2014.10.06 13:00 - Aging with grace

The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.

Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Aph, Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Cat!
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Cat
Aphrodite Macbain: I've decided to see what SL offers in the way of wrinkles
Bruce Mowbray: (I'm getting notices about creating bridges....
Aphrodite Macbain: sounds like a worthy cause
Bruce Mowbray: I do know that there are elderly avatars available.
Catrinamonblue Resident: I was just looking at you Aph :) you age very gracefully
Bruce Mowbray: I've never seen any insects or litter, though.
Aphrodite Macbain: lol thanks Cat
Bruce Mowbray cheers for graceful aging....
Aphrodite Macbain: facial hair is always a challenge!

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Eliza
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal: Hello :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Glad u could make it. :-)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: I can stay for a little while at least...happy to be here too, ty!
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)

Aphrodite Macbain: I have been playing with aging in SL - it really doesn't have too many options.
Aphrodite Macbain: Being young is what people want to look like
Eliza Madrigal: I've found that too
Eliza Madrigal: very few older avies really convey natural feeling
Aphrodite Macbain: no
Eliza Madrigal: Pila's appearance comes close
Bruce Mowbray: Pila, yes, and Vorder Forder.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes. He's more honest
Eliza Madrigal nods
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: maybe fewer people want to get in touch with their older selves
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: or admit that they are aging
Bruce Mowbray: May be fewer people have good role models for aging....
Aphrodite Macbain: They need to offer body animations for those with old bones!
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Catrinamonblue Resident: lol
Bruce Mowbray: they do have crutches, walkers, and wheelchairs, you know
Eliza Madrigal: I definitely think that's part of it... maybe due in part to how separate age categories are treated (role models)
Bruce Mowbray: Eliza has a wonderful grandfather. . . or at least I have gathered that from things she has written....
Eliza Madrigal: he's a complex person and we've had our issues over the years
Aphrodite Macbain: My grandparetns were role models for me too
Bruce Mowbray: I know -- but you always seem to work it out!
Aphrodite Macbain: Do we become more complex as we age?
Eliza Madrigal: he and I have found spaces to meet in
Eliza Madrigal: :) not sure Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: topics you feel comfortable in discussing with him?

Eliza Madrigal: yes, somewhere along the line it became possible to disagree with him

Aphrodite Macbain: But you had to work at making that space, no?
Eliza Madrigal: very much so

Bruce Mowbray: all for sure we do, Aphrodite.... ( well, I should speak for myself. . . sorry.) Some things seem to get simpler; but the more important things I don't know. I haven't figured that out yet. I'll work on it. Thank you for the question.
Aphrodite Macbain: I think we become more complex - we have so much experience to draw from
Bruce Mowbray: (agrees with Aph on that . . . then I felt something different, bit deeper....)
Catrinamonblue Resident: I'm not sure complex is the word I would use, not sure what word would work but complex doesn't work for me
Eliza Madrigal: complexity seems to take energy
Bruce Mowbray: yes, complexity is a difficult thing...
Bruce Mowbray: more complex you get the deeper you probe, or at least I do.
Bruce Mowbray: I don't mean to blame our society, but my generation was raised to feel that use (youth) was better than old age... in virtually every respect.
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Eliza Madrigal: well phrased, Bruc
Eliza Madrigal: e
Eliza Madrigal: ah, well I loved "use"
Eliza Madrigal: because it IS like that... about how useful one seems to be
Bruce Mowbray: USE it shall be!
Aphrodite Macbain: I think of someone as complex when I cant predict how they are going to respond or act.
Eliza Madrigal: human doings and all that
Eliza Madrigal: ah
Bruce Mowbray: one of the things that attracted me powerfully to the men's movement in the early 90s was their respect for elders.
Aphrodite Macbain: really?
Bruce Mowbray: I am thinking now of Robert Bly and a few others.
Bruce Mowbray: yes very much so.
Bruce Mowbray: James Hillman is also written about this.
Bruce Mowbray: powerful stuff.
Bruce Mowbray: maybe women don't have those issues, though....
Bruce Mowbray: I don't know about that.

Aphrodite Macbain: I like Japan's way of respecting their elders - as well as First Nations and many other people in eastern countries
Bruce Mowbray: Well, for me, it's not about respecting folks simply because they happen to be older... or relatives. For me, it's about respecting the values of experience and lives well lived.
Eliza Madrigal: as I age I learn how fragile one feels as a parent... not really something I could see from the other side
Eliza Madrigal: and then traditional notions of honor for elders begin to make sense
Eliza Madrigal: because it is a vulnerable position
Bruce Mowbray: Indeed it is!
Aphrodite Macbain: yes - our values change as do our expectations
Bruce Mowbray: Why do you think the Buddhist prayers mention old age . . . . in the same sentence as sickness and death? " Old age, sickness, and death...." Like that.
Eliza Madrigal: as we get older we realize that people didn't have all the resources and power we may have thought they had
Aphrodite Macbain: I like the idea of being recognized as a national treasure rather than a useless old person
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
Aphrodite Macbain: Good question Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: It seems to imply suffering....
Eliza Madrigal: youth can be a kind of palace like young guatama lived in
Bruce Mowbray: nods, good point, Eliza.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: social circumstances make a diff
 

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aggers :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Agatha!!
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
Bruce Mowbray: Aggers!
Agatha Macbeth: Greetings
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Aggers :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Yaayy
 

Aphrodite Macbain: We are talking about attitudes towards aging
Agatha Macbeth: Oh my
Aphrodite Macbain: I added a few decades to my appearance but dont feel any different!
Agatha Macbeth: Where did your hair go Aph?
Bruce Mowbray: One attitude I really like about aging is the Wabi Sabi approach.
Aphrodite Macbain: It all fell out
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Aphrodite Macbain: I got older
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: and baggier
Agatha Macbeth: And wiser?
Aphrodite Macbain: hmmmm
Aphrodite Macbain: not sure
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I know nothing
Bruce Mowbray: You know there is a slogan: "Youth is a gift; old age is an art."
Eliza Madrigal: earlier today I was thinking that our bodies change to protect us.. to help us ease away from phases of life
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: our bodies change because they are designed to fall apart
Agatha Macbeth: And they do
Bruce Mowbray: our bodies, like everything else, change. . . Some would say that entropy is in charge of this.
Aphrodite Macbain: we just have to accept that in such a youth valuing culture
Aphrodite Macbain: entropy and gravity!
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bruce Mowbray: My experience is that the body wears out.... Now, what shall I do with that?
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: excactly. what shall we do?
Eliza Madrigal: I like the idea of age as a treasure field, but the problem is the riches get locked away or lost beneath health matters so often
Bruce Mowbray: shall we ask Hamlet's question, then? To be or not to be?
Aphrodite Macbain: did anyone see the movie clip I sent out?
Bruce Mowbray: I watched it carefully, Aph.
Bruce Mowbray: and that's one of the reasons I don't want to be in New York City! ha ha.
Aphrodite Macbain: It was a great movie- I saw it at the film fest last night
Eliza Madrigal: love it
Bruce Mowbray: The one about old women putting on the duds?
Aphrodite Macbain: these wonderful women with such a positive attitude to life
Eliza Madrigal: playing
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: living intensely in the present and not worrying about how much time they have left
Eliza Madrigal: ...staying alive staying alive..."
Catrinamonblue Resident: that's the key Aph - attitude
Eliza Madrigal: I love to see humor in everything, even clothing
Agatha Macbeth throws her jacket into the crowd
Aphrodite Macbain catches the jacket
Bruce Mowbray: well, I thought: That's really fine for them . . . They have the money to dress up like that... and they enjoy it; and they enjoy each other's company.... But somehow it's just not the future I would wish for myself.
Aphrodite Macbain: No I agree Bruce; it's not for me either; but I agree with the message: carpe diem
Eliza Madrigal: the lady with the beads has an internet meme and may be the one that said that "if you threw your problems in a pile with everyone else's you'd probably take your own back."
Agatha Macbeth: Finem respice
Aphrodite Macbain: she said a few cool things!
Eliza Madrigal: yeah
Catrinamonblue Resident: smiles
Bruce Mowbray: I would definitely take my own problems back! And that has become so clear a message this past week.
Agatha Macbeth nods
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
Eliza Madrigal: read about that Bruce... sorry to hear
Aphrodite Macbain: Are you going to Alaska, Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: my dear friend in Alaska, 12 years younger than I, is facing his fourth brain surgery in the next two or three months... and I would not trade that -- no, I would not trade my lot for his. . . ( although if I could I probably would, just to relieve him of that condition.)
Bruce Mowbray: I don't know yet. We are waiting for the doctors responses to a long list of questions that we put together.
Aphrodite Macbain: kk
Aphrodite Macbain: let us know
Agatha Macbeth: Best of luck getting any answers out of a doctor.They're worse than politicians
Bruce Mowbray: But part of this is also the aging question: my friend's parents are both in their mid-80s... and both frail, and one is anticipating surgery very soon. and my friend wanted to go down to take care of her and his father.... so now we don't know whether that will be possible.
Aphrodite Macbain: :/
Aphrodite Macbain: Difficult choices Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I agree about doctors. . . but the bottom line in this one is that the doctor will give the information, and Steve will have to make the choices...
 

Bruce Mowbray: Zon-ji!
Zon Kwan: heya
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Zon :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Zon. We're talking about aging. Do you think SL plays a role in our handling aging? Is it a harmful or useful one?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zon
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Zon
 

 

Aphrodite Macbain: I baked them today Aggers
Bruce Mowbray: [no old cookies here!]
Agatha Macbeth: Yum
Agatha Macbeth: TY
Eliza Madrigal: the central question, how to keep your cookies fresh
Zon Kwan: Aph..new hair
Aphrodite Macbain: I store them in that jar - they are always fresh there
Eliza Madrigal: :)
 

Bruce Mowbray: All right, I'm going to ask one of those elephant in the room questions:
Eliza Madrigal: magic jar
Aphrodite Macbain: My old-age hair Zon
Eliza Madrigal braces herself
Zon Kwan: charming
Aphrodite Macbain: Ask away Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: I have read recently on the Internet of persons who chose a dignified suicide over a lingering deterioration.
Bruce Mowbray: I'm wondering how folks feel about that sort of thing.
Aphrodite Macbain: I hadn't noticed that elephant. But interesting question Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Well, one of them is right there in Vancouver.
Eliza Madrigal: I find it hard to answer in a generalized way, with every circumstance being different, but generally I believe in the option
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.vancouversun.com/health/D...068/story.html
Agatha Macbeth: If a person wants to die I think it's their choice
Aphrodite Macbain: I know
Bruce Mowbray: nods.
Bruce Mowbray: I admire her so much!
Aphrodite Macbain: It's much discussed on the media here
Catrinamonblue Resident: I agree that it should be allowed, but there must be stringent rules laid down that only those who have no hope of a cure or any other relief from pain.
Eliza Madrigal: I believe in death doulas
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)Is that what they are called?
Bruce Mowbray: Earlier we were talking about First American cultures -- and as I understand it, one of the things that an elderly person in those cultures might do is simply to say " Today is a good day to die" -- and go out and sit on a hill and die.
Bruce Mowbray: listens for more from Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: chances of medical institutions coming to that point are slim though. Well, a death doula may be a compassionate hospice worker
Agatha Macbeth: Does that actually happen Bruce or is it just an urban myth?
Eliza Madrigal: but someone willing to get very intimately involved
Bruce Mowbray: Can stringent rules keep you from killing yourself? And what would be the point of that?
Bruce Mowbray: but maybe that's another discussion, and another day.
Aphrodite Macbain: Nothing, I think, can keep you from killing yourself if you want to.
Catrinamonblue Resident: no Bruce but for dr's to help those in dire conditions there must be rules in place
Bruce Mowbray: It is contrary to the Hippocratic oath to allow an individual to decide the moment of his own ( or her own) death... So, don't count on any help from the medical professions on that one.
Agatha Macbeth: Biggest problem is, a clever murderer might use it to kill someone and look like suicide
Agatha Macbeth: Especially if the person was old and rich

Eliza Madrigal: the thing is, there are times, sometimes long times, that the sun goes behind the clouds... so I feel it can't be that easy either... like, there has to be ways of connection and communication
 

Bruce Mowbray: except, perhaps, in those states ( only two of them at the moment) that permit it.
Catrinamonblue Resident: saw a movie serveral years ago about this
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Catrinamonblue Resident: there are places in the states that allow it
Catrinamonblue Resident: with dr help
Aphrodite Macbain: I am sure that in many circumstancces, people are allowed to die in hospital, or a slightly bigger dose of morphine is administered
Eliza Madrigal: like I said to my son, we do have responsibility to one another, not just to ourselves. Everyone is loved by someone
Catrinamonblue Resident: wish I could remember the movie will look later and email it to the group
Agatha Macbeth: An inspector calls...
Aphrodite Macbain: I wish that were true Eliza
Bruce Mowbray: In modern society doctors have replaced shamans....
Eliza Madrigal: maybe not everyone has someone who takes responsibility for them
Bruce Mowbray: So, I apologize for steering us away from the main subject.
Bruce Mowbray: perhaps we could move back into the discussion about aging, and away from discussion about suicide?
Aphrodite Macbain: and many people would refuse to help a loved one die. There is always the slim possibility of getting better
Agatha Macbeth looks at the elephant in the pool
Eliza Madrigal: in a village we'd talk about these things, or not need to because we would see one another age... go through traumas and such together or witness them
Aphrodite Macbain: Zon - what are your thoughts on aging?
 

Catrinamonblue Resident: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1715802/
Catrinamonblue Resident: take a look at that one Bruce

Zon Kwan: life is too short for killing oneself
Zon Kwan: except in exceptional circumstances
Catrinamonblue Resident: depends on what you are living with
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes agree Zon
Eliza Madrigal: doesn't everyone's own circumstance feel exceptional to themselves?
Bruce Mowbray: One of the reasons that my mother moved to Oregon was to be able to take advantage of this law. Fortunately, she did not have to do that. She died three weeks before her 80th birthday of a stroke.
Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Zon.
Zon Kwan: why do we come here?
Zon Kwan: we have lessons to learn
Agatha Macbeth: For the cookies
Zon Kwan: when lessons are over
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Zon Kwan: we die

Aphrodite Macbain: Moving away from death to life .......I get a sense there are a lot of retired and older people in SL who get to be their true selves without being judged by appearance
Eliza Madrigal: I've met some for sure Aph
Eliza Madrigal: in the best of times SL really can free us from those prejudices
Aphrodite Macbain: they wear a youth mask...
Catrinamonblue Resident: we all wear masks :p
Catrinamonblue Resident: young or old
Aphrodite Macbain: exactly we wear a mask we hope is acceptable to society
Zon Kwan: body is a mask
Catrinamonblue Resident: yup
Eliza Madrigal: I think if finding what we love and ways to do that keeps us feeling alive
Eliza Madrigal: so if age presents an obstacle to friendships and wonderful play
Eliza Madrigal: then SL is a miracle
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
 

Aphrodite Macbain: think about your favourite age....
 

Zon Kwan: one should use the mask that suits the play
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: to fit in Zon?
Eliza Madrigal: I used to pretend to be older when I first came online
Aphrodite Macbain: why?
Eliza Madrigal: wanted to be taken seriously
Eliza Madrigal: heard
Zon Kwan: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: test myself
Aphrodite Macbain: ah- the other side of the coin
Aphrodite Macbain: what was your experience doing that Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: it was wonderful
Aphrodite Macbain: how?
Eliza Madrigal: made some incredible friendships with intelligent people who may not have seen me as someone who could relate with them
Eliza Madrigal: so it held a door open for a little while, til I proved myself, in a way
Aphrodite Macbain: so you were addressing people's prejudices against young people?
Eliza Madrigal: I guess... but it wasn't a mission or anything
Aphrodite Macbain: It's interesting how we all form judgments about age
Bruce Mowbray: nods, agrees, listens.
Eliza Madrigal: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: stereotypes abound
Aphrodite Macbain: "old people are out of date"

Agatha Macbeth: Zenny :)
Eliza Madrigal: Zen :))
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Zen :)
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Zen-ji!

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Zen- I hope you can provide some Zen wisdom about aging!
Eliza Madrigal: dating as an older person is interesting :)
Zon Kwan: hi Zen bro

Zen Arado: Hi all

Agatha Macbeth: Mr DJ is in da house
 

Eliza Madrigal: out of date? lol
Zon Kwan: why is old?
Aphrodite Macbain: how Eliza?
Bruce Mowbray: Now, here's a dude whose opinions about aging I feel great respect for!
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Zon Kwan: bodies get old
Aphrodite Macbain: Join us in the circle Zen pls
Bruce Mowbray: HI!
Zon Kwan: average mental age of people is about 12-13
Aphrodite Macbain: oh? Where did u get those figures Zon?
Catrinamonblue Resident: lol
Zon Kwan: i can see things...
Zon Kwan: lol
Aphrodite Macbain: hmmm
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Bruce Mowbray: No need to go for the lowest common denominator, though. Why not aim for the stars?
Zon Kwan: why not
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder how we judge the mental age of a person
Aphrodite Macbain: Some 12 year olds are brilliant
Eliza Madrigal: when he was about 12 my son said that he was a grown up and I was a little kid
Bruce Mowbray: what an amazing insight.
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: he meant it too, lolllol
Zon Kwan: smiles
Agatha Macbeth: Some advice: stay that way
Bruce Mowbray: the child is the father of the man ( or in this case, the woman).
Zen Arado: it's humans putting measurements on life though?
Eliza Madrigal: :) regress, Aggers?
Agatha Macbeth pokes Liz
Eliza Madrigal: for sure Zen
Bruce Mowbray: perhaps 12-year-olds want to grow up too much... though, I know I sure did when I was 12.
 

Aphrodite Macbain: I watched a movie recently about the sex habits of the elderly - in the Netherlands. It was an eye opener
Zen Arado: and expecting certain things to happen at certain ages
Bruce Mowbray: I'll bet it was, Aph!
Aphrodite Macbain: Sex continues into the 80s
Zon Kwan: yes the dutch...
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Catrinamonblue Resident: I certainly hope so!! :)
Bruce Mowbray: (My mother apparently didn't know that....)
Eliza Madrigal nods... but it isn't enough not to buy into it oneself because realistically one relates with others filters
Agatha Macbeth: Are you moving to Holland then Aph?
Aphrodite Macbain: not just the dutch Zen :-)
Zen Arado: probably best not to think of how old you are
Eliza Madrigal: Oh? what's the name of the film? lol
Agatha Macbeth: Which film?
Bruce Mowbray listens very very carefully . . . the film about the old sexy Dutch!
Zen Arado: or try to fit others preconceptions of how you should be at your age
Aphrodite Macbain: I'll look it up. I forget. (aging brain)
Zen Arado: so limiting:)
Bruce Mowbray relates closely and feels empathy with Aph on that one.
Eliza Madrigal: I tried going out dancing and the people who wanted to dance with me were really young, like my daughter... I didn't like it at all
Aphrodite Macbain: Of course, but we do it anyway Zen
Agatha Macbeth grins
Zen Arado: a shame how others stereotype us
Aphrodite Macbain: on aging brain or sex Bruce?
Zen Arado: we live in an ageist society
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Bruce Mowbray: aging brain.
Zen Arado: no respect for the elderly
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder whether it is just the western world that does
Eliza Madrigal: I think so
Zen Arado: it is to an extent I think
Bruce Mowbray: My mother folk danced until the very end. . . always going to some folk dance Festival in Oregon.. How wonderful that was!
Eliza Madrigal: we sort of kill things with our emphasis on appearances
Zen Arado: some societies revere the wisdom of age
Eliza Madrigal: sounds so nice, Bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: good for her Bruce - she is like the women from New York
Bruce Mowbray: Just imagine folk dancing with a 79-year-old woman. . . Would that not be absolutely wonderful?!!!
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps, but I think my mother embodied it rather than wearing it.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- first nations and many eastern cultures Zen
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Zen Arado: but it depends on the person not the age
Agatha Macbeth: 'Get off my foot sonny'
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Alas, I must go now. Thank you so much, Aph, for bringing us these questions.
Agatha Macbeth: Aww, bye Brucie
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Bruce :)
Agatha Macbeth: Scrape well
Zon Kwan: waves
Eliza Madrigal: bye Bruce :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Bruce.

Aphrodite Macbain: Let us know about Alaska
Zen Arado: bye Bruce

Aphrodite Macbain: Well... I realize I have to accept that I cant do the things I used to do but I will replace them with other things...
Catrinamonblue Resident: good idea Aph :)
Eliza Madrigal: acceptance=grace?
Agatha Macbeth: Bye Zon
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Agatha Macbeth: Amazing acceptance
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles
Eliza Madrigal smiles widely at Aggers
Zen Arado: accept what?
Aphrodite Macbain: It is less hard on the nerves
Agatha Macbeth examines Liz's teeth
Aphrodite Macbain: aging Zen
Zen Arado: well I don't
Zen Arado: accept other's ideas of it
Aphrodite Macbain: no? why not? It's inevitable
Eliza Madrigal accepts that after going to yoga it takes 3 days to recover
Zen Arado: why even think of it?
Catrinamonblue Resident: exactly Zen :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I bump into it constantly Zen seeing how I have changed
Zen Arado: your body tells you what you can do or not
Aphrodite Macbain: reminders
Zen Arado: similarly mentally
Eliza Madrigal: that's the hardest part to accept...mentally...
Eliza Madrigal: when young, one can push through more easily, stay up late if need be to study, etc
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- I imagine it would be hard to have Alzheimer's
Zen Arado: you judge from an assessment of your present abilities not what you 'should' be able to do at your age
Aphrodite Macbain: some people my age are running marathons
Zen Arado: that applies to tryig to do silly things to prove you aren't old
Eliza Madrigal: yeah
Aphrodite Macbain: like dressing funny?
Zen Arado: I learned that early from being disabaled
Eliza Madrigal: is it silly for me to listen to korean rap music? lol
Eliza Madrigal: am I "too old" ?
Agatha Macbeth: Ask a Korean :p
Zen Arado: or compose Trance music?
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal grins
Zen Arado: which I do
Eliza Madrigal: well that's mellow...
Catrinamonblue Resident: it really doesn't matter what "others" think, it's are you happy doing it? if yes then do it!!!!!!!!
Zen Arado: did a Techno track last week
Eliza Madrigal: but yes it is out of the box of expectations
Zen Arado: exactly Cat
Eliza Madrigal: nice, Cat :))
Aphrodite Macbain: not if u enjoy it
Catrinamonblue Resident: it's how I live :)
Zen Arado: having an accurate of ourselves not societal image ones
Aphrodite Macbain: how Cat?
Zen Arado: opinion
Catrinamonblue Resident: oh Aph if I could bottle it and give it to you I would, I'm not sure how it just is
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Catrinamonblue Resident: I just am me in all my infinite varieties :)
Zen Arado: my grandfather at my age sat in front of the fire reading the newspapers and radio
Aphrodite Macbain: as are we all Cat
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: there is a generational learning curve, nods... maybe we have more options
Zen Arado: he seemed so old yet he was younger than I am now
Aphrodite Macbain: how did he "seem" old?
Eliza Madrigal: yes! that's how my mom seems to me
Zen Arado: more learning opportunities keeps us younger nowadays
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Zen Arado: maybe that is the secret
Aphrodite Macbain: young people sit in front of the fire reading newspapers
Eliza Madrigal: access to what we love
Zen Arado: :)
Zen Arado: but that's all he did
Aphrodite Macbain: so do some teenagers!
Zen Arado: or walk around to the park
Catrinamonblue Resident: I love walking :)
Eliza Madrigal: I linger on benches a lot
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Careful...
Eliza Madrigal: thanks Aph :)
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- you never know...
Eliza Madrigal: careful?
Agatha Macbeth: You can meet odd people on benches
Zen Arado: hard to describe but he did 'old people things'
Eliza Madrigal: like me
Eliza Madrigal: heheh Zen
Zen Arado: it's more a mindset maybe
Eliza Madrigal: my mom is older than my grandfather
Eliza Madrigal: but not too late to regress a bit

Aphrodite Macbain: I will hobble out of here now and wish you good day. I may not be able to be here next week as I am travelling
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Aph
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, nice Aph
Zen Arado: kk byee Aph
Agatha Macbeth: Bye Aphie, hobble well
Eliza Madrigal: have a wonderful trip if so
Aphrodite Macbain: will see my perky 91 yr old mother
Aphrodite Macbain: etc
Eliza Madrigal: yay
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: bye all
 

Zen Arado: 91 is the new 61
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I should go too... have tasks and tired eyes
Catrinamonblue Resident: I should be off to get some supper together for the boys. :)
Agatha Macbeth: TC Liz
Zen Arado: yeh I have a lot for my 71 year old body to do
Zen Arado: byee all
Eliza Madrigal: nice to see you all
Zen Arado: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye guys :)
Eliza Madrigal: hugs
Agatha Macbeth: Byee
Agatha Macbeth: You don't need the log today :p
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Eliza Madrigal: no... but I'm still fidgeting with settings
Eliza Madrigal: did you hear when I took a photo?
Agatha Macbeth: Another fidgety person
Agatha Macbeth: Nope
Agatha Macbeth: Do have quiet snapshots ticked?
Eliza Madrigal grins...yup, a fidgeter and tinkerer
Eliza Madrigal: I must, if you didn't hear it
Eliza Madrigal: i didn't seem to need to reset it
Agatha Macbeth: In Advanced I think
Agatha Macbeth: Yes
Agatha Macbeth: And hi-res too
Eliza Madrigal: so, feeling more comfortable with this computer but they keyboard isn't quite good
Agatha Macbeth: gangnam
Eliza Madrigal: hah!!
Agatha Macbeth: Yay still have it
Eliza Madrigal: do ours work together? yours seems more fluid than mine
Eliza Madrigal: ♬ 오빤~~강남 스~타일~~ ♪♪
Agatha Macbeth: gangnam
Eliza Madrigal: -«☁ »- 옵.옵.옵.옵. -«☁ »- 
Eliza Madrigal: ♬ 헤~이 Sexy Lady~~ ♪♪
Eliza Madrigal: yours is different.... better dance
Agatha Macbeth: gangnam
Eliza Madrigal: do you still dance on Saturdays?
Agatha Macbeth: Um not for ages
Eliza Madrigal: aw
 

Agatha Macbeth: I missed the GM cos I didn't know it was on
Eliza Madrigal: that time is working well...so will keep it up
Eliza Madrigal: not this coming weekend though
Agatha Macbeth nods
Eliza Madrigal: OK really poofing now
Eliza Madrigal: hehe <3
Agatha Macbeth: Well we have little to discuss these days it seems
Agatha Macbeth: Anyways
Agatha Macbeth: TC
Eliza Madrigal: Bleu brought up a potential art project
Eliza Madrigal: so maybe follow up next time
Agatha Macbeth: Oh great
Eliza Madrigal: bfn
Agatha Macbeth: ♥

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Aphrodite Macbain: I think we become more complex - we have so much experience to draw from
Aphrodite Macbain: But you had to work at making that space, no?
Eliza Madrigal: very much so
Bruce Mowbray: (agrees with Aph on that . . . then I felt something different, bit deeper....)
Aphrodite Macbain: What feelings do each of you have about aging?
Catrinamonblue Resident: I'm not sure complex is the word I would use, not sure what word would work but complex doesn't work for me
Eliza Madrigal: complexity seems to take energy
Bruce Mowbray: yes, complexity is a difficult thing...
Bruce Mowbray: more complex you get the deeper you probe, or at least I do.
Bruce Mowbray: I don't mean to blame our society, but my generation was raised to feel that use was better than old age... in virtually every respect.
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Eliza Madrigal: well phrased, Bruc
Bruce Mowbray: youth*
Eliza Madrigal: e
Bruce Mowbray: (not use*)
Eliza Madrigal: ah, well I loved "use"
Eliza Madrigal: because it IS like that... about how useful one seems to be
Bruce Mowbray: USE it shall be!
Aphrodite Macbain: I think of someone as complex when I cant predict how they are going to respond or act.
Eliza Madrigal: human doings and all that
Eliza Madrigal: ah
Bruce Mowbray: one of the things that attracted me powerfully to the men's movement in the early 90s was their respect for elders.
Aphrodite Macbain: really?
Bruce Mowbray: I am thinking now of Robert Bly and a few others.
Bruce Mowbray: yes very much so.
Bruce Mowbray: James Hillman is also written about this.
Bruce Mowbray: powerful stuff.
Bruce Mowbray: maybe women don't have those issues, though....
Bruce Mowbray: I don't know about that.
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: I like Japan's way of respecting their elders - as well as First Nations and many other eastern countries
Bruce Mowbray: Well, for me, it's not about respecting folks simply because they happen to be older... or relatives. For me, it's about respecting the values of experience and lives well lived.
Eliza Madrigal: as I age I learn how fragile one feels as a parent... not really something I could see from the other side
Eliza Madrigal: and then traditional notions of honor for elders begin to make sense
Eliza Madrigal: because it is a vulnerable position
Bruce Mowbray: Indeed it is!
Aphrodite Macbain: yes-our values change as do our expectations
Bruce Mowbray: Why do you think the Buddhist prayers mention old age . . . . in the same sentence as sickness and death? " Old age, sickness, and death...." Like that.
Eliza Madrigal: as we get older we realize taht people didn't have all the resources and power we may have thought they had
Aphrodite Macbain: I like the idea of being recognized as a national treasure rather than a useless old person
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
Aphrodite Macbain: Good question Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: It seems to imply suffering....
Eliza Madrigal: youth can be a kind of palace like young guatama lived in
Bruce Mowbray: nods, good point, Eliza.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: social circumstances make a difff
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aggers :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Agatha!!
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
Bruce Mowbray: Aggers!
Agatha Macbeth: Greetings
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Aggers :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Yaayy
Aphrodite Macbain: We are talking about attitudes towards aging
Agatha Macbeth: Oh my
Aphrodite Macbain: I added a few decades to my appearance but dont feel any different!
Agatha Macbeth: Where did your hair go Aph?
Bruce Mowbray: One attitude I really like about aging is the Wabi Sabi approach.
Aphrodite Macbain: It all fell out
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Aphrodite Macbain: I got older
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: and baggier
Agatha Macbeth: And wiser?
Aphrodite Macbain: hmmmm
Aphrodite Macbain: not sure
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I know nothing
Aphrodite Macbain: watches Aggers transform herself
Bruce Mowbray: You know there is a slogan: " Uses a gift; old age is an art."
Eliza Madrigal: earlier today I was thinking that our bodies change to protect us.. to help us ease away from phases of life
Bruce Mowbray: YOUTH is a gift....
Aphrodite Macbain: u look the same Aggers
Agatha Macbeth: Fiddling
Agatha Macbeth is a fiddly person
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: our bodies change because they are designed to fall apart
Agatha Macbeth: And they do
Bruce Mowbray: our bodies, like everything else, change. . . Someone say that entropy is in charge of this.
Aphrodite Macbain: we just have to accept that in such a youth valuing culture
Bruce Mowbray: some would say that*
Aphrodite Macbain: entropy and gravity!
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bruce Mowbray: My experience is that the body wears out.... Now, what shall I do with that?
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: excactly. what shall we do?
Eliza Madrigal: I like the idea of age as a treasure field, but the problem is the riches get locked away or lost beneath health matters so often
Bruce Mowbray: shall we ask Hamlet's question, then? To be or not to be?
Aphrodite Macbain: did anyone see the movie clip I sent out?
Bruce Mowbray: I watched it carefully, Aph.
Bruce Mowbray: and that's one of the reasons I don't want to be in New York City! ha ha.
Aphrodite Macbain: It was a great movie- I saw itr at the film fest last night
Eliza Madrigal: love it
Bruce Mowbray: The one about old women putting on the duds?
Aphrodite Macbain: these wonderful women with such a positive attitude to life
Eliza Madrigal: playing
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: living intensely in the present
Eliza Madrigal: ...staying alive staying alive..."
Catrinamonblue Resident: that's the key Aph - attitude
Eliza Madrigal: I love to see humor in everything, even clothing
Agatha Macbeth throws her jacket into the crowd
Aphrodite Macbain: and not worrying about how much time they have left
Aphrodite Macbain catches the jacket
Bruce Mowbray: well, I thought: That's really fine for them . . . They have the money to dress up like that... and they enjoy it; and they enjoy each other's company.... But somehow it's just not the future I would wish for myself.
Aphrodite Macbain: No I agree Bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: it's not for me either; but I agree with the message: carpe diem
Eliza Madrigal: the lady with the beads has an internet meme and may be the one that said that "if you threw your problems in a pile with everyone else's you'd probably take your own back."
Agatha Macbeth: Finem respice
Aphrodite Macbain: she said a few cool things!
Eliza Madrigal: yeah
Catrinamonblue Resident: smiles
Bruce Mowbray: I would definitely take my own problems back! And that has become so clear a message this past week.
Agatha Macbeth nods
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
Eliza Madrigal: read about that Bruce... sorry to hear
Aphrodite Macbain: Are you going to Alaska Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: my dear friend in Alaska, 12 years younger than I, is facing his fourth brain surgery in the next two or three months... and I would not trade that -- no, I would not trade my lot for his. . . ( although if I could I probably would, just to relieve him of that condition.)
Bruce Mowbray: I don't know yet. We are waiting for the doctors responses to a long list of questions that we put together.
Aphrodite Macbain: kk
Aphrodite Macbain: let us know
Agatha Macbeth: Best of luck getting any answers out of a doctor
Bruce Mowbray: But part of this is also the aging question: my friends parents are both in their mid-80s... and both frail, and one is anticipating surgery very soon. and my friend wanted to go down to take care of her and his father.... so now we don't know whether that will be possible.
Aphrodite Macbain: :/
Agatha Macbeth: They're worse than politicians
Aphrodite Macbain: Difficult choices Bruce
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I agree about doctors. . . but the bottom line in this one is that the doctor will give the information, and Steve will have to make the choices...
Bruce Mowbray: Zon-ji!
Zon Kwan: heya
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Zon :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Zon. We're talking about aging. Do you think SL plays a role in our handling aging? Is it a harmful or useful one?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zon
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Zon
Aphrodite Macbain: I baked them today Aggers
Bruce Mowbray: [no old cookies here!]
Agatha Macbeth: Yum
Agatha Macbeth: TY
Eliza Madrigal: the central question, how to keep your cookies fresh
Zon Kwan: Aph..new hair
Aphrodite Macbain: I store them in that jar - they are always fresh there
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: All right, I'm going to ask one of those elephant in the room questions:
Eliza Madrigal: magic jar
Aphrodite Macbain: My old age hair Zon
Eliza Madrigal braces herself
Zon Kwan: charming
Aphrodite Macbain: Ask away Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: I have read recently on the Internet of persons who chose a dignified suicide over a lingering deterioration.
Bruce Mowbray: I'm wondering how folks feel about that sort of thing.
Aphrodite Macbain: I hadn't noticed that elephant. But interesting question Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Well, one of them is right there in Vancouver.
Eliza Madrigal: I find it hard to answer in a generalized way, with e