2017.06.19 13:00 - WoLE Session: On Upwellings and Abandonments

The Guardian for this The Wisdom of Lived Experience - Views from Psychoanalysis, Neuroscience, Philosophy and Metaphysics meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal. Added comments are by Eliza, who has moved the beginning greetings to the bottom of the log for clarity. 

Eliza Madrigal: Mick and Bruce, were you able to read?
Mickorod Renard: I did
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I was.
Bruce Mowbray: (able to)
Aphrodite Macbain wonders where everyone is
Eliza Madrigal: I was nearly late trying to pare down my writing... was a rich section
Eliza Madrigal is here :)
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Cat has a dentist appointment
Mickorod Renard: I can tell you that I was totally lost with the section and the words
Eliza Madrigal: wow... maybe let's get started then
Mickorod Renard: and have even forgotten it although I only read it about 2 hours ago
Eliza Madrigal: hm, I may have time to read you my tome, haha
Mickorod Renard: I could mumble a bit
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes please do
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- I'd be interested in hearing it read Eliza
Bruce Mowbray: I'd love to hear it, Eliza.
Mickorod Renard: no, I think if you have something worthy please dont let me mumble
Mickorod Renard: he he
Eliza Madrigal: I'm not set up for voice, but I'll post what I have in a bit... would like to hear the questions that come up first? so please mumble a little Mick ^^
Bruce Mowbray: I don't have a report today - only a few comments.
Eliza Madrigal: Oh :(
Eliza Madrigal throws herself on the floor
Eliza Madrigal giggles

Mumbles

Mickorod Renard: love to hear your comments Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: I could mumble them....
Bruce Mowbray: kk,
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: It may illuminate my mumble
Mickorod Renard: he he
Mickorod Renard: go for it
Bruce Mowbray: Well, the text seems to regard the upwelling of affect as a negative - if not pathological - thing.
Bruce Mowbray: Why could it not be positive? Even ecstatic, rather than negatively overwhelming?
Bruce Mowbray: That's about it for moi.
Bruce Mowbray: [done]
 

Eliza Madrigal: such a good question
Mickorod Renard: well, good point Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: one more thing...
Mickorod Renard: I sort of read it thinking what an excelent system
Bruce Mowbray: I have experienced the ecstasy more than the negative overwhelm in my own life.
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Mickorod Renard: I agree with you Bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: Is she talking about anger or depression?
Bruce Mowbray feels affirmed.
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: excellent system, Mick?

Mickorod Renard: I was looking at it as relating to the events following collapse
Mickorod Renard: which I think in previous weeks i was refering to relative to my own experiences
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Raffi
Mickorod Renard: Hi raffi
Raffila Millgrove waves
Eliza Madrigal waves to Raffi
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Raffi.
Mickorod Renard: there seems to be an infill..to help the recovery
Mickorod Renard: but as I said, i didnt understand it well
Eliza Madrigal: infill?
Aphrodite Macbain: Eliza? What's your take on it?
Mickorod Renard: I am sure there must be a system in place tho, either by design or evolution,,we should not over look it

Eliza Madrigal: I heard and felt this as going deeper into the hole
Eliza Madrigal: Actually something interesting happened, in that I came upon a note I'd taken during my first reading of the book...
Eliza Madrigal: "Most clinical book I've ever cried through, for its compassion."
Aphrodite Macbain: aww
Bruce Mowbray: hmmmm.
Eliza Madrigal: Which felt odd, because I wasn't feeling particularly emotional when I read this time,
Eliza Madrigal: so I had to reach back to remember...
Mickorod Renard: listens
Eliza Madrigal: and that's where my report begins.... hopefully not too disconnected...
Aphrodite Macbain: listens
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully to Eliza's report.
Mickorod Renard: fantastic....listens

Eliza Madrigal: re the feeling: This may have to do with reading in sections or having built up distance by studying parts, rather than taking in the whole scope as I had originally.
Eliza Madrigal: This section combined with the last one, feels personal not only for whether one can relate to the patient's anguish or the therapist's necessary presence of mind not to become personally offended while being lashed out at while 'down in the hole' -- but for fathoming of dynamics that play out in lives every day as people are projecting and misunderstanding each other and themselves.
Eliza Madrigal: The other side of the coin may be all the brilliant characterizations that play out in the filter spaces... the figures that make up our art and theater.

Eliza Madrigal: What I saw in the lines I'd left the note at, was a therapist looking beyond the self they are, that might be offended or want to shut down the expression going on, and looking beyond the self the other is projecting and believing in, to the background context, and that background context.
Eliza Madrigal: I thought there must be some danger in beginning to see the patient or one's self, as only a wound, or as that backstory that has left such strong traces ... unless one is rooted in the kind of openness we've explored here, which lets the performance rise and fall (often repetitively) without nailing that down as what they 'are'.
Eliza Madrigal: So this felt like Eckhart Tolle's pain body teaching...

Eliza Madrigal: Here is the section of reading:
Eliza Madrigal: Trauma of Absence

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: "That is, parental neglect for whatever reason, is felt by the nascent self to be abandonment, leading to the self-definition of "only worthy of being abandoned or attacked". Ferenczi's "absence within an absence" suggests strongly the anticipation of care and protection gone awry..." (snip)

Eliza Madrigal: ..."Solms and Friston might suggest that, in these circumstances, the traumatic unmediated affect (free energy) fails to be securely bound and, thus, secure the child's early experience. In Bion's terms, the preconception for care has been negatively realized. The carers have traumatized rather than comforted their child. Parenting figures who lie, distort, or blame the child for being traumatized have set the scene for provocative behavior to be repeated with the therapist." (snip)

Eliza Madrigal: (done)
Eliza Madrigal: the lack of integratedness populates a full stage
Mickorod Renard: wow, that takes some munching over
Aphrodite Macbain: what was it that so deeply affected you the first read Eliza?
Bruce Mowbray: "Have set the scene for projection upon the therapist" -- but also for projection upon the entire world -- or worldview.... "I deserve for everything I care about in the world to abandon me...."
Eliza Madrigal: first of all 'abandonment' ... feeling the anguish of the patient
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Eliza Madrigal: YES Bruce
Bruce Mowbray still listening.
Eliza Madrigal: the ecstasy you mentioned Bruce, is the other side of the anguish perhaps
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Bruce Mowbray: (will say more about that later,...)

Mickorod Renard: when I get stuff like this I have in my minds eye a number of characters that I try and fit into the role so I can understand. When I take a step back I realize how many diferent characters I have and the variety of problems..
Aphrodite Macbain: nods - a full stage
Mickorod Renard: yep
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: a fair few could be myself in varying degrees
Eliza Madrigal: every person begins to seem so many
Bruce Mowbray: (same here, Mick).
Mickorod Renard: it is interesting to me...that although we read the same words we build our own picture into interpreting it
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: I wished this time, that I'd begun my report earlier, so that I could whittle it down to clarity
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps Maxine will illuminate more
Eliza Madrigal: One quote that kept coming to mind was, "Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."
Aphrodite Macbain: I like that
Mickorod Renard: I struggled with the way it was written..I cannot say I understood the section
Eliza Madrigal: attributed to various sources but most say the Talmud
Bruce Mowbray: [from Micah)
Aphrodite Macbain: It frees the reader to do as much or as ,ittle that is possible for them
Eliza Madrigal: Mick, maybe it would be helpful to read it in a larger swath
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: :) yw.
Mickorod Renard: how lovely, and so very poignant too
Mickorod Renard: yes Eliza, might be a good idea
Mickorod Renard: I am going away tommorow, so will try and read it more
Eliza Madrigal: I just keep imagining what it feels like to be a therapist, confronted with the upwelling
Eliza Madrigal: you go away a lot, Mick :))

Bruce Mowbray: I think a lot of families have to deal with the upweling almost all the time....
Bruce Mowbray: chaos....
Eliza Madrigal: true
Eliza Madrigal: or the chaos of not dealing with
Mickorod Renard: I have a lot of that
Bruce Mowbray: Yes.
Aphrodite Macbain: I suppose medical doctors feel something similar when they deal with a very sick patient Eliza
Bruce Mowbray: I'm thinking now of addictions. . . and child abuse . . . and poverty . . . and violence in general.
Eliza Madrigal: maybe so Aph, especially if they stay with the patient through the process

Mickorod Renard: In my work , I recall at the beginning it was about breaking cycles..either addiction abuse deprivation or what
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Mick has seen the waterfront.... in his work.
Mickorod Renard: sounds so easy, but its deep woven
Raffila Millgrove: mick are you speaking of your time spent as a social worker?
Eliza Madrigal: difficult to sustain the spaciousness to see the patterns of cycles
Mickorod Renard: that and in other roles too,
Aphrodite Macbain: I imagine a social worker would feel the same when faced with a desperate case
Bruce Mowbray: I saw it every day at the prison where I taught... and also in the group home for juvenile "delinquents"...
Aphrodite Macbain: a feeling of inadequacy or hopelessness

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: but if you think about it, that is a perfect place to face the other's feeling of abandonment from
Mickorod Renard: thats what social workers feel,,never mind the clients
Aphrodite Macbain: yes ... as long as you are strong enough to not be sucked under
Eliza Madrigal nods
Aphrodite Macbain: It would just add to my own feelings of inadequacy!
Eliza Madrigal: what people need is perhaps not words as much as visceral understanding
Mickorod Renard: even as a parent and grandparent I am now feeling this

Aphrodite Macbain: was it hard for you Bruce and Mick to not be drawn in?
Raffila Millgrove: i was involved in a pilot program at a nearby college.. my task: training the peer counselors. what i loved about peer counseling is the boundaries. we only dealt with issues realted to college. you had a sense of really being able to help each other.. successes. when I was in other areas.. of training...related to support groups. handicapped children. that was not so happy.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Mickorod Renard: mm yes, i can understand Raffi
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Raffi, without boundaries for the "problem," there is no end to the struggle.
Raffila Millgrove: one time i really lost it. at a meeting of parents.. who were bragging on how well they integrated this large class of children who came in wheel chairs. to this elemtary school.
Mickorod Renard: its wierd about being drawn in,,you leave the office..sort of,,and go home..a diferent world
Aphrodite Macbain waits for more from Raffi

Raffila Millgrove: I listened so patiently and finaly in the crowd of maybe 35 people.. i said. ah this is wonderful how welcome the children must have felt. How many of you invited one or some to your own children's birthday parties.. could you raise you hand? None raised. Point made.
Aphrodite Macbain: I suppose everyone has their limitations
Aphrodite Macbain: Right now we are being challenged to invite homeless peole into our homes
Aphrodite Macbain: Very few are able
Raffila Millgrove: if they hadn't bragged about how wonderfully integrated these children were .. into the community of the school.. i wouldn't have been so dramatic.... but I knew they were patting selves on back for nothing. that they didn't really welcome those chidlren as equals.
Mickorod Renard: I had some kids mix with me but it didnt take me long to suspect it was having a negative effect on my young son at the time,,but these were children with behavior problems

Raffila Millgrove: i did that Aph. I let a homeless stranger stay in my home for six weeks. It was pretty amazing. and everyone told me I was crazy and I'd do it again in a minute for all i learned from it.
Aphrodite Macbain: Good for yu Raffi
Eliza Madrigal: line drawing is rarely perfect and so much has to do with timing
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Eliza Madrigal: I was sort of a delinquent so can't help but think from that angle :)
Aphrodite Macbain: the fear of the stranger, the other is deeply engrained
Raffila Millgrove: not going to say it was easy.. or not scary. it was hard and it was scary. but it turned out worth while... but I can't say.. eeryone should try it.
Bruce Mowbray: As a child and young adult, I envied the "hoods" and delinquent kids.
Aphrodite Macbain: why?
Bruce Mowbray: Their lives seemed so free and expansive.
Bruce Mowbray: Mine was so limited...
Aphrodite Macbain: they probably envied your life
Aphrodite Macbain: of security

Bruce Mowbray: I spent almost my entire career as an adult working with such people.
Eliza Madrigal: my experience was, of rejecting the friends whose lives seemed too normal
Bruce Mowbray: and realized I'd had a romantic fantasy about their lives.
Raffila Millgrove: I learned a lot about the foster care system.. and how damanging it can be.. how you probably never going to "get over it" all your life. the young man I had here.. great strides but... i could not even imagine.. how hard life was for him.. even tho i was watching so close up. it was painful beyond others things I have watched.
Eliza Madrigal: we get to see from many contrasting angles in the course of a life
Raffila Millgrove: his pain from being abandoned by his parents. twice. one as a baby. once as a teen. stunning. how stunted he was.. how unprepared for normal life.
Bruce Mowbray: whew.. my typing is horrible today.
Mickorod Renard: twice have i followed the path of fostering and doing the training and interviews,,but stopped short because i felt i didnt do a good job of my own son
Eliza Madrigal: I think that's wisdom Mick... there are primary responsibilities
Eliza Madrigal: but maybe it is hard to revisit or find other avenues when life changes
Raffila Millgrove: ok well this one did have happy ending. he went home to be by his own baby girl. and i hope .. i taught him a lot about.. how to just hold someone and love them. I used to do that. Just huge him tight and say.. you're such a jerk! But I love you like my own aby. smoochie smoocie and he would laugh and hug me back.
Eliza Madrigal: aw
Bruce Mowbray: :)

Raffila Millgrove: well you gotta do that i think. rebaby them. love them like a newborn.
Raffila Millgrove: so they know how it feels and can do for own child.
Mickorod Renard: wow
Raffila Millgrove: that is all i could really do. love him. even if he was a jerk which he was. lol
Mickorod Renard: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I brought home 'strays' to my mom all the time, and, even for all the ways she wasn't 'there' for me, she often took them in. The strange thing is, sometimes they were kids from far wealthier households... the parents would just kick them out
Mickorod Renard: wow, how amazing
Eliza Madrigal: she took in violent people too though... which was a problem...
Eliza Madrigal: boundaries were all over the place

--BELL--

[eliza edited a few lines here]

Mickorod Renard: I rejected my parents, they were too straight.......I was a bad boy for a period..like in the hells angels....but it was a great experience...i was so supprised how many mates were just lost for a family
Raffila Millgrove: there's just no questionn that you need nerves of steel.. and you can't have your own kids around.. it's too much risk to them. you can take risk for self but not for own children. that's how i feel in it.

Aphrodite Macbain: remembers only inviting one homeless person in -- and it was a disaster.
Bruce Mowbray wonders if maybe such idealistic concern for the world's downtrodden might also be a sort of projection --- (It was in my case, I'm sure.)
Mickorod Renard: :)
Eliza Madrigal: yeah, I'm fairly rigid about lines parents should draw when raising their own kids I guess... ask honestly what one can do
Eliza Madrigal: deep question Bruce
Raffila Millgrove: however.. getting a wheelchair regular kid into a birthday party at your house.. is no where near in the same.... field as homeless. And that's the stuff that people will not do that they could and should do.
Bruce Mowbray: Well, I projected an idealistic picture on the "real" world, I think.
Eliza Madrigal: absolutely Raffi
Aphrodite Macbain: I feel more comfortable donating to organizations that are better equipped to look after the homeless.
Eliza Madrigal: or donating to causes that promote justice in the world
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: that too
Mickorod Renard: I often wonder that too Bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: I am totally inadequate to offer more
Mickorod Renard: we tend to view the world through our own glasses
Aphrodite Macbain: and they aren't always rose-coloured Mick!

Bruce Mowbray: More and more, I've come to feel that being responsible for myself is a fulltime job - and maybe the best thing I can give to the world. If I can be a light, maybe others can find their [own] ways through that.
Mickorod Renard: exactly
Aphrodite Macbain: I think so Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone were responsible for her/himself?
Raffila Millgrove: I agree Aph.. the solution is definately not to expect people to add a homeless person to the family. Lot of organizations do grat work to get people.. who can eventually work.. back into shelter.. esp those with children.
Mickorod Renard: I am so envious of your 'grace' Bruce, you are a light to follow
Eliza Madrigal: I do feel a responsibility to do, not necessarily more, but what I feel called to at times
Aphrodite Macbain: I would have to be very strong and very wise to take on some sad cases
Bruce Mowbray: awww. ducks head....
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Mickorod Renard: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Rumi: "Pray for a hard teacher...."
Eliza Madrigal: I have learned I'm not a fit psychologist though
Raffila Millgrove: I feel if you see an opportunity to do.. the small kindness to strangers etc. you should take it. you can smile at a homeless person on the street to let them know.. you see them as a human. it takes nothing to do that.
Eliza Madrigal: through trial and error :)
Eliza Madrigal nods... and homelessness, or anything else, isn't one thing ... there are different situations
Aphrodite Macbain: It is important, however, to see these people and become aware of the issues surrounding them. Not look away.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods to Eliza
Mickorod Renard: I always used to take half my dinner from the restaurants i ate especially if i weere in high class hotels..and give the food to homeless..if nothing else it taught me to control my greed

Back to Upwelling

Bruce Mowbray: So. . . . are we implying that some of these social issues are the results of the sort of affective upwelling that Maxine's book describes?
Aphrodite Macbain: Nice Mick
Eliza Madrigal: what a question Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: !!
Bruce Mowbray: I mean, we slipped so easily into that theme.
Aphrodite Macbain: If affective upwelling means strong emotions? Yes
Bruce Mowbray: from talking about Maxine's themes.
Eliza Madrigal: one might see the 'whole world' as 'the fundamental situation' you mean?
Mickorod Renard: glad you asked that Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: It's the jargon I have a hard time with Mick
Mickorod Renard: me too
Bruce Mowbray: Beware of emotional echo chambers.

Eliza Madrigal: we have five minutes to figure this out....
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Aphrodite Macbain loves the concept of emotional echo chambers
Bruce Mowbray looks forward to seeing Maxine on Thursday.
Eliza Madrigal: me too!!
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Mickorod Renard: I do find it confusing as I am never sure where the standard of normal is
Eliza Madrigal: I seem to come away from most of our sessions with the sense that what is important is presence presence presence
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- paying attention
Bruce Mowbray nods nods nods to Eliza.
Aphrodite Macbain: and empathy
Eliza Madrigal grins
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps same
Mickorod Renard: so, abandonments verses attention?
Aphrodite Macbain: why not?
Mickorod Renard: love vs neglect
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm with you
Mickorod Renard: etc etc

Maxine Next Week!

Raffila Millgrove: Eliza.. did you already send some questions to Maxine?
Eliza Madrigal: yes, not necessarily 'understanding' all the time, but caring
Aphrodite Macbain whispers
Bruce Mowbray: All along the way . . . be careful not to abandon yourself....
Eliza Madrigal: I haven't sent anything to Maxine
Raffila Millgrove: I am wondering.. if we should come prepared or maybe .. put acouple things together in emails?
Eliza Madrigal: so everyone should think of what they want to ask her
Raffila Millgrove: you think?
Raffila Millgrove: like we might email a little?
Eliza Madrigal: I could send a few questions ahead of time
Mickorod Renard: I couldnt have given more care and love and attention to my lad..I dont know what went wrong
Aphrodite Macbain: I'll try and come up with one question
Raffila Millgrove: cause other reason: we do want a good crowd for her. this group toay is alittle light. attendance wise.
Bruce Mowbray: me too, Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: ((Mick))
Mickorod Renard: :)
Raffila Millgrove: and if we're talking in email that might help people remember.
Eliza Madrigal: (((Mick)))) you are such a lovely father... always fretting

--BELL--


Bruce Mowbray: ((( Mick )))
Eliza Madrigal: Raffi if you want to start an email that would be great, then others could add on, and we could have a foundation for Max's visit
Aphrodite Macbain: hugs all round
Mickorod Renard: you do get only child issues
Bruce Mowbray: I wish I'd had a father like you, Mick.
Raffila Millgrove: Mick parents do their best.. good ones. and you did your best you could do.. so... that's that. we know you are a good dad.
Eliza Madrigal: yes me too :)
Mickorod Renard: owww,ty Bruce
Mickorod Renard: Eliza..ducks head
Raffila Millgrove: ok I will do that Elixa.
Raffila Millgrove: Eilza. i will write an email.
Eliza Madrigal: thanks... it is a good idea Raffi
Bruce Mowbray: Well, that's not really such a high bar.... if you knew my dad.
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Raffi
Raffila Millgrove: misqoute a few things. insult a couple people by mistake.. the usual.
Eliza Madrigal laughs

                                                                     Runway Raffi

Eliza Madrigal: (((Bruce)))
Mickorod Renard: he he
Bruce Mowbray: Time to scrape up supper.
Aphrodite Macbain: giggles
Eliza Madrigal: bye Bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: byee
Mickorod Renard: bye Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you everyone!
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now.

Raffila Millgrove: well i had to sit for 30 minutes reassuring Adams that I am an ass and don't fuss on it.
Mickorod Renard: I wish I could say hello and ty to mine
Eliza Madrigal: I like your emails Raffi... you are so honest off the top of your impressions
Raffila Millgrove: cuase he really did want to sit down with me too.. be sure I was ok yatta yatta.
Eliza Madrigal: :) that's the price
Eliza Madrigal: :) it is a good price, leading to understandings
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks everyone. I look forward to reading the Kindle text once I get it
Mickorod Renard: bye Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: Byee
Eliza Madrigal: thanks for BEING PRESENT HERE
Mickorod Renard: now then, i may not make this thursday
Raffila Millgrove: yeah it was fine. he had a great outfit on. we were both in business suits.. girls on the beach. quite strange.
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: oh no Mick
Mickorod Renard: which day was maxine coming?
Raffila Millgrove: Oh Thurs.
Mickorod Renard: I might manage then
Eliza Madrigal: Thurs
Raffila Millgrove: for our regular meet. why are you wishipsering everying?
Raffila Millgrove: it's been a little weird.
Eliza Madrigal: :) he's stuck in whisper mode
Mickorod Renard: I will try and persuade my host
Eliza Madrigal: :) hope you can manage Mick
Mickorod Renard: I will try
Eliza Madrigal: if not, email ahead :)
Mickorod Renard: bye folks
Eliza Madrigal: have a wonderful trip
Raffila Millgrove: oh yes i sure hope you can be with us. you are having to use someone else's computer?
Eliza Madrigal: wherever you're off to
Mickorod Renard: ty, back sunday
Mickorod Renard: a sunny isle
Raffila Millgrove: lovely! enjoy!
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Mickorod Renard: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye raffi, see you in email
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Raffila Millgrove: ok well i will go off now and compose a little note then. bye. xo
Eliza Madrigal waves

Beginning greetings

Eliza Madrigal: Oh no... it is a very powerful section
Aphrodite Macbain: rats
Eliza Madrigal: but you'll get to it :)
Eliza Madrigal: How is everything else?
Aphrodite Macbain: All things digital seem to be comiung apart around me....
Aphrodite Macbain: coming
Aphrodite Macbain: my email, my calendar, my passwords
Aphrodite Macbain: grr
Eliza Madrigal: did something happen to compromise things?
Aphrodite Macbain: I am wondering.
Aphrodite Macbain: Trying to reach the help desk is also a challenge
Eliza Madrigal: might be worth a check, when you have a pattern
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: odd thing is I can get my email and calendar on my iphone but not on my main computer
Eliza Madrigal: so the main computer is where the issue is
Aphrodite Macbain: no - I cant download Kindle on my iphone
Aphrodite Macbain: :(
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick!
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Mick
Eliza Madrigal: hm.... maybe update or reinstall the app?
Mickorod Renard: hiya
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Eliza Madrigal does not know how everyone manages to read on their phones!
Aphrodite Macbain: I have reinstalled my email about 5 times....
Mickorod Renard: oh, i did too
Eliza Madrigal: uh
Mickorod Renard: saves booting something else up
Aphrodite Macbain: there are digital devils in the air
Mickorod Renard: I can even do this on my phone
Eliza Madrigal: at least with phone reading you are always ready if you find yourself in a waiting room or something. I take my ipad everywhere
Aphrodite Macbain: this? you mean get into SL?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce!
Aphrodite Macbain: waves at Bruce
Mickorod Renard: yes, I use an app called Lumnya or something like that
Eliza Madrigal: what do you SEE on that app?
Mickorod Renard: Hi Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Mick and everyone.
Mickorod Renard: you can see the virtual world
Mickorod Renard: and chat boxes
Mickorod Renard: but it is a little complex as you do have to remember what does what
Mickorod Renard: like learning another viewer isnt easy
Eliza Madrigal: I see... at least there is that option
Mickorod Renard: and u can tp
Eliza Madrigal: to keep up with something one is already engaged with... although I wouldn't think it would be comfortable to get to know SL in?
Mickorod Renard: yes, I have used it several times from all over the world
Eliza Madrigal: hm, maybe what Eden used from India too
Mickorod Renard: maybe
Mickorod Renard: I havnt used it whilst driving yet
Mickorod Renard: :)
Eliza Madrigal: >whew<
Aphrodite Macbain: If I had to remember stuff I'd be at a loss
Bruce Mowbray: Yikes!
Mickorod Renard: I am at a loss even without remembering
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: grins