The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Aph!
Bruce Mowbray: What's this I hear about this being Eden's session?
Bruce Mowbray: and Eliza subbing?
Aphrodite Macbain: I think Eliza was confused. 7AM is normally Eden's
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, that's what I thought, too.
Bruce Mowbray: np, then.
Bruce Mowbray: Ahoy, Raffi.
Raffila Millgrove: Hi everyone. i came for the cookies of course.
Raffila Millgrove: i heard there were cookies.
Raffila Millgrove: lol
Bruce Mowbray: Me too!
Bruce Mowbray: I can slide you an Oreo, I think.
Bruce Mowbray: There you are.
Raffila Millgrove: mm. very tasty. ty Bruce.
Bruce Mowbray: Sorry it's not a Christmas cookie, but it's the best I could do.
Raffila Millgrove: oh i just notice the Santa shoulder pet. very nice!
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, someone gave that to me last year.
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Raffi
Raffila Millgrove: heya Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: Please, join us
Raffila Millgrove: i am eating a cookie. thanks to Bruce.
Raffila Millgrove: i gotta adjust myself .. in the sitting. hang on a few.
Aphrodite Macbain: hard to eat and sit at the same time :-)
Bruce Mowbray nods, agrees.
Raffila Millgrove nods.
Dresses
Raffila Millgrove: yeah this dress does not sit well.
Raffila Millgrove: some of these mesh dresses are really ghastly for sitting.
Bruce Mowbray: My "adjustment" of the sitting involves first using one of the sit animations, then standing, then typing ALT CTRL "S" so I can sit like I am now.
Aphrodite Macbain: complicated!
Raffila Millgrove: i have some sits in my AO i think. i might go with that idea.
Bruce Mowbray: One gets used to it...
Raffila Millgrove: since the cushion today makes me look pretty weird.
Bruce Mowbray: and with the built-in "sit" I have all of my other gestures free.
Raffila Millgrove: I am not even sure why i am wearing this dress.
Raffila Millgrove: the longer i am on SL the harder it seems and more complicated to get dressed.
Bruce Mowbray: Why don't you try ALT CTRL "S", Raffi?
Bruce Mowbray: (Maybe it only works in Firestorm....)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Zen
Raffila Millgrove: yeah that didn't work.
Raffila Millgrove: Hello Zen.
Bruce Mowbray: kk, sry.
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Zen!
Zen Arado: Hi Aph, Raff, Bruce
Aphrodite Macbain likes Zen's Bob Marley t shirt
Raffila Millgrove: ah ha. i manage to sit down. eight minutes after arrival.
Aphrodite Macbain: that seems to work as a sit Raffi-shows off your nice long legs!
Zen Arado: ty Aph
Zen Arado: seem to like simplicity lately
Bruce Mowbray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdB-8eLEW8g
Raffila Millgrove: haha. that was one reason i was so long getting dressed. trying to match up my fake (prim) feet. i finally broke down and got some.. so i could buy a few new shoes.
Aphrodite Macbain: Is your little Santa whispering sweet nothings in your ear Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Raffila Millgrove is coming across pathetically shallow.. more than usual.
Aphrodite Macbain: ha ha
Aphrodite Macbain: I would never think of you as shallow
Bruce Mowbray: me neither.
Raffila Millgrove: well if i didn't know me and this was my first impression of myself.. i would.
Raffila Millgrove: haha.
Aphrodite Macbain: nothing wrong with looking good
Bruce Mowbray checks out Aph's hat.
Aphrodite Macbain: How is everyone? Surviving the holiday season?
Zen Arado: trying to stay awake
Zen Arado: keep falling asleep..until I go to bed
Aphrodite Macbain: :-) up late last night Zen?
Zen Arado: then I'm wide awake
Bruce Mowbray: I just let it pass over - after sending out the cards to folks who send them to me.... and making contributions in family members' names to heifer.com
Zen Arado: nope
Aphrodite Macbain: nods- sounds familiar
Qt Core: Hi all
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Qt!
Zen Arado: Hi Qt
Raffila Millgrove: that is a great charity.
Raffila Millgrove: my church supported them for 50 years now.
Bruce Mowbray: This year I gave bee hives. Last year I gave heifers.
Raffila Millgrove: oh that is such a cool idea Bruce.
Raffila Millgrove: it's nice they have hives too.
Raffila Millgrove: what could be better than learning to be a bee keeper?
Raffila Millgrove: seriously. it's really profitable in a small way and nice work.
Aphrodite Macbain: I've been going to bed around 1 and not falling to sleep for hours afterwards. Hi Qt!
Zen Arado: I go to bed at 1am and get up at 9am
Raffila Millgrove: you do Zen?
Raffila Millgrove: i do that sometimes too
Bruce Mowbray: and chickens, and other things that will help people to pull their own weight.
Bees
Aphrodite Macbain: But bees are having trouble surviving, no?
Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Aph - because I've also had insomnia problems for decades....
Raffila Millgrove: i didn't know they had bees now too.
Raffila Millgrove: that is fab.
Raffila Millgrove: it's better really than heifers.
Zen Arado: bees are dying out?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Raffila Millgrove: yeah bees are having a hard time in lots of places.
Aphrodite Macbain: for a number of reasons
Aphrodite Macbain: killer bees from Africa, a mite that lives on bees, monoculture...
Bruce Mowbray: I'm guessing that wherever they are sending the bees doesn't not have as much problem keeping them alive as we do in North America.
Bruce Mowbray: I understand (from their literature) that some of the bees go to Guatemala.
Raffila Millgrove: Hi QT. i didn't see you arrive.
Raffila Millgrove: we early birds got cookies!
Qt Core: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: Monoculture is a killer. Without diverse sources of honey, bees have a hard time surviving
Aphrodite Macbain: I think bees are in the air. I have seen at least 3 art exhibits whose focus is on bee culture
Raffila Millgrove: Aph are we supposed to discuss a topic with you?
Aphrodite Macbain: he he
Bruce Mowbray listens for a topic.
Aphrodite Macbain: I was talking about bees....
Aphrodite Macbain: that could lead to a topic
Raffila Millgrove: oh ok.
Aphrodite Macbain: like environmental change
Bruce Mowbray: or. . . insomnia. . . .
Aphrodite Macbain: honey
Aphrodite Macbain: wax
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Bruce Mowbray ponders counting bees in order to fall asleep.
Aphrodite Macbain hears a slight buzzing in her ears
Raffila Millgrove: the bees left my hummingbird feeder alone for years, suddenly they are chasing the hummingbirds away.
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Wow.
Aphrodite Macbain: Interesting. I wonder why
Raffila Millgrove: i was wondering too
Aphrodite Macbain: Perhaps they are forced to look elsewhere for honey -like hummingbird feeders
Bruce Mowbray: I have a large - very large - hive in one of the walls of a farm shed.
Raffila Millgrove: do you collect honeycomb or honey from it Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: I see them swarm almost every summer.... like a tornado .
Aphrodite Macbain: One thing we can do to help is to plant flowers that bees and butterflies love
Bruce Mowbray: Nope. But I can hear them inside the wall, and one of them stung the young man who mows my grass last summer.
Raffila Millgrove: yeah i have a huge population of butterflies, bees and hummingbirds.. due to my garden... full of stuff they like.
Birds
Raffila Millgrove: also birds. I have so many birds i cannot watch them all.
Bruce Mowbray: Wonderful!
Aphrodite Macbain: good for you Raffi
Bruce Mowbray: I have lots and lots of birds, too. . . . with feeders always full outside both windows where I sit at computers.
Raffila Millgrove: i live right at edge of an oak forest.. last house, top of hill. i am my own wild life preserve.
Raffila Millgrove: lol
Bruce Mowbray: Me too, Raffi!
Bruce Mowbray: My front yard is a forest, to be sure.
Raffila Millgrove: me too.. the big window to see everything. and the feeders
Zen Arado: I get seagulls, sparrows and pigeons mainly
Zen Arado: a robin lately
Bruce Mowbray: Wow!
Raffila Millgrove: oh i love watching seagulls.
Raffila Millgrove: they are so interesting.
Bruce Mowbray: I've never seen a seagull here.
Zen Arado: I don't like them
Zen Arado: they have an awful screech
Raffila Millgrove: i am too far from coast for them.. but whenever we go over to beach i can't get enough of them..
Raffila Millgrove: really?
Raffila Millgrove: i find them fascinating.
Aphrodite Macbain: they make me think of the sea
Aphrodite Macbain: do you have a bird feeder Zen?
Zen Arado: no feeder
Zen Arado: nowhere to put one
Raffila Millgrove: well if you got pigeons. that is probably for the best.
Zen Arado: I only have a tiny garden
Aphrodite Macbain: I have a feeder and I get to watch all the different birds come by - each in their season
Zen Arado: I throw bread for the sparrows
Raffila Millgrove: you feed the pigeons, you regret that pretty fast.
Zen Arado: yeh
Zen Arado: not so keen on pigeons either
Zen Arado: make a mess
Aphrodite Macbain: right now there are ruby finches, singing like crazy and chickadees, and bush tits
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.hermitdog.com/halifax_2007/halif003.JPG
Bruce Mowbray: That's my hand feeding seagulls in Halifax, Nova Scotia.
Raffila Millgrove: they used to have many many birds on the East Coast of the US>. in 1850, they had more than 150 species of birds for sale in the Boston market.
Aphrodite Macbain: :-) seagulls here are very tame. They are always looking for food.
Raffila Millgrove: for eating. they used to eat a lot of birds. now they are all gone of course.. just like the oysters.
Bruce Mowbray nods, I named that one Jonathan Livingston.
Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce- that is a pigeon I think, not a seagull
Bruce Mowbray: Nope, J.L. Seagull... No?
Aphrodite Macbain: Seagulls are bigger and whiter
Raffila Millgrove: we don't really eat birds anymore. just turkey and chicken.
Bruce Mowbray: OH, you meant the photo. You're right. Pigeons.
Raffila Millgrove: i wonder what eating a lot of different birds was like.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Bruce Mowbray: I named a PIDGEON Jonathan Livingston.
Aphrodite Macbain: probably tiresome. Too many bones. Cornish game hens are nice but fiddly
Raffila Millgrove: likely true.
Qt Core: In Milan there are a few seagulls in what could be called Milan harbour
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh!
Bruce Mowbray: That pretty far inland, too. Right, Qt?
Raffila Millgrove: At the height of Roman empire .. in Rome.. you just had to have a Greek cook. I always wish I could taste how they cooked then, the recipes are very interesting and different from today.
Raffila Millgrove: talking about the honey made me think of that.
Honey
Raffila Millgrove: cause they are sweetened with honey.
Raffila Millgrove: i drank mead.. which was very common at the time. it's amazing good.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes they prob used a lot of honey and lemons
Zen Arado: no refined sugar then
Raffila Millgrove: they did.
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: mead is nice...very heady
Zen Arado: sugar from sugar cane is a relatively new thing
Zen Arado: that's why we are so overweight nowadays compared to ancestors
Aphrodite Macbain: It is Zen I thought it was growing as early as the 17th century
Zen Arado: thought I read about 200 years ago?
Zen Arado: could be wrong
Aphrodite Macbain: the slave trade and sugar cane farming was happing in the 18th century
Qt Core: yes, but even if they were buried in last century, Milan was a city of channels, there is/was a way to go by boat from Switzerland to the sea using rivers and channels
Bruce Mowbray nods. We used to have 16 bee hives here at the farm... but they were attended by another farmer, not me.
Milan canals
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh, canals!
Bruce Mowbray: as in Venice!
Qt Core: i just went visiting that Milan harbour last week: https://picasaweb.google.com/1104762...nLikeATurist10
Raffila Millgrove: really?
Raffila Millgrove: wow i don't even remember all those canals in Milan. those are cool photos! ty
Qt Core: only the presence of those channels made the building of the Duomo, the stone came on those
Raffila Millgrove: if you didn't know it was Milan you'd think you were in Venice.
Raffila Millgrove: altho.....the buildings. the colors aren't the same exactly.
Bruce Mowbray: Milan is an amazing city - wish I could visit it sometimes.
Aphrodite Macbain: I had no idea there were so many canals. Milan is far from the sea
Raffila Millgrove: is this near where you live QT?
Raffila Millgrove: I didn't properly tour Milan.. more like passing thru....
Qt Core: yes, Raffi, I'm just outside Milan, less than an hour from my home to that places by public transportation
Raffila Millgrove: I liked places in italy like Milan and
Bruce Mowbray: I love those trolleys, Qt.
Raffila Millgrove: Genoa that weren't jammed with tourists. i was there one summer
Raffila Millgrove: but it was long ago.
Qt Core: all in all there are three main channels and that bigger water is where two of them ends
Aphrodite Macbain: major port then
Aphrodite Macbain: where does the water come from Qt?
Qt Core: the Ticino river
Qt Core: west of Milan
Aphrodite Macbain: ah, so they come from a river rather than a sea
Aphrodite Macbain: prob the Ticino river flows to the Mediterranean
Qt Core: they start and end in the Ticino river, then it goes into Po river and ends in the Mediterranean on east side of Italy
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Qt
The Grand Tour
Aphrodite Macbain: Does anyone know about the Grand Tour - where wealthy gentlemen and some ladies toured Europe during the 17-19th centuries?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I took the Grand Tour in 1966...
Aphrodite Macbain: :-) me too
Bruce Mowbray: We went through nine countries in ten weeks.
Zen Arado: it was young Englishmen mainly I think
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Bruce Mowbray: (I took it as part of grad school...)
Aphrodite Macbain: like the Romantic poets
Zen Arado: the original idea
Raffila Millgrove: i just read a book about ... Budapest as part of the Grand Tour...
Raffila Millgrove: mystery story.
Zen Arado: to broaden their education
Aphrodite Macbain: they would write books, journals,
Bruce Mowbray: Two grad courses in Renaissance history.
Aphrodite Macbain: Oh Raffi? what is it called?
Qt Core: it was tied to romanticism and the renewed interest in ancient Rome / Greece
Raffila Millgrove: starring Edna Ferber as the detective.
Raffila Millgrove: weird as all get out.
Raffila Millgrove: my granddaughter age 2 picked it out for me.
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Raffila Millgrove: we went.. to library.. for the toddler children story hour.
Aphrodite Macbain: who write it and what is it called?
Raffila Millgrove: we are there 20 minutes and suddenly we are into a god awful arts and crafts activity...of making garland.. i told her.. ack ack. Baba does not do arts and crafts,, come pick out some books for me.
Aphrodite Macbain: I hadn't realized Budapest was on the tour
Zen Arado: I think the young Englishmen spent rather longer than that
Aphrodite Macbain: lol Raffi
Bruce Mowbray: Wordsworth and Coleridge also took the Grand Tour....
Raffila Millgrove: i have taught her that red labels on new books are mysteries.. so she picks out red label books and i read them.. for real so she knows i take her seriously.
Bruce Mowbray: That sounds wonderful, Raffi.
Raffila Millgrove: i also taught her how to check out books. she's very smart. we don't need to waste our time on me cutting up paper and her sticking some tape or something to make a paper garland. i'd rather do a root canal.
Raffila Millgrove: I always wanted a little genius child all to myself. now that she can talk.. i am having fantastic times "babysitting". she stays a couple days with me. it's the joy of my life
Aphrodite Macbain: I think my major project for the course I'm taking will concern the grand tour.
Aphrodite Macbain: I hope to follow some in their journeys, make drawings and write a journal
Bruce Mowbray: (I think the tour might go "faster" with modern transportation.... and only a summer's vacation from teaching to do it in.)
Aphrodite Macbain: Wordsworth and Coleridge also took the Grand Tour....---how do you know Bruce?.
Bruce Mowbray: Because they both wrote about it in the journals.
Aphrodite Macbain: I am looking for info resources
Qt Core: yes, but one would probably end up visiting only main cities and losing the country
Bruce Mowbray: I will get them to you.
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks!
Bruce Mowbray: (references, I mean).
Bruce Mowbray: yw.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- they would mainly go to the main cities- and look at the art and architecture there
Zen Arado: 'The Grand Tour was the traditional trip of Europe undertaken by mainly upper-class European young men of means, or those of more humble origin who could find a sponsor. The custom flourished from about 1660 until the advent of large-scale rail transport in the 1840s, and was associated with a standard itinerary.'
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, you're right about visiting only the main cities... although our bus did take us through the countryside, as well.
Raffila Millgrove: wow Aph.. that sounds like a really interesting project!
Things botanical
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm interested to find out whether any of them went to visit botanical gardens
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Zen. I'm going to see which women of means went.
Raffila Millgrove: oh i thought we gave up the quiet thing. sorry.
Qt Core: wondering if at those times there were botanical gardens open to the public
Raffila Millgrove: i think they had amazing botanical gardens.. even then.
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder too Zen
Aphrodite Macbain: some were private
Raffila Millgrove: I was reading about how they had tremendous battles over naming the plants.
Aphrodite Macbain: some were public - like the Boboli Gardens in Florence
Raffila Millgrove: getting them organized.. it was a huge fight.
Zen Arado: travel was a lot more difficult and hazardous in those days
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Zen Arado: so not many women undertook it
Raffila Millgrove: it was all over the newspapers of the time. big arguments over the names.
Aphrodite Macbain: that's why I'm interested in the women Zen
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- botanists continue to argue about plant names
Aphrodite Macbain: now that we have genetic testing, it is easier to see which family they are from
Raffila Millgrove: well in the book i read the fictional Edna Ferber said that few women were "allowed" to take any tours. yeah the botanists of the time were rabid on these names. their letters took up huge pages of newspaper.. arguing. i loved reading it.
Qt Core: yes, but the last part of the scientific name of both plants and animals is still "whatever the discoverer wants"
Aphrodite Macbain: I am trying to decide what plants I will draw for each place....maybe based on a reference the women would make in their journals
Raffila Millgrove: they had conservatories.. the iron-glass structure.. in the bigger houses and grew lemon trees year round, oranges, orchids. very sophisticated stuff.
Zen Arado: Brian Sewell Grand Tour series might be useful. he died recently btw
Zen Arado: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch1tLCZp388
Aphrodite Macbain: yes Raffi - many names end in "Banksia" referring to Joseph Banks
Raffila Millgrove: they had roses in pots btw which is one reason i went into roses in pots.. it was not a new idea. at the time tho.. 15 yrs ago... the rose society said. no no no... now they even have patio roses bred for pots. roses do great in them.
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks Zen
Aphrodite Macbain: interesting Raffi
Zen Arado: he has a very upper class plummy accent
Raffila Millgrove: ARS was dead set against roses in pots. i loved seeing them proven wrong since I'd read all about roses in pots in 1600s.
Aphrodite Macbain: My first step is to find a book that discusses the 18th c grand tour
Aphrodite Macbain: from the perspective of women
Raffila Millgrove: well Bruce is your man.. he is such a great researcher.. he finds links in no time. i wish we could enter him in a contest.
Zen Arado: I think there were a few brave souls did it
Aphrodite Macbain: u would need deep pots
Raffila Millgrove: for roses?
Raffila Millgrove: no you don't because their roots are shallow.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: really?
Raffila Millgrove: used to be if you typed Roses in pots into a browser.. you'd find a long article on it.. by this guy.. who interviewed me.
Aphrodite Macbain: don't they need to grow roots to get more nourishment?
Aphrodite Macbain: interesting- thanks
Raffila Millgrove: he printed half "my stuff" that i wrote him as his own.. but i didn't fault him for it since i wanted the info "out there."
Zen Arado: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ladies-Grand.../dp/0060185430
Aphrodite Macbain: trouble is I don't seem to be able to draw roses.:-D
Raffila Millgrove: they do great in pots.
Raffila Millgrove: really?
Raffila Millgrove: you have problem with them?
Raffila Millgrove: your drawings are so good Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes thanks Zen - I'm going to order that book
Zen Arado: I did a pastel painting of a white rose one time
Aphrodite Macbain: their petals are so complex
Bruce Mowbray: Wow, that's a cool link, Zen.
Aphrodite Macbain: unless they are the heritage roses
Raffila Millgrove: yeah i was just going to say.. that you could start with the old rose.
Raffila Millgrove: it's only five petal.
Raffila Millgrove: yeah..
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: maybe there were more old than new roses in the 18th c garden
Raffila Millgrove: they go up to 60 now i think.
Bruce Mowbray: and THAT's a cool painting, too, Zen.
Raffila Millgrove: what i did was photo one and use.. the "special effects" button on the photo editor to make it a line drawing.
Zen Arado: don't think I could do that now
Raffila Millgrove: you might try that. to get idea of how the lines work.
Aphrodite Macbain: that's great Zen
Zen Arado: no lines just gradations of dark and light
Zen Arado: I'm not much for linear stuff
Raffila Millgrove: i was meaning for Aph on that lines suggestion.
Zen Arado: not many lines in nature
Zen Arado: nature is wiggly...as Alan Watts said :)
Raffila Millgrove: but you were painting.. and she's doing more of illustration and that really does require the lines.
Aphrodite Macbain: shadows, lights darks medium
Zen Arado: oh yes whatever helps
Zen Arado: everyone is different
Aphrodite Macbain: there are hundreds of hues in a single coloured rose.
Zen Arado: I remember guys in an art club doing a big elaborate pencil drawing then filling it in with watercolor
Aphrodite Macbain: You captured the shape so well
Raffila Millgrove: the color thing. i think it's the fun part. but getting the shapes.. the delineation of each petal.. it's a complicated exercise.
Zen Arado: I used charcoal a bit to sketch outlines
Raffila Millgrove: did he print a link to his white rose?
Raffila Millgrove: oh i see. (Zen shows the image of his rose)
Raffila Millgrove: ah.
Zen Arado: it's nice and soft and expressive
Bruce Mowbray: I need to be scooting on. Thank you, Aph and everyone.
Qt Core: Bye Bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: bye bruce
Zen Arado: bye Bruce
Raffila Millgrove: wow that is just gorgeous
Aphrodite Macbain: Isn't it?
Zen Arado: actually I sold that to a Canadian woman
Zen Arado: sent it to her
Raffila Millgrove: this is the white rose Zen?
Raffila Millgrove: amazing.
Zen Arado: yes
Raffila Millgrove: love the way you got it.
Zen Arado: it was pretty small
Qt Core: Nice (i like more the quiet and lightness of the other)
Raffila Millgrove: i must be hungry. this looks like something good to eat too
Zen Arado: maybe 12" x 12"
Raffila Millgrove imagines it tasting so vanilla
Zen Arado: the photo makes it yellowish unfortunately
Aphrodite Macbain: I must go and wrap presents so I can mail them today.
Qt Core: as a kid i tasted a few rose petals from the rosebush just outside my bedroom window ;-)
Raffila Millgrove is trying not to lick Zen's painting. it looks so yummy. lol
Zen Arado: ok byee then
Raffila Millgrove: bye all. i better go eat some lunch.
Raffila Millgrove: ty everyone.
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles at Qt. Put some in your salad!
Aphrodite Macbain: bye all.
Qt Core: Bye all
File | Size | Date | Attached by | |||
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Dec 14.jpg No description | 226.77 kB | 23:58, 16 Dec 2015 | Aphrodite MacBain | Actions | ||
Zen's rose.jpg No description | 169.59 kB | 23:58, 16 Dec 2015 | Aphrodite MacBain | Actions |