2015.08.27 13:00 - Dream Session: Aphantasia and its Opposite

The Guardian for this meeting was Mickorod Renard...

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Eliza
Mickorod Renard: sorry I missed last week
Eliza Madrigal: no worries
Mickorod Renard: I totally lost what day it was
Eliza Madrigal: happened to a few last week
Eliza Madrigal: must have been something in the air :)
Mickorod Renard: he he

Mickorod Renard: so, have you thought more about another session?
Eliza Madrigal: need to get through the next few weeks
Mickorod Renard: like what we chatted about
Mickorod Renard: ok
Mickorod Renard: have you a few things to sort?
Eliza Madrigal: possible hurricane monday, school started up again so early rising, younger daughter moving back in...
Eliza Madrigal: has been eventful in my world :)
Mickorod Renard: wow
Mickorod Renard: lots on your plate
Eliza Madrigal nods...
Mickorod Renard: school here doesnt start until september
Eliza Madrigal: in one way it is really no different than most of the time - comings and goings and blowings through

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: late this year too..something like the 8th
Eliza Madrigal: It started a month ago in many parts of the country, so we're sort of late actually
Mickorod Renard: yes, thats the way of things,,just sometimes its something diferent
Eliza Madrigal nods...
Eliza Madrigal: and decided to sign the lease and stay in this apartment another year
Eliza Madrigal: which I'd hoped not to do
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :)
Mickorod Renard: sort of disrupting the normal disruption
Eliza Madrigal: ha ha ha
Mickorod Renard: Hi Brucie
Eliza Madrigal: great way of putting that
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Mick and Eliza... I'm having a bit of trouble landing.
Mickorod Renard: why , isnt the aparthement what you had hoped for?
Eliza Madrigal: you are seated, to my view
Eliza Madrigal: It isn't ideal for walking.. this neighborhood
Mickorod Renard: yes, you looked good to me Bruce
Mickorod Renard: although you only have shorts on
Eliza Madrigal: and very plain, like a beige and orange labyrinth but less interesting
Bruce Mowbray: I keep going underground... still working on it.

Mickorod Renard: I like this pavillion
Mickorod Renard: who's is it?
Eliza Madrigal: just sort of blah, so would have liked to move but am happy daughter will come back for a while
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, Bleu!
Eliza Madrigal: I like it too
Mickorod Renard: it sounds good Eliza..having your daughter back for some
Eliza Madrigal: I think so :)

Mickorod Renard: I am going away for a week caravaning tomorrow with my 5 year old grandaughter
Eliza Madrigal: wow..just you and she?
Eliza Madrigal: hitting the road
Mickorod Renard: wife too
Eliza Madrigal: nice!
Bruce Mowbray: (This is exasterating... I'm going to the other computer. brb.
Eliza Madrigal: OK Bruce :)
Mickorod Renard: weather might be a bit iffy
Eliza Madrigal: not as iffy as here :) think of me....haha

Mickorod Renard: did you chat on a subject last week Eliza..here in this session?
Eliza Madrigal: rambled
Mickorod Renard: ok
Eliza Madrigal: could peruse the log?
Mickorod Renard: I have a small subject,,it was on the news yesterday
Mickorod Renard: it was on something we have touched on previously..years ago
Eliza Madrigal listens
Mickorod Renard: I could paste it into the log
Mickorod Renard: chat
Eliza Madrigal: OK...both would be good

Aphantasia and its polar-opposite 

Mickorod Renard: Extract from BBC article http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34039054

aphantasia and its polar-opposite hyperphantasia. How we imagine is clearly very subjective - one person's vivid scene could be another's grainy picture. But Prof Zeman is certain that aphantasia is real. People often report being able to dream in pictures, and there have been reported cases of people losing the ability to think in images after a brain injury.

Mickorod Renard: He is adamant that aphantasia is "not a disorder" and says it may affect up to one in 50 people. But he adds: "I think it makes quite an important difference to their experience of life because many of us spend our lives with imagery hovering somewhere in the mind's eye which we inspect from time to time, it's a variability of human experience."

Mickorod Renard: If you think you have aphantasia or hyperphantasia and would like to be involved in Prof Zeman's research he is happy to be contacted at a.zeman@exeter.ac.uk

Eliza Madrigal: I'm not sure I understand what this is?
Mickorod Renard: hi bruce
Mickorod Renard: I can explain
Eliza Madrigal: dreaming in pictures?
Bruce Mowbray: Whew!
Eliza Madrigal: thanks... will let Bruce read the note first
Mickorod Renard: lets let Bruce have the piece
Bruce Mowbray: excellent. TY.
Eliza Madrigal: so we're all on the same page :)
Eliza Madrigal: snapppp
Mickorod Renard: kk
Bruce Mowbray: Have you  given it to me yet, Mick?
Mickorod Renard: sorry ,,no Bruce
Eliza Madrigal: Hey Kori!
Mickorod Renard: coming up now
Korel Laloix: Heya
Eliza Madrigal: you are dressed for the pool!

Mickorod Renard: Hi Kori
Bruce Mowbray: ty. Got it.
Korel Laloix: Of course... Osiyo
Korel Laloix: Can't wait to get home and get in the pool... getting a bit more used to it now.
Eliza Madrigal: just gave you a note from Mick, Korel
Mickorod Renard: thanks Eliza..I tried but couldnt
Mickorod Renard: if I c
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: If I start to explain something
Bruce Mowbray: So, "thinking in picture" is way of representing the world . . . to ourselves?
Bruce Mowbray listens to Mick.
Mickorod Renard: some years agoI brought up in dreams something regarding this subject

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: it was that I discovered that my wife doesnt picture dreams or in fact visualize when reading books
Mickorod Renard: I thought it bizzare
Korel Laloix: Interesting.. I odn't either.. If I read something and want to see it, I draw it.
Mickorod Renard: but then my wife rarely can recal a dream and claims she doesnt dream
Korel Laloix: wow.. exactly.
Eliza Madrigal: this may be a key - how interesting
Mickorod Renard: but for those of us who do visualize it sounds unbelievable
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bruce Mowbray wonders how Kori and Mick's wife represent the world to themselves when they think about it - if not in pictures of that world.
Eliza Madrigal: it seems like something that could cause fundamental communication gaps
Mickorod Renard: anyway,,,I think Fox recounted this name for it

Korel Laloix: You don't need to picture somethiung to understand the relationships.
Mickorod Renard: but we didnt discuss it much
Mickorod Renard: this is true Korel,,its what this article explains in a way
Eliza Madrigal: I don't recall..must have missed
Mickorod Renard: no worries
Mickorod Renard: I may have dreampt it,hhe he
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: but from the perspective of dream recall I think it could explain why we all differ so much
Korel Laloix: brb

Bruce's Dream
[coming soon to PaB]

Bruce Mowbray: I had a dream last night that was a very vivid - though simple - picture.
Mickorod Renard: I did the very simple test and scored very high
Mickorod Renard: nice Bruce
Mickorod Renard: Have you brought it along?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I will give you each a nc.
Mickorod Renard: yayyy
Eliza Madrigal: how interesting... more white rooms...
Eliza Madrigal: and mom again
Mickorod Renard: nice dream Bruce
Mickorod Renard: yes, white
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Mickorod Renard: you had told me a while back you were going to look at your roof
Bruce Mowbray: white rooms that were complete barren of furniture or pictures, etc.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I have had major roof problems of different sorts since building this house 13 years ago.

Eliza Madrigal: what was the feeling of the dream, Bruce? resigned to the roof trouble? or mostly content?
Bruce Mowbray: mostly content...
Bruce Mowbray: little if any anxiety...
Bruce Mowbray: mostly just passing the time ---- bland, like the house.
Mickorod Renard: I had almost come to the conclusion that ..this is me thinking,,that the white rooms were a sign of some resolve
Bruce Mowbray: purity, Mick?
Mickorod Renard: yes
Bruce Mowbray: hmmmm.
Bruce Mowbray: (wrong house for me!)
Mickorod Renard: like,,settled or sorted
Eliza Madrigal: bland and purity don't seem to go together though
Bruce Mowbray: monastic?
Mickorod Renard: a lifting of pressure
Eliza Madrigal: wall paper is something you use to cover...
Mickorod Renard: mmmmm
Agatha Macbeth: Mmmmm
Bruce Mowbray: well, this covering had been weathered to the point of being thread-bare.

Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aggers
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, aggers. I will give you a copy of my dream.
Agatha Macbeth: Wocher

Mickorod Renard: when I have my parents(both dead) in my dreams I sort of know they are dead but just accept them
Mickorod Renard: Hi Aggers
Agatha Macbeth: Ta
Bruce Mowbray: for sure, Mick. My mother has been dead 22 years.
Mickorod Renard: its funny that I dont feel like rejecting them
Mickorod Renard: do we need to give ags anything?
Eliza Madrigal: is the feeling of waiting something out, or waiting time out?
Agatha Macbeth: Money will be fine
Bruce Mowbray: I gave her a copy of the dream.
Mickorod Renard: I can give the extract bit
Eliza Madrigal: you may want to share the earlier notecard as well, Mick
Mickorod Renard: ok
Eliza Madrigal: k, that's it then (sorry Aggers no cash)
Agatha Macbeth: Hm
Bruce Mowbray: anyway, the "picture" in my dream was quite vivid -- so I'm not like that condition in Mick's nc.
Mickorod Renard: in the article Bruce..cos I only gave a small part

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: but there are the extremes..each way
Bruce Mowbray: aphantasia
Eliza Madrigal: the little test is quick.... scored 35 out of 40, but the answer categories are also quite vague
Agatha Macbeth: Elephantasia
Mickorod Renard: thats the no visual..and the opposite
Mickorod Renard: hyperphantasia.
Eliza Madrigal: I would imagine those at the high scores are those who blur dreams and reality a bit, visually
Agatha Macbeth: Bless you
Mickorod Renard: hyper is where you have lots of visual
Eliza Madrigal: or a bit more
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Liz is hyper
Mickorod Renard: me too
Eliza Madrigal: ^^
Mickorod Renard: and Bruce
Mickorod Renard: I would guess
Agatha Macbeth: Hyperbole
Bruce Mowbray: I will take the test later... or should I do that now? http://www.bbc.com/news/health-34039054
Eliza Madrigal: and a half
Eliza Madrigal: yes its quick why not
Agatha Macbeth ponders half of Bruce
Mickorod Renard: I think its a very simple test,,and subjective to ones personal marking
Mickorod Renard: but one way or the other would explain why some of us dream so vividly
Mickorod Renard: and others not
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Eliza Madrigal: at least more of an inkling
Mickorod Renard: :)


Mickorod Renard: so,,the roof of the house..have you fixed the one in your actual house now Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: I just took the test: This score suggests that your visual imagery is more vivid than usual. Scores at the upper end of this range are suggestive of ‘hyperphantasia’: exceptionally strong powers of visualisation. About 23% of people score in this range, the highest of our five bands.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I fixed it AGAIN, and it seems to be holding well.... no leaks, so far.
Mickorod Renard: i would have suspected that Bruce

Eliza Madrigal: If I were to look at Bruce's dream psychologically I would say that "mom" figures strongly in sense of expectations... that how she feels and sees, or would if she were alive, life being lived, matters. the hallway is like a passage or channel open between the two still

Bruce Mowbray: and the squirrels are no longer a problem on the roof, because I cut away all of the nearby branches.
Mickorod Renard: thats great Bruce,,so roof fixed before the bad weather returns
Bruce Mowbray nods, listens for more.
Mickorod Renard: did the roof present some anxiety prior to you fixing it?
Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes, the roof in real life, tht is.
Bruce Mowbray: (not in the dream, obviously.)
Eliza Madrigal: it seems like she still keeps you company, and you still hear her thoughts, which makes sense when one spends a lot of time alone and therefore inwardly
Mickorod Renard: thats great,,I would think that the dream then,,was white in so much that your real roof is now sorted
Bruce Mowbray: In real life, one of the first things I learned in childhood was to consider my mother's needs and wishes before thinking of my own.... and that continued into young adulthood for me... so maybe I'm still working some of that out through dreams.
Eliza Madrigal: that makes a great deal sense
Mickorod Renard: yes
Eliza Madrigal: and in the dream you are accepting that she will have to 'deal'
Bruce Mowbray: It seems to become less and less important to me (in dreams) what she wants or feels.
Eliza Madrigal: a bit :)
Eliza Madrigal nods....
Bruce Mowbray nods, agrees with Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: but there is no anger there , plus, she does have a separate room
Bruce Mowbray: nope, no anger -- now.

Mickorod Renard: yor Mum could now represent the more vulnerable side of yourself ,,the side that maybe you dont recognise
Bruce Mowbray listens very carefully for more from Mick.
Mickorod Renard: and in that way,,you in the dream,,were considering the importance of fixing the roof
Eliza Madrigal: mmm
Bruce Mowbray: "fixing the roof" meaning working on my vulnerability?
Mickorod Renard: for your own needs now you are no spring chicken
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yikes!
Bruce Mowbray: cluck cluck --- no more peep peep.
Eliza Madrigal: being okay with some vulnerability
Mickorod Renard: i was thinking,,more like,,you wouldnt want your mum cold and wet
Bruce Mowbray: Maybe I'm completely misreading myself, but I feel I've commonly put myself in vulnerable positions -- perhaps to a fault.
Eliza Madrigal: can't help thinking about the vehicle with the open floor
Mickorod Renard: but now,,as we are all getting older,,we dont want to get cold or wet now either
Bruce Mowbray: why would I do that if I were not comfortable with being vulnerable?
Bruce Mowbray: The vehicle -- with the square opening behind the driver's seat --- through which I climbed to where my mother was driving?
Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes...
Mickorod Renard: maybe its telling you to be more carful Bruce
Eliza Madrigal: I keep imposing that hole in the floor!
Mickorod Renard: careful
Bruce Mowbray: yeppers, a powerful and highly pictorial dream, to be sure.
Mickorod Renard: he he
Bruce Mowbray: he he.
Bruce Mowbray: don't fall through, Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: er Alice

Bruce Mowbray: btw, were you anywhere near that exploding house in Miami today?
Mickorod Renard: yikes
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think so.... was an exploding house down the street from me a few years ago though....
Bruce Mowbray: I saw it on CBS news.
Bruce Mowbray: thought you might be near that.
Eliza Madrigal: people seem to think they can keep all sorts of labs and groweries in these huge mansions
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha.
Bruce Mowbray: Yikes!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I don't have regular news but I'll look it up

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: look for Miami explosion....
Eliza Madrigal: sounds like a band
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/food-tru...xplodes-miami/
Bruce Mowbray: it was a food truck.... not a house, sry.
Eliza Madrigal: hm, seeing in Sarasota one that killed one person...
Eliza Madrigal: "chemical in nature"
Bruce Mowbray: some nearby homes suffered minor damage.
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe it was an alchemist
Bruce Mowbray: a major debris field, though.

Mickorod Renard: I was just thinking of the last dream I had of my dad....I recall that he was driving but had gotten worked up over something,,I had to stroke his neck and calm him down

Bruce Mowbray listens.
Eliza Madrigal: sweet image, Mick
Bruce Mowbray: nods. Watched TRANSCENDENT MAN today again, about Kurzwei wanting to bring his father back to life...
Bruce Mowbray: and working to do exactly that.
Mickorod Renard: As I now look at that..I feel like I was addressing my own tendancy these days to let things bother me
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Eliza Madrigal: I'd like to go back and make a father robot to help raise me :)
Bruce Mowbray: hmmmm.
Agatha Macbeth: Does not compute
Mickorod Renard: so I wonder whether the parents are just our own selves at later stages of life
Bruce Mowbray: do you mean our parents in dreams, Mick?
Mickorod Renard: yes
Bruce Mowbray: Personally, I feel quite distanced (emotionally) from both of my parents.
Mickorod Renard: me too in a way
Bruce Mowbray: in dreams they seem to be entirely different - and individual - persons, not connected to me , except in the same space....
Mickorod Renard: i fought all my life to not become like my dad

Bruce Mowbray: Well, my dad died when I was just 19, so my struggle to be unlike him didn't last that long.
Bruce Mowbray: Curiously, though, no one else in my family ever mentioned our father after he died, unless I brought it up -- and then they were uncomfortable.
Bruce Mowbray: My mom didn't mention him again until she died...
Mickorod Renard: well, that in a way Bruce was what i felt myself in my dreams,,seeing your dead parents in a dream should make me feel the loss and warmth of meeting up again,,but no, they are just character playing
Bruce Mowbray: yes, exactly the same for me, mick.
Eliza Madrigal: I dreamed that my mom died once, and it was very liberating, and then I felt guilty for feeling so liberated by it... but I think it has to do with self-censorship
Bruce Mowbray: There may still be some "uncooked seeds" there for me - regarding my mom, especially.
Mickorod Renard: I faught all the time with my dad,,and I would argue that black was white just so as not to agree with him
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully to Mick and Liz.

Eliza Madrigal: previous generations thought that was the best way to raise tough boys didn't they?
Eliza Madrigal: fighting with them?
Agatha Macbeth listens carefully to everybody
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Mickorod Renard: maybe
Eliza Madrigal: not sure how many gentle dads I encountered among friends and other families growing up
Bruce Mowbray: Dad never fought with any of us.... but he was very clearly the dictator of the household.
Mickorod Renard: I think he was worried I would become a pansy
Agatha Macbeth: Ooh
Eliza Madrigal nods... prevailing thinking in previous times... keep a distance/etc
Eliza Madrigal: don't show too much approval because you weaken them in the world
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm.

Mickorod Renard: I am too soft
Agatha Macbeth: Mick the big softie
Eliza Madrigal: that's why you're allowed and needed to play with grandchild ^^
Bruce Mowbray: I think both of my parents were far too self-centered to worry much about whether we turned into pansies.
Mickorod Renard: :)
Mickorod Renard: the more I think about it the more dificult it is to define the right way to be a parent
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Bruce Mowbray: It was only important that as a family we put on a happy face for the friends and neighbors. (Typical of families with alcoholics in them.)
Eliza Madrigal: but everyone thinks they know :)
Eliza Madrigal: ah Bruce, nods
Mickorod Renard: but Bruce, its a fine thing that you cared for your Mum

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Oh, I loved both of my parents very much.
Bruce Mowbray: and still do.
Agatha Macbeth: Dolly
Eliza Madrigal: brb
Bruce Mowbray: Dahli ?
Mickorod Renard: so Ags, have you took the test?
Agatha Macbeth: Salvador?
Agatha Macbeth: You mean an IQ test?
Bruce Mowbray: Here's the link aggers:
Agatha Macbeth: It proved negative
Mickorod Renard: I would be interested how you do in the test on the link in the notecard

Eliza Madrigal: woke son from nap and he said "Oh, I forgot I went to sleep!" hahha
Mickorod Renard: he he
Agatha Macbeth: Forgot what?
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34039054
Eliza Madrigal: that he went to sleep :P
Agatha Macbeth: How can you forget that?
Mickorod Renard: the reason I am interested Ags is that you dont dream as we do
Bruce Mowbray: I've done that too, Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: funny thinking
Eliza Madrigal: am interested to know too Agatha
Bruce Mowbray: Harder to forget that you've wakened up.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: I was looking after an 18 month old earlier and I kept nodding off
Mickorod Renard: but subconciously I was tuned into his little noises
Eliza Madrigal: nice, yes its like that
Bruce Mowbray: hmmmm. Very difficult for me to take on the responsibilities of being a parent....
Mickorod Renard: kept me attached to the present
Bruce Mowbray: it seems overwhelming.
Bruce Mowbray: I should be doing my evening mile and then scrape up supper. May you all be be well and happy.
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, everyone.
Mickorod Renard: it is,,but you just cant admit to it
Eliza Madrigal: be well and happy, safe and dry, Bruce
Mickorod Renard: bye Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: ty.
Mickorod Renard: take care
Mickorod Renard: thankyou
Mickorod Renard: for your dream
Mickorod Renard: too
Bruce Mowbray: Look out for exploding food trucks!
Mickorod Renard: he he
Eliza Madrigal: hah, thanks
Eliza Madrigal: inside of hurricanes...
Mickorod Renard: yeh
Mickorod Renard: I was in that hurricane Sandy
Eliza Madrigal: you were? on east coast of US?
Mickorod Renard: yes, but escaped on a ship
Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes they can maneuver around
Eliza Madrigal: and awayyyy
Mickorod Renard: it was a rough sea
Mickorod Renard: as I drove into ny everyone was driving out
Mickorod Renard: he he
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Agatha's Results

Agatha Macbeth: 32
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, quite high!
Agatha Macbeth: As a kite it seems
Eliza Madrigal: we were wondering if there was a correlation between people who don't remember dreams and lower scores
Agatha Macbeth: Probably not
Mickorod Renard: he he
Agatha Macbeth: Just a lousy memory
Mickorod Renard: well thats scuppered that idea
Eliza Madrigal: ha
Eliza Madrigal: hope Kori takes it
Agatha Macbeth: Achdung bak to ze drawing bort
Mickorod Renard: back to the drawing board
Agatha Macbeth: Schnap
Eliza Madrigal: you visualize when reading don't you Agatha...
Agatha Macbeth: I guess
Eliza Madrigal: might be quite different reasons for not remembering than Kori
Eliza Madrigal: who said she really doesn't picture, but makes connections

Agatha Macbeth: Kori doesn't like hugs tho
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe that's relevant
Eliza Madrigal: maybe she has more tightly defined hugging contexts
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Bless her
Eliza Madrigal: I like hugs
Agatha Macbeth: I bet
Mickorod Renard: I do enjoy dreaming tho
Eliza Madrigal: me too
Agatha Macbeth: So do the French women
Mickorod Renard: even though I have had some horrid ones
Agatha Macbeth: Horride French women?
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Mickorod Renard: never
Agatha Macbeth: Sacré bleu
Eliza Madrigal: oh la la
Agatha Macbeth: Je ne sais quoi

Mickorod Renard: well, I suppose I had better try and get my stuff together
Eliza Madrigal: me too... don't think son actually emerged from bed
Mickorod Renard: erk
Eliza Madrigal: and he has homework... sigh
Mickorod Renard: at least he has a good excuse then

Agatha Macbeth: Lettuce be lovers
Eliza Madrigal: :)

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Aggers....JV made that after a phone call with me this week

Eliza Madrigal: she is coming home for a while
Agatha Macbeth: Is Nobuspass coming too?
Agatha Macbeth: ^.^
Eliza Madrigal: and the people she has been living with hardly eat veggies so I told her I'd buy her all the lettuce she wants
Eliza Madrigal: well....scotch must stay with her dad....
Eliza Madrigal: house has cranky cat and puppy now
Agatha Macbeth: I like cucumber and cauli
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Agatha Macbeth: Raw
Agatha Macbeth: Le crunch
Eliza Madrigal: I like cucumber but only on its own

Mickorod Renard: this is getting all too green for me
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Mickorod Renard: nite nite folks
Eliza Madrigal: if you put cucumber into other things it takes over
Agatha Macbeth: TC Micko
Eliza Madrigal: night mick :))
Eliza Madrigal: sweet dreams
Mickorod Renard: I will try and get on next week
Eliza Madrigal: OK me too
Agatha Macbeth: On what?
Eliza Madrigal: line...
Mickorod Renard: I am camping
Eliza Madrigal: like a fish
Agatha Macbeth: Oh
Agatha Macbeth: Camping like a fish, hm
Eliza Madrigal: on a line like a fish...
Agatha Macbeth: Ah
Mickorod Renard: I did manage to link my phone to the laptop and get on
Agatha Macbeth: With lettuce
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
Mickorod Renard: byeeeee
Eliza Madrigal: ^.^ Oh good
Agatha Macbeth: Be careful out there
Eliza Madrigal: k.. bye Mick, Bye Agatha :)
Agatha Macbeth: Mind the farmer
Agatha Macbeth: Bye

Making a space for meditation

Eliza Madrigal: will try the meditation thing soon but after storms pass and excitement of changes calm a bit
Eliza Madrigal: was thinking before this session on thurs
Agatha Macbeth: Changes?
Eliza Madrigal: have to rearrange whole apartment to fit jv back in
Agatha Macbeth: Ch-ch-ch-changes?
Eliza Madrigal: and baby her a bit :)
Agatha Macbeth: Ah right
Agatha Macbeth: Another bed will help
Eliza Madrigal: I'm on a sleeping bag for a week or so
Agatha Macbeth: Goo goo
Eliza Madrigal: son is taking my bed, she is taking his...
Agatha Macbeth: Take up thy bed and walk
Eliza Madrigal: he's too tall for his... so mom will be on the floor hah
Agatha Macbeth: Shorty
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Eliza Madrigal: anyway, thanks for letting me ramble...
Agatha Macbeth: Don't get cold feet
Agatha Macbeth: You ramble well
Eliza Madrigal: would you be able to come to a meditation 12:30 slt on thursdays?
Agatha Macbeth: And about important stuff
Agatha Macbeth: Yes
Agatha Macbeth: Of course
Eliza Madrigal: oh good, that might work then
Agatha Macbeth: If I remember
Eliza Madrigal: was thinking 15 minutes and maybe 20 after a while
Eliza Madrigal: will send reminders

Eliza Madrigal: ok....here I go
Eliza Madrigal: (((Agatha)))) sweet dreams too
Agatha Macbeth: TY
Agatha Macbeth: I#ll dream of lettuce
Agatha Macbeth: Damn...all alone
Agatha Macbeth: Ah well
Agatha Macbeth: Back to sleep

^.^ sorry to pop away so fast, Aggers