2018.07.02 07:00 - Gaslighting

The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind, stepping in briefly while eden is away.
The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

Welcome to the latter days.

Adams Rubble: Hello Storm :)

Storm Nordwind: Good morning Adams :)
Adams Rubble: Happy second half of 2018
Storm Nordwind: Oh!
Storm Nordwind: I hadn't thought of that!
Storm Nordwind: The nights have been drawing in for nearly two weeks though
Storm Nordwind: How do you feel 2018 has been treating you thus far?
Adams Rubble: it didn;t stay around too long :)
Adams Rubble: first half didn;t
Adams Rubble: like everyone else it is hard not to allow the news affect me
Adams Rubble: but I have been working on that
Storm Nordwind sighs and nods
Adams Rubble: not too much we can do before November
Adams Rubble: so we need to concentrate on our inner selves
Storm Nordwind: One can be a recluse (though hard) but then empathy with others is harder. So perhaps it's best to stay in touch.
Adams Rubble: we can help those who are being hurt
Storm Nordwind: Yes, very much so

Soccery things.

Adams Rubble: are you following the world cup?
Adams Rubble: is England still alive?
Storm Nordwind: Haha! One might think so, as a transplant from Old World to New, but not really, apart from having sufficient ammunition to nod in conversation.
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: you won;t need much ammunition for me :)
Adams Rubble: I'll believe anything
Storm Nordwind: I know nothing about individual teams' progress or lack therefof. But from my recollection, England supporters will already have their excuses ready!
Adams Rubble: well, that is useful
Storm Nordwind: I find the World Cup strangely out of place in today's climate. Am I just getting old, or is the climate just getting too stark?
Adams Rubble: I don't have any perspective on that
Storm Nordwind: Seems rather "panem et circenses" - anything to take the mind off more important things.

Storm Nordwind: Eliza - good morning! :)
Eliza Madrigal: Good morning, Storm, Adams :)
Storm Nordwind: I am the eden lookalike for the day ;)
Adams Rubble: Hello Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: hope you have been working on your french accent ;-)
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind: French accent is no problem. Quebecois though... hmmm...
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Sorry to pop in late, will listen in a while
Adams Rubble: we haven't gotten very far :)
Adams Rubble: Calendar and world cup
Eliza Madrigal: ah :)

In which Storm wastes an opportunity to talk about Poutine. Mmm... delicious...

Storm Nordwind: I must have told you the story of when I first visited Montreal on business back in 1983 and tried to speak French to the locals.
Adams Rubble: compassion for those being hurt
Adams Rubble: not me
Eliza Madrigal: hm, mind just warming up, so I don't recall. what happened?
Adams Rubble waits suspensefully
Storm Nordwind: It seemed polite to speak French in Quebec, and I was quite good at it (then, not now).
Storm Nordwind: So I did so, and was always replied to (firmly it seemed to me) in English
Storm Nordwind: I talked about it to the director of the company I was visiting and he suggested having a conversation in French.
Storm Nordwind: We did so, and he said my French was good and my accent was excellent
Storm Nordwind: Unfortunately, he said, it's an excellent Parisian accent, and these people hate Parisians.
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: oh dear :)
Storm Nordwind: So I'd tried to be polite and ended up offending. :/
Eliza Madrigal: cannot always avoid the potholes unfortunately
Adams Rubble: it was not you but them
Storm Nordwind shrugs
Eliza Madrigal nods, agrees
Storm Nordwind: I know Adams, but sometimes it can be devastating when you've tried so hard. On the other hand, perhaps it was insufficient empathy and preparation. Rather apposite in some ways to today's world maybe
Adams Rubble: yes, I understand the devastating
Eliza Madrigal: that doesn't seem like the sort of knowledge one would have picked up by good prep, especially then
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps I was too smug, thought I could help, but it was on my terms, by my frame of reference.
Storm Nordwind: Yes Eliza, especially then.
Adams Rubble: too easy to find hate in all the wrong places
Storm Nordwind: True Adams. With so many disparate points of view, amplified by the ease of being able to communicate nowadays, I do sometimes find empathy exhausting!
Eliza Madrigal: yet impossible to turn off once it gets going :)
Storm Nordwind: haha yes :)
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps it's just my white hair talking! ;)
Eliza Madrigal: valuable insights from many ups and downs

Conversations that turn strange in the wild.

Eliza Madrigal: Lately it is a bit strange to talk to people 'out in the wild' here. For instance, sometimes taking a Lyft, a normal conversation will turn quite strange
Storm Nordwind: Oh? Do you have an example you could share?
Eliza Madrigal: it happens so suddenly and then the awkwardness of waiting for the ride to end
Storm Nordwind: oops - hehe :/
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, well the last time it happened, there were others in the car as well, and the driver mentioned something very light about Miami in general
Eliza Madrigal: but somehow, he went into deep conspiracy theories within a few blocks...
Eliza Madrigal: just assuming that we all would feel the same
Storm Nordwind: Oh no!
Eliza Madrigal: I was so tired that day and it felt like a weird dream
Eliza Madrigal: all I could do was smile
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: but it feels like things like this happen so often now, suddenly someone will rant about football, etc
Eliza Madrigal: to me, who they don't know
Adams Rubble: so often conversations touch on politics and then all the despair comes out
Eliza Madrigal: etc.
Adams Rubble: n both the right and elft
Eliza Madrigal: yes, that despair I can appreciate spilling out
--BELL--
Adams Rubble: we need to work hard on that while we wait for November
Adams Rubble: can't do much now except try love therapy :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) having any luck with that? I'm working on dropping the knife without decreasing the attention... not sure how

Going beyond zero sum deals.

Storm Nordwind: I find it odd - and telling - that 'deal-making' has been shown to have two possible sides: the zero sum and selfish side we see so much of now, versus the positive sum working together side some of us perhaps hoped we were getting but which is lost beyond the horizon.
Eliza Madrigal: many who aspired to going beyond zero sum feeling foolish now... as though it is dangerous to be too giving
Eliza Madrigal: politically anyway
Storm Nordwind: It's easy to blame oneself for one's self-perceived naivety, but perhaps more can still be done. Who knows? It's all a surprise for this transplant!
Adams Rubble: sometimes we need to focus on what we CAN do and not despair about what we can't
Storm Nordwind: Yes Adams!
Adams Rubble: hard to do nowdays but more imnportant than ever
Eliza Madrigal: yes, she says somewhat softly :)
Adams Rubble: and have compassion for all those souls who are being crushed by their own hate
Storm Nordwind: Yes!
Adams Rubble: living in a real hell hole
Adams Rubble: nothing could ever make DT happy
Adams Rubble: he is such an unhappy person
Eliza Madrigal: that seems so
Adams Rubble: need to get him out of ofice and then have compassion for him :)
Eliza Madrigal: but he seems to have made some 'deal' early on not to be in exchange for power
Eliza Madrigal: or pretend/facade power
Storm Nordwind: hehe. Though I wonder how many average people even know how to be happy anyway, let alone those in power.
Adams Rubble: even power does not make him happy
Eliza Madrigal: there is a cynicism
Eliza Madrigal: if one thinks 'happy' is out of reach anyway, or sees the world as operating in certain dark ways across time...
Eliza Madrigal: 'zero sum'
Eliza Madrigal: so it becomes 'me and mine' and over time that can take on extreme proportions with compromise?
Adams Rubble: government favoring property over people
Storm Nordwind: The nation turned into a frontier, with frontier mentality.

A declaration of independence.

Adams Rubble: "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
Adams Rubble: we'll be reading that this week :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Storm Nordwind: I think it behooves everyone in the country to read it every week.

Gaslighting.

Eliza Madrigal: Once in a while I get a glimpse of an awakened, or at least engaged populace, scales having fallen from at least some eyes like, "wow we almost lost it all"
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind: Eliza, that's a story you could write and publish maybe? Seems to deserve it :)
Adams Rubble: There are an awful lot of good people in this country who are seeing wrongly
Eliza Madrigal: :) would like to just stay in touch with that feeling and see through those eyes, the potential in each encounter
Adams Rubble: we have seen them act better
Storm Nordwind: I have understood 'Gaslighting' for the first time in recent years, and I now see it everywhere. Maybe I need to understand how to help people out of that.
Eliza Madrigal: wow, me too Storm. I never wanted to understand that term as well as I do now
Adams Rubble: There is one TV news station who is doing that incessantly
Adams Rubble tries to calm down
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Storm Nordwind: Drop what you have, dear friend, to see what you are. :)
Eliza Madrigal: was just flashing to a conversation last week where someone threw statistics about foreigners at me and I simply asked "Where did those statistics come from?" They went blank and we let the conversation go.
Adams Rubble: :)
Storm Nordwind nods
Eliza Madrigal: but usually I can find no words unfortunately... am not the best at having knowledge at hand :(
Adams Rubble: 64% of people with distorted statistics have lost 87% of their brain cells and lose another 5% every time they try to amke up new ones
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Storm Nordwind: 87.2% of all statistics are made up on the spur of the moment
Eliza Madrigal: the one thing I try to do is to appeal to our mutual ignorance, whoever we are
Adams Rubble gasps
Eliza Madrigal: that's so specific it must be true Storm
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Storm Nordwind: I'll show you a Faux News article...
Adams Rubble: there's that French again
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Storm Nordwind: I think I will have to read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting again and look for "further reading" links.
Eliza Madrigal: would probably benefit everyone to be well-acquainted with that term 'in these times'
Storm Nordwind nods sadly
Eliza Madrigal: but hard to live seeing it
Adams Rubble: 100% of people who lovingly help others find some happiness in the process :)
Storm Nordwind: Yes!
Eliza Madrigal: Nice!
Adams Rubble: when I was a wee child, there used to be a gaslight across the street when I looked out my bedroom window :)
Adams Rubble: sometimes someone came with a little ladder to tend it
Storm Nordwind: Wow!
Adams Rubble has fond memories of gaslight
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Adams Rubble: RL Interruption. Bye of you go before I get back
Eliza Madrigal: bye Adams :)
Storm Nordwind: Bye Adams :)
--BELL--

On being a warrior without aggression.

Eliza Madrigal: Last night fell asleep listening to "Smile at Fear", a book by Chogyam Trungpa (that isn't so great on audio, but that's beside the point). It reminded me of how perplexed I was when I first came across the military-like exercises the Shambhala community did back in the day, and the emphasis on warrior mindset. It has taken me so many years go understand the "warrior without aggression" idea.
Storm Nordwind: Do you embody any of that in your own life?
Eliza Madrigal: I'm not 'there' with it entirely still, but perhaps it offers a unique perspective for those of us who want to be resistance and yet drop the anger
Eliza Madrigal: Embody, surely not yet.
Eliza Madrigal: I more often just avoided people that seemed to have it out for me... maybe I was privileged to do so
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps it has vague similarities to the 'passion without attachment' I mentioned in a session a few weeks ago.
Adams Rubble: back, reading
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, that's true Storm
Storm Nordwind: Welcome back!
Eliza Madrigal: If I'd understood 'gaslighting' earlier on, when it went on in smaller scales in say, family or friend situations, maybe I wouldn't have been so quick to avoid instead of work with
Eliza Madrigal: one mistakes the scale of things sometimes
Storm Nordwind: Yes. And the potency. And that's it's already there around us instead of being some quaint once-upon-a-time phenomenon.
Eliza Madrigal nods thoughtfully
Eliza Madrigal: Okay, must go. Thank you both for being here and having this not-so-easy kind of talk
Adams Rubble: White supremacy runs deep

Adams Rubble: bye Eliza :)
Storm Nordwind: Eliza, thank you so much for being here and your contribution
Adams Rubble: I must go too. Thanks for the session :)
Eliza Madrigal waves warmly
Storm Nordwind: Welcome :)
Adams Rubble: bye Storm :)
Storm Nordwind: Bye