28-31 - Sharing it All

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    For me, these sessions are windows into different aspects of what it means to cultivate Continuity of Presence.

    It seemed to make sense, what with RL retreaters returning, Sl retreats beginning, and people digging into important discussions regarding the wide visions of Play as Being as a whole, to give this scribe three parts.

    -Appreciating Meditation and Perception

    -Retreat Reports from Pema Osel Ling 

    -Roles, Teachers, and the SL Retreat 



    Appreciating Meditation and Perception

    How interesting to think about meditation and practice as retreat. What about surrender?


    Bertrum Quan: retreat, is to withdraw, to get away from, to move backwards... it can suggest defeat (tactical or strategic).
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: Napoleon and Moscow, and all that.
    Wol Euler: perhaps we should call it a "consolidation" instead...
    Bertrum Quan: depends on the "it."
    Wol Euler: specifically in the context of meditational or other Retreating
    Bertrum Quan: Yes, in that case, consolidation, is better--especially because it suggests a sense of oneness or wholeness.
    Wol Euler: which is (for me at least) a large part of the purpose of the whole thing
    Bertrum Quan: I agree.


    Scathach Rhiadra: practice is more than just formal sitting meditation, I think
    Bertrum Quan: Yes. It can be both mind and body practice on a number of levels
    Scathach Rhiadra: and some of the breathing methods can be done no matter what you doing,
    so helps with continuity of presence


    (Well worth reading the entire text here, as Pila methodically outlines practical aspects of meditation)

    Pila Mulligan: but you can reduce the essentials to three elements, in my opinion
    Pila Mulligan: 1. posture
    Pila Mulligan: 2. breathing
    Pila Mulligan: 3. contemplation
    Pila Mulligan: all three are directly related, too
    Pila Mulligan: posture is anything that is supportive of breathing
    Pila Mulligan: sitting, walking, even laying down
    Pila Mulligan: but not all scrunched up
    Pila Mulligan: as that inhibits breathing

    Pila Mulligan: the idea is to let the contemplation multiply the effect with the breathing and posture
    Pila Mulligan: so the result is a lighter sense of Being


    SophiaSharon Larnia: What is the difference between detachment and disinterest?
    Pila Mulligan: good question SophiaSharon
    Pila Mulligan: each implies some objectivity, but indifference is more likely to be without compassion
    Scathach Rhiadra: disinterest seems like a kind of aversion
    Pila Mulligan: a rejection?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Ive asked several people, and what stuck with me is the idea that disinterest is judgemental
    Pila Mulligan: disinterest as a judgement makes sense
    Pila Mulligan: as a distinction from detachment
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, the aversion Scath mentioned
    Qt Core: i had great food too today at a wedding
    Qt Core: great food, great place, great weather, a nice couple of friends being wedded, a great day
    Qt Core: a feeling of something finally going the way things should go


    Bertram Jacobus: yes. and i always like to say judgements are not bad, but condemnations are
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Pila Mulligan: how else can ethics work, except by being aware of values
    Bertram Jacobus: ty pila. i´m happy to hear that from another in spirituality interested person
    Pila Mulligan: thank you
    Bertram Jacobus: i think, very often the "absolute" and the relative stage are mixed in relation to that topic (values)
    Pila Mulligan: one ideal may be to have no ideals, but that is hypothetical
    Bertram Jacobus: i don´t think, that that is a single ideal, because to deny the relative realities makes no sense to me
    Susi Alcott: in case nothing is judged, nothing can either change the hurting behaviers
    Pila Mulligan: similar ideas there -- seeing the relaitve realities allows you to find the best path
    Bertram Jacobus: on the other hand, for sure it is wonderful when one can relax for a while or on a certain stage without those values - too
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_


    A wonderful wave...

    Pila Mulligan: I'd say the essential nature of mind is perception
    Pila Mulligan: including the perception of change
    Pila Mulligan: does that work with you?
    Paradise Tennant: nope it is the empty before space .. it is the mirror which plays perception
    Fox Monacular: what about sense making?
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Paradise Tennant: fox ..lovely question :)))))
    Pila Mulligan: naked void awareness of the empty before space makes sense in the simplest context to me
    Fox Monacular: i mean we experience something and we make sense of it as void or change?
    Pila Mulligan: our experience is an accumulation of perceptions
    Fox Monacular: accumulation of perceptions through the lens of our sense-making apparatus perhaps?
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pila Mulligan: our perceptions fill up space
    Paradise Tennant: eats a cookie .. happy in her senses :)
    Fox Monacular: but how do we start making sense? what determines it?
    Pila Mulligan: continuity
    Pila Mulligan: observed continuity
    Pila Mulligan: even if false
    Fox Monacular: but do you think it is universal for human mind, or culture and context dependent?
    Fox Monacular: yes, I see what you mean
    Pila Mulligan: the latter
    Pila Mulligan: and a little the former
    Fox Monacular: right:)
    Pila Mulligan: mostly context
    Pila Mulligan: we give significance to things
    Pila Mulligan: it is not inherent in things to have significance
    Pila Mulligan: we make that an attribute of our perception
    Pila Mulligan: oh, this is significant
    Fox Monacular: right, things before us have data, but we attribute information to them
    Pila Mulligan: and from that we construct space
    Pila Mulligan: as a perception
    Fox Monacular: what do you think is the difference between perception and sensation?
    Pila Mulligan: maybe none
    Pila Mulligan: maybe none
    Pila Mulligan: yet there seem to be 'universal' perceptions in the human mind
    Pila Mulligan: mountain, sea, clouds, hot, cold, light, dark
    Fox Monacular: right, like face recognition
    Pila Mulligan: so those are real by consensus
    Fox Monacular: through learning
    Pila Mulligan: and expereince :)
    Pila Mulligan: sea, swim
    Pila Mulligan: mountain, climb
    Pila Mulligan: clouds, fly
    Fox Monacular: dark, monsters:)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: eeek
    Pila Mulligan: now let's let those things be then, simply be
    Pila Mulligan: what are they when we just let them be?
    Pila Mulligan: answer: a form
    Fox Monacular: nothing, really
    Pila Mulligan: a mountain form, a clud form, etc
    Pila Mulligan: an empty form
    Fox Monacular: form is also a property... perhaps just stuff...
    Pila Mulligan: here, I'm saying a shape then
    Pila Mulligan: an image
    Pila Mulligan: an empty shape or image
    Pila Mulligan: until we fill it up
    Paradise Tennant:" ..to recognize the continuity and all pervasiveness of this void nature.. this absence of any true
    existence is to recognize absolute truth.. this is the natural state of mind .. untouched by any obscuration.. in which
    all phenomena are seen a the buddha sees them .. as dreams or magical illusions .."
    Pila Mulligan: 'the empty before space'
    Pila Mulligan: naked void awareness
    Fox Monacular: so to see this one has to clearly get un-attached to all things, and recognize that everything is the same, including the very mind
    Paradise Tennant: hmm yes
    Pila Mulligan: well, and to stop filling them up
    Fox Monacular: right
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Paradise Tennant: we be right on it :))
    Fox Monacular: sounds easy
    Pila Mulligan: the magical illusions do not disappear
    Fox Monacular: :))
    Pila Mulligan: pass the tea please :)
    Paradise Tennant: shares her oatmeal cookies :))
    Pila Mulligan: thank you

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