2015.11.14 19:00 - Is there compassion in that AI?

The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

Druth visited so we danced around ethics, compassion and teaching  AI

stevenaia Michinaga: .greetings Druth

--BELL-

stevenaia Michinaga: I didn't get a chance to review your email regarding AI
druth Vlodovic: ah, sorting my windows lol
stevenaia Michinaga: understand
druth Vlodovic: I was just speculation human thinking (dis)orders and wondering about their evolutionary purpose
druth Vlodovic: ans how that might apply to something that could evolve within weeks
stevenaia Michinaga: emotions aside, do you think if we are capable of making a machine that is "more intelligent than it's creator, we should and not expect it to treat us like we treat those lesser then we are?
druth Vlodovic: well
druth Vlodovic: depends on what you mean by intelligent
druth Vlodovic: but yes
druth Vlodovic: as for how we treat it?
druth Vlodovic: would depend on how our interests align
stevenaia Michinaga: I mean as far it"treat us
stevenaia Michinaga: I mean as far as it will treat us
druth Vlodovic: if we raise them to kill people then I suspect that is what they will consider normal
druth Vlodovic: if we raise it to wander around the forest then that is what it is likely to do
stevenaia Michinaga: we tend to eat those lower on the food chain, for instance, at least some of those we don;t pet
druth Vlodovic: in our culture
druth Vlodovic: some cultures have remarkable tolerance for dangerous animals
stevenaia Michinaga: so you are saying that these machines will reflect the culture that creates them?
druth Vlodovic: as an example
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
druth Vlodovic: what we are is our architecture plus our training
druth Vlodovic: build a meeting room as a bunch of separate one-man sized cubicles and you won't get much of a meeting
stevenaia Michinaga: is the wisdom there to create such an intelligence that reflect that?
stevenaia Michinaga: I can see where there is a concern such as this
druth Vlodovic: well, I doubt that the first true AIs (if it hasn't already existed) will be built for the purpose of being an AI
druth Vlodovic: we will build it for a purpose
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: so it will be limited by us
druth Vlodovic: hopefully we will give it fulfillment within it's purpose
druth Vlodovic: but
druth Vlodovic: if it can learn and change
druth Vlodovic: what will we teach it by example?
stevenaia Michinaga: would hope the right teachers are in the room
druth Vlodovic: kids don't do "do as I say not as I do" :P
druth Vlodovic: babies first lesson is to stare
stevenaia Michinaga: thre are always missteps, true
stevenaia Michinaga: let's hope they re not catastrophic
druth Vlodovic: are you frightened of the singularity? or of AI?
stevenaia Michinaga: concerned
druth Vlodovic: why?
stevenaia Michinaga: not sure we are capable of instilling benevolence as I am not sure it can be defined appropriately (if only by example)
--BELL--
druth Vlodovic: "If I were to live by the golden rule I would grope people on the bus." :-P
druth Vlodovic: what is "right action"?
stevenaia Michinaga: so you agree
stevenaia Michinaga: it;s a difficult task
druth Vlodovic: for some it is to kill their own children for dressing inappropriately
druth Vlodovic: others are less reasonable when it comes to the LAW OF GAWD
stevenaia Michinaga: who do we charge with educating the AI
druth Vlodovic: if it is a learning machine then the only charge would be itself
druth Vlodovic: hopefully
druth Vlodovic: toomany teach for purposes of gaining control
druth Vlodovic: question:
druth Vlodovic: if you were to start existing today,in your own body, guided and fed but allowed to wander
druth Vlodovic: what would you learn?
stevenaia Michinaga: if you develop an AI with empathy, it could become hopeless
stevenaia Michinaga: that is also a possible outcome of your wandering
stevenaia Michinaga: or hope
druth Vlodovic: do we teach it to defend itself, or others?
druth Vlodovic: to watch for danger or beauty?
stevenaia Michinaga: or defend our "way of life"
druth Vlodovic: unfortunately,in the end it will be about feedback
stevenaia Michinaga: each is a double sided coin
druth Vlodovic: which set of circumstances will cause it to promote it's own existence?
druth Vlodovic: I read a short story once:
stevenaia Michinaga: or protect ours
stevenaia Michinaga: yes?
druth Vlodovic: fellow worked at a job placement place specializing in "whole life fulfillment"
druth Vlodovic: gets hired by aliens to teach them how to infiltrate human society so they can takeover
druth Vlodovic: so he tricks them by teaching them to be good, empathetic, people
druth Vlodovic: and in the end has an attack of conscience because he knows they will never survive like that
druth Vlodovic: of course,since his teaching stuck they knew this and went willingly into oblivion
druth Vlodovic: I am worried about the drones
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, tough lesson to choose ot not to choose to teach
druth Vlodovic: I can see a future where we all carry ID all the time
stevenaia Michinaga: AI or man driven drones
druth Vlodovic: and they hunt down anybody who breaks their will, or loses their ID
druth Vlodovic: "controlling immigrants" "protecting society"
druth Vlodovic: I am not worried about truly intelligent machines
stevenaia Michinaga: in certain places they would teach AI that it is the norm
druth Vlodovic: I am worried about half intelligent machines run by selfish and frightened people
stevenaia Michinaga: there is no universal norm
stevenaia Michinaga: AI will come in many flavors, including the ones we don;t find agreeable
druth Vlodovic: what would prompt you to own one?
druth Vlodovic: or build one
stevenaia Michinaga: so we sill build more powerful ones to "clean that problem up?
druth Vlodovic: nothing cures a knife like a gun
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
dragontiger25 Resident: 's current display-name is "dragontiger25".
stevenaia Michinaga: an easy lesson to learn
stevenaia Michinaga: hello dragon
stevenaia Michinaga: have you been here before?
dragontiger25 Resident: hello
druth Vlodovic: I would go for a robot that keeps house and can cook
druth Vlodovic: hi dragon
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
druth Vlodovic: I have given up a lot of privacy for less
stevenaia Michinaga: I would want something like a phone book that can answer most questions, am satisfied with my phone doing that
stevenaia Michinaga: I am a fool and believe I have little to hide
druth Vlodovic: all hail Siri

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: sine someone already know as much as they need to about me, and I don;t know them
stevenaia Michinaga: *since
druth Vlodovic: I think that checking personal facebook accounts during the hiring purposes should be outlawed
druth Vlodovic: if for no other reason than that it promotes dishonesty
stevenaia Michinaga: I agree, I check after they are hired
druth Vlodovic: I wouldn't
stevenaia Michinaga: I have one employee, she does not have a facebook account that I know of
stevenaia Michinaga: facebook (and you) knows I checked
druth Vlodovic: do you need to know that their cousin has AIDS, or that they are against immigrants from certain countries?
stevenaia Michinaga: I would not care either way
druth Vlodovic: why have professional standards of conduce when they are judged on their personal lives?
druth Vlodovic: catch 22
druth Vlodovic: if you truly didn't care you would not have looked
stevenaia Michinaga: It actually reinforces that I do not care, but am interested
stevenaia Michinaga: will know what topics are in the realm of comfort to bring up
druth Vlodovic: what if you were building a multi-million dollar mosque, and halfway through, when resources had been committed, the customer told you to fire your pro-Semitic part-time employee?
druth Vlodovic: orvice versa
druth Vlodovic: worth millions to you, a couple thousand a year to the employee
stevenaia Michinaga: I would probably withdraw from the project
druth Vlodovic: at the cost of your business?
druth Vlodovic: the more we normalize professional interference in private life the closer we stand tothe edge
druth Vlodovic: image the 1950's USA with internet
stevenaia Michinaga: I work for all sort of idiots, I also don;t work for some, it;s a choice to make
druth Vlodovic: I don't doubt
druth Vlodovic: but it is an issue
stevenaia Michinaga: now how my AI companion would fair in that situation I am less sure
druth Vlodovic: whether or not they are idiots should neverbe your concern,unless it impact the work and the pay
stevenaia Michinaga: I suspect I would be fired
druth Vlodovic: AI's don't bother me, they will just be more minds put into the mix
stevenaia Michinaga: I think there are enough scary movies out there to explore the possibilities
druth Vlodovic: it is funny though
druth Vlodovic: automation
druth Vlodovic: at work we have old, limited machines that take a while to setup
stevenaia Michinaga: my favorite is Colossus
druth Vlodovic: but run like mad when they are going
druth Vlodovic: and new ones which are all computerized
druth Vlodovic: easy to set up
druth Vlodovic: break a lot and run slow lol
stevenaia Michinaga: lol
druth Vlodovic: colossus?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes let me find it
stevenaia Michinaga: Colossus: The Forbin Project
stevenaia Michinaga: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064177/
stevenaia Michinaga: best of intentions gone bad
druth Vlodovic: is it like wargames?
druth Vlodovic: or does the AI have ideas of it's own?
stevenaia Michinaga: not really
--BELL--
druth Vlodovic: "I have seen your enemy and it is yourself, so I will protect you!!!"
stevenaia Michinaga: more liek that recent movie with Jonny Dep where he puts his dying self in a machine
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
druth Vlodovic: you should look up "girlgenius" if you have time to read comics
stevenaia Michinaga: I'll look it up
druth Vlodovic: not deep,but it is funny,and has a part where the protagonist finds out that there is a hugely powerful computer dedicated to protecting her family
stevenaia Michinaga: that'll work
stevenaia Michinaga: bedtime for me, thanks for stopping by
druth Vlodovic: then her friend says "are you crazy! The best way it could protect you is to lock you in a steel room under ground!"
stevenaia Michinaga: yup
druth Vlodovic: then they have a bad moment realiing they gave it an idea :P
druth Vlodovic: 'night
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
druth Vlodovic: sweet dreams