2017.06.01 13:00 - In hoc signo vinces

The Guardian for this The Wisdom of Lived Experience - Views from Psychoanalysis, Neuroscience, Philosophy and Metaphysics  meeting was Eliza, who also posted this session.  
 

Eliza was present but afk for a little while, cleaning up pistachio shells she had spilled all over the floor.  

:) This was a little of a 'lodge feeling' session, sharing stories as if camping together. Please scroll down a bit to find the beginning of session, and Bruce's recounting of of a personal story. Also to hear from Kori who hadn't visited in a while, with the best of reasons. 

Agatha Macbeth: Liz is just going nuts Brucie
Eliza Madrigal grins
Agatha Macbeth: Lumya?
Eliza Madrigal: a phone **********Applause!!**********
Eliza Madrigal: **********Applause!!**********
Eliza Madrigal: sigh
Eliza Madrigal: what a day! hahah
Agatha Macbeth: Answer that phone!
Bruce Mowbray: sigh.
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Aphie
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya
Eliza Madrigal: guess there are worse things than having too many pistachios and breaking into involuntary applause
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aph :))
Bruce Mowbray breaks in auto-applause.
Aphrodite Macbain: no such thing as too many pistachios
Agatha Macbeth: Having the clap
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Bruce Mowbray: [`·.] APPLAUSE!! [.·´]
Agatha Macbeth: What were we applauding anyway?
Aphrodite Macbain: pistachios?
Agatha Macbeth: Nuts to you Aph
Eliza Madrigal: the application for the phone morgano may use to arrive today
Bruce Mowbray applauds pistachios.
Agatha Macbeth: Adams :)
Agatha Macbeth: Woot
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Adams.
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Adams
Eliza Madrigal: IHi Adams :)
Bruce Mowbray: Superb leap, Adams!
Eliza Madrigal enjoyed reading interviews last night! Thank you
Agatha Macbeth: How cute
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes- I promise I will send some pix when I can
Adams Rubble: Hello everyone. I am just going to sit quietly and listen and will slip out quietly before it ends if no one minds
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Bruce Mowbray: np, Adams.
Aphrodite Macbain: slip out not leap out?
Adams Rubble: :) slip out quietly. hehe
Eliza Madrigal: of course not Adams, but feel free to jump in after Bruce's presentation. We're not in a reports day :)
Agatha Macbeth wonders if George has a nut allergy
Bruce Mowbray: Oh, I don't have a presentation.. just a few remarks.
Aphrodite Macbain: I love the discussions happening in email
Aphrodite Macbain: The hippocampus is a wondrous thing
Eliza Madrigal: me too, like when that happens.. overflow
Agatha Macbeth loves seahorses
Eliza Madrigal makes note :)

Eliza Madrigal zooms in on Bruce's tshirt
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Agatha Macbeth: Not a camp hippo at least
Bruce Mowbray sits quietly...
 

Aphrodite Macbain: what a strange hallucination you had in the kitchen Bruce!
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Morg/Mick.
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya MOrgano
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Morgano!
Adams Rubble: Hello Morgano
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Lumya :p
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, it was strange... but I was VERY stressed at the time.
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
morgano Bravin: ho all
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Cat.
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Cat :))
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder whether the stress triggered it
Agatha Macbeth: Catty ^.^
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Cat :-)
Bruce Mowbray: I am sure the stress triggered it.
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi everyone :)
Adams Rubble: Hello Cat
morgano Bravin: hi cat
Eliza Madrigal: it prompted me to think about embodiment

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: and modes of being
morgano Bravin: i am on a mobile app so will just be present and listen
Aphrodite Macbain: say more? Eliza
Aphrodite Macbain: cool Morgano
Eliza Madrigal: no worries Morgano, good that you made it
Agatha Macbeth: There's a lot of it about
Eliza Madrigal: just something I'm musing on Aph, but hopefully will be able to articulate eventually
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Raff
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Raffi :)
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Raffi.
Adams Rubble: Hello Raffila
Eliza Madrigal: but did you ever have a dream where you were playing out something, similar to sleepwalking?
Aphrodite Macbain: waves and smiles at Raffi
Raffila Millgrove: Hi Everyone.
morgano Bravin: hi raffi
Eliza Madrigal: after a field trip, I woke standing in my room helping kids get off a bus....
Aphrodite Macbain: yikes
Eliza Madrigal: :)
morgano Bravin: wow
Agatha Macbeth: Eh?
Aphrodite Macbain: just as well it wasnt the other way around
Eliza Madrigal: for sure
Eliza Madrigal: this may be it for today, but we could wait a few minutes if you like Bruce
Bruce Mowbray understands Eliza's hallucination.... perfectly!
Eliza Madrigal: >whew<

Bruce Mowbray: Well all I have, really, is a repetition of yesterday's email... so here goes....
Agatha Macbeth: A busload of kids in one's bedroom would freak anybody out

Beginning...

Bruce Mowbray: One of the questions I'd like to "sally forth" with today is, "Must hallucinations always be outward projections?" . . . as in, "Is this a dagger I see before me?"
Bruce Mowbray: Could one hallucinate inwardly -- perhaps an emotion, inward vision, weird notion?
Bruce Mowbray: As Eliza said above, things could get mixed and lines could get fuzzy. Inward forms of synesthesia, perhaps. Ideas could take on geometric shapes, odor, mass/weight,. . . or rhythm.
Bruce Mowbray: One of my recent "hallucinations" (if that's what it was) involved a sort of synesthesia, perhaps: I discovered myself standing in my hyper-familiar kitchen, having absolutely no idea where I was, trying to use a [non-existent] computer mouse to loosen the twist tie on the wrapper of a loaf of bread.
Bruce Mowbray: There was NO fear connected with this... only curiousity and confusion.
Bruce Mowbray: (I "escaped" that mental predicament by asking myself where I'd been immediately before entering the kitchen . . and then returned to that place to ponder the experience.)
Bruce Mowbray: Also, I know that hallucinations are neither willed nor intentional, but are they necessarily devoid of intentionality? e.g., Could someone hallucinate the faces of saints in toast after periods of intense devotion, worship, longing, loneliness, suffering, etc?
Bruce Mowbray: Apophrenia enters the picture ( http://www.azquotes.com/quote/805307 )
Bruce Mowbray: [done]
 

Eliza Madrigal: thanks, Bruce!
Aphrodite Macbain: not to be confused with Aphrophenia
Bruce Mowbray: yw :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: grins
Agatha Macbeth: Bleuji :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bleu
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :) We're just starting. Bruce just gave a recap of last night's email
Bleu Oleander: hi y'all :)
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Bleu,
Bruce Mowbray: (I've had other hallucinations, but they're not as weird as that one.)
Eliza Madrigal: what you mention about finding patterns is interesting
Bruce Mowbray nods.....
Eliza Madrigal: the Beautiful Mind film may be a good illustration of when it crosses the line, but prob most people see more of what they are thinking about... ie, shopping for a certain type of car
Eliza Madrigal: then they seem to be everywhere
Bruce Mowbray ponders seeing Aph's image in a piece of toast.
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Raffila Millgrove tiptoes out five minutes after arriving because the baby woke up and is crying.
Eliza Madrigal: aw
morgano Bravin: owww
Bruce Mowbray: That's just a hallucination, Raffi... ooops, too late.
Eliza Madrigal: what a good 'babysitter'...
 

Aphrodite Macbain: I think I know the feeling of recognizing patterns in things. I thought it was normal
Bruce Mowbray: I wish folks wouldn't say "JUST a hallucination...."
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Eliza Madrigal: like that Bruce guy did just now? lol
morgano Bravin: true. i think they are special
Agatha Macbeth: An extreme one in fact
Bruce Mowbray: I've been pondering how hallucinations could be "adaptive," as Sacks said.
Eliza Madrigal settles down and listens
Aphrodite Macbain: they seem to serve a need or purpose
Catrinamonblue Resident: slips away...sorry, headache that's not being helped by looking at a computer screen
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Eliza Madrigal: :(
morgano Bravin: bye cat
Bruce Mowbray: I think their adaptivity could be that they enable us to "see" multiple scenarios...
Eliza Madrigal: feel better Cat
Bleu Oleander: feel better Cat
Bruce Mowbray: and maybe prepare us for possible threatning situations in the future.
 

Adams Rubble: Do you make any distinction between an halluciation and a vision?
Bruce Mowbray: bye, Cat.
Bruce Mowbray: There are slight differences, perhaps... but also similarities.
morgano Bravin: i think thats true bruce..or even some safety mechanism
Aphrodite Macbain: what exactly is a vision?

Bruce Mowbray: Well, one example is Constantine's seeing the vision of a cross in the sky....
Bruce Mowbray: WHich caused him to convert to Xty.
Bruce Mowbray: and to convene the COuncil at Nicea.
Aphrodite Macbain: sounds like an hallucination to me- just a religious one
Adams Rubble: Joan of Ark and St Paul
Agatha Macbeth:In hoc signo vinces
Bruce Mowbray: which created the orthodox Xtn tradition...
Aphrodite Macbain: Latin abounds

Bruce Mowbray: So, his vision had consequences.
Aphrodite Macbain: He acted on it
Bruce Mowbray: Yeppers, so did Joan d'Arc.
Aphrodite Macbain: I suppose people act on hallucinations
Bruce Mowbray: sometimes...
Adams Rubble: a vision would be welcome
Bruce Mowbray: Macbeth did, too.
Adams Rubble: most of the time
Aphrodite Macbain: or Lady Macbeth
Bruce Mowbray: Yeah, Lady Macbeth.
Eliza Madrigal: they change outlook
Agatha Macbeth: Yes?
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Aphrodite Macbain: out damn spot!
Agatha Macbeth: Woof
morgano Bravin: maybe they are bridges of comprehension

--BELL--


Eliza Madrigal: I like that idea morgano, relate to it as well
Adams Rubble: yes Morgano
Aphrodite Macbain: bridging what things?
Aphrodite Macbain: creative efforts to make sense of things?
Bruce Mowbray: I consider hallucinations to be the mind's spontaneous "sallying forth."
Aphrodite Macbain: long tall sallies
morgano Bravin: sometimes we should know things but we are blonded by distractions
Bruce Mowbray: :)
morgano Bravin: blinded
Aphrodite Macbain: I like blonded
Bruce Mowbray: also blinded by habit... which hallucinations can break out of.
morgano Bravin: but then a higher inner knowledge seems to break through
Eliza Madrigal: seems to be a very wide spectrum
morgano Bravin: in some pictorial form
morgano Bravin: sorry for my interspersion
Aphrodite Macbain: It seems we can enter into a wide variety of states of non or super reality
Agatha Macbeth grins at Mick's interspersing
morgano Bravin: he he..may be a new word
Aphrodite Macbain: casting interspersions?

Bruce Mowbray: When I had legionnaires' disease and had been in the hospital for four days wigth a fever of 104, I had a hallucination that changed the rest of my life. I was really resisting all of the medical machinery - which was not finding anything - no diagnosis. So, during the hallucination, everything just "turned..." Including my attitude. And ever since that night, I've had absolutely NO fear of death or of oblivion.
Aphrodite Macbain: Your experience in the kitchen sounds like an hallucination Bruce. It was just a very short one
Bruce Mowbray: I think it was, Aph.
Bruce Mowbray: (a hall. I mean.)
Eliza Madrigal: the hospital seems a good example of an adaption
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, a perfect adaptation... which served all f the medical professions as well as it served me.
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bruce Mowbray: I am grateful for it.
Aphrodite Macbain: maybe they were called miracles once
Eliza Madrigal: I enjoy talking about visions, but not when I pressure myself to get others to understand them :)
Bruce Mowbray: I'm fascinated that Sacks said most people would choose not to give up their hallucinations.
Bruce Mowbray: I don't think they CAN be communicated, Eliza.
Aphrodite Macbain: I guess it's only us that can really interpret them Eliza
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, very subjective.
Bruce Mowbray: (like dreams... but even more subjective...)
Eliza Madrigal: I had a lot of visions when a practicing Christian... but it may also have had to do with age and 'freeing' from teen years' trauma, etc
Aphrodite Macbain: what kind of visions Eliza?
Bruce Mowbray: They say that hallucinations are fairly common during puberty.
Eliza Madrigal: I'm always curious about it and I wouldn't undo anything
Bruce Mowbray: me neither, Liz.
Eliza Madrigal: yes, like sleep paralysis is too, more common then
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Agatha Macbeth: Hag-rid
Aphrodite Macbain: "The Hag"
Agatha Macbeth: Snap

Eliza Madrigal: want me to tell a story about a meditation that turned into a vision?

Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Agatha Macbeth: Woot
morgano Bravin: i have had some silly ones in the past which are just silly nonsense...but when i struggled once in lifr i had profound ones that were religious and i dont openly tell about..some i am still tryong to come to terms with
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
Bleu Oleander: excuses herself ... puppy needs attention ... take care all
Bruce Mowbray: bye Bleu.
morgano Bravin: bye bleu
Aphrodite Macbain: tickle pupppy for me
Eliza Madrigal: bye Bleu :) (everyone jumping ship today, feels self conscious :)
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Aphrodite Macbain: listens to Eliza's story
 

Eliza Madrigal: So when I was about (late)18, 19, I would stay up all night praying ... and reading scriptures, writing...
morgano Bravin: i would need to tell another day perhaps
Agatha Macbeth: Oh my
Bruce Mowbray: wow.
morgano Bravin: wow
Eliza Madrigal: this was before I went to church and was given interpretations for things...
Eliza Madrigal: it was very personal
Eliza Madrigal: so one night I was meditating on the 'woman with the issue of blood' who goes after Jesus's garment
Eliza Madrigal: and I was her... following him, moving through the crowd...
Aphrodite Macbain: did you have the issue of blood?
(added: No Aph, but I sure had issues! ;-) 
Eliza Madrigal: then, very vividly, I reached him... and reached out and saw my hand reach the garment....
Eliza Madrigal: and then suddenly I was him, instead
Eliza Madrigal: I freaked myself out
Bruce Mowbray: double wow.
Eliza Madrigal: and stopped the meditation...
Aphrodite Macbain: I can imagine
Eliza Madrigal: because it went against everything I was taught about how to approach faith etc
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder where you were
Eliza Madrigal: I felt like I was being blasphemous or something
Adams Rubble: awww
Aphrodite Macbain: becoming Jesus?
Eliza Madrigal: I was shaking all over...
Bruce Mowbray: You know, the Indra's Net concept says that we are all connected... so perhaps you were BOTH Jesus, and the woman, and Eliza...
Agatha Macbeth: I doubt he'd think so
Eliza Madrigal: sort of... but really, seeing Jesus as a person
morgano Bravin: i also can relate to that Eliza..
Eliza Madrigal: like me
Bruce Mowbray: me too.
Aphrodite Macbain: we become the blood and body of Jesus during holy communion
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks :) now it isn't so shocking, but I would never have let myself see that before
Adams Rubble: very powerful vision
Bruce Mowbray: That's a fascinating tradition, Aph....
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: transubstantiation
Agatha Macbeth: Bless you
Aphrodite Macbain: or something
Adams Rubble: Very much like Buddhist traditions of becoming the diety
Bruce Mowbray ponders "Inter-Being" -- and the Flower Garland Sutra.
Eliza Madrigal nods nods
Adams Rubble: Eliza See, jesus See
Aphrodite Macbain: very mystical-
Aphrodite Macbain: like the sufis
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Eliza Madrigal: that's it... I couldn't really allow for it, nor tell anyone, until studying buddhism
Eliza Madrigal: and getting rid of the terror of being struck by lightning :)
Aphrodite Macbain: wonder why you felt that Eliza
Bruce Mowbray: In most cultures prior to 200 years ago, persons who had visions were revered. Now they're considered to be nuts.
Eliza Madrigal: the way I was raised Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: Thinks about St Agatha
Agatha Macbeth: 0.0

morgano Bravin: I too once was crucified on the same cross as Jesus and felt the agony but also his blood mingling with mine..it was larger than that and profound but i felt the merging too

--BELL--

Aphrodite Macbain: the fear of being struck by lightening Eliza?
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Kori.
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Kori! :)
Korel Laloix: Osiyo
Agatha Macbeth: Osiyo K
Aphrodite Macbain: wow
morgano Bravin: hi kori
Adams Rubble: Hello Korel
Eliza Madrigal: morgano.. wow
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Kori- tsy
Korel Laloix: Heya
Eliza Madrigal: was this during prayer?
Adams Rubble: powerful Morgano
Aphrodite Macbain: I feel jealous. My life is so boring....
Bruce Mowbray is experiencing hallucination-envy.
Aphrodite Macbain: lol

morgano Bravin: my real body was in pain spasm and no i wasn't religious
Agatha Macbeth: Your bear doesn't think so
Aphrodite Macbain: what does she know?
Agatha Macbeth: Honey
Aphrodite Macbain: he
Eliza Madrigal: that's really incredible... what comes up from (subconscious?) in times of need
Aphrodite Macbain: Kori- we are talking about types of hallucinations and visions
Bruce Mowbray: Yes! As if the hallucination were an answer to deep prayer.
Korel Laloix: Nice...
Korel Laloix: An answer to?
Aphrodite Macbain: Is Blub an hallucination?
Agatha Macbeth: Where is Blub?
morgano Bravin: yes...i had to overcome a n incredible pain mentally
Bruce Mowbray: Blub is definitely NOT a hallucination.
Aphrodite Macbain: floating around Bruce
Agatha Macbeth: So he is
Agatha Macbeth: WB

Korel Laloix: To me they are very different mental and spiritual things..
Eliza Madrigal: Sacks was saying that the visions one might have do usually correspond to cultural familiarity
Eliza Madrigal listens
Korel Laloix: And can you distinguish between a vision and an hallucination?
Aphrodite Macbain: how do you mean Kori?
Aphrodite Macbain: we are wondering whether they are the same thing.
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
Korel Laloix: When we lodge, or enter the shaking tent, or take San Pedro, that is more of a vision inducing event.
Aphrodite Macbain: a vision is an old-fashioned hallucination?
Korel Laloix: BUt some would call it a hallucination.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Bruce Mowbray also nods.
Eliza Madrigal smiles at the charm of Aph's question
Aphrodite Macbain: Do you believe it's real KOri?
Eliza Madrigal: nice example Kori
Korel Laloix: What is real?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: my bear

Bruce Mowbray: "hallucination" connotes that it is false... (delusion, illusion), but "vision denotes an inspiration.
Korel Laloix: When I deliberatly go that direction, I am preparing myself for something... so I pay attention to what comes my way.
Aphrodite Macbain: wonders whether she is hallucinating- now there is a green blub
Eliza Madrigal: so it seems as though you see it as a natural part of living Kori
Korel Laloix: But if you are just doing it with no structure or intent, I think it would just be a mind trip.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Kori. That would be my only reason for using psychotropic drugs.
Korel Laloix: Well, it is very cultural for me though.
Bruce Mowbray: (to have visions, I mean.)
Aphrodite Macbain: I think you're right Kori
morgano Bravin: i agree

Korel Laloix: Really, I can get to sort of the same connection at about mile 24 of a marathon....
Bruce Mowbray nods, understands.
Bruce Mowbray: "runners' high"
Eliza Madrigal: or like when you engage with something on automatic and mind goes elsewhere to solve or ponder something
Korel Laloix: No, not runners high.. that goes away at mile 11 or so.
Bruce Mowbray: ok, not a runner, so I'll take your word for it.
Korel Laloix: This is the forcing your brain past something.
Agatha Macbeth: Runners low maybe?
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Eliza Madrigal: morgano, btw, are you okay with my including your comments in the recording? we talked about having a half recorded session, so want to make sure of the lines
Bruce Mowbray understands forcing your brain past something.
morgano Bravin: i had some self induced halucinations as a kid and some were just horrid...probably the reason i stopped...u need a good Environment for it
Korel Laloix: lol.. that is more like.. more like runners "why the fuck did I do this to myself ... again"..
Adams Rubble slips away ( no need to say bye but thanks for the thought)
Agatha Macbeth: Hehe
Korel Laloix: ciao
Agatha Macbeth: TC Adams
Bruce Mowbray: bye, Adams.
Eliza Madrigal: firefly session
morgano Bravin: yes Eliza..that would be ok 
Eliza Madrigal: thanks :)
Aphrodite Macbain: bye Adams
morgano Bravin: bye adams
Agatha Macbeth: Firefly?
Eliza Madrigal: people popping in and out
Agatha Macbeth: Ah

Aphrodite Macbain: Smiles at her misty seahorse. Looks like a hippocampus
Korel Laloix: Just glad I could pop in .. been quite a while.
Agatha Macbeth: Nothing to do with Companions then
Bruce Mowbray ponders "familiars" and "companions..." Alice Walker stuff.
Eliza Madrigal: you guys are so cute
Agatha Macbeth beams
Eliza Madrigal: and daemons! Pullman will have a new book soon :))
Aphrodite Macbain: awww
Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes, Pullmans' His Dark Materials"
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yers, something about Dust.
Agatha Macbeth: Ashes to ashes

Eliza Madrigal wonders how baby and moms are doing... have been away too long Kori :)
Bruce Mowbray: and puppies.
morgano Bravin: strangly enough. some of my dreams.. the enlightening ones..were dificult for me to tell..as if it was wrong to divulge secret information
Aphrodite Macbain: wonder why
Korel Laloix: Very well.. smiles.. thanks...
Eliza Madrigal: you felt entrusted with secrets Morgano?
Bruce Mowbray nods and understand Morg/Mick's predicament.
morgano Bravin: yes
Eliza Madrigal: yay, so happy to hear that Kori :)
Eliza Madrigal: I think dreaming can be a path in itself
Korel Laloix: We have great support and we are in our new rhythm.
morgano Bravin: sounds great Kori

Korel Laloix: Which bring up a interesting question for me... since I almost never remember my dreams, do my visions take on a more vivid texture.. or feel like they have deeper meaning to me? I have thought about this before... but never came to a conclusion.
Eliza Madrigal: aunts and sama's mom?
Eliza Madrigal: oh, that's a good question
Bruce Mowbray ponders how a relationships could have "rhythm" -- sort of like some of my ideas.
Korel Laloix: Yes... Sveta is still here and my aunts are over here all the time... building a good family it feels like.
Aphrodite Macbain: So good to hear Kori

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: wow, what a turn about
Korel Laloix: Not so much the relationship rhythm... more taking care of little one rhythm... smiles
Bruce Mowbray has family-envy.
Korel Laloix: lol
Bruce Mowbray: (being a hermit)
Eliza Madrigal: :) maybe you can hallucinate some crying and yelling... lollol
Aphrodite Macbain: baby has his own rhythm'
Agatha Macbeth: Badum badum
Aphrodite Macbain: food, eat sleep, food eat sleep food...
Korel Laloix: I don't need that bit... lol
Bruce Mowbray: Sacks (or was it Maxine) says that infants up to the age of about 5-6 hallucinate a lot.
Aphrodite Macbain: cuddle
Korel Laloix: You are forgetting pooping as well. that seems to be a major hobby... lol.. frowns
Aphrodite Macbain: they imagine their own pets
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Aphrodite Macbain: ah yes and pooping
Korel Laloix: Diapers are even less interesting at 3am...
Bruce Mowbray: Everything poops.
Bruce Mowbray: (except in SL.)
Aphrodite Macbain: There are toilets in sl

morgano Bravin: i have two types of dream.....mostly just dreams..but occasionaly an odd one that is like an halucination or vision..they taste diferent too
Aphrodite Macbain: taste?
Bruce Mowbray ponders tasting dreams
Eliza Madrigal: can you say they have different effects in the rest of life, Morgano?
morgano Bravin: yes. not exacly on the tongue. but somthing else
Eliza Madrigal understands
Bruce Mowbray: different "flavour" -- sure, I understand.
Agatha Macbeth: Like an epileptic thing?
morgano Bravin: yes, they attach to me
Korel Laloix: Back to work... take care all
Agatha Macbeth: TC K
Eliza Madrigal: bye Kori, so good to see you
morgano Bravin: oh, byeKori

Eliza Madrigal: there is a wonderfu teacher who gives 'FB Live's on dream and sleep yoga lately
Aphrodite Macbain: Byee
Korel Laloix: ciao
Bruce Mowbray: YES! My hallucinations attach themselves to me, too.... It is not under my control.
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Kori.
Eliza Madrigal: once a week, I think it will be tuesdays but maybe thursdays. He talks about 'kinds' of dreams quite often actually
Bruce Mowbray have never been a lucid dreamer.
Aphrodite Macbain: cool
Aphrodite Macbain: what's it called Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: truly worthwhile .. they have replays if you can't attend that day live
Aphrodite Macbain: what's his name?
Eliza Madrigal: tenzin wangyal rinpoche
Agatha Macbeth: Good lord
Eliza Madrigal: he's a tibetan bon teacher, but SO accessible
Eliza Madrigal: and his meditations are wonderful
morgano Bravin: mmm dreams are frivolous in a way...but some embed into you and become part of uour life
morgano Bravin: ok..gotta go byeee
Eliza Madrigal: okay bye :)
Agatha Macbeth: TC Mick
Aphrodite Macbain: waves
Bruce Mowbray: Many Buddhist monks are named Tenzin. -- My typist had a monk named Tenzin living at the farm for six months.
morgano Bravin: thanks lots..especially halucination exposes
Eliza Madrigal: I like that he emphasises not reaching for dreaming or lucid dreaming as the goal... but 'clear light of awareness'
Eliza Madrigal: you too morgano!
Bruce Mowbray nods, wonderful.
Eliza Madrigal: sorry such a chore to be here today
Bruce Mowbray: bye Morg/Mick.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: An informative chore
Eliza Madrigal: :))

Eliza Madrigal: sometimes people talk about it being tedious to listen to others' dreams, but I think it is maybe the difference whether you too are interested in that personally already
Bruce Mowbray: I am fascinated by others' dreams, but I also feel that only THEY can interpret them, not me.
Aphrodite Macbain: I have certain regular dreams- I wonder why. Perhaps they are about something unresolved
Eliza Madrigal nods... recurring Aph?
Eliza Madrigal: how long?
Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes, Mick. I've had the same dream for years and years...
Aphrodite Macbain: Last night I dreamed that people kept waking me up
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Aphrodite Macbain: (although I was sleeping soundly)
Aphrodite Macbain: they were in my house
Eliza Madrigal: goodness!
Agatha Macbeth: How could you dream if...oh never mind
Aphrodite Macbain: and I asked them to be quiet
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Aphrodite Macbain: but they wouldn't
Bruce Mowbray: GOOD, Aph. Well done.
Eliza Madrigal: hm
Aphrodite Macbain: and I kept yelling at them to shut up
Bruce Mowbray: OK, maybe not so well done.
Aphrodite Macbain: My cell kept beeping- perhaps that is what triggered them
Eliza Madrigal: could be
Bruce Mowbray: Oh yeah.
Aphrodite Macbain: I've had this dream a number of times
Agatha Macbeth: You should have called the guard
Eliza Madrigal: also the feeling you described the other day of 'so much to do' and can't relax
Aphrodite Macbain: lol

Aphrodite Macbain: I was wondering whether I had been yelling in my sleep
Aphrodite Macbain: and had woken the neighbours!
Agatha Macbeth: Or the cat
Bruce Mowbray: I've done that. Went through several college roommates that way.
Aphrodite Macbain: for sure the cats
Agatha Macbeth: ^.^
Aphrodite Macbain: yelling in your sleep Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes!
Eliza Madrigal hopes Aph makes sure to find some deep relaxation soon
Aphrodite Macbain: BE QUIET!!!

Bruce Mowbray: Had that same suffocation dream for nine years.
Eliza Madrigal: 9 years is so long
Aphrodite Macbain: AWFUL
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, but also so good when it stopped.
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Aphrodite Macbain: deep breaths
Eliza Madrigal: that's a silver lining for ya :)
Bruce Mowbray: That dream started when my dad died, and it ended nine years later when I moved to the farm (my typist moved to the farm).
Aphrodite Macbain: I am in the middle of working on my footnotes and bibliography for my essay - I think it causes bad dreams
Bruce Mowbray: I can imagine it would, Aph.
Eliza Madrigal: ah, rest and validation
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe the squirrels chased it away
Bruce Mowbray: It will soon be over, though.
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: that makes sense Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: picky academe
Aphrodite Macbain: no comma here; colon there ets
Agatha Macbeth: Acadeyou?

Bruce Mowbray: Time for me to be scraping up supper -- fish tonight, but DON'T TELL BLUB!
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Eliza Madrigal: fun fun
Aphrodite Macbain: yum
Eliza Madrigal: Night Bruce :)
Agatha Macbeth: Scrape well Brucie
Aphrodite Macbain: bye Bruce- thanks for everything
Eliza Madrigal: I was just about to ask if Twin peaks affects dreams, hah

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Bye, everyone. THANK you all!
Eliza Madrigal waves
Agatha Macbeth: In hoc signo vinces
Aphrodite Macbain: Oh - I want to see it but I dont think I get it
Aphrodite Macbain: you said that before Aggers
Agatha Macbeth: Yep
Aphrodite Macbain: must be true
Agatha Macbeth: I tend to repeat myself
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Agatha Macbeth: I tend to repaet myself
Eliza Madrigal: it depends on whether you have to 'get it' if you should see it or not
Agatha Macbeth: With typos
Aphrodite Macbain: Aphro hoc vedi vidi vinci
Eliza Madrigal: bye Aph :) good luck with all
Agatha Macbeth: Finem respice
Aphrodite Macbain: :-) thanks all
Aphrodite Macbain: amen
Agatha Macbeth: TC Aphie
Eliza Madrigal: In hoc signo vinces (Classical Latin: [ɪn hoːk ˈsɪŋnoː ˈwɪŋkeːs]; Ecclesiastical Latin: [in ɔk ˈsiɲɲo ˈvintʃes]) is a Latin phrase meaning "In this sign you will conquer", often also rendered in early modern English as "In this sign thou shalt conquer".
Agatha Macbeth: Mm
Eliza Madrigal: :) Care to unpack?
Agatha Macbeth: I don't have a case :p
Eliza Madrigal: :P
Agatha Macbeth: It's what the message in the sky said to Constantine
Eliza Madrigal: ah! thanks for that
Agatha Macbeth: And he did too
Eliza Madrigal: sure did
Agatha Macbeth: Hence there are Catholics still running around after all these years
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eliza Madrigal: my shoulders have been hunched all session... ack...
Agatha Macbeth: Ack
Eliza Madrigal: will you make it monday? or will be late?
Eliza Madrigal: for adams presentation...
Agatha Macbeth: What are you a pioneer of?
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, that's from the autism group
Agatha Macbeth: Oh I can't be there...work
Eliza Madrigal: boo
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
Agatha Macbeth: Getting as bad as Wol
Eliza Madrigal: don't you dare
Agatha Macbeth: I'll try
Eliza Madrigal: I'm glad that Wol has had some successes though...
Eliza Madrigal: but it goes too far
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
Agatha Macbeth: There's only one Wollie
Eliza Madrigal: so if you are enjoying yourself... well, good....
Agatha Macbeth: Oh I didn't say that!
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Eliza Madrigal: okay friend, I'll see you in teh weekend maybe
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe
Eliza Madrigal: eep typing like wol now... lol
Agatha Macbeth: Have fun
Eliza Madrigal: 'teh'
Eliza Madrigal: you too, bfn <3
Agatha Macbeth: don'T
Agatha Macbeth: :P