2017.06.08 13:00 - Are you hallucinating?

The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.

morgano Bravin: Hi Tura
Tura Brezoianu: hi Mick, or should I say Morgano?
morgano Bravin: I dont mind, I must sort micko avi out
morgano Bravin: time fly's past and then I am logging in again
morgano Bravin: Micko avi is stuck in either a ruth or cloud appearance
Tura Brezoianu: does it feel different, to use a different avatar?
morgano Bravin: It does in a way, as I have had Micko for such a long time
morgano Bravin: i never even changed his clothes much
morgano Bravin: This was my wife's avi
morgano Bravin: he he , I was trying to accept the chat log but as this avi is not a guardian i dont think it can
Tura Brezoianu: I suppose I can, but I've never done it before.
morgano Bravin: its ok, I think Eliza can pick it up somehow
Tura Brezoianu: hi Aph
morgano Bravin: Hi Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello! GTSY
morgano Bravin: likewise
morgano Bravin: did either of you come on Monday?
Aphrodite Macbain: This is kind of you to host us Morgano
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: I was here
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bleu
Bleu Oleander: hi y'all :)
morgano Bravin: ah great..I came but ended up getting thrown out due to a power cut
morgano Bravin: Hi Blue
Aphrodite Macbain: awww
Tura Brezoianu: yes, I was here
Aphrodite Macbain tries to remember what we discussed
morgano Bravin: I am not sure what Mondays topic was?
Tura Brezoianu: rather free-form, after Adams' presentation
morgano Bravin: I think we skipped due to Adams
Aphrodite Macbain: it followed Rubble's presentation
morgano Bravin: yes
Bleu Oleander: mostly about Adams presentation and alts
Aphrodite Macbain: no. Rubbles was at noon
morgano Bravin: ah cool
morgano Bravin: so today is a free session about a free session..ha ha
Bleu Oleander: nice
morgano Bravin: any idea if Bruce is coming?
Aphrodite Macbain: No
Aphrodite Macbain: He hasn't been attending as many sessions as he used to
Aphrodite Macbain: hope he's OK
morgano Bravin: ok,,well i have not prepared anything mainly due to what we discussed
Aphrodite Macbain: There has been a focus on hallucinations and defining them
Aphrodite Macbain: and whether the feeling of deja vue is a hallucination
morgano Bravin: I am open to answering anything about hallucinations should anyone wish
Aphrodite Macbain: Hallucinations seem to have a very specific definition
Bleu Oleander: I think neuroscientist define hallucinations a bit more tightly perhaps than psychologists do
Aphrodite Macbain: things we "see or experience that do not come from the exterior but from within ourselves"
morgano Bravin: I recall reading once that a deja vue facility may be a design aspect we have
Aphrodite Macbain: I'd love to know how neuroscientists define them
Aphrodite Macbain: Are you claiming this session morgano?
morgano Bravin: It is a bit vague for us without some greater definition
Bleu Oleander: hallucinations use the same neural pathways as perception so are different than dreams, deja vu, etc.
morgano Bravin: well..i have found it impossible so far
morgano Bravin: due to not being a guardian I think
Aphrodite Macbain: where are dreams located Bleu?

(Aph claims session)
morgano Bravin: thanks Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: yw. Now I have to remember how to log it!
morgano Bravin: Bleu, thank goodness you have an idea about them
Bleu Oleander: dreams are not confused with actual vision ... on some level we know they're not the same
Aphrodite Macbain: I tend to believe dreams to be real until I wake up
Bleu Oleander: well, I have a very basic idea ... still curious and learning about all this neuro stuff
morgano Bravin: ah yes, the inside or the outside issue
Aphrodite Macbain: Often it's a relief
morgano Bravin: that's a good point Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: when I realize they aren't real
Aphrodite Macbain: Fears are played out in many of my dreams
Bleu Oleander: a real hallucination seems like it actually exists in reality while you're awake
morgano Bravin: I managed a short spell of being able to become lucid within dreams years ago
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm jealous- I blank out when I sleep. Reality is closed to me
morgano Bravin: I did have a series of what i guess were hallucinations..I can give a brief outline on mine
Tura Brezoianu: Whenever it occurs to me in a dream that it might be a dream, I always know at once that it is. But it happens only rarely.
Aphrodite Macbain: How did you do that morgano?
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Tura Brezoianu listens to morgano
Bleu Oleander: brb
morgano Bravin: well, to wake within a dream I did work very hard at creating..I forgot the word now..but markers to stimulate the awakening
morgano Bravin: was it a key..some use the back of hands
(Aphrodite Macbain: brb am changing to another viewer...)
morgano Bravin: eventually a few times I managed a short period it maybe 4 dreams to look around
morgano Bravin: At the time I was a little naive and wanted to know who the mysterious characters were that occupied bars etc
morgano Bravin: within my dreams
morgano Bravin: but no sooner had I tried to communicate i would wake from the dream

--BELL--

morgano Bravin: but when I quietly roamed about i could steer around and effect it quite well
morgano Bravin: But i think the key thing to remember is that they come from within one's self
morgano Bravin: Hi Aph
Tura Brezoianu: wb Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks
Aphrodite Macbain wonders what she missed
morgano Bravin: I have pasted in im the text missed
morgano Bravin: :)
morgano Bravin: but we all dream,,even if we don't remember
morgano Bravin: yet hallucinations are different
morgano Bravin: I had a couple where i was standing in daytime
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes- they are only experienced when we are awake
morgano Bravin: I must have stood still and been trancelike..I dunno
Aphrodite Macbain: although I feel gypped- I've never had an hallucination
Tura Brezoianu: me neither
Aphrodite Macbain: that I know of....
Bleu Oleander: I've had an auditory hallucination never a visual one
Aphrodite Macbain: I gather they are often brought on by stress
Aphrodite Macbain: what did you hear Bleu?
morgano Bravin: because of the content of mine I feel quite blessed yet also I don't really think I wanted them
morgano Bravin: what's an auditory one like?
Bleu Oleander: I heard my father's voice calling me
Aphrodite Macbain: wow
morgano Bravin: Hi Adams
Bleu Oleander: hi Adams
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Adams
morgano Bravin: Wow,
Adams Rubble tries to slip in quietly waving to everyone
Aphrodite Macbain: was he alive at that time?
Bleu Oleander: no
Bleu Oleander: it was different than just remembering his voice
Aphrodite Macbain: Then it must have been surprising- if not frightening
Bleu Oleander: I actually thought I heard it
Bleu Oleander: not frightening ... just shocking
morgano Bravin: mmm..like even hearing the resonation?
Aphrodite Macbain: Did he say anything of significance, can i ask?
Bleu Oleander: like he was in the next room
Bleu Oleander: no nothing of significance
Bleu Oleander: just calling my name
Bleu Oleander: but it sounded real
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: sounds like a classical hallucination
Tura Brezoianu: was it scary to hear it?
morgano Bravin: did the voice provide something you needed,,even perhaps just comfort?
Bleu Oleander: not scary, just surprisingly clear and present
Bleu Oleander: just came out of the blue
Bleu Oleander: or ... out of the "Bleu" LOL
Aphrodite Macbain: ..so to speak :-)
Adams Rubble: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Adams- have you ever experienced a hallucination?
Adams Rubble: I thought of them as visions
Aphrodite Macbain: what were they like?
Adams Rubble: both in PaB and both much recorded :)
Adams Rubble: actually possibly a third
Aphrodite Macbain: oh - cool recorded in a session like this?
morgano Bravin: this is what I find so weird- my experiences I have felt I have not been given anything tangible or useful to show the world..like lottery numbers
Adams Rubble: The main one is a bit involved and involves a painting
Adams Rubble: I had this in my art show but dropped it out
morgano Bravin: listens
Aphrodite Macbain: Did the painting appear real to you? Tangible?
Adams Rubble: It is the Pre-Raphaelite painting of Christ Knocking at the Door
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Adams Rubble: Pema and I both knew the painting and had liked it growing up
Adams Rubble: one day Pema was spending some time trying me to open up and answer the door
Adams Rubble: I was being particularly stubborn that day
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Adams Rubble: Pema missed breakfast
morgano Bravin: interesting subject matter, the painting
Aphrodite Macbain: deliberately so?
Adams Rubble: anyway he hammered away at me and finally i said I do not know how to open the damn door
Adams Rubble: Pema insists he did not get angry but I thought he did
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Aphrodite Macbain: how did he "hammer away"?
Adams Rubble: he told me that I did not need to answer the damn door but could just ask Christ to come in--he would know how to open the door
Adams Rubble: we finally parted after some hours

--BELL--

morgano Bravin: he he , I can picture the scene
Aphrodite Macbain: How interesting!
Adams Rubble: That night while I was laying in bed I thought of the encounter and decided to ask Christ to open the door and come in
Aphrodite Macbain: Nice that he persisted
Adams Rubble: all of the sudden the bed began to rock like a cradle
Adams Rubble: back and forth, back and forth
Adams Rubble: as it started to slow I did everything I could to keep it going
morgano Bravin: how absolutely wonderful
Aphrodite Macbain: wow
Adams Rubble: but it just stopped on its own
Adams Rubble: The session is in the logs and my account of it is in the logs too
Aphrodite Macbain: were you dreaming or awake?
morgano Bravin: its wonderful too that you shared it then and now
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Johny- please join us
morgano Bravin: is there a johny here?
Adams Rubble: Johnny left
Adams Rubble: I was awake
morgano Bravin: ah
Bleu Oleander: what part was the vision, the bed rocking?
Adams Rubble: yes
morgano Bravin: so when you had it, were all other visionary elements ie ordinary life blotted out?
Adams Rubble: It seemed to be physically moving
Adams Rubble: I don't understand your question Morgano
Adams Rubble: It was dark in the room
Bleu Oleander: so the sensation of the bed rocking? or visually you could see it rocking?
Adams Rubble: it was dark--I felt it moving
morgano Bravin: ah sorry, I was thinking of ..any other vision within the experience
Johny Malheur: hello
Bleu Oleander: hi Johny
Aphrodite Macbain: wb Johny
morgano Bravin: Hi Johny
Bleu Oleander: hi San
Aphrodite Macbain: Have a cushion
morgano Bravin: Hi San
Adams Rubble: Hello Johny, Hello San
Santoshima Resident: hello
Aphrodite Macbain: waves at San
Aphrodite Macbain: Adams was telling us about an amazing hallucination she had
morgano Bravin: have you been here before Johny?
Aphrodite Macbain: as was Bleu
Johny Malheur: I have once or twice long time ago
morgano Bravin: ah ok, we have a wiki that is open to public reading,and what we say here is generally posted on that wiki
Aphrodite Macbain: Is that OK with you?
Johny Malheur: yes, I'll save my bad jokes to IMs
morgano Bravin: fantastic, ty
Aphrodite Macbain: If you click that sign below and behind you, it will tell you a bit about us.
Johny Malheur: ok
morgano Bravin: I have heard some folk, especially religious folk, use the term rapture or teleportation when some hallucinations are had
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: that state of ecstasy that mystics search for- like Sufi twirling
Aphrodite Macbain: where they become one with the godhead
morgano Bravin: and I must admit, at least two of mine had me feeling like I had been elsewhere other than where I had been standing
morgano Bravin: for eg,all awareness of my physical environment had gone
Aphrodite Macbain: elsewhere? you were in a different place?
morgano Bravin: and replaced with another
morgano Bravin: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder why this happens to some and not to others.
morgano Bravin: what I mean is..instead of standing on a street corner I was in a flash in a room with someone
Johny Malheur: people have different sensitivities
morgano Bravin: for some time before finding myself back on the street corner
Aphrodite Macbain: with someone else?
morgano Bravin: I was with myself but the hallucination took me to someone
Aphrodite Macbain: so you imagined a person as well as a place
morgano Bravin: yes
Bleu Oleander: we all have different minds ... wired up slightly differently with our genes, experience and memories
Tura Brezoianu: was it someone you knew?
morgano Bravin: no, not at all
morgano Bravin: although one did explain who they were
Aphrodite Macbain: I guess you can't will these experiences to happen-like in lucid dreaming. They have to come unbidden
morgano Bravin: anyway, that's another story, but the effect was odd

--BELL--

morgano Bravin: it was so out of the ordinary and without warning
Aphrodite Macbain: It must have been unsettling
Adams Rubble: yes Aph
Adams Rubble: you can't will them
morgano Bravin: yes Bleu, and different effects on each of our minds from different events or traumas
morgano Bravin: I put my experienced down to some safety system within the brains wiring or hardware
Aphrodite Macbain: safety system? Like a release valve?
morgano Bravin: maybe or if one thinks of computers ..some reboot safety system
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
morgano Bravin: :)
Adams Rubble: system hacked
Bleu Oleander: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
morgano Bravin: he he , definitely
Bleu Oleander: soon possible hehe
morgano Bravin: but strangely enough, even though It wasn't a good time for me, those experiences were special
Aphrodite Macbain: I'll say
morgano Bravin: and I functioned perfectly even through diverse situations
morgano Bravin: I am sure this is how soldiers manage or others in difficult situations
Aphrodite Macbain: Johny or San - have either of you ever experienced hallucinations?
Johny Malheur: not really, unless alcohol is excluded
Aphrodite Macbain: Hmmm- interesting drugs and alcohol deprivation can create hallucinations
morgano Bravin: perhaps they are included..We are unsure where they come from
Bleu Oleander: sleep deprivation can make hallucinations occur too ... as well as solitary confinement
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: stressful conditions maybe
morgano Bravin: it could be that once the doors are open the mind has an additional tool?
Johny Malheur: when tired or using alcohol or otherwise sensitive one can be open for impressions
Johny Malheur: often distorted ones
morgano Bravin: I have not read further than where we are in the book,,maybe we get further insight as we go on?
Bleu Oleander: I must get going ... thanks for hosting this morgano! take care all :)
Johny Malheur: what book are you reading?
Adams Rubble: bye Bleu :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Johny - we are collectively reading a book called The Wisdom of Lived Experience
morgano Bravin: bye Bleu, thanks for coming
Johny Malheur: ah
Bleu Oleander: bye all
Johny Malheur: bye bleu
Aphrodite Macbain: right now we are on the section about hallucinations
Johny Malheur: who is the author?
morgano Bravin: access to it is generally electronic
morgano Bravin: have we got a notecard?
Aphrodite Macbain: Maxine Anderson
Johny Malheur: googles
morgano Bravin: Maxine,,ah ty
Aphrodite Macbain: I have it on Kindle
morgano Bravin: mine is on Google books
Adams Rubble: I must go to. Bye all :)
Santoshima Resident: bye Adams
morgano Bravin: bye Adams, and ty
Johny Malheur: bye adams
Aphrodite Macbain: waves
morgano Bravin: the book is not easy, but we are making our way through it and discussing sections between us as we go along
Aphrodite Macbain: Every Monday and Thursday
morgano Bravin: it's never too late to join us if you wish or just pop along and pick up the subjects from our chat

--BELL--

Johny Malheur: sounds interesting
morgano Bravin: no pressure
Aphrodite Macbain: It helps to read the book or the section we are discussing first
Johny Malheur: nods
morgano Bravin: or not he he
morgano Bravin: there are usually more of us and it's a little more formal,,but not much
Aphrodite Macbain: Time for me to get back to work...
Santoshima Resident: This might interest. otherwise, nothing to report on hallucinations: https://books.google.ca/books/about/...4C&redir_esc=y
morgano Bravin: bye aph ty
Aphrodite Macbain: Come on Monday at 1:00
Santoshima Resident: must also go
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye all
Santoshima Resident: bye
Johny Malheur: by all
morgano Bravin: thanks san
morgano Bravin: ok bye all
morgano Bravin: bye tura
Tura Brezoianu: bye morg