2014.10.27 13:00 - Naming and forgetting

The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.

Bruce Mowbray: Just a sec, please.
Korel Laloix: In and out.. cooking.
Bruce Mowbray: np
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, druth.
druth Vlodovic: still experimenting :)
druth Vlodovic: hiya y'all
Bruce Mowbray: I was also experimenting.
Bruce Mowbray: Trying to adjust the position of my pillow.
Bruce Mowbray: to no avail, alas.
druth Vlodovic: comfort is important
Bruce Mowbray adjusts his typists recliner chair....
druth Vlodovic: I remember trying to get myself into the yoga position for a meditation - turns out it is fairly comfy for sitting straight without a chair, but only if your legs are made of rubber
Bruce Mowbray: My typist has been listening to RadioLab podcasts most of the day. (even when he went into town to do shopping.)
druth Vlodovic: druth Vlodovic: oh, what on?
Bruce Mowbray: My rule for meditation posture is to get a "restful" as possible.
Bruce Mowbray: Mostly bout memory...
druth Vlodovic: without drifting off :-P
Bruce Mowbray: loss of memory, limits of memory, etc.
Bruce Mowbray: I forget what else....
druth Vlodovic: any interesting points
druth Vlodovic: lol
Bruce Mowbray: Tons of them, yes.
Bruce Mowbray: an example, perhaps:
Bruce Mowbray: without memory, we would not know who we are. . . We would live in perpetual NOW and it would be hellish.
Korel Laloix: Heya
druth Vlodovic: hi Korel
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Kori!
druth Vlodovic: well, maybe not hellish
Bruce Mowbray: What's cookin', Kori?
Korel Laloix: Enchiladas... nice and spicy.
Bruce Mowbray: hmmmmm.
druth Vlodovic: I have noticed with cats they tend to respond to me the way they responded to me the last time we met
Bruce Mowbray: really?
Korel Laloix: brb
Bruce Mowbray: then your cats must have memories, right?
druth Vlodovic: so I have laid in a supply of liquid catnip to make sure my impressions are positive
druth Vlodovic: a weird sort of short term memory
Bruce Mowbray: a regular Pavlov!
druth Vlodovic: they remember the previous encounter but not the ones before that
Bruce Mowbray: Have you seen the movie "Memento"?
druth Vlodovic: not sure existence could be hellish without something to compare it to
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0209144/
druth Vlodovic: no
Bruce Mowbray: It's very well done.
Bruce Mowbray: about a man who had no short term memory, so he tattooed important clues on his body...
Bruce Mowbray: so he could refer to them, even though most of the time he forgot what they meant.
Bruce Mowbray: The movie works wonderfully well if viewed backwards.
Bruce Mowbray: or forwards, either one.
druth Vlodovic: have to look it up
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0209144/
Korel Laloix: back again
druth Vlodovic: wb
Bruce Mowbray: wb, Kori, don't I know you form somewhere....?
Bruce Mowbray: from*
Korel Laloix: Form is probably the right word.. smiles
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
Korel Laloix: Need to make my new AV  I guess.
Korel Laloix: Not that I am short of time at the moment...
Bruce Mowbray: One of the segments of the RadioLab program featured a neurobiologist who thought our memories were physical.
druth Vlodovic: they are going ahead with it?
Korel Laloix: I think so.
Bruce Mowbray: It starts on November 16th...
Korel Laloix: What do you mean physical?
druth Vlodovic: you think they might be non-biological?
Bruce Mowbray: actual brain matter.
Bruce Mowbray: you can activate a memory - or destroy it - if you know exactly where in the brain it is.
druth Vlodovic: I suspect the memories are a bit more scattered than that
Korel Laloix: I read a paper once that said that just the visual memories a 50 year old person has at the lowest fidelity would generate over 200 lbs of electrons. Not including the other sensory memories.
Bruce Mowbray: flashes of the movie "Sunshine of the Spotless Minds" - or something like that, starring Jim Carrey
Korel Laloix: SO that paper would I guess have suggested that they are not.
Bruce Mowbray: POUNDS of electrons?!
Korel Laloix: Electrons have a very very small weight, so that makes that assertion even more incredible or unbelievable, whichever you want to chose.
Bruce Mowbray: I didn't realize that electrons had any weight at all.
druth Vlodovic: depends on the storage method I suspect
Bruce Mowbray: There clearly seems to be a physical component to memory, although it is not necessarily located in a specific area.
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Aph!
druth Vlodovic: hi aph
druth Vlodovic: you can change personality by damaging the brain
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya! Sorry I'm late
Korel Laloix: I am not a physics person at all so I can't really judge that. But the point of the paper was that we don't have an understanding of how the brain stores stuff.
druth Vlodovic: and wipe memory with drugs
Bruce Mowbray loves Aph's shirt.
Aphrodite Macbain: Me too!
Korel Laloix: But you can also change the brain with behavior.
Aphrodite Macbain: Is this your new avi Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: no, not the one for the Nov 16th thingie.
Aphrodite Macbain: ah,
Bruce Mowbray: This is my "I am the world" avi.
Aphrodite Macbain: I love it
Bruce Mowbray: TY.
druth Vlodovic: I thought it odd that it hadn't occurred to me that you can make permanent changes to your physical brain by feeling a certain way for extended periods of time
Bruce Mowbray: Trying to get into global consciousness, you know.
druth Vlodovic: but I'm not sure why it surprised me
Korel Laloix: Needs more fish... smiles
Aphrodite Macbain: You are talking about the brain right now?
druth Vlodovic: memories
Korel Laloix: Yes.
Aphrodite Macbain: ah- they are stored in a number of places- particularly the hypothalamus...
Korel Laloix: You can detect physical changes in the brain from long term changes in behavior.
Aphrodite Macbain: the earth moves!!! (Bruce moves his earth form from his head to the pavilion floor)
Aphrodite Macbain: are we talking about caring or something else?
druth Vlodovic: started with memory, then went on to plasticity
Korel Laloix: Not sure.. been in and out cooking.
druth Vlodovic: and enchiladas
Aphrodite Macbain: the whole enchilada?
Korel Laloix: Well, two trays of them.
Korel Laloix: Maybe brain enchilada... ick
Aphrodite Macbain: yuk
Aphrodite Macbain: well caring + globe+ brain can all go together, no?
Bruce Mowbray: I surely hope so.
Bruce Mowbray: On the RadioLab program I listened to today, a brilliant professor of music had a sort of stroke and lost ALL short term memory.
Bruce Mowbray: so he was "trapped" in a perpetual "now."
Aphrodite Macbain: OMG what was it like for him?
Bruce Mowbray: couldn't recall what he had written from one word to the next,
Aphrodite Macbain: did he have long term memory?
Bruce Mowbray: and denied that he was the person who had written the previous words in the same sentence.
Korel Laloix: http://www.amazon.com/Vidal-Gummi-Br...eywords=brains
Bruce Mowbray: no, he had no long term memory, except for his love of music and his wife.
Aphrodite Macbain: How awful!
Korel Laloix: You ever seen that move 50 First dates?
Aphrodite Macbain: nope
Aphrodite Macbain: first dates with the same person?
Bruce Mowbray: sounds like Groundhog Day.....
druth Vlodovic: odd, you'd think that the personality and known background would cause him to want to write the same sentence over and over, in the same style
Bruce Mowbray: say more, please.
Korel Laloix: http://www.amazon.com/50-First-Dates...50+first+dates
Aphrodite Macbain: Maybe losing one's memory might be an educational experience! As long as it only lasts a day
Korel Laloix: It is actually pretty cute for a chick flick.
Bruce Mowbray: I recommended another movie earlier--- but also featuring someone without short term memory: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0209144/
Aphrodite Macbain: I agree druth. Theoretically the experience would be identical as would the description
Korel Laloix: I saw that one.. very interesting.
Bruce Mowbray: A well-done movie, to be sure,,, Momento.
Bruce Mowbray: Memento. sry, I forgot how to spell it. (!)
druth Vlodovic: "So this will be for one day only, right?" "For pete's sake YES, it has only, er, will be only one day!"
Korel Laloix: Erin made me sit and watch some horrible bland and while Sci-Fi thing that had a robot that lost his memory.
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
druth Vlodovic: unfortunately there is a way to have the experience RL
Korel Laloix: lol... I meant black and white and wrote bland and white.
Korel Laloix: Freudian typo
druth Vlodovic: just hang around someone with a stage of Alzheimer's
Bruce Mowbray: also sounds pretty bland, though.
Korel Laloix: Now it is going to bug me if I can't find it.
Bruce Mowbray: One thing that folks without memories do, apparently, is go into sudden rage... I know this is common with Alzheimer's cases.
Bruce Mowbray: It was also the case with the music professor.
druth Vlodovic: frustration I bet
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Korel Laloix: Not something I have ever dealt with directly for long.
Bruce Mowbray: He got very angry at people (including his wife) who tried to tell him that he was the person who wrote the previous word in that sentence.
Aphrodite Macbain: rage of frustration I imagine
Korel Laloix: Oh here it is
Aphrodite Macbain: snap druth
Bruce Mowbray: yes, I'm sure it was frustration.
druth Vlodovic: I find it is best just to pretend that nothing is going on, I mean why exacerbate an unfortunate situation?
Korel Laloix: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0667812/...?ref_=tt_ov_pl
Bruce Mowbray: no one would understand or agree with his position.
Aphrodite Macbain: I hate pretending
Aphrodite Macbain: Unless I'm in SL!
Korel Laloix: That was one of the issues in 50 First dates.
druth Vlodovic: the emotions are likely to last longer than the memory of being convinced anyway
druth Vlodovic: balance utility with all other factors
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- the hormones that produce these feelings circulate in the blood long after the synapse snapped
Bruce Mowbray: I think I saw the original of that one in 1964.
druth Vlodovic: so there is continuity of being, even without memory
Korel Laloix: lol.. I was -22
druth Vlodovic: I wonder if someone with Alzheimer's can learn new skills?
Aphrodite Macbain: certainly a continuity of feeling, which I guess is being
Bruce Mowbray: I was +22 !
druth Vlodovic: being -22 must have been an experience :)
Korel Laloix: brb
Aphrodite Macbain: very chilly!
druth Vlodovic: physical continuity without mental continuity
Aphrodite Macbain: I guess no one except us wanted to talk about caring again....
Aphrodite Macbain: nods... as in, "why am I feeling this way?"
Bruce Mowbray: I've learned that forming some kind of relationship in my mind -- especially a weird relationship -- helps me to remember things.
Bruce Mowbray: example?
Bruce Mowbray: I kept forgetting the name of my favorite gin...
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- remembering names is a challenge until you make associations with the name
Bruce Mowbray: and the liquor stores in three counties were out of it.
Aphrodite Macbain: Tanqueray?
Bruce Mowbray: for about two months....
druth Vlodovic: ack!
Bruce Mowbray: nope: Calvert.
Aphrodite Macbain: how awful
druth Vlodovic: lol
Aphrodite Macbain: never heard of it
Bruce Mowbray: So, when I finally remembered the name, I tacked on Calvino to the front...
druth Vlodovic: ask them to keep a note under the counter "if I come in describing this, look at the note."
Bruce Mowbray: and that enabled me to remember it.
Korel Laloix: back
Aphrodite Macbain: Do you think people forgot to come today? I must remember to put in a reminder the same day.
Bruce Mowbray: Excellent suggestion, druth.
Aphrodite Macbain: maybe put a photograph of yourself with it Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: another excellent suggestion.
druth Vlodovic: or do what I do and keep the old package of whatever
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Zon.
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Zon
druth Vlodovic: which makes me hate it when they switch packaging
druth Vlodovic: hi zon
Bruce Mowbray: That photograph thing is one way alzheimers patients can be helped to recall stuff, by the way.
Zon Kwan: heya
druth Vlodovic: my memory is mainly visual, which makes remembering names harder
Aphrodite Macbain: "see the name"

Aphrodite Macbain: I usually forget where I put the old package...
Bruce Mowbray: same here, druth.
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Zon- we're talking about memory
druth Vlodovic: but don't stare at the label or it changes :/
Bruce Mowbray: but if I visualize a scene with the thing whose name I'm trying to remember, that helps.
Zon Kwan: oh..someone has it?
Aphrodite Macbain: People think it's because you don't care about something when u forget it - not true!
Bruce Mowbray: (both visual + name). . . in some weird scene, action, etc.
Bruce Mowbray: absolutely not true.
Aphrodite Macbain: no one here has it Zon!
Bruce Mowbray: I forgot my wife's name once.
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Bruce Mowbray: (when we were still married.)
Aphrodite Macbain: omg
Zon Kwan: you all look familiar to me
Aphrodite Macbain: our brain dies bizarre things
Zon Kwan: have we met?
Aphrodite Macbain: also does
Bruce Mowbray: I forgot my nephew's name recently when I was chatting with his mother on the phone.
Aphrodite Macbain: lol Zon
Bruce Mowbray: my brother's widow.
Korel Laloix: Why do people care about names so much when they don't define us?
Aphrodite Macbain: you look different Zon - no longer like a Zon
Zon Kwan: oh
Aphrodite Macbain: good question Kori
Korel Laloix: I have legally change my name so maybe my attachments are less than most.
Bruce Mowbray: Zon sure looks like Zon to me.
druth Vlodovic: lol, i remember when my mom got upset, she'd often go through a list of all our names before getting to the person she wanted
Aphrodite Macbain: I find Ibecome my name
Bruce Mowbray: I also legally changed my name, Kori.
Aphrodite Macbain: Really Bruce? From what?
Korel Laloix: I think we chatted about that before Bruce.
druth Vlodovic: interesting, why did you two change your name?
Aphrodite Macbain: Was it to break from the past?
druth Vlodovic: (s)
Bruce Mowbray: from my birth name -- and my wife also changed hers from her birth name.
Korel Laloix: Well one of the reasons I change my name was being afraid of becoming my name.
Aphrodite Macbain: what was your name?
Bruce Mowbray: Neither one of us liked our birth names, so when we married we invented a whole new name.
Aphrodite Macbain: first or last?
Bruce Mowbray: I'm not going to tell you what my name used to be,.
Bruce Mowbray: last.
Aphrodite Macbain: kk
druth Vlodovic: ah, not your first
Aphrodite Macbain: How did you two choose your names?
Bruce Mowbray: after we were divorced, though, my wife went back to her birth name, and she still has it to this day.
druth Vlodovic: in the west we seem to identify more with our first name than our last (for certain values of  "the west")
Bruce Mowbray: We took three letters from each of our last names:
Bruce Mowbray: D I and K from mine and S A R from hers.
Bruce Mowbray: making a new name that literally meant "God Servant": Kirdas.
druth Vlodovic: Sardik is a cool name
Aphrodite Macbain: very original then
Korel Laloix: That is nice Bruce.
Bruce Mowbray: yes, I am the only Kirdas in the Western Hemisphere.
Aphrodite Macbain: Now you look like Zon, Zon (Zon changed into his regular red T shirt)
Bruce Mowbray: There are Kirdases in the Middle East, though.
Aphrodite Macbain: oh? Turkey?
Korel Laloix: I have a unique last name as well.. only one I have ever found.
Bruce Mowbray: also, "Kirda" is an extraterrestrial species on Star Trek.
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: (so make that plural).
Aphrodite Macbain: what characterizes this species Bruce?
Korel Laloix: Never could get a liking for ST.
Bruce Mowbray: don't have the slightest idea.
Bruce Mowbray: Will look it up....
Aphrodite Macbain: ST?
Bruce Mowbray: away from keyboard for a sec (Star Trek).
Aphrodite Macbain: ah
Aphrodite Macbain: I never liked my name because people kept shortening it
Aphrodite Macbain: People are lazy when they speak
Aphrodite Macbain: any people any way
Aphrodite Macbain: many
Aphrodite Macbain: sigh
druth Vlodovic: I knew a fellow whose first name was officially ten syllables, though he knew the first 30 syllables of it
Korel Laloix: Just change your name.
Aphrodite Macbain: tries to imagine a name with 30 syllables
druth Vlodovic: so did it change how you felt about yourself to change your name?
Korel Laloix: I guess it is much easier to do when your name is actually offensive to you vs inconvenient.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Bruce Mowbray: This naming of ourselves is fascinating. I went to sleep trying to think up a good name for my new avi.
druth Vlodovic: why, Kori, did you have a "white"name?
Aphrodite Macbain: In my dotage, I've grown to like my name
Korel Laloix: For me it was very life changing... set me free from some chains.
Bruce Mowbray: EXACTLY, Kori!
Aphrodite Macbain: chains being historical connections Kori?
Bruce Mowbray: I had exactly the same response to my new name.
Korel Laloix: Without going into details, I was a completely unwanted child. So my mother gave me a name that fitted her contempt for my existence. So getting away from that was like taking a weight off of me. Change my middle first, then my first name. But waiting to change my last until I find the person I want to spend the rest of my life with.
Bruce Mowbray: I wanted emancipation from my family and its ancestry.
druth Vlodovic: ouch
Bruce Mowbray: WONDERFUL, Kori! I say BRAVO to you for redefining yourself!
Aphrodite Macbain: wow Korel- I'm glad u changed your name. Did you feel better when u did?
Korel Laloix: It was amazing really.
druth Vlodovic: I knew a fellow whose name was chosen by a ceremony intended to turn misfortune away from his family, due to so many of them being shot
Korel Laloix: Since I never went by name,  it was not an immediate change for me.
Korel Laloix: But I knew it was gone.
Korel Laloix: I knew that bit of power she still had over me was broken.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, there's a definite gut feeling of change when one changes one's name intentionally.
druth Vlodovic: awful to put your own emotions ahead of your children's well being
Korel Laloix: Again, she did not want me, so I was irrelevant.
druth Vlodovic: sorry to pick at it, I just get angry at that sort of thing
Bruce Mowbray: [If I'm not mistaken, that putting one's emotions ahead of children's well-being is done very very frequently.]
Korel Laloix: The sadly fun thing though was when she found out I changed my name legally.. she was furious for weeks evidently.. lol
druth Vlodovic: lol
druth Vlodovic: yayyy!
Bruce Mowbray: YES! Which show me that you were right in doing so, Kori.
Bruce Mowbray: Yikes!
Aphrodite Macbain: serves her right
Korel Laloix: Oh I was. Was lucky to have a couple of lawyers at the place I worked that did the legal stuff for free for me.
Bruce Mowbray: One great aunt bawled me out for changing my name, but I just responded, "Didn't you also change you name when you married?"
Bruce Mowbray: That shut her up.
Zon Kwan: waves
Aphrodite Macbain: amazing that they responded so strongly
Aphrodite Macbain: byee Zon

Bruce Mowbray: bye, Zon.

Korel Laloix: My aunts validated my name change.. were very happy for me.
Korel Laloix: Validated is not the word though.
Korel Laloix: Approved of maybe. Not sure the right way to say that.

druth Vlodovic: supported maybe
Bruce Mowbray: I predicted that my mother would be angry, but she loved it. Only was glad that I'd retained my first name.
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Negafook
Negafook Resident: greetings

Aphrodite Macbain: have you been here before?
Bruce Mowbray: "validated" is the perfect word for it, but I really doubt that you were going for validation, or that you needed pity.
Korel Laloix: Another interesting thing.. when I was changing my names, I got a lot of advice from people in SL.
Korel Laloix: So another way SL has touched me.
Negafook Resident: this is my first time
Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, Megafook!
Korel Laloix: Osiyo Nega
Negafook Resident: thank you
Bruce Mowbray: Negafook. sry.
Negafook Resident: hehehehe
Negafook Resident: not to worry
Aphrodite Macbain: We usually meet her 4 times a day- we are just wrapping up here
Korel Laloix: Welcome
Negafook Resident: oh, okay
Negafook Resident: my bad timing, I guess
Bruce Mowbray: (my fingers need training. . . until they get the right letters into their memories.)
druth Vlodovic: np
Bruce Mowbray: Have you noticed that your fingers have memories of their own, apparently?
Bruce Mowbray: like riding a bicycle?
Negafook Resident: say what?
Bruce Mowbray listens.
druth Vlodovic: it can be hard to do important things, until you get moral support from some source
Korel Laloix: He is having a bad typing day.
Aphrodite Macbain: Negafook,  the conversations here are recorded on a wiki. Are you OK with your comments being recorded on a wiki Begafook?
Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce Mowbray: you too, Aph!
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....

Korel Laloix: I was sure I was going to do it, but choosing the new names was the tricky part.
Negafook Resident: what are you asking me, Aph?
Bruce Mowbray: NNNNNNegafook!
Korel Laloix: These chats are recorded in text.
Aphrodite Macbain: are you OK with what you say being recorded and put on a public wiki Negafook?
Bruce Mowbray: (not Megafook or Begafook....)
Negafook Resident: oh, I see. sure.
Korel Laloix smiles
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: whew!
druth Vlodovic: https://wiki.playasbeing.org/
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks :-)
Korel Laloix: Are you new to SL? Or just a new Avatar Nega?
Aphrodite Macbain: sorry, I am managing a few IMS at once.
druth Vlodovic: the spirit of the North Wind and storms
Negafook Resident: I wasn't certain what you meant before. I contribute to several wikis outside of SL and I couldn't see the connection
Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Negafook.
Negafook Resident: actually this is embarrassing but I have to leave, sorry, RL is nagging at me
Aphrodite Macbain: He is one day old.....
Aphrodite Macbain: or she....
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now. Come back when you can!
Korel Laloix: No worries. Great to meet you though.
Negafook Resident: what time should I come? when do you start here?
druth Vlodovic: ok, we meet every four hours, so i hope to see you again
Bruce Mowbray: 
druth Vlodovic: 1 and 7 am and pm
Negafook Resident: noted, thank you
Negafook Resident: bye for now
Bruce Mowbray: Bye!
Aphrodite Macbain: we meet at 1pm, 7pm 1am and 7 am
Aphrodite Macbain: byee
Bruce Mowbray: (How to teach an arm-less avi to wave...
Bruce Mowbray: I really miss not being able to wave.
Korel Laloix: Then go back to the old Bruce.
Korel Laloix: That or add antlers and hands to your present one.
Mickorod Renard: hi
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Mick
Aphrodite Macbain: welcome.
Mickorod Renard: :)
Korel Laloix: Osiyo
druth Vlodovic: hi mick
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm afraid I must abandon you all
Mickorod Renard: oops,  was that the silent bit
Mickorod Renard: bye Aph
druth Vlodovic: there, if that doesn't work I can give you snowballs to throw at people instead
druth Vlodovic: ttfn aph
Mickorod Renard: nice seeing ya
Korel Laloix: Ciao
Aphrodite Macbain: byee
Korel Laloix: brb.. oven
Mickorod Renard: am now in India
Mickorod Renard: he he
Bruce Mowbray: Mumbai!
Mickorod Renard: yes
Bruce Mowbray: 
Bruce Mowbray: AMAZING!
Mickorod Renard: its sort of 3 ish in the morning I think
druth Vlodovic: now I'm stuck, i want to know how Korel chose her name but how do i do that without asking what it is?
Korel Laloix: back in a bit
druth Vlodovic: hb
Mickorod Renard: you mean her new avi name?
Mickorod Renard: for mine I just thought of something I may remember
druth Vlodovic: we were discussing names earlier, Korel changed her name legally IRL
Bruce Mowbray: As I understood it, Kori did not choose her name. The elder women chose it for her, in a naming ceremony. Although I don't know the details and have no right to know them.
Mickorod Renard: Oh I see
Bruce Mowbray: No, I was referring to her RL name, which I don't know and have no need to know.
druth Vlodovic: oh, my SL name has a bunch of meanings, which is neat, it's original meaning is "there's got to be something that isn't taken!"
Bruce Mowbray: !!
druth Vlodovic: ah, I should go cook supper
druth Vlodovic: good to see you again Bruce
druth Vlodovic: I have a long floppy one in here somewhere i thought your other av could use for waving
druth Vlodovic: ttfn
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, druth!