07-09 - The Beatles Knew

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    Imagine my thrill to reach back montPicasso Image Peace.jpghs into the logs, and get to pour over some of my all-time favorite Play as Being sessions: One, in which Geo and Sophia discuss Love and Prayer, and a a few more where we attend to watching our thoughts arise.

    It seemed appropriate to weave other favorites in too.>grin< -Eliza, feeling groovy

    We begin with a good picture of making life practice, and visa versa, painted by Wol...




    2009.08.07 13:00 - thinking slowly

    Wol Euler: I've been doing something unusual at work lately, while waiting for the printer. I've started walking
    very very slowly, one foot in front of hte other, trying to take a full minute to cross a room.
    Wol Euler: it's amazingly difficult. /  or perhaps that's just me :)

    Bertram Jacobus: and - if i don't hold you too long : do you do also some spiritual practices in daily life ? :-)

    Wol Euler: mmmmm, I find that question hard to answer.
    Wol Euler: I'm inclined to say "yes, but none that would be recognized by any formal religion"
    Wol Euler: that bit about walking very slowly, deliberately and awarely, was an example
    Bertram Jacobus: nice/ and the known forms of meditation - not interesting or fitting for you ? did you try them or
    practice already some of them ? :-)
    Wol Euler: I do Nines irregularly, mostly as centering and grounding exercises when I am feeling stressed
    Bertram Jacobus: i see. nice again :-)
    Wol Euler: I meditate irregularly, at least not in formal meditation
    Bertram Jacobus: at the moment i'm happy : my work starts late enough so that is time and a nice feeling to
    meditate in a open way nearly everay morning
    Wol Euler: I try to do the Appreciation exercises that Pema suggested in the course of normal life, seeing what
    there is to appreciate while walking to work/ and while sitting on the bus :)
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. i see :-) / i'm also happy that here are people which with one can talk about all these topics ... :-)
    Wol Euler: it's hard to explain, but one thing I try is simply to say "yes" (inwardly) to everything I see.
    Bertram Jacobus: that's absolute not hard to explain ! ;-))
    Wol Euler: rather than thinking "that shirt fits badly" or whatever, just to see it and appreciate it without judgement./ and then, to say "yes" to/about it, and then to ask myself what that yes might mean. To look again, closely, to see if I can find beauty in it
    Bertram Jacobus: and that sounds wonderful to me ! :-)
    Wol Euler smiles. thank you.
    Bertram Jacobus: great ... so many ways ... i like that ... :-)

    Bertam Jacobus: and the linking part in all these ways is for my understanding - simply love ...
    Wol Euler: mmhmm.
    Wol Euler: Love is the key.
    Wol Euler: it took me decades to understand that.
    Bertram Jacobus: already the beatles knew that :-)

    Love is all you need...(Beatles)

    2009.08.07 19:00 - Prayer: Geo/Sophia theme session

    Geo Netizen: The nature of prayer is inextricably linked to the nature of the divine.
    Geo Netizen: As a Franciscan, I posit that this nature is three fold:
    Geo Netizen: God exists, God is Love and God is perfect;
    Geo Netizen: all other attributes of the divine flow from these and are moderated by them.
    Geo Netizen: Therefore, prayer is the pillow talk of lovers.
    Geo Netizen: As the beloved, I bring many different attitudes and dispositions to prayer depending on my current emotional state: I praise, cajole, petition, complain, promise, I am creative, I am repetitious, and sometimes, I just rest in the love.
    Geo Netizen: Now the lover desires the presence of the beloved and if the beloved comes because of obligation, is present because it is a good thing to do, is disciplined to do the right thing, the lover delights in the presence of the beloved.
    Geo Netizen: If, on the other hand, the beloved can hardly contain herself, arrives as early has she possibly can, wants to be no where else and with no one else but the lover, and she can hardly drag herself away when she must depart, this presence is the perfect gift of the beloved to the lover.
    Geo Netizen: Over the millenniums, we have been pulled between these two.

    Pema Pera: So we play the female role and God the male role, do I understand that correctly, Geo, in this metaphor, so to speak?
    Eliza Madrigal: exquisite, Geo
    Geo Netizen: Whether the role of male or female is lover or beloved is not important
    Pema Pera: but we are the beloved and God the lover?
    Pema Pera: or also the other way around?

    Geo Netizen: It is our experience based on our own being that matters

    sophia Placebo: prayer is considered a purification act , one time at which poeple look down themselves honstly , i remmber one member here talking about a silent retreat where the first barrier she has to break was looking down self , we struggle all our life in the disciplin of ourselves , making it more powerfull stable
    Geo Netizen: Stability is ultimately found in God as the lover and we the beloved
    sophia Placebo: prayer - salat the five times a day - is a daily approtunity to strenthen our ability to look at self as it is , prayer that we talk about here is handfull at times when self seek the closeness
    Geo Netizen: But the structure of salat is only the beginning

    sophia Placebo:i seek the closeness of God , the feeling that he is everywhere , knowing everything , i seek the peace knowing he knows what im going through with an eye of mercy , seeking the closeness by this whisper with him asking him the giudance , the power to the patienace
    sophia Placebo: prayer thus rises the hope , bringing it infront of eye , im not alone ,im not forgotton , im not just a thing
    Geo Netizen: I am the beloved
    Geo Netizen: You are the beloved
    sophia Placebo: but , as much as love as much as just , actually one cant put love with injust in one hand
    Geo Netizen nods
    sophia Placebo: the fear of Allah , of breaking hi laws , is also a factor
    sophia Placebo: here where the love is at its peak

    Geo Netizen: to dwell in the arms of the beloved is peace
    Geo Netizen: to move away is into the dry and barren desert
    Geo Netizen: And I am in the arms of the beloved when I love those beloved of the divine
    Fefonz Quan: which are everyone?
    Geo Netizen: Which I hope, by this time, everyone know I mean everyone here
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Geo Netizen: I understand the incredulity at this is a natural reaction
    Geo Netizen: In case anyone wants to say yes ... but ... :)
    Eliza Madrigal: We are still in the arms of the beloved in the desert?
    Geo Netizen: Yes!!
    Resting Thor: sounds like a blissful path :)
    Geo Netizen: We have moved into the desert but that does not change the perfection of divine love
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Geo Netizen: the lover for us the beloved
    Geo Netizen: Ahhh yes Resting ... the tie into Buddhism :)
    Pema Pera: with the love being unconditional we can truly give up grasping and judging
    SophiaSharon Larnia: does envisioning a 'he' (or 'she' or neither) enforce asense of separation, or can this be seen as one coming home
    Geo Netizen: That as a difficulty flows strongly from our own background SophiaSharon
    Geo Netizen: I posit that it ultimately makes no difference
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you :)
    sophia Placebo: true pema , no one knows what inside of each one of us , no one nows what one did and why ,and somtimes we dont know even our own deeds ,and the mercy is for everyone
    Geo Netizen: So when night comes to each of us, perhaps we can indulge in some pillow talk today :)
    Adams Rubble: :)

    ~ The movement you need is on your shoulder...   (Beatles)

    2009.08.08 07:00 - To Pray : To ask, to thank, to drop and to hope

    Pema Pera: Mick, if you like to pray, how about praying for yourself, for obstacles to real seeing to be dropped?
    Pema Pera: not a prayer to get something extra, but rather to have something taken away?
    Mickorod Renard: I would like to, but I find praying an obstacle
    Mickorod Renard: theres no hope for me / he he
    sophia Placebo: :)
    Pema Pera: it's great to drop hope, Mick :-)
    Pema Pera: much easier to drop fear then too!
    Mickorod Renard: I see what you mean Pema,,and I think I do subconciously let lil prayers like that slip out
    Mickorod Renard: I think one hurdle is that I feel my deeds must be without personal reward,,and as such to ask for myeslf would feel like I ask for reward
    Pema Pera: such a prayer may also be a way to remind yourself not to fight your perceived insufficiencies, but rather to just let them slip away, drop off, like ripe fruit
    Pema Pera: as for selfishness: if you see more clearly you can help others more clearly
    Pema Pera: if you don't, you're likely to hurt more than help . . . the road to hell is paved with good intentions
    Pema Pera: so praying to see more clearly may be the fastest way to help others, really!
    Mickorod Renard: yes, I think they are very wise words Pema
    sophia Placebo nods
    Pema Pera: it took me a few decades to learn that, Mick, the hard way :-)
    Mickorod Renard: I think I am a fledgling plant trying to grow but suppressed by an overgrowth of weeds
    Mickorod Renard: I am running out of decades Pema
    Pema Pera: so ask in your prayer for all the weeds to disappear overnight, why not?
    Pema Pera: can always ask :)
    Pema Pera: what do you think, may that be possible?
    Pema Pera: or do you think God/Universe/Being is too weak or flaky to do that?

    2009.08.08 13:00 - Examining

    SophiaSharon Larnia: no one is here to judge you, I do forget this and censor myself all of the time
    Bertram Jacobus: and i ask myself, wheather it was okay to be destructive also in relation to ideas from which i may think, that they are "not right" (??) ...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I have an opinion that others may not share, that sometimes, to clean the house, you have to make more of a mess, in the sense of pulling everything out and examining it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but the word 'mess' doesn't mean a 'mess', just more things to look at
    doug Sosa: "Not right" implies that there are ideas that are right. I rather think that sme are better than others but never reach the stage of "right".
    SophiaSharon Larnia: true doug

    2009.08.08 19:00 - Sustainability

    Pema Pera: I asked about the sustainability of sustainability
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Pema Pera: and true enough, they were concerned about that :)

    Mo.jpgNothing’s gonna change my world... (Beatles)

    Eos Amaterasu: question is whether individual awareness can develop without calamity
    doug Sosa: The very idea of "individual" is a social construct, arriving late on the scene.
    Vajra Radikal: yes however it is the individual executing decisions that impact sustainability
    Vajra Radikal: yiur decision of buying a desktop or a laptop
    Vajra Radikal: a plasma vs lcd
    Vajra Radikal: all of those have impacts
    Vajra Radikal: sustainability or lack thereof resides in the cumulative
    Vajra Radikal: impact of our decisions
    doug Sosa: The decision to cut down indnesian forests is not such a decision.
    doug Sosa: The voting on cap and trade is not individual.
    Vajra Radikal: yes it is if you keep on choosing product
    Vajra Radikal: coming from that forest
    doug Sosa: lets say you and i chose not to buy those products, the product then is cheaper for those who do buy.
    Vajra Radikal: if the individual keeps on directing
    Eos Amaterasu: individual thoughts are mostly on auto-pilot thru societal/communal means/ memes

    Eos Amaterasu: people do not see what they/we are paying for

    You can talk to me... If you're lonely you can talk to me... 

    2009.08.09 01:00 - Right and wrong?

    Moon Fargis: well sometimes truth also hurts/ but can truth be a mistake ?
    Stargate Tone: sometimes even that can be the mistake to tell
    Bertram Jacobus: i think talking can be a mistake and not to speak can be better sometimes
    Stargate Tone: ah yes; agree
    Fael Illyar: even if, to not hurt now will mean much more hurt tomorrow?
    Stargate Tone: can be so
    Bertram Jacobus: that is what i do still very often in a wrong way for my opinion : i don´t be silent enough ...
    Fael Illyar: would that still be a mistake to hurt the little now, instead of a lot tomorrow?
    Stargate Tone: could be so too Fael
    Stargate Tone: ah Bert; I've never met person who's perfectly known always if to keep silence or not
    Bertram Jacobus: i don´t think so fael, but one has to be very wide seeing to do such things in a good manner - iw ould doubt often if i could do so
    Stargate Tone: but...like you thought that U want to apologize; that's the best way to live to my opinion

    Blackbird singing in the dead of night.
    Take these broken wings and learn to fly.
    All your life,
    You were only waiting,
    for this moment to arise.... (Beatles)

    2009.08.09 07:00 - Watching, Hearing and Smelling

    Pema Pera: we are SO used to watching thoughts for their meaning, milking them like a cow to get the meaning out . . .  we barely knows what it means to just watch them
    Pema Pera: without milking . . . .

    Pema Pera: feel free to all type your responses to the exploration, don't be shy!
    Bertram Jacobus: i only feel a kind of being relaxed ...
    Wol Euler: well, I realized that there are always thoughts going on, it's a constant stream or the surface of a lake of thought/when I believe that I am not thinking, I realized that here is a thought of "now I am not thinking at all"
    Eliza Madrigal nods!!
    Pema Pera: !!!
    Wol Euler: and then "me" thinking about that thought about not thinking...
    Pema Pera: isn't it fun, to have fun playing with your own mind, watching your own mind play -- always at hand!
    Wol Euler: but the thoughts come _down_ to me, like flakes of snow or rather like letters on torn paper

    Pema Pera: but each time is different
    Pema Pera: it seems boring as long as you focus on content
    Pema Pera: but focus on texture, everything gets interesting

    Listen to the colour of your dreams ... (Beatles)

    Pema Pera: Bert, does it make sense, to watch the thoughts, like pages in a book that you don't have to
    read, just admire the color, the shape, the texture?
    Bertram Jacobus: takes a deep breath ...
    Pema Pera: the shape of the letters?
    Pema Pera: the smell, the feel?
    Pema Pera: the way the light reflects off it?
    Wol Euler smiles
    Bertram Jacobus: i´m not sure, i don´t know - what is sense ? may be - i always aim to the ultimate, the only real sense i know - if there is something like that. i don´t know. but it feels nice
    Pema Pera: in more than one way
    Pema Pera: the "ultimate" is a thought, Bert, just drop that thought and you may finally have room for what really is ulltimate!

    Pema Pera: great! Those gaps can be enormous sources of energy and creativity, but we can't make them happen

    Pema Pera: I noticed how difficult it was to separate thoughts from feelings and images . . . and I just watched them all
    Wol Euler: it might be easier to ignore the skeptical inner voice when in a group all doing the same
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Adams Rubble: I have learned from each of you today :)

    Wol Euler: well, my memories are usually immersive. I hear the birdsong in SL, and it reminds me of a garden in Italy where I sat one summer more than 30 years ago :)
    Wol Euler: and I feel the sun and the breeeze and the grasss in my palm, and see the view and smell the trees
    Eliza Madrigal: MMM
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Wol Euler: for that X-th fraction of a second it blots out RL and SL entirely.

    Wol Euler: it´'s odd how some things stick and others don't. That was one second out of a day, in a month in Italy.
    Wol Euler: Why did I remember that instant in the garden, and not what I ate for lunch on the same day?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, one wonders if it was the 'quality' of your attention in that moment... or...
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm inclined to say more than what I think stuck.
    Bertram Jacobus: may be some experiences fit better to our patterns in any way and so they stay longer with us ?
    Wol Euler nods
    Eliza Madrigal: It plays with one's notion of time as well
    Eliza Madrigal: So 'much' happened/happens in a blip... then permeates the rest of life..
    Bertram Jacobus: yes ..
    Eliza Madrigal: like a weightiness or lightness
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Bertram Jacobus: time ... related to speed (!) really strange ... ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Wol can live that moment anywhere... is a wonderous thing
    Wol Euler smiles and nods.
    Wol Euler: the garden is in me now

    I look at the world and I notice it's turning.
    While my guitar, gently weeps.
    With every mistake we must surely be learning.
    Still my guitar, gently weeps

    Paradise Tennant: well simple works best on all fronts ..you do not ignore the pain but try to shift your focus to your breath/ breath is relazing neutral .. easy/ the pain is perception just like everything else
    Pema Pera: yes, phenomena, appearances . . . .
    Adams Rubble: Nicley put, paradise :)
    Pema Pera: the base level "stuff" of everything, so-called inner and so-called outer
    Pema Pera: in any situation we can stop trying to prop ourselves up, and instead rest on the basic level of phenomena, our ground; and then we can recognize Being as the ground of our ground, the ground of what appears


    ~~ The wind is low the birds will sing
         That you are part of everything
    ...  (

    2009.08.09 13:00 - Various 'arisings'

    Maxine Walden: I found myself focussing on the mist in the center of the pool...
    Maxine Walden: I think to let my words or other shards of thought dissolve a bit as I try to get into the
    experience ...also aware of my pulse...maybe a bit anxious as I enter/re-enter the experience here
    Maxine Walden: (end of first thoughts, may have more later)

    Eos Amaterasu: RL bird sound; piggy-back thought, fondly: it's our house robin; triple-piggy back: labelling
    as piggy-back; humor, let go...
    Pema Pera: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: welling up like the fountain mist

    SophiaSharon Larnia: I was seeing my thought arise like water, almost literally, ephemeral, and found myself pushing away thoughts that were 'mundane' i.e. everyday things
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it is in the everyday things
    Pema Pera: would it be hard not to push away any thoughts, Sophia?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sometimes more than others
    Pema Pera: one challenge of this exploration is to not show preference to thoughts, Sophia, to let all thoughts come and go, without encouraging some and repressing others
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes I know thats why i noticed it more acutely
    Pema Pera: ah, I see, great, thanks Sophia! this exploration encourages exactly seeing all that more

    Davina Bazylinska: What do you mean when you say the "texture" of thoughts?
    Pema Pera: I mean anything that is not associated with meaning, value
    Pema Pera: anything that doesn't point away from the thought
    Pema Pera: to something else
    Pema Pera: does that make sense?
    Pema Pera: like the texture of a piece of paper in a book
    Pema Pera: instead of the meaning of the words
    Davina Bazylinska: Sort of. So does it have to do with the emotional quality of the thought?
    Pema Pera: no, not necessarily / just the sheer presence
    Wol Euler: a way to think of this might be to consider your arising thoughts as letters, and to consider the envelope and the postman :)
    Wol Euler: not the letter itself, but how does it get to you? is it wrapped? does it drop through the slot or slide under the door? / to try to see the arising of thoughts, not the thoughts themselves.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: brought by a courier Wol ;)
    Wol Euler: exactly :)
    Pema Pera: nice images, Wol !

    Eos Amaterasu: no further message other than the arrival
    Pema Pera: yes, Eos, the sheer presence
    Eos Amaterasu: we do tend to have double and triple thoughts, but we can "humor" that

    Pila Mulligan: Doug's thoughts are preliminarily conditioned by the presence of others; Pema hints that his thoughts appear to have textures; Wol's thoughts drift down like falling snow -- these ideas suggest that we exercise our minds within a context, somewhat the same as we dream

    Wol Euler: I have scraps of Mozart floating in my mind that just won't go away.
    Eos Amaterasu: (yum)
    Eliza Madrigal: cat crunching food, phone , phone, phone, phone, warmth on face, gate, birds
    Maxine Walden: I was aware of the group, and our being together but each with our own signature ways og being/trying/questioning/doubting, all surrounded by the birdsong and there being to 'right ways'
    SophiaSharon Larnia: saw a blank white page now (got the idea of texture in my mind now) :)
    Maxine Walden: a pleasant sort of dreamscape but with poignance as we each seem to struggle in our own way
    Wol Euler nods
    Maxine Walden: and often we feel we need to keep that struggle to ourselves...
    Eliza Madrigal: each time today has been very different
    Maxine Walden: so interesting, Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal nods/ Watching the thoughts,often there is a layer of awareness (of essence) beneath that... like minds occupied so Being engages?
    Maxine Walden: hmmm, Eliza
    Wol Euler: I'm aware of at least four layers: Mozart echoing, thoughts arising out of sounds and memories, a breathless nature-documentary host composing commentary, and "me" telling him to shut up
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Maxine Walden: smiles at Wol
    Eos Amaterasu: the watcher is sometimes extra with its own texture
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmmmm

     2009.08.09 19:00 - Three Tai Chi-er

    Qt Core: just kidding, love this kind of question but is time to go
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Ciao!
    Qt Core: Ciao!
    Eos Amaterasu: (synchronicity)
    Eos Amaterasu: were we one or two at that moment?
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Wol Euler: clearly your atmen touched at that moment
    Eos Amaterasu: atmen :-)
    Wol Euler: sure, the plural of atman :)

    ~~  Sit beside a mountain stream--see her waters rise... Listen to the pretty sound of music as she flies.

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: contrast is required to have appearance.
    Pila Mulligan: contrast is also satisfying to the mental appetite
    Pila Mulligan: the minds desire to describe
    Pila Mulligan: but behind it all is the idea of emptiness
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: exactly.
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, hard to have no contrast even in appearance
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: the uncontrasted state..
    Pila Mulligan: wu chi, in Chinese
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: is interesting in itself..if we are quiet enough?
    stevenaia Michinaga: like Being

    Pila Mulligan: imagine yourself in a room looking at beautiful paintings and poems about Paris ...
    Pila Mulligan: then realizing that the room itself is in Paris
    Pila Mulligan: so you can step outside
    Pila Mulligan: part a is like thoughts
    Pila Mulligan: part b is like real

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