The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza. The comments are by Agatha.

Agatha Macbeth: Liz ♥
Eliza Madrigal: Hi gorgeous :)
Agatha Macbeth: Likewise :)
Eliza Madrigal: I'm sorry... very distracted today... hearings, awful hearings
Agatha Macbeth: Hearings?
Eliza Madrigal: Around the supreme court nominee
Agatha Macbeth: Oh
Eliza Madrigal: brutal
Agatha Macbeth: No idea what that means,sorry
Eliza Madrigal: and now he keeps yelling
Agatha Macbeth: Men eh
Agatha Macbeth: Tura :)
Agatha Macbeth: Welcome back
Eliza Madrigal: not all men :)
Tura Brezoianu: hi Eliza, Agatha
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Tura! Welcome back!
Agatha Macbeth: Hehe
Eliza Madrigal: you lightened your hair ^.^
Agatha Macbeth: Are you blonde or is it my viewer?
Agatha Macbeth: Snap
Tura Brezoianu: My favorite colour is variety
Agatha Macbeth: Looks like the peroxide has been out
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Was there a WG last night Liz?
Eliza Madrigal: I must apologize for having divided attention today, Tura, but also have to apologize for divided attention
Eliza Madrigal: oops
Eliza Madrigal: See :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes, there was a WG meeting... will get minutes
Agatha Macbeth: One aplology will do :p
Agatha Macbeth: Damn
Agatha Macbeth: I always miss them

Return of the Tura

Agatha Macbeth: How was Japan Tu?
Tura Brezoianu: Great!
Johny Malheur's current display-name is "Johny Merveilleux".
Agatha Macbeth: Plenty of drumming?
Eliza Madrigal: That's what the second part of my sentence was supposed to be... really want to hear about Japan :)
Agatha Macbeth: So :)
Johny Malheur: hi all
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Johnny, welcome back
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Johny, welcome back :)
Tura Brezoianu: Yes, all day for two weeks. First week, a series of workshops from prominent taiko players, second week, staying at Kodo's apprentice centre
Johny Malheur: thx:)
Agatha Macbeth: Wow
Eliza Madrigal: intensive!
Eliza Madrigal: Did you get time to explore also?
Tura Brezoianu: There were some organised touristy things as well -- a trip to a taiko factory, and watching people rehearsing for an Ondeko ("demon drumming") ceremony
Eliza Madrigal: demon drumming?
Agatha Macbeth: Hot drumming perhaps
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Tura Brezoianu: The dancers wear demon masks and dance in front of a large drum. A sort of good luck ritual to assure the community's good fortunes
Eliza Madrigal: all kinds of shamanic rituals come to mind, so curious
Agatha Macbeth: Nice
Eliza Madrigal: ahhh
Eliza Madrigal: do you feel entranced, drumming? or too focused on learning?
Agatha Macbeth: I wonder if Jethro Baudin still does his SL drumming
Tura Brezoianu: Mainly learning, trying to remember all the rhythms and the movements
Agatha Macbeth: John Bonham would be proud
Eliza Madrigal: Eden was describing a retreat she was on recently, where the guidance was to hit two rocks against each other for about 90 minutes...
Eliza Madrigal: sitting by a stream
Agatha Macbeth: 'Bang the rocks together guys'
Eliza Madrigal: eventually she went into a kind of vision...
Agatha Macbeth: Good old Edie
Agatha Macbeth: She didn't start a fire I hope?
Eliza Madrigal: I just think it is a very kind of primordial instinct in us, the drumming
Agatha Macbeth: And the fire :p
Eliza Madrigal: :)
--BELL--1.15
Tura Brezoianu: Taiko is a very physical thing, you're using your whole body, it's like drumming, dance, and martial art combined
Johny Malheur: drumming effects the base chakra
Agatha Macbeth: Good heavens
Agatha Macbeth: Bet you lose someweight doing that
Agatha Macbeth: Must be very energetic
Eliza Madrigal: Tura is fierce now :)
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Tura Brezoianu: I don't have all that much weight to lose :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Agatha Macbeth: Lucky you eh
Eliza Madrigal: Johny, say more?
Johny Malheur: base chakra connects us with the earth
Johny Malheur: so if one is too much in ones thoughts, its good way to balance
Eliza Madrigal: ah, I can see that
Eliza Madrigal: like gardening
Johny Malheur: nods
Eliza Madrigal: Here are the WG minutes btw... https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Guardian_Pages/Working_Group/2018_Working_Group/09.26.2018_WG_Meeting_Minutes
Eliza Madrigal: we need to come up with a book pretty soon... am hoping by the time of GM meeting to be able to lay out a plan ^.^
Eliza Madrigal: here is one option Bleu offered, that is entirely online: https://mindbodyproblems.com/introduction/
Eliza Madrigal: so that even visitors could jump right in without having to purchase anything
Agatha Macbeth: Nice
Eliza Madrigal: That seems a good option but I haven't looked through yet
Tura Brezoianu: I saw it mentioned in the recent logs, and I've been looking at it
Eliza Madrigal: first thoughts?
Johny Malheur: whats it about?
Agatha Macbeth: Both good questions
Eliza Madrigal: :))

Conscious rocks

Tura Brezoianu: So far, he's unconvinced by anything that anyone has said about the mind-body problem.
Tura Brezoianu: Or problems.
Eliza Madrigal: that might be interesting, if he offers some other views
Agatha Macbeth: What is the problem exactly?
Eliza Madrigal: one of *the* big philosophical and maybe biological puzzles
Agatha Macbeth: Oh
Johny Malheur: or of paradigm?
Johny Malheur: has anyone read it?
Eliza Madrigal: that too, interesting
Tura Brezoianu: The way I'd put it is that we have experience of our own selves, but everything else we know about the universe tells us that there cannot be any such thing as an experiencing being.
Tura Brezoianu: People's minds seem to twist into strange shapes when they contemplate this blatant contradiction for too long.
Eliza Madrigal: puzzle, paradigm, aaand paradox
Johny Malheur: how does universe tell us differently?
Eliza Madrigal: you're very clear headed, Tura :)
Johny Malheur: sounds like paradigm problem
Eliza Madrigal: I always think of the question, "is mind in body, or vice versa" as a piece people enjoy grappling with
Tura Brezoianu: Science has not explained how matter gives rise to minds.
Tura Brezoianu: Why is a brain conscious but a rock isn't?
Eliza Madrigal: and who are we to say?
Johny Malheur: science has a paradigm that the consciousness is something extra
Johny Malheur: that causes the problem
Tura Brezoianu: Some say, maybe rocks ARE conscious!
Tura Brezoianu: Others say, maybe we aren't!
Eliza Madrigal: but we think we are!
Tura Brezoianu: But then, what thinks?
Johny Malheur: if one looks at consciousness and matter as part of essential reality there is no problem
--BELL--1.30
Eliza Madrigal: people are sort of following all the rabbit holes from different angles, and I don't discredit the material angle out of hand
Johny Malheur: nods
Eliza Madrigal: but we're still in the 99% clueless arena.
Eliza Madrigal: (or I am)
Agatha Macbeth: I'm there all the time
Johny Malheur: there is matter, there is consciousness, but science says there is just matter and energy and creates the problem oc consciousness in this way
Eliza Madrigal: most do, agreed
Eliza Madrigal: but then fairly recently I think there is more room
Johny Malheur: yes, the paradigm is slowly changing
Tura Brezoianu: If we really understood consciousness, we would know how to build one.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Tura Brezoianu: (Other than by the traditional method, that is.)
Eliza Madrigal: if you've ever meditated with an object... there comes some different perception about the object sometimes
Eliza Madrigal: I like the rock example
Eliza Madrigal: which seems as unconscious as one can point to
Eliza Madrigal: originally
Eliza Madrigal: as though any liveliness is sort of imposed or projected
Eliza Madrigal: ascribed to
Eliza Madrigal: but sit long enough, or do a few phenomenology exercises and some questions/doubt opens
Johny Malheur: one can think that a stone is aware but just on different stage of consciousness
Johny Malheur: than human or animal
Eliza Madrigal: scale of consciousnesss?
Johny Malheur: uh huh
Johny Malheur: we create most problems with undefined concepts
Eliza Madrigal: well so this book will be about that, if we choose it :)))
Johny Malheur: oh gotts run, laters:)
Eliza Madrigal: bye Johny, have a great day
Eliza Madrigal: or night... etc
Agatha Macbeth: Bye for now

Getting stoned

Eliza Madrigal: Stones in Japan are especially interesting, since people over so long have made a point of bringing them out and letting them speak for themselves in a way
Agatha Macbeth: Megaliths are pretty interesting too
Eliza Madrigal: yes, in relationship!
Agatha Macbeth: Not sure if they're conscious or not
Tura Brezoianu: I like Japanese stone gardens, where there are a few carefully placed stones, surrounded by sand raked into patterns.
Agatha Macbeth: Yes I love those sand patterns
Eliza Madrigal nods, very much
Eliza Madrigal: I used to only appreciate the very polished looking ones
Agatha Macbeth: Ooh yes
Agatha Macbeth: Beautiful
Eliza Madrigal: but there are some that are very rustic that you might pass by at first thinking they are left to seed a bit by western expectations
Agatha Macbeth: So lovely to feel too
Eliza Madrigal: ahh
Agatha Macbeth: Love crystal too
Agatha Macbeth: Any kind of gem in fact
--BELL--1.45
Eliza Madrigal: favorites?
Agatha Macbeth: Ruby I guess
Agatha Macbeth: I love red anyway
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Jet too
Agatha Macbeth: I like black as well :p
Tura Brezoianu: And green? :)
Eliza Madrigal: have noticed ^.^
Agatha Macbeth: Not so hot on green
Agatha Macbeth: Blue can be stunning
Tura Brezoianu: You're looking very green and blue today

                
Agatha Macbeth: Yes dear old Blakopal
Agatha Macbeth: Bought this in Caledon years ago
Agatha Macbeth: Don't think the shop's even there now
Eliza Madrigal: am partial to pearls, more and more as I get older, though rarely wear them
Eliza Madrigal: always liked opals when I was little, so related maybe
Agatha Macbeth: I can just picture you as a 20s girl :)
Agatha Macbeth: With feathers in your hair   (her name was Lola....sorry, I digress)
Eliza Madrigal: yeah, love all the retro stuff but am really very basic day to day
Agatha Macbeth: You're usually pretty basic in SL too ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: black, white, white and black, hah
Agatha Macbeth: Go well together
Eliza Madrigal: safe, sound, sound and safe
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Agatha Macbeth: The most outrageous thing I ever saw you wear was a rasta hat
Agatha Macbeth: With an EVE avatar :P
Eliza Madrigal: aha :)
Agatha Macbeth: Dunno what inspired that i must say
Agatha Macbeth: Must have been a trippy day
Eliza Madrigal: really liked the Wall-E film
Agatha Macbeth: Mm, never seen it
Eliza Madrigal: and I think all the parts and pieces got mixed... so there was a flower too, and then Sunshine's hat
Eliza Madrigal: anyway, yeah, need to mix it up
Agatha Macbeth: And I *must* get around to watching Il Mare sometime! >.<
Eliza Madrigal: not going there :P even gave you a link last time
Agatha Macbeth: I know
Agatha Macbeth sighs
Agatha Macbeth: Time is waiting in the wings, etc...

Eliza Madrigal: btw, did you know youtube has 9 hour long stretches of Gurdjieff talks?
Agatha Macbeth: 0.0
Agatha Macbeth: All at once?
Eliza Madrigal: I was listening the other night and fell asleep...woke up still going
Agatha Macbeth: Oy
Eliza Madrigal: yes gathered together
Tura Brezoianu: what, actual recordings of G himself?
Eliza Madrigal: readings from writings and books
Agatha Macbeth: Wow
Agatha Macbeth: Some people would be shattered by that :p
Eliza Madrigal: it was interesting... I was dreaming about postures
Eliza Madrigal: because a long stretch was about that
Eliza Madrigal: memory and posture and inhabiting different postures as stances in life... something along those lines, interesting
Eliza Madrigal: maybe touches on 'multiple selves'? sound familiar?
Agatha Macbeth: Mm
Agatha Macbeth: Spiegel im spiegel
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eliza Madrigal: I should wash my face and walk the dog... have been so upset with these hearings today, but this was a welcome refreshment and change of attention
Eliza Madrigal: thank you
Agatha Macbeth: Why not walk your face and wash the dog instead?
Eliza Madrigal: um
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Eliza Madrigal: maybe I'll silly face walk the dog   (Ministry of Silly Face Walks?)
Agatha Macbeth: Why do you have a dirty face I wonder?
Eliza Madrigal: oh... was a mess, honestly... was listening to tough stories from women today
Agatha Macbeth: Surely that's good?
Eliza Madrigal: strangers to me but didn't feel that way
Agatha Macbeth smiles
Eliza Madrigal: maybe, I thought it was important enough to make time for
Eliza Madrigal: ((((friends))))) bye for now
Agatha Macbeth: Good for you ♥
Agatha Macbeth: TC
Agatha Macbeth: Love to George
Tura Brezoianu: bye Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Love
Eliza Madrigal: bye for now, so nice to see you back Tura!!
--BELL--2.00
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed!
Agatha Macbeth: Back to the dream sessions soon
Tura Brezoianu: Great to be back here.
Agatha Macbeth: Yes we missed you
Tura Brezoianu: Bye for now
Agatha Macbeth: TC