2015.11.09 07:00 - Submission, Compassion, Ashram Ruins, and Angela Davis

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal, filling in for Eden Haiku.

After session I thought about the radio snippet I'd heard before session, that the baby boomers median age is now 65 - many retiring or taking time to to do the things that have meant the most to them over the courses of their lives. I wonder if that makes causes like prison reform particularly ripe for fruition and change. The world is is changing fast, but one could argue, as does Bleu, "it has ever been thus."
(see Bleu correction in comments. I was backing up too far)

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: hiya Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hola, Bleu!
Bleu Oleander: how was your trip?
Eliza Madrigal: Very pleasant and quite busy :)
Eliza Madrigal: thanks for asking
Eliza Madrigal: How are you doing?
Bleu Oleander: what were the highlights?
Eliza Madrigal: highlights = nice company and good food, all the yellow leaves in Central Park
Eliza Madrigal: so many dogs everywhere!
Bleu Oleander: Central Park is beautiful this time of year
Eliza Madrigal laughs. I know I noticed the dogs before, but not like this
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Bleu Oleander: many dogs :)
Eliza Madrigal: It really is. My legs are aching terribly but it was worth it
Bleu Oleander: did you cover the whole park?
Eliza Madrigal: did visit the MET, and ancient Egypt exhibition
Bleu Oleander: fabulous isn't it?
Eliza Madrigal: all but the north east part
Bleu Oleander: I love the MET

Eliza Madrigal: I love the crocodile god... spent a bit of time with him

Sobek Shedeti 

Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eliza Madrigal: I thought of going to the holocaust museum... have never been to this one
Eliza Madrigal: but maybe next time
Bleu Oleander: too much to see!
Eliza Madrigal: I only had a few hours so I visited a few favorites that I visit each time and then a few new
Eliza Madrigal: have to go back I guess :)
Bleu Oleander: yep!
Eliza Madrigal: would love to overlap with you sometime
Bleu Oleander: we're going in May I think
Bleu Oleander: just now starting to plan
Eliza Madrigal: decided not to go for holidays?
Bleu Oleander: may slip in over the holidays too
Eliza Madrigal: ah :)
Bleu Oleander: not sure yet
Bleu Oleander: old dog issues
Eliza Madrigal nods... makes sense
Bleu Oleander: hard to leave him
Eliza Madrigal: :(
Bleu Oleander: but hard to miss family too
Eliza Madrigal: George was so wonderful when I got back. It took him a second then he was crying and jumping. I was so tired but that felt so good
Eliza Madrigal: Must be nice to enjoy family that way :)))
Bleu Oleander: it is :)

Eliza Madrigal: does everyone come to same spot on holidays?
Eliza Madrigal: or I forget if you are the only one distant
Bleu Oleander: my whole family is centered there so yes
Eliza Madrigal: ah
Eliza Madrigal: do they care to adopt?
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Bleu Oleander: i'm the only outsider ha!
Eliza Madrigal: I forgot to have NY relatives
Bleu Oleander: hehe

Eliza Madrigal: I was walking around and thinking that CP felt like the "gods realm" in buddhism
Eliza Madrigal: everyone seemed so beautiful and together
Eliza Madrigal: so healthy
Eliza Madrigal: running around
Eliza Madrigal: eating well
Bleu Oleander: probably closest we come to it :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))

Eliza Madrigal: What are you thinking about lately?
Eliza Madrigal: interesting salons?
Bleu Oleander: always
Bleu Oleander: just now reading new book
Bleu Oleander: Submission
Eliza Madrigal: hmm, listens
Bleu Oleander: controversial in europe
Bleu Oleander: bad boy writer
Eliza Madrigal perks ears
Eliza Madrigal: oh wow, reading description

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: http://www.amazon.com/Submission-A-N.../dp/0374271577
Eliza Madrigal: The novel, a political satire, imagines a situation in which a Muslim party upholding traditionalist and patriarchal values leads the 2022 vote in France and is able to form a government with the support of France's Islamo-Leftist, Socialist Party. The book drew an unusual amount of attention because, by a macabre coincidence, it was released on the day of the Charlie Hebdo massacre.[7]
Bleu Oleander: really a lot of issues
Eliza Madrigal: I'm hungry for this kind of material
Bleu Oleander: well its a lot
Eliza Madrigal: maybe I should push back All the Light We Cannot See, which was the next in queue
Bleu Oleander: I have heard that book is good
Eliza Madrigal: all last year people mentioned it, also the title is drawing
Bleu Oleander: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/04/bo...lim-state.html
Eliza Madrigal: but I'm interested in this description from Submission, very timely
Bleu Oleander: interesting review
Bleu Oleander: yes it is
Eliza Madrigal clicks and saves
Bleu Oleander: I have not read J. K. Huysmans
Bleu Oleander: but might
Eliza Madrigal: Against Nature?
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: a central concept of the book
Eliza Madrigal: oh, interesting... so maybe good to have both in hand
Bleu Oleander: main character is fascinated and studies Huysmans
Eliza Madrigal: I've never read Huysmans either, but a little Schopenhauer
Eliza Madrigal wonders if Eden is familiar
Bleu Oleander: interested in fin de siecle concept too
Bleu Oleander: I'm sure Eden would be familiar
Eliza Madrigal: It is certain that the countries of the world are going to have to face fears and find ways to do so
Bleu Oleander: it has ever been thus

Eliza Madrigal: what is fin de siecle? If I don't look it up, it sounds like finished cycle?

Fin de siècle (French pronunciation: ​[fɛ̃ də sjɛkl]) is French for end of the century. The term typically encompasses both the meaning of the similar English idiom turn of the century and also the closing and onset of an era. The end of the 19th century was felt to be a period of degeneration, but at the same time a period of hope for a new beginning.^[1] The "spirit" of fin de siècle often refers to the cultural hallmarks that were recognized as prominent in the 1880s and 1890s, including ennui, cynicism, pessimism, and "...a widespread belief that civilization leads to decadence."^{[2] (wikipedia)}

At this point an avatar arrives and attention turns toward finding appropriate TOS guidelines...

Rasima Petrovic: Hi all =)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Rasima :))
Eliza Madrigal: I'm not sure what timezone you are in, but good morning :)
Rasima Petrovic: yes its morning =)
Eliza Madrigal: cushion probably warmer than the floor
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: We are talking about books and things
Rasima Petrovic: Nice =)
Bleu Oleander: ☆ L✪L ☆
Rasima Petrovic: I notice theres different sets of anims ^^
Eliza Madrigal: quite a few
Eliza Madrigal: Bleu designed all of this
Rasima Petrovic: oh nice =))
Bleu Oleander: nice to see someone enjoying them

Eliza Madrigal: Are you reading anything interesting at the moment Rasima?
Eliza Madrigal: not that we're married to the topic... just what came up naturally
Rasima Petrovic: Oh I was reading PKD's Man in a High Castle ^^
Eliza Madrigal: literature is a great compassion-maker I think
Eliza Madrigal looks....
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, how interesting
Rasima Petrovic: mhmmm its an alternate history, if the axis won WW2
Eliza Madrigal: the book Bleu mentioned is an alternate also
Eliza Madrigal: Submission
Eliza Madrigal: but future
Rasima Petrovic: whats it about?
Eliza Madrigal: The novel, a political satire, imagines a situation in which a Muslim party upholding traditionalist and patriarchal values leads the 2022 vote in France and is able to form a government with the support of France's Islamo-Leftist, Socialist Party. The book drew an unusual amount of attention because, by a macabre coincidence, it was released on the day of the Charlie Hebdo massacre.[7]
Eliza Madrigal: (wikipedia)
Bleu Oleander: it has much to think about ... not finished with it yet
Rasima Petrovic: oh cool ^^

Rasima Petrovic: I think the media is way too obsessed with political islam
Eliza Madrigal: some of the right wing US sounds not much different to so-called worse fears re Islam
Rasima Petrovic: terrorism in the west is so minor compared to all of the other things killin guns

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: that's the main fear - some see terrorism as result of trying to control morality/religious behavior... but I'm not sure it is or can be confined anymore
Eliza Madrigal: Hi RIddle :)

Riddle Sideways: hi All
Riddle Sideways: any topic today?
Eliza Madrigal: we've been talking about books, Riddle
Eliza Madrigal: and had a little diversion for a moment huh? :)
Riddle Sideways: ah, Bleus other life
Eliza Madrigal: hey, not only Bleu reads! hahah
Bleu Oleander: BL
Eliza Madrigal giggles

Bleu Oleander: how are you Riddle?
Eliza Madrigal: yes how are things?
Riddle Sideways: things?
Riddle Sideways: stuff
Riddle Sideways: piles all around
Bleu Oleander: rl, sl or bl
Riddle Sideways: rl = late night run to airport = less sleep
Eliza Madrigal: :) ah, traveling now?
Riddle Sideways: no, was picking up
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Riddle Sideways: traveling job terminated
Eliza Madrigal: oh dear
Riddle Sideways: not really
Eliza Madrigal: something else take its place?
Eliza Madrigal: maybe better for health and family
Riddle Sideways: PaB :)
Eliza Madrigal grins
Eliza Madrigal: well... then not so sure
Eliza Madrigal: hhehe

Eliza Madrigal: I can never decide if PaB is oatmeal or ice cream
Bleu Oleander: ?
Bleu Oleander: love both ha ha!
Riddle Sideways: back to that point of view thang
Eliza Madrigal grinss
Eliza Madrigal: yes pov different each day, week, hour...
Bleu Oleander: yep
Eliza Madrigal: minute by minute during a session
Riddle Sideways: :)

Riddle Sideways: the naked one was back?
Eliza Madrigal: she is a different avatar
Bleu Oleander: never saw her before
Eliza Madrigal: she's been here many times
Bleu Oleander: not sure how I missed her lol
Eliza Madrigal: OK to be naked but not engaged in 'sexual activity" so not sure where to draw the line this morning
Eliza Madrigal grins at Bleu
Bleu Oleander: have to get out more ha ha!
Riddle Sideways: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Eliza Madrigal: we were talking in IM (Rasmina and I)
Riddle Sideways: oh, edit this log
Eliza Madrigal: and I guess she made a choice between her own thing and being here

Bleu Oleander: I think you could interpret TOS to say she was not moderate
Eliza Madrigal: no worries
Eliza Madrigal: we all learn
Eliza Madrigal: yes Bleu I agree
Bleu Oleander: personally I don't care, but she might offend others
Eliza Madrigal: not offended but also not thrilled :)
Eliza Madrigal: I had narrowed my window at first
Bleu Oleander: right :)
Bleu Oleander: interrupts the conversation in an uninteresting way
Eliza Madrigal: yes

--BELL--

Riddle Sideways: can't type now, old cat needs to be in face
Eliza Madrigal: it is sort of the same thing if someone has an animation they are more interested in than in group gathering and discussion
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: needing attention
Eliza Madrigal: :)) Riddle
Eliza Madrigal: thankfully george can't reach the keyboard
Bleu Oleander: mine can, but too old :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Reading and Compassion...

Eliza Madrigal: hm, so, offhand, is there a book that you can think of having read that brought out compassion?
Bleu Oleander: wow many I think
Riddle Sideways: hm, not right now
Eliza Madrigal: I think almost all literature would.. seeing through another for a while... but personally, deeply
Eliza Madrigal: I'm thinking about the question too, for myself
Bleu Oleander: different levels and varieties of compassion to think about
Eliza Madrigal nods... varieties of compassion...
Eliza Madrigal: I was thinking of the way that when I read Anna Karenina I expected my focus to be on her, but that by the end my heart was more wrapped up in another character
Eliza Madrigal: it is maybe, a different type of compassion than expected
Eliza Madrigal thinks

Riddle Sideways: ?question?
Bleu Oleander: feelings of compassion in literature go way back ... could say moments in Homer's poetry even
Eliza Madrigal: that's interesting... say more?
Bleu Oleander: I think its a very human quality
Bleu Oleander: theory of mind
Bleu Oleander: others are like us
Bleu Oleander: we feel for them
Bleu Oleander: when they are suffering
Bleu Oleander: different degrees of that for sure
Bleu Oleander: partly genetic, partly our own experience and what we learn about the world and who we are
Eliza Madrigal nods... and different degrees of projecting how we might feel in 'their' situations
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: but a writer can really put us there
Bleu Oleander: writers have long known how to bring this out
Eliza Madrigal: as someone else
Bleu Oleander: :)

Eliza Madrigal: :) I gave up on writing fiction a long time ago but I'm happy to see my daughters work at it
Bleu Oleander: I like to read it more now than I used to
Bleu Oleander: I only read non-fiction for a long time
Bleu Oleander: but now I love reading novels and poetry
Eliza Madrigal: I've liked poetry more at other times of life
Riddle Sideways: yes
Eliza Madrigal: but I read that Adams is enjoying a new wave of learning about poets

Bleu Oleander: I must go, but have enjoyed our conversation and distractions this morning :)
Eliza Madrigal: me too, wishing you a lovely day and many doggie cuddles
Bleu Oleander: nice to see you both
Bleu Oleander: doggie cuddles :))
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Riddle Sideways: thanks and bye
Eliza Madrigal: bfn
Bleu Oleander: bye for now

Riddle Sideways: not sure if current reading if fiction or not
Riddle Sideways: historical novels
Riddle Sideways: are they fiction
Eliza Madrigal: ah, who is the author?
Eliza Madrigal: yes for sure
Riddle Sideways: hahaha, nice sitting
Eliza Madrigal: that must be the tiny cushion!
Eliza Madrigal: it turned me into a weird shape!
Riddle Sideways: :)
Eliza Madrigal: if a novel, then fiction with more legroom
Eliza Madrigal: but usually very true to the setting and time

Riddle Sideways: the speeches of Angela Davis, is ...
Riddle Sideways: a point of view - spoken
Eliza Madrigal: ooh, that might be different
Eliza Madrigal: centered around true figure
Riddle Sideways: a play that might have been real, but probably fiction of several characters melded together

--BELL--

Angela Yvonne Davis (born January 26, 1944) is an American political activist, scholar, and author. She emerged as a prominent countercultureactivist and radical in the 1960s as a leader of the Communist Party USA, and had close relations with the Black Panther Party through her involvement in the Civil Rights Movement. Her interests included prisoner rights; she founded Critical Resistance, an organization working to abolish the prison-industrial complex. She is a retired professor with the History of Consciousness Department at the University of California, Santa Cruz, and a former director of the university's Feminist Studies department.^{[2] (wikipedia)}


Eliza Madrigal: sounds like something best performed
Eliza Madrigal: I'm looking it up but don't see the title as novel
Riddle Sideways: a book about the back story on every Lennon and McCartney song
Riddle Sideways: not by either of them so might be made up in places
Eliza Madrigal: oh no, Bleu just gave me a must-read and now you are too :)
Riddle Sideways: friend is forcing us to read Bob Dylan as poetry works
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Eliza Madrigal: that is probably a very good idea

Eliza Madrigal: I used to feel that if I were to learn too much backstory and analysis
Riddle Sideways: did not mean to
Eliza Madrigal: it would take away from the visceral enjoyment
Eliza Madrigal: but feel differently about most things now
Eliza Madrigal: especially if not analysis really but someone else's more knowledgeable take
Riddle Sideways: yes, who cares if Paul's girl friend of the time had an Austin Martin parked on a crosswalk
Eliza Madrigal: yeah...
Eliza Madrigal: just learned "Prudence" was Mia Farrow's sister
Eliza Madrigal: and didn't really change the song for me
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: although, I guess there is a feeling
Eliza Madrigal: of the time

Riddle Sideways: wait, wasn't Prudence a sheepdog?
Riddle Sideways: need to go look that up
Eliza Madrigal: read in one of the Sluyter articles that she was at the ashram...
Eliza Madrigal: http://www.huffingtonpost.in/dean-sl...b_6277770.html
Riddle Sideways: you are right, wikipedia says so
 

"Your life changed in 1967... even if you weren't born yet.

Detroit and Newark exploded in riots ... Hendrix burned his guitar at Monterey ... the friendly cop on the corner was attacking peaceful anti-war protestors ... the Summer of Love drew thousands to San Francisco, who then went back home to middle America and spread the seeds of peace 'n' love (and pot 'n' acid) ...

And the Beatles learned to meditate.

If there's a yoga studio in your town, or if your brother-in-law is taking a meditation class at the Y to lower his blood pressure, or if your Starbucks teacup has an enlightenment-themed message from Oprah printed on its side, you're living in a world that arguably comes out of that moment."

Eliza Madrigal: was just at strawberry fields in central park this weekend.... people still sitting, singing with guitars... some nice spontaneous moments amidst the filing through and photo taking
Eliza Madrigal: where did you hear sheepdog?? hehhe
Eliza Madrigal: I love that idea
Eliza Madrigal: Sluyter talks in this article about something you mentioned.... meditation teachings/teachers becoming a more money-necessary venture over time
Riddle Sideways: ah, "Martha my dear"
Eliza Madrigal: of course everyone needs to live, so good to take care of teachers 

Eliza Madrigal: ack...puppy is after everything now. I just got home last night and he missed me
Eliza Madrigal: Better go for now
Eliza Madrigal: but thank you for taking time to come in :)))
Riddle Sideways: ok, thanks
Eliza Madrigal: he took my favorite shoe....
Riddle Sideways: by
Riddle Sideways: only takes one

Eliza Madrigal: bye for now - if further thoughs will check comments after posting :)))
Eliza Madrigal: hugs