Macbeth: gangnam
    Eliza Madrigal: -«☁ »- 옵.옵.옵.옵. -«☁ »- 
    Eliza Madrigal: ♬ 헤~이 Sexy Lady~~ ♪♪
    Eliza Madrigal: yours is different.... better dance
    Agatha Macbeth: gangnam
    Eliza Madrigal: do you still dance on Saturdays?
    Agatha Macbeth: Um not for ages
    Eliza Madrigal: aw
     

    Agatha Macbeth: I missed the GM cos I didn't know it was on
    Eliza Madrigal: that time is working well...so will keep it up
    Eliza Madrigal: not this coming weekend though
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Eliza Madrigal: OK really poofing now
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe <3
    Agatha Macbeth: Well we have little to discuss these days it seems
    Agatha Macbeth: Anyways
    Agatha Macbeth: TC
    Eliza Madrigal: Bleu brought up a potential art project
    Eliza Madrigal: so maybe follow up next time
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh great
    Eliza Madrigal: bfn
    Agatha Macbeth: ♥

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     


    Aphrodite Macbain: I think we become more complex - we have so much experience to draw from
    Aphrodite Macbain: But you had to work at making that space, no?
    Eliza Madrigal: very much so
    Bruce Mowbray: (agrees with Aph on that . . . then I felt something different, bit deeper....)
    Aphrodite Macbain: What feelings do each of you have about aging?
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I'm not sure complex is the word I would use, not sure what word would work but complex doesn't work for me
    Eliza Madrigal: complexity seems to take energy
    Bruce Mowbray: yes, complexity is a difficult thing...
    Bruce Mowbray: more complex you get the deeper you probe, or at least I do.
    Bruce Mowbray: I don't mean to blame our society, but my generation was raised to feel that use was better than old age... in virtually every respect.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
    Eliza Madrigal: well phrased, Bruc
    Bruce Mowbray: youth*
    Eliza Madrigal: e
    Bruce Mowbray: (not use*)
    Eliza Madrigal: ah, well I loved "use"
    Eliza Madrigal: because it IS like that... about how useful one seems to be
    Bruce Mowbray: USE it shall be!
    Aphrodite Macbain: I think of someone as complex when I cant predict how they are going to respond or act.
    Eliza Madrigal: human doings and all that
    Eliza Madrigal: ah
    Bruce Mowbray: one of the things that attracted me powerfully to the men's movement in the early 90s was their respect for elders.
    Aphrodite Macbain: really?
    Bruce Mowbray: I am thinking now of Robert Bly and a few others.
    Bruce Mowbray: yes very much so.
    Bruce Mowbray: James Hillman is also written about this.
    Bruce Mowbray: powerful stuff.
    Bruce Mowbray: maybe women don't have those issues, though....
    Bruce Mowbray: I don't know about that.
    --BELL--
    Aphrodite Macbain: I like Japan's way of respecting their elders - as well as First Nations and many other eastern countries
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, for me, it's not about respecting folks simply because they happen to be older... or relatives. For me, it's about respecting the values of experience and lives well lived.
    Eliza Madrigal: as I age I learn how fragile one feels as a parent... not really something I could see from the other side
    Eliza Madrigal: and then traditional notions of honor for elders begin to make sense
    Eliza Madrigal: because it is a vulnerable position
    Bruce Mowbray: Indeed it is!
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes-our values change as do our expectations
    Bruce Mowbray: Why do you think the Buddhist prayers mention old age . . . . in the same sentence as sickness and death? " Old age, sickness, and death...." Like that.
    Eliza Madrigal: as we get older we realize taht people didn't have all the resources and power we may have thought they had
    Aphrodite Macbain: I like the idea of being recognized as a national treasure rather than a useless old person
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Good question Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: It seems to imply suffering....
    Eliza Madrigal: youth can be a kind of palace like young guatama lived in
    Bruce Mowbray: nods, good point, Eliza.
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Aphrodite Macbain: social circumstances make a difff
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aggers :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Agatha!!
    Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
    Bruce Mowbray: Aggers!
    Agatha Macbeth: Greetings
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Aggers :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yaayy
    Aphrodite Macbain: We are talking about attitudes towards aging
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh my
    Aphrodite Macbain: I added a few decades to my appearance but dont feel any different!
    Agatha Macbeth: Where did your hair go Aph?
    Bruce Mowbray: One attitude I really like about aging is the Wabi Sabi approach.
    Aphrodite Macbain: It all fell out
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol
    Agatha Macbeth: Aww
    Aphrodite Macbain: I got older
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: and baggier
    Agatha Macbeth: And wiser?
    Aphrodite Macbain: hmmmm
    Aphrodite Macbain: not sure
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I know nothing
    Aphrodite Macbain: watches Aggers transform herself
    Bruce Mowbray: You know there is a slogan: " Uses a gift; old age is an art."
    Eliza Madrigal: earlier today I was thinking that our bodies change to protect us.. to help us ease away from phases of life
    Bruce Mowbray: YOUTH is a gift....
    Aphrodite Macbain: u look the same Aggers
    Agatha Macbeth: Fiddling
    Agatha Macbeth is a fiddly person
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: our bodies change because they are designed to fall apart
    Agatha Macbeth: And they do
    Bruce Mowbray: our bodies, like everything else, change. . . Someone say that entropy is in charge of this.
    Aphrodite Macbain: we just have to accept that in such a youth valuing culture
    Bruce Mowbray: some would say that*
    Aphrodite Macbain: entropy and gravity!
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: My experience is that the body wears out.... Now, what shall I do with that?
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Aphrodite Macbain: excactly. what shall we do?
    Eliza Madrigal: I like the idea of age as a treasure field, but the problem is the riches get locked away or lost beneath health matters so often
    Bruce Mowbray: shall we ask Hamlet's question, then? To be or not to be?
    Aphrodite Macbain: did anyone see the movie clip I sent out?
    Bruce Mowbray: I watched it carefully, Aph.
    Bruce Mowbray: and that's one of the reasons I don't want to be in New York City! ha ha.
    Aphrodite Macbain: It was a great movie- I saw itr at the film fest last night
    Eliza Madrigal: love it
    Bruce Mowbray: The one about old women putting on the duds?
    Aphrodite Macbain: these wonderful women with such a positive attitude to life
    Eliza Madrigal: playing
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: living intensely in the present
    Eliza Madrigal: ...staying alive staying alive..."
    Catrinamonblue Resident: that's the key Aph - attitude
    Eliza Madrigal: I love to see humor in everything, even clothing
    Agatha Macbeth throws her jacket into the crowd
    Aphrodite Macbain: and not worrying about how much time they have left
    Aphrodite Macbain catches the jacket
    Bruce Mowbray: well, I thought: That's really fine for them . . . They have the money to dress up like that... and they enjoy it; and they enjoy each other's company.... But somehow it's just not the future I would wish for myself.
    Aphrodite Macbain: No I agree Bruce
    Aphrodite Macbain: it's not for me either; but I agree with the message: carpe diem
    Eliza Madrigal: the lady with the beads has an internet meme and may be the one that said that "if you threw your problems in a pile with everyone else's you'd probably take your own back."
    Agatha Macbeth: Finem respice
    Aphrodite Macbain: she said a few cool things!
    Eliza Madrigal: yeah
    Catrinamonblue Resident: smiles
    Bruce Mowbray: I would definitely take my own problems back! And that has become so clear a message this past week.
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: read about that Bruce... sorry to hear
    Aphrodite Macbain: Are you going to Alaska Bruce?
    Bruce Mowbray: my dear friend in Alaska, 12 years younger than I, is facing his fourth brain surgery in the next two or three months... and I would not trade that -- no, I would not trade my lot for his. . . ( although if I could I probably would, just to relieve him of that condition.)
    Bruce Mowbray: I don't know yet. We are waiting for the doctors responses to a long list of questions that we put together.
    Aphrodite Macbain: kk
    Aphrodite Macbain: let us know
    Agatha Macbeth: Best of luck getting any answers out of a doctor
    Bruce Mowbray: But part of this is also the aging question: my friends parents are both in their mid-80s... and both frail, and one is anticipating surgery very soon. and my friend wanted to go down to take care of her and his father.... so now we don't know whether that will be possible.
    Aphrodite Macbain: :/
    Agatha Macbeth: They're worse than politicians
    Aphrodite Macbain: Difficult choices Bruce
    --BELL--
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I agree about doctors. . . but the bottom line in this one is that the doctor will give the information, and Steve will have to make the choices...
    Bruce Mowbray: Zon-ji!
    Zon Kwan: heya
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Zon :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Zon. We're talking about aging. Do you think SL plays a role in our handling aging? Is it a harmful or useful one?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zon
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Zon
    Aphrodite Macbain: I baked them today Aggers
    Bruce Mowbray: [no old cookies here!]
    Agatha Macbeth: Yum
    Agatha Macbeth: TY
    Eliza Madrigal: the central question, how to keep your cookies fresh
    Zon Kwan: Aph..new hair
    Aphrodite Macbain: I store them in that jar - they are always fresh there
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: All right, I'm going to ask one of those elephant in the room questions:
    Eliza Madrigal: magic jar
    Aphrodite Macbain: My old age hair Zon
    Eliza Madrigal braces herself
    Zon Kwan: charming
    Aphrodite Macbain: Ask away Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: I have read recently on the Internet of persons who chose a dignified suicide over a lingering deterioration.
    Bruce Mowbray: I'm wondering how folks feel about that sort of thing.
    Aphrodite Macbain: I hadn't noticed that elephant. But interesting question Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, one of them is right there in Vancouver.
    Eliza Madrigal: I find it hard to answer in a generalized way, with every circumstance being different, but generally I believe in the option
    Bruce Mowbray: http://www.vancouversun.com/health/D...068/story.html
    Agatha Macbeth: If a person wants to die I think it's their choice
    Aphrodite Macbain: I know
    Bruce Mowbray: nods.
    Bruce Mowbray: I admire her so much!
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's much discussed on the media
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I agree that it should be allowed, but there must be stringent rules laid down that only those who have no hope of a cure or any other relief from pain.
    Eliza Madrigal: I believe in death doulas
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Bruce Mowbray: Earlier we were talking about First American cultures -- and as I understand it, one of the things that an elderly person in those cultures might do is simply to say " Today is a good day to die" -- and go out and sit on a hill and die.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Isthat what they are called?
    Bruce Mowbray: listens for more from Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal: chances of medical institutions coming to that point are slim though. Well, a death doula may be a compassionate hospice worker
    Agatha Macbeth: Does that actually happen Bruce or is it just an urban myth?
    Eliza Madrigal: but someone willing to get very intimately involved
    Bruce Mowbray: Can stringent rules keep you from killing yourself? And what would be the point of that?
    Bruce Mowbray: but maybe that's another discussion, and another day.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Nothing, I think can keep you from killing yourself if you want to.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: no Bruce but for dr's to help those in dire conditions there must be rules in place
    Bruce Mowbray: It is contrary to the Hippocratic oath to allow an individual to decide the moment of his own ( or her own) death... So, don't count on any help from the medical professions on that one.
    Agatha Macbeth: Biggest problem is, a clever murderer might use it to kill someone and look like suicide
    Eliza Madrigal: the thing is, there are times, sometimes long times, that the sun goes behind the clouds... so I feel it can't be that easy either... like, there has to be ways of connection and communication
    Bruce Mowbray: except, perhaps, in those states ( only two of them at the moment) that permitted.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: saw a movie serveral years ago about this
    Bruce Mowbray: permit it*
    Agatha Macbeth: Especially if the person was old and rich
    Bruce Mowbray listens.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: there are places in the states that allow it
    Catrinamonblue Resident: with dr help
    Aphrodite Macbain: I am sure that in many circumstancces, people are allowed to die, or a slightly bigger dose of morphine is administered
    Eliza Madrigal: like I said to my son, we do have responsibility to one another, not just to ourselves. Everyone is loved by someone
    Catrinamonblue Resident: wish I could remember the movie will look later and email it to the group
    Agatha Macbeth: An inspector calls...
    Aphrodite Macbain: I wish that were true Eliza
    Bruce Mowbray: In modern society doctors have replaced shamans....
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe not everyone has someone who takes responsibility for them
    Bruce Mowbray: So, I apologize for steering us away from the main subject.
    Bruce Mowbray: perhaps we could move back into the discussion about aging, and away from discussion about suicide?
    Aphrodite Macbain: and many people would refuse to help a aloved one die. There is always the slim possibility of getting better
    Agatha Macbeth looks at the elephant in the pool
    Eliza Madrigal: in a village we'd talk about these things, or not need to because we would see one another age... go through traumas and such together or witness them
    Aphrodite Macbain: Zon - what are your thoughts on aging?
    Catrinamonblue Resident: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1715802/
    Catrinamonblue Resident: take a look at that one Bruce
    Zon Kwan: life is too short for killing oneself
    Zon Kwan: except in exceptional circumstances
    Catrinamonblue Resident: depends on what you are living with
    Catrinamonblue Resident: yes agree Zon
    Eliza Madrigal: doesn't everyone's own circumstance feel exceptional to themselves?
    Bruce Mowbray: One of the reasons that my mother moved to Oregon was to be able to take advantage of this law. Fortunately, she did not have to do that. She died three weeks before her 80th birthday of a stroke.
    Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Zon.
    Zon Kwan: why do we come here?
    Zon Kwan: we have lessons to learn
    Agatha Macbeth: For the cookies
    Zon Kwan: when lessons are over
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Zon Kwan: we die
    Aphrodite Macbain: Moving away from death to life .......I get a sense there are a lot of retired and older people in SL who get to be their true selves without being judged by appearance
    Eliza Madrigal: I've met some for sure Aph
    Eliza Madrigal: in the best of times SL really can free us from those prejudices
    Aphrodite Macbain: they wear a youth mask...
    Catrinamonblue Resident: we all wear masks :p
    Catrinamonblue Resident: young or old
    Aphrodite Macbain: exactly
    Zon Kwan: body is a mask
    Catrinamonblue Resident: yup
    Eliza Madrigal: I think if finding what we love and ways to do that keeps us feeling alive
    Aphrodite Macbain: we wear a mask we hope is acceptable to society
    Eliza Madrigal: so if age presents an obstacle to friendships and wonderful play
    --BELL--
    Eliza Madrigal: then SL is a miracle
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: think about your favourite age....
    Zon Kwan: one should use the mask that suits the play
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: to fit in Zon?
    Eliza Madrigal: I used to pretend to be older when I first came online
    Aphrodite Macbain: why?
    Eliza Madrigal: wanted to be taken seriously
    Eliza Madrigal: heard
    Zon Kwan: smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: test myself
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah- the other side of the coin
    Aphrodite Macbain: what was your experience doing that Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: it was wonderful
    Aphrodite Macbain: how?
    Eliza Madrigal: made some incredible friendships with intelligent people who may not have seen me as someone who could relate with them
    Eliza Madrigal: so it held a door open for a little while, til I proved myself, in a way
    Aphrodite Macbain: so you were addressing people's prejudices against young people?
    Eliza Madrigal: I guess... but it wasn't a mission or anything
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's interesting how we all form judgments about age
    Bruce Mowbray: nods, agrees, listens.
    Eliza Madrigal: nods
    Aphrodite Macbain: stereotypes abound
    Agatha Macbeth: Zenny :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Zen :))
    Aphrodite Macbain: old people are out of date
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Zen :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Zen-ji!
    Eliza Madrigal: out of date? lol
    Agatha Macbeth: Mr DJ is in da house
    Zon Kwan: why is old?
    Zen Arado: 's current display-name is "Zen".
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Zen- I hope you can provide some Zen wisdom about aging!
    Eliza Madrigal: dating as an older person is interesting :)
    Zon Kwan: hi Zen bro
    Aphrodite Macbain: how Eliza?
    Bruce Mowbray: Now, here's a dude whose opinions about aging I feel great respect for!
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Zon Kwan: bodies get old
    Zen Arado: Hi all
    Aphrodite Macbain: Join us in the circle Zen
    Bruce Mowbray: HI!
    Aphrodite Macbain: pls
    Zon Kwan: average mental age of people is about 12-13
    Aphrodite Macbain: tx!
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh? Where did u get those figures Zon?
    Catrinamonblue Resident: lol
    Zon Kwan: i can see things...
    Zon Kwan: lol
    Aphrodite Macbain: hmmm
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Bruce Mowbray: No need to go for the lowest common denominator, though. Why not aim for the stars?
    Zon Kwan: why not
    Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder how we judge the mental a ge of a person
    Aphrodite Macbain: Some 12 year olds are brilliant
    Eliza Madrigal: when he was about 12 my son said that he was a grown up and I was a little kid
    Bruce Mowbray: what an amazing insight.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: he meant it too, lolllol
    Zon Kwan: smiles
    Agatha Macbeth: Some advice: stay that way
    Bruce Mowbray: the child is the father of the man ( or in this case, the woman).
    Zen Arado: it's humans putting measurements on life though?
    Eliza Madrigal: :) regress, Aggers?
    Agatha Macbeth pokes Liz
    Eliza Madrigal: for sure Zen
    Bruce Mowbray: perhaps 12-year-olds want to grow up too much... though, I know I sure did when I was 12.
    Aphrodite Macbain: I watched a movie recently about the sex habits of the elderly - in the Netherlands. It was an eye opener
    Zen Arado: and expecting certain things to happen at certain ages
    Bruce Mowbray: I'll bet it was, Aph!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Sex continues into the 80s
    Zon Kwan: yes the dutch...
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I certainly hope so!! :)
    Bruce Mowbray: (My mother apparently didn't know that....)
    Eliza Madrigal nods... but it isn't enough not to buy into it oneself because realistically one relates with others filters
    Agatha Macbeth: Are you moving to Holland then Aph?
    Aphrodite Macbain: not just the dutch Zen :-)
    Zen Arado: probably best not to think of how old you are
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh? what's the name of the film? lol
    Agatha Macbeth: Which film?
    Bruce Mowbray this is very very carefully . . . the film about the old sexy Dutch!
    Zen Arado: or try to fit others preconceptions of how you should be at your age
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'll look it up. I forget. (aging brain)
    Zen Arado: so limiting:)
    Bruce Mowbray relates closely and feels empathy with Aph on that one.
    Eliza Madrigal: I tried going out dancing and the people who wanted to dance with me were really young, like my daughter... I didn't like it at all
    Aphrodite Macbain: Of course, but we do it anyway Zen
    Agatha Macbeth grins
    Zen Arado: a shame how other stereotype us
    Aphrodite Macbain: aging brain or sex Bruce?
    Zen Arado: we live in an ageist society
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Bruce Mowbray: aging brain.
    Zen Arado: no respect for the elderly
    Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder whether it is just the western world that does
    Eliza Madrigal: I think so
    Zen Arado: it is to an extent I think
    Bruce Mowbray: My mother folk danced until the very end. . . always going to some folk dance Festival in Oregon.. How wonderful that was!
    Eliza Madrigal: we sort of kill things with our emphasis on appearances
    Zen Arado: some societies rever the wisdom of age
    Eliza Madrigal: sounds so nice, Bruce
    Zen Arado: revere
    Aphrodite Macbain: good for her- she is like the women from New York
    Bruce Mowbray: Just imagine folk dancing with a 79-year-old woman. . . Would that not be absolutely wonderful?!!!
    Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps, but I think my mother embodied it rather than wearing it.
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- first nations and many eastern cultures Zen
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Zen Arado: but it depends on the person not the age
    Agatha Macbeth: 'Get off my foot sonny'
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Alas, I must go now. Thank you so much, Aph, for bringing us these questions.
    --BELL--
    Agatha Macbeth: Aww, bye Brucie
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Bruce :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Scrape well
    Aphrodite Macbain: Well... I realize I have to accept that I cant do the things I used to do but I will replace them with other things...
    Zon Kwan: waves
    Eliza Madrigal: bye Bruce :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Bruce.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: good idea Aph :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Let us know about Alaska
    Zen Arado: bye Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: acceptance=grace?
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Zon
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Amazing acceptance
    Aphrodite Macbain: smiles
    Eliza Madrigal smiles widely at Aggers
    Zen Arado: accept what?
    Aphrodite Macbain: It is less hard on the nerves
    Agatha Macbeth examines Liz's teeth
    Aphrodite Macbain: aging Zen
    Zen Arado: well I don't
    Zen Arado: accept other's ideas of it
    Aphrodite Macbain: no? why not? It's inevitable
    Eliza Madrigal accepts that after going to yoga it takes 3 days to recover
    Aphrodite Macbain: oops we talked thru the bell
    Zen Arado: why even think of it?
    Catrinamonblue Resident: exactly Zen :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I bump into it constantly Zen
    Zen Arado: your body tells you what you can do or not
    Aphrodite Macbain: reminders
    Zen Arado: similarly mentally
    Aphrodite Macbain: of how we have changed
    Eliza Madrigal: that's the hardest part to accept...mentally...
    Eliza Madrigal: when young one can push through more easily, stay up late if need be to study, etc
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- I imagine it would be hard to have Alzheimer's
    Zen Arado: you judge from an assessment of your present abilities not what you 'should' be able to do at your age
    Aphrodite Macbain: some people my age are running marathons
    Zen Arado: that applies to tryig to do silly things to prove you aren't old
    Eliza Madrigal: yeah
    Aphrodite Macbain: like dressing funny?
    Zen Arado: I learned that early from being disabaled
    Eliza Madrigal: is it silly for me to listen to korean rap music? lol
    Eliza Madrigal: am I "too old" ?
    Agatha Macbeth: Ask a Korean :p
    Zen Arado: or compose Trance music?
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Zen Arado: which I do
    Eliza Madrigal: well that's mellow...
    Catrinamonblue Resident: it really doesn't matter what "others" think, it's are you happy doing it? if yes then do it!!!!!!!!
    Zen Arado: did a Techno track last week
    Eliza Madrigal: but yes it is out of the box of expectations
    Zen Arado: exactly Cat
    Eliza Madrigal: nice, Cat :))
    Aphrodite Macbain: not if u enjoy it
    Catrinamonblue Resident: it's how I live :)
    Zen Arado: having an accurate of ourselves not societal image ones
    Aphrodite Macbain: how Cat?
    Zen Arado: opinion
    Catrinamonblue Resident: oh Aph if I could bottle it and give it to you I woukd, I'm not sure how it just is
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I just am me in all my infinite varieties :)
    Zen Arado: my grandfather at my age sat in front of the fire reading the newspapers and radio
    Aphrodite Macbain: as are we all Cat
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: there is a generational learning curve, nods... maybe we have more options
    Zen Arado: he seemed so old yet he was younger than I am now
    Aphrodite Macbain: how did he "seem" old?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes! that's how my mom seems to me
    Zen Arado: more learning opportunities keeps us younger nowadays
    Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
    Zen Arado: maybe that is the secret
    Aphrodite Macbain: young people sit in front of the fire reading newspapers
    Eliza Madrigal: access to what we love
    Zen Arado: :)
    Zen Arado: but that's all he did
    Aphrodite Macbain: so do some teenagers!
    Zen Arado: or walk around to the park
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I love walking :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I linger on benches a lot
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Careful...
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks Aph :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- you never know...
    Eliza Madrigal: careful?
    Agatha Macbeth: You can meet odd people on benches
    Zen Arado: hard to describe but he did 'old people things'
    Eliza Madrigal: like me
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh Zen
    Zen Arado: it's more a mindset maybe
    Eliza Madrigal: my mom is older than my grandfather
    Aphrodite Macbain: I will hobble out of here now and wish you goodday. I may not be able to be here next week as I am travelling
    Eliza Madrigal: but not too late to regress a bit
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Aph
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, nice Aph
    Zen Arado: kk byee Aph
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Aphie, hobble well
    Eliza Madrigal: have a wonderful trip if so
    Aphrodite Macbain: will see my perky 91 yr old mother
    Aphrodite Macbain: etc
    Eliza Madrigal: yay
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: bye all
    Zen Arado: 91 is the new 61
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I should go too... have tasks and tired eyes
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I should be off to get some supper together for the boys. :)
    Agatha Macbeth: TC Liz
    Zen Arado: yeh I have a lot for my 71 year old body to do
    Zen Arado: byee all
    Eliza Madrigal: nice to see you all
    Zen Arado: :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye guys :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hugs
    Agatha Macbeth: Byee
    Agatha Macbeth: You don't need the log today :p
    Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
    Eliza Madrigal: no... but I'm still fidgeting with settings
    Eliza Madrigal: did you hear when I took a photo?
    Agatha Macbeth: Another fidgety person
    Agatha Macbeth: Nope
    Agatha Macbeth: Do have quiet snapshots ticked?
    Eliza Madrigal grins...yup, a fidgeter and tinkerer
    Eliza Madrigal: I must, if you didn't hear it
    Eliza Madrigal: i didn't seem to need to reset it
    Agatha Macbeth: In Advanced I think
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes
    Agatha Macbeth: And hi-res too
    Eliza Madrigal: so, feeling more comfortable with this computer but they keyboard isn't quite good
    Agatha Macbeth: gangnam
    Eliza Madrigal: hah!!
    Agatha Macbeth: Yay still have it
    --BELL--
    Eliza Madrigal: do ours work together? yours seems more fluid than mine
    Eliza Madrigal: ♬ 오빤~~강남 스~타일~~ ♪♪
    Agatha Macbeth: gangnam
    Eliza Madrigal: -«☁ »- 옵.옵.옵.옵. -«☁ »- 
    Eliza Madrigal: ♬ 헤~이 Sexy Lady~~ ♪♪
    Eliza Madrigal: yours is different.... better dance
    Agatha Macbeth: gangnam
    Eliza Madrigal: do you still dance on Saturdays?
    Agatha Macbeth: Um not for ages
    Eliza Madrigal: aw
    Agatha Macbeth: I missed the GM cos I didn't know it was on
    Eliza Madrigal: that time is working well...so will keep it up
    Eliza Madrigal: not this coming weekend though
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Eliza Madrigal: OK really poofing now
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe <3
    Agatha Macbeth: Well we have little to discuss these days it seems
    Agatha Macbeth: Anyways
    Agatha Macbeth: TC
    Eliza Madrigal: Bleu brought up a potential art project
    Eliza Madrigal: so maybe follow up next time
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh great
    Eliza Madrigal: bfn
    Agatha Macbeth: ♥

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