Page last modified 00:16, 11 Dec 2015 by eliza
2015.12.10 13:00 - Dream Session: Knowledge of Presence
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Mickorod was the guardian for this session, some of which was lost by the recorder due to SL glitchiness on this day.
[ 12:57] Mickorod Renard: hi Eliza
[ 12:57] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Hi Mick
[ 12:57] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): How is everything?
[ 12:58] Mickorod Renard: good thanks,,busy for a guy who doesnt do anything
[ 12:58] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
[ 12:58] Mickorod Renard: nice outfit
[ 12:58] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I know the feeling
[ 12:58] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): thanx
[ 12:58] PaB Listener Master: whispers: The session has not yet been claimed by a Guardian.
[ 12:58] PaB Listener Master: Eliza Madrigal has just claimed the session and will receive link to the log after the session is done. This replaces any previous claim.
[ 12:58] Mickorod Renard: I mean, its 9pm here and i havnt had a meal so I have decided on a big bowl of ice cream
[ 12:59] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yikes
[ 12:59] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): hope you follow it with something substantive
[ 12:59] Mickorod Renard: he he
[ 12:59] Mickorod Renard: doubt it
[ 12:59] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): or you might have "ice cream dreams"
[ 12:59] Mickorod Renard: I am an ice cream fiend
[ 12:59] Eliza (eliza.madrigal) smiles
[ 13:00] Mickorod Renard: how are you?
[ 13:00] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I'm waiting for a call from my daughters, but I hope it will come after meeting
[ 13:00] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I'm picking them up from an outing
[ 13:00] Mickorod Renard: no worries..best you get the call,,sl can wait
[ 13:01] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): otherwise, good, but tired. I've been working a lot this week with a friend who needed seasonal assistance
[ 13:01] Mickorod Renard: I think Ara said she was coming today
[ 13:01] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): oh, nice
[ 13:01] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): always delighted to see Ara
[ 13:01] Mickorod Renard: thats nice that you can find time to help someone
[ 13:01] Korel Laloix: brb
[ 13:01] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Hi Kori :)
[ 13:01] Mickorod Renard: Hi kori
[ 13:02] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): It was fun, and surprise money doesn't hurt
[ 13:02] Mickorod Renard: cool.....We have had some quiet dream sessions lately
[ 13:02] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): last week's was lively
[ 13:03] Mickorod Renard: yes
[ 13:03] Mickorod Renard: its hard to keep something stimulating
[ 13:03] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): perhaps we should balance things, with a dream topic sometimes and only dream sharing every other week or so
[ 13:04] Mickorod Renard: but I must say..thanks to all,,and Maxine and Fox,,that in a way its been going for some years
[ 13:04] Korel Laloix: heya
[ 13:04] Korel Laloix: IN and out today for a bit.
[ 13:04] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): okay no worries
[ 13:04] Korel Laloix: I have another Sama dream if you need one.
[ 13:05] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I could make a list of dream topics if that sounds good
[ 13:05] Mickorod Renard: wow Korel, sama is one great dreamer
[ 13:05] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): wish she could come :)
[ 13:05] Barbie Alchemi: is offline.
[ 13:05] Mickorod Renard: thats a good idea Eliza
[ 13:05] Korel Laloix: She remembers her dreams most days it seems.
[ 13:05] Korel Laloix: Just most are not much or are something she does not want to share.
[ 13:06] Eliza (eliza.madrigal) nods
[ 13:06] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): excuse me for a moment please
[ 13:06] Mickorod Renard: I must check on what topics we have during the week now
[ 13:06] Mickorod Renard: np
[ 13:07] Korel Laloix: Sure.. in and out myself.. brb
[ 13:07] Mickorod Renard: do you attend any other sessions Korel?
[ 13:07] Mickorod Renard: np
[ 13:07] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): here, sorry :)
[ 13:07] Mickorod Renard: hiya
[ 13:07] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I wonder if Aph and Bruce are still doing AI related sessions
[ 13:07] Mickorod Renard: i think Korel is away now
[ 13:08] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): was reading about the super computer yesterday...
[ 13:08] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): key in AI
[ 13:08] Mickorod Renard: I meant to come on for that this week
[ 13:08] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): quantum computing... we are now officially beyond ourselves
[ 13:08] Mickorod Renard: yes, I noticed a link on facebook that someone had posted..he he
[ 13:08] Eliza (eliza.madrigal) grins
[ 13:08] Korel Laloix: Bck for a bit.
[ 13:08] Mickorod Renard: I did read it
[ 13:08] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): fascinating
[ 13:09] Mickorod Renard: i have joined Aph in the discussions on two occasions
Visions
[ 13:09] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I have a question.... do you consider visions to be "dreams" ?
[ 13:09] Mickorod Renard: well......mmmmmmm
[ 13:09] Korel Laloix: For me, not at all.
[ 13:10] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): no? what do you see as the difference?
[ 13:10] Mickorod Renard: that would depend on what the vision context was I guess,,without thinking more
[ 13:10] Korel Laloix: Very different. But then again, my dream remembrance is nearly nothing.
[ 13:10] Korel Laloix: You work to produce a vision... they need to have the stage set.
[ 13:11] Korel Laloix: Dreams happon on their own.
[ 13:11] Mickorod Renard: I think I may have had some visions some years ago,,now looking back its easy for me to think they were like dreams...but I am sure they were not dreams
[ 13:11] Korel Laloix: Would be interesting to do an MRI comparison.
[ 13:11] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yes
[ 13:12] Mickorod Renard: could we consider halucinations as dreams or visions?
[ 13:12] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I think of visions as happening on their own, although yes usually some basis, cultivation
[ 13:12] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): that's a good question too, Mick
[ 13:12] PaB Bell: 90 second pause. Please be silent in mindfulness.
[ 13:12] Korel Laloix: if you just randomly take a halu, y ou will get random thoughts.
[ 13:13] Mickorod Renard: I think a vision is subjective as they often include some aspect that is considered external
[ 13:13] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): mixture
[ 13:13] PaB Bell: Shhhhhhhh! Quiet please.
[ 13:13] PaB Bell: Thank you. Please continue to be mindful.
[ 13:14] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I think of daydreams as projections
[ 13:14] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): more so than visions
[ 13:14] Korel Laloix: But when I receive Peyote or San Pedro, I do them in set up circumstances in the NAC setting that has me in a reflective mood already. Taking them out of that context I think would be nearly pointless.
[ 13:15] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): interesting Kori
[ 13:15] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): it sounds like a setting in which you surrender to environment...
[ 13:15] Mickorod Renard: mmm yes
[ 13:15] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): trust the setting, therefore are able to let go for a purpose
[ 13:15] Mickorod Renard: I wish I was more familiar with that Kori
[ 13:16] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): seems intimate
[ 13:16] Mickorod Renard: peyote and san pedro? what are they,,excuse my ignorance
[ 13:16] Korel Laloix: Not sure surrender is the right word.. the environment is presented to you. you have to accept it. But I can see how that might be a good term.
[ 13:17] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): thanks for the clarification, hm
[ 13:17] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): in forest practice we sort of became receptive to the guidance of the surrounding
[ 13:17] Korel Laloix: Same way with a lodge... if done right, it will help you and encourage you toward clarity.
[ 13:17] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so I was thinking of it like that
[ 13:18] Mickorod Renard: ahh ok,,yes mescaline
[ 13:18] Korel Laloix: Forest practice?
[ 13:18] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): in retreats we did these practices where we followed openings, basically
[ 13:18] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and let the environment guide the adventure
[ 13:19] Mickorod Renard: I did have a wiz with mesc in my younger days...great stuff
[ 13:19] Korel Laloix: That would sort of freak me out I think. I have a hard time with forests.
[ 13:19] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): one time, I heard a little question rise up, "Why do you keep going for the difficult places?"
[ 13:19] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): not sure about mescaline :)
[ 13:20] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but then again I've not had experiences with the other either
[ 13:20] Korel Laloix: I don't think I have had a proper exposre to that.
[ 13:20] Mickorod Renard: isnt that peyote?
[ 13:20] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): forest practice was a bit of a Being Seeing practice
[ 13:20] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): is it?
[ 13:20] Korel Laloix: Not exactly.. but I don't know the exact difference. I guess I need to look that up.
[ 13:21] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): mescaline is lab produced isn't it?
[ 13:21] Mickorod Renard: No collection would be complete without our sacred mescaline cacti: peyote (Lophophora williamsii), san pedro (Echinopsis pachanoi) and Peruvian torch (Trichocereus peruvianus). .
[ 13:21] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): huh
[ 13:21] Mickorod Renard: I copied that from the net
[ 13:21] Eliza (eliza.madrigal) always learns something at PaB ^^
[ 13:21] Korel Laloix: Yes, I was confusing the chemical name with the plant in my head.
[ 13:22] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): makes me think of Carlos Castaneda books :)
[ 13:23] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Wol! You made it :)
[ 13:23] Mickorod Renard: i can recall after about 45 years,,that when I tried it it did remove me from the world that we call existence. I was in some sort of semi cartoon film
[ 13:23] Mickorod Renard: Hi Wol
[ 13:23] Korel Laloix: Osiyo
[ 13:23] Eliza (eliza.madrigal) grins
[ 13:24] Korel Laloix: OH fun.
[ 13:24] Wol Euler: evening all, sorry I'm late
[ 13:24] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I should dig out my skates
[ 13:25] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I think when people describe SL as being immersive they are kind of in a Being Seeing stance, letting the environment present their path
[ 13:25] Mickorod Renard: I ended up crashing a bi plane during a battle with the red byron in some aerial combat during the first ww...and the music was snoopy and the red baron
[ 13:25] Korel Laloix: That sounds fun and scarey.
[ 13:25] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): um, what?
[ 13:25] Mickorod Renard: yes, great fun
[ 13:25] Wol Euler smiles.
[ 13:26] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): oooh I'd missed the first part of that story
[ 13:26] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): haha
[ 13:26] Eliza (eliza.madrigal) reads back
[ 13:26] Mickorod Renard: a vivid dream...or something
[ 13:26] Mickorod Renard: although i was awake
[ 13:26] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I see
[ 13:26] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so high traction kind of dream
[ 13:26] Mickorod Renard: he he
[ 13:26] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
[ 13:26] Korel Laloix: high traction?
[ 13:27] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): really taken in
[ 13:27] Mickorod Renard: completely...and no way out
[ 13:27] Korel Laloix: Oh OK.
[ 13:27] Mickorod Renard: thats the interesting thing,,there is no waking up..until its over
[ 13:28] Korel Laloix: It is also the scary thing.
[ 13:28] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): give over a lot of control
[ 13:28] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): then forget you gave it :)
[ 13:29] Mickorod Renard: the visions and the dreams still leave you some knowledge of presence
[ 13:29] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): say more?
[ 13:29] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): "knowledge of presence"
[ 13:30] Mickorod Renard: maybe not the right words...some awareness of yourself
[ 13:30] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): no I love the wording
[ 13:30] Mickorod Renard: erk,,still not right
[ 13:30] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :))
[ 13:30] Korel Laloix: Being in a vision you dont' want to be in any longer really really really sucks. But, probably good you can't get out. Or else you miss the really really really uncomfortable but important things you need to see.
[ 13:30] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I guess that's when you need to trust the environment
[ 13:31] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): or/and.. your own mind
[ 13:31] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): (same thing?)
[ 13:31] Korel Laloix: Or both?
[ 13:31] Eliza (eliza.madrigal) nods thoughtfully
[ 13:31] Mickorod Renard: he he ,,I think its dificult to put into words
[ 13:31] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): that is the way they speak of bardo and book of the dead
[ 13:32] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): not getting too sucked into various distractions
[ 13:32] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but not trying to escape the journey either
[ 13:32] Dianket Wobbit: is online.
[ 13:32] Korel Laloix: Book of the Dead? That is the Tibetan text?
[ 13:32] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Hi Ara :))
[ 13:32] arabella Ella: Hiya!
[ 13:33] Mickorod Renard: I find it scary sometimes to wonder about what is real,,it is like we buy into an reality
[ 13:33] Mickorod Renard: Hi Ara
[ 13:33] arabella Ella: Apologies for being late but have been struggling with updates
[ 13:33] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yes, there is an Egyptian book of the dead too, but not same
[ 13:33] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Oh dear
[ 13:33] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): no worries at all
[ 13:33] Wol Euler: hello ara
[ 13:33] Mickorod Renard: nice to see ya
[ 13:33] Korel Laloix: My aunts have that on my reading list.. just not to it yet.
[ 13:34] Mickorod Renard: bardo,,isnt that knowledge?
[ 13:34] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): in between places
[ 13:34] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so to me seems very dream like
[ 13:35] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): thresholds or transition states
[ 13:35] Mickorod Renard: ahh ty,,yes just looked it up
[ 13:35] Wol Euler: like standing in the doorway between two rooms
[ 13:35] Wol Euler: for a moment you are "nowhere"
[ 13:35] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): wonderful description
[ 13:36] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): maybe sometimes feels like a room with many doors
[ 13:36] Mickorod Renard: yes, although I guess in our context we are talking about all sorts of things that could go on in that period
[ 13:36] Wol Euler: a corridor
[ 13:36] Korel Laloix: That is an interesting way to look at it.. but not how we look at it. Wonder if that is a language thing.
[ 13:36] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): like a screen,perhaps
[ 13:36] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): there is nothing happening but projections may be apparent
[ 13:37] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): not sure :)
[ 13:37] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but I think fear is the biggest lure
[ 13:37] Mickorod Renard: there is so much we dont know for sure its fun to speculate weird options
[ 13:38] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yes!
[ 13:38] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and to compare sensibilities
[ 13:38] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but, lucid dreaming and bardo teachings seem very similar to me
[ 13:39] Mickorod Renard: like for eg that there is so much in the universe they cant even see or determine where it is
[ 13:39] Eliza (eliza.madrigal) nods
[ 13:39] Mickorod Renard: maybe we do exist in other places too
[ 13:40] Mickorod Renard: yes, I felt I had some of those bardo type teachings in some past dreams,,interesting isnt it
[ 13:40] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I think so
[ 13:41] Mickorod Renard: but also I think that my mind is so busy while awake that I miss the obvious,,yet when asleep there is time to digest events and see the clarity
[ 13:42] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): relate to that too
[ 13:42] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I'm not dreaming much lately... just vivid moments or impressions
[ 13:43] Mickorod Renard: i have a quick dream
[ 13:43] Mickorod Renard: shall we save Samas
[ 13:43] Mickorod Renard: save
[ 13:44] Mickorod Renard: wud u like to see it?
[ 13:44] Korel Laloix: I don't know if I am dreaming more, but with Sama always writing hers down it helps me remember mine. Still just remembering small pictures though.
[ 13:44] Korel Laloix: Sure.
[ 13:44] Mickorod Renard: kk
[ 13:44] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): okay sure. I'll need to duck out a little early (just got a call from shopping daughters)
[ 13:44] Mickorod Renard: coming up
[ 13:44] Mickorod Renard: np
[ 13:45] Mickorod Renard: anyone not got it let me know
[ 13:45] Wol Euler: ty mick
[ 13:45] Mickorod Renard: :)
[ 13:45] Second Life: Mickorod Renard gave you dream of billowing sheets.
[ 13:45] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ty, received
[ 13:46] PaB Bell: 90 second pause. Please be silent in mindfulness.
[ 13:47] PaB Bell: Thank you. Please continue to be mindful.
[ 13:48] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): pleasure to read, Mick! so many impressions
[ 13:48] Mickorod Renard: I didnt get the feeling I had received any insightful messages in this dream
[ 13:49] Mickorod Renard: he he
[ 13:49] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but a range of feelings
[ 13:49] Mickorod Renard: I do have a fetish for bed sheets tho
[ 13:49] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
[ 13:49] Wol Euler grins.
[ 13:49] arabella Ella giggles
[ 13:49] Mickorod Renard: always have
[ 13:50] Eliza (eliza.madrigal): others thoughts?
[at this point Eliza was frozen then knocked out of SL and couldn't get back to the pavilion when she signed on. The log recorded nothing further although I'd entered in other lines. Ah well :) ]
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