07-09 - The Beatles Knew

Imagine my thrill to reach back months into the logs, and get to pour over some of my all-time favorite Play as Being sessions: One, in which Geo and Sophia discuss Love and Prayer, and a a few more where we attend to watching our thoughts arise.

It seemed appropriate to weave other favorites in too.>grin< -Eliza, feeling groovy

We begin with a good picture of making life practice, and visa versa, painted by Wol...

2009.08.07 13:00 - thinking slowly

Wol Euler: I've been doing something unusual at work lately, while waiting for the printer. I've started walking
very very slowly, one foot in front of hte other, trying to take a full minute to cross a room.
Wol Euler: it's amazingly difficult. /  or perhaps that's just me :)

Bertram Jacobus: and - if i don't hold you too long : do you do also some spiritual practices in daily life ? :-)

Wol Euler: mmmmm, I find that question hard to answer.
Wol Euler: I'm inclined to say "yes, but none that would be recognized by any formal religion"
Wol Euler: that bit about walking very slowly, deliberately and awarely, was an example
Bertram Jacobus: nice/ and the known forms of meditation - not interesting or fitting for you ? did you try them or
practice already some of them ? :-)
Wol Euler: I do Nines irregularly, mostly as centering and grounding exercises when I am feeling stressed
Bertram Jacobus: i see. nice again :-)
Wol Euler: I meditate irregularly, at least not in formal meditation
Bertram Jacobus: at the moment i'm happy : my work starts late enough so that is time and a nice feeling to
meditate in a open way nearly everay morning
Wol Euler: I try to do the Appreciation exercises that Pema suggested in the course of normal life, seeing what
there is to appreciate while walking to work/ and while sitting on the bus :)
Bertram Jacobus: yes. i see :-) / i'm also happy that here are people which with one can talk about all these topics ... :-)
Wol Euler: it's hard to explain, but one thing I try is simply to say "yes" (inwardly) to everything I see.
Bertram Jacobus: that's absolute not hard to explain ! ;-))
Wol Euler: rather than thinking "that shirt fits badly" or whatever, just to see it and appreciate it without judgement./ and then, to say "yes" to/about it, and then to ask myself what that yes might mean. To look again, closely, to see if I can find beauty in it
Bertram Jacobus: and that sounds wonderful to me ! :-)
Wol Euler smiles. thank you.
Bertram Jacobus: great ... so many ways ... i like that ... :-)

Bertam Jacobus: and the linking part in all these ways is for my understanding - simply love ...
Wol Euler: mmhmm.
Wol Euler: Love is the key.
Wol Euler: it took me decades to understand that.
Bertram Jacobus: already the beatles knew that :-)

Love is all you need...(Beatles)

2009.08.07 19:00 - Prayer: Geo/Sophia theme session

Geo Netizen: The nature of prayer is inextricably linked to the nature of the divine.
Geo Netizen: As a Franciscan, I posit that this nature is three fold:
Geo Netizen: God exists, God is Love and God is perfect;
Geo Netizen: all other attributes of the divine flow from these and are moderated by them.
Geo Netizen: Therefore, prayer is the pillow talk of lovers.
Geo Netizen: As the beloved, I bring many different attitudes and dispositions to prayer depending on my current emotional state: I praise, cajole, petition, complain, promise, I am creative, I am repetitious, and sometimes, I just rest in the love.
Geo Netizen: Now the lover desires the presence of the beloved and if the beloved comes because of obligation, is present because it is a good thing to do, is disciplined to do the right thing, the lover delights in the presence of the beloved.
Geo Netizen: If, on the other hand, the beloved can hardly contain herself, arrives as early has she possibly can, wants to be no where else and with no one else but the lover, and she can hardly drag herself away when she must depart, this presence is the perfect gift of the beloved to the lover.
Geo Netizen: Over the millenniums, we have been pulled between these two.

Pema Pera: So we play the female role and God the male role, do I understand that correctly, Geo, in this metaphor, so to speak?
Eliza Madrigal: exquisite, Geo
Geo Netizen: Whether the role of male or female is lover or beloved is not important
Pema Pera: but we are the beloved and God the lover?
Pema Pera: or also the other way around?

Geo Netizen: It is our experience based on our own being that matters

sophia Placebo: prayer is considered a purification act , one time at which poeple look down themselves honstly , i remmber one member here talking about a silent retreat where the first barrier she has to break was looking down self , we struggle all our life in the disciplin of ourselves , making it more powerfull stable
Geo Netizen: Stability is ultimately found in God as the lover and we the beloved
sophia Placebo: prayer - salat the five times a day - is a daily approtunity to strenthen our ability to look at self as it is , prayer that we talk about here is handfull at times when self seek the closeness
Geo Netizen: But the structure of salat is only the beginning

sophia Placebo:i seek the closeness of God , the feeling that he is everywhere , knowing everything , i seek the peace knowing he knows what im going through with an eye of mercy , seeking the closeness by this whisper with him asking him the giudance , the power to the patienace
sophia Placebo: prayer thus rises the hope , bringing it infront of eye , im not alone ,im not forgotton , im not just a thing
Geo Netizen: I am the beloved
Geo Netizen: You are the beloved
sophia Placebo: but , as much as love as much as just , actually one cant put love with injust in one hand
Geo Netizen nods
sophia Placebo: the fear of Allah , of breaking hi laws , is also a factor
sophia Placebo: here where the love is at its peak

Geo Netizen: to dwell in the arms of the beloved is peace
Geo Netizen: to move away is into the dry and barren desert
Geo Netizen: And I am in the arms of the beloved when I love those beloved of the divine
Fefonz Quan: which are everyone?
Geo Netizen: Which I hope, by this time, everyone know I mean everyone here
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: Yes :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Geo Netizen: I understand the incredulity at this is a natural reaction
Geo Netizen: In case anyone wants to say yes ... but ... :)
Eliza Madrigal: We are still in the arms of the beloved in the desert?
Geo Netizen: Yes!!
Resting Thor: sounds like a blissful path :)
Geo Netizen: We have moved into the desert but that does not change the perfection of divine love
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Geo Netizen: the lover for us the beloved
Geo Netizen: Ahhh yes Resting ... the tie into Buddhism :)
Pema Pera: with the love being unconditional we can truly give up grasping and judging
SophiaSharon Larnia: does envisioning a 'he' (or 'she' or neither) enforce asense of separation, or can this be seen as one coming home
Geo Netizen: That as a difficulty flows strongly from our own background SophiaSharon
Geo Netizen: I posit that it ultimately makes no difference
SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you :)
sophia Placebo: true pema , no one knows what inside of each one of us , no one nows what one did and why ,and somtimes we dont know even our own deeds ,and the mercy is for everyone
Geo Netizen: So when night comes to each of us, perhaps we can indulge in some pillow talk today :)
Adams Rubble: :)

~ The movement you need is on your shoulder...   (Beatles)

2009.08.08 07:00 - To Pray : To ask, to thank, to drop and to hope

Pema Pera: Mick, if you like to pray, how about praying for yourself, for obstacles to real seeing to be dropped?
Pema Pera: not a prayer to get something extra, but rather to have something taken away?
Mickorod Renard: I would like to, but I find praying an obstacle
Mickorod Renard: theres no hope for me / he he
sophia Placebo: :)
Pema Pera: it's great to drop hope, Mick :-)
Pema Pera: much easier to drop fear then too!
Mickorod Renard: I see what you mean Pema,,and I think I do subconciously let lil prayers like that slip out
Mickorod Renard: I think one hurdle is that I feel my deeds must be without personal reward,,and as such to ask for myeslf would feel like I ask for reward
Pema Pera: such a prayer may also be a way to remind yourself not to fight your perceived insufficiencies, but rather to just let them slip away, drop off, like ripe fruit
Pema Pera: as for selfishness: if you see more clearly you can help others more clearly
Pema Pera: if you don't, you're likely to hurt more than help . . . the road to hell is paved with good intentions
Pema Pera: so praying to see more clearly may be the fastest way to help others, really!
Mickorod Renard: yes, I think they are very wise words Pema
sophia Placebo nods
Pema Pera: it took me a few decades to learn that, Mick, the hard way :-)
Mickorod Renard: I think I am a fledgling plant trying to grow but suppressed by an overgrowth of weeds
Mickorod Renard: I am running out of decades Pema
Pema Pera: so ask in your prayer for all the weeds to disappear overnight, why not?
Pema Pera: can always ask :)
Pema Pera: what do you think, may that be possible?
Pema Pera: or do you think God/Universe/Being is too weak or flaky to do that?

2009.08.08 13:00 - Examining

SophiaSharon Larnia: no one is here to judge you, I do forget this and censor myself all of the time
Bertram Jacobus: and i ask myself, wheather it was okay to be destructive also in relation to ideas from which i may think, that they are "not right" (??) ...
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have an opinion that others may not share, that sometimes, to clean the house, you have to make more of a mess, in the sense of pulling everything out and examining it
SophiaSharon Larnia: but the word 'mess' doesn't mean a 'mess', just more things to look at
doug Sosa: "Not right" implies that there are ideas that are right. I rather think that sme are better than others but never reach the stage of "right".
SophiaSharon Larnia: true doug

2009.08.08 19:00 - Sustainability

Pema Pera: I asked about the sustainability of sustainability
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Pema Pera: and true enough, they were concerned about that :)

Nothing’s gonna change my world... (Beatles)

Eos Amaterasu: question is whether individual awareness can develop without calamity
doug Sosa: The very idea of "individual" is a social construct, arriving late on the scene.
Vajra Radikal: yes however it is the individual executing decisions that impact sustainability
Vajra Radikal: yiur decision of buying a desktop or a laptop
Vajra Radikal: a plasma vs lcd
Vajra Radikal: all of those have impacts
Vajra Radikal: sustainability or lack thereof resides in the cumulative
Vajra Radikal: impact of our decisions
doug Sosa: The decision to cut down indnesian forests is not such a decision.
doug Sosa: The voting on cap and trade is not individual.
Vajra Radikal: yes it is if you keep on choosing product
Vajra Radikal: coming from that forest
doug Sosa: lets say you and i chose not to buy those products, the product then is cheaper for those who do buy.
Vajra Radikal: if the individual keeps on directing
Eos Amaterasu: individual thoughts are mostly on auto-pilot thru societal/communal means/ memes

Eos Amaterasu: people do not see what they/we are paying for
~~

You can talk to me... If you're lonely you can talk to me... 

2009.08.09 01:00 - Right and wrong?

Moon Fargis: well sometimes truth also hurts/ but can truth be a mistake ?
Stargate Tone: sometimes even that can be the mistake to tell
Bertram Jacobus: i think talking can be a mistake and not to speak can be better sometimes
Stargate Tone: ah yes; agree
Fael Illyar: even if, to not hurt now will mean much more hurt tomorrow?
Stargate Tone: can be so
Bertram Jacobus: that is what i do still very often in a wrong way for my opinion : i don´t be silent enough ...
Fael Illyar: would that still be a mistake to hurt the little now, instead of a lot tomorrow?
Stargate Tone: could be so too Fael
Stargate Tone: ah Bert; I've never met person who's perfectly known always if to keep silence or not
Bertram Jacobus: i don´t think so fael, but one has to be very wide seeing to do such things in a good manner - iw ould doubt often if i could do so
Stargate Tone: but...like you thought that U want to apologize; that's the best way to live to my opinion
~~

Blackbird singing in the dead of night.
Take these broken wings and learn to fly.
All your life,
You were only waiting,
for this moment to arise.... (Beatles)

2009.08.09 07:00 - Watching, Hearing and Smelling

Pema Pera: we are SO used to watching thoughts for their meaning, milking them like a cow to get the meaning out . . .  we barely knows what it means to just watch them
Pema Pera: without milking . . . .

Pema Pera: feel free to all type your responses to the exploration, don't be shy!
Bertram Jacobus: i only feel a kind of being relaxed ...
Wol Euler: well, I realized that there are always thoughts going on, it's a constant stream or the surface of a lake of thought/when I believe that I am not thinking, I realized that here is a thought of "now I am not thinking at all"
Eliza Madrigal nods!!
Pema Pera: !!!
Wol Euler: and then "me" thinking about that thought about not thinking...
Pema Pera: isn't it fun, to have fun playing with your own mind, watching your own mind play -- always at hand!
Wol Euler: but the thoughts come _down_ to me, like flakes of snow or rather like letters on torn paper

Pema Pera: but each time is different
Pema Pera: it seems boring as long as you focus on content
Pema Pera: but focus on texture, everything gets interesting

Listen to the colour of your dreams ... (Beatles)

Pema Pera: Bert, does it make sense, to watch the thoughts, like pages in a book that you don't have to
read, just admire the color, the shape, the texture?
Bertram Jacobus: takes a deep breath ...
Pema Pera: the shape of the letters?
Pema Pera: the smell, the feel?
Pema Pera: the way the light reflects off it?
Wol Euler smiles
Bertram Jacobus: i´m not sure, i don´t know - what is sense ? may be - i always aim to the ultimate, the only real sense i know - if there is something like that. i don´t know. but it feels nice
Pema Pera: in more than one way
Pema Pera: the "ultimate" is a thought, Bert, just drop that thought and you may finally have room for what really is ulltimate!

Pema Pera: great! Those gaps can be enormous sources of energy and creativity, but we can't make them happen

Pema Pera: I noticed how difficult it was to separate thoughts from feelings and images . . . and I just watched them all
Wol Euler: it might be easier to ignore the skeptical inner voice when in a group all doing the same
Eliza Madrigal nods
Adams Rubble: I have learned from each of you today :)

Wol Euler: well, my memories are usually immersive. I hear the birdsong in SL, and it reminds me of a garden in Italy where I sat one summer more than 30 years ago :)
Wol Euler: and I feel the sun and the breeeze and the grasss in my palm, and see the view and smell the trees
Eliza Madrigal: MMM
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Wol Euler: for that X-th fraction of a second it blots out RL and SL entirely.

Wol Euler: it´'s odd how some things stick and others don't. That was one second out of a day, in a month in Italy.
Wol Euler: Why did I remember that instant in the garden, and not what I ate for lunch on the same day?
Eliza Madrigal: yes, one wonders if it was the 'quality' of your attention in that moment... or...
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm inclined to say more than what I think stuck.
Bertram Jacobus: may be some experiences fit better to our patterns in any way and so they stay longer with us ?
Wol Euler nods
Eliza Madrigal: It plays with one's notion of time as well
Eliza Madrigal: So 'much' happened/happens in a blip... then permeates the rest of life..
Bertram Jacobus: yes ..
Eliza Madrigal: like a weightiness or lightness
Gaya Ethaniel nods.
Bertram Jacobus: time ... related to speed (!) really strange ... ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: Wol can live that moment anywhere... is a wonderous thing
Wol Euler smiles and nods.
Wol Euler: the garden is in me now

I look at the world and I notice it's turning.
While my guitar, gently weeps.
With every mistake we must surely be learning.
Still my guitar, gently weeps... (Beatles)

Paradise Tennant: well simple works best on all fronts ..you do not ignore the pain but try to shift your focus to your breath/ breath is relazing neutral .. easy/ the pain is perception just like everything else
Pema Pera: yes, phenomena, appearances . . . .
Adams Rubble: Nicley put, paradise :)
Pema Pera: the base level "stuff" of everything, so-called inner and so-called outer
Pema Pera: in any situation we can stop trying to prop ourselves up, and instead rest on the basic level of phenomena, our ground; and then we can recognize Being as the ground of our ground, the ground of what appears

~~ The wind is low the birds will sing
     That you are part of everything...  (Beatles)

2009.08.09 13:00 - Various 'arisings'

Maxine Walden: I found myself focussing on the mist in the center of the pool...
Maxine Walden: I think to let my words or other shards of thought dissolve a bit as I try to get into the
experience ...also aware of my pulse...maybe a bit anxious as I enter/re-enter the experience here
Maxine Walden: (end of first thoughts, may have more later)

Eos Amaterasu: RL bird sound; piggy-back thought, fondly: it's our house robin; triple-piggy back: labelling
as piggy-back; humor, let go...
Pema Pera: :)
Eos Amaterasu: welling up like the fountain mist

SophiaSharon Larnia: I was seeing my thought arise like water, almost literally, ephemeral, and found myself pushing away thoughts that were 'mundane' i.e. everyday things
SophiaSharon Larnia: it is in the everyday things
Pema Pera: would it be hard not to push away any thoughts, Sophia?
SophiaSharon Larnia: sometimes more than others
Pema Pera: one challenge of this exploration is to not show preference to thoughts, Sophia, to let all thoughts come and go, without encouraging some and repressing others
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes I know thats why i noticed it more acutely
Pema Pera: ah, I see, great, thanks Sophia! this exploration encourages exactly seeing all that more

Davina Bazylinska: What do you mean when you say the "texture" of thoughts?
Pema Pera: I mean anything that is not associated with meaning, value
Pema Pera: anything that doesn't point away from the thought
Pema Pera: to something else
Pema Pera: does that make sense?
Pema Pera: like the texture of a piece of paper in a book
Pema Pera: instead of the meaning of the words
Davina Bazylinska: Sort of. So does it have to do with the emotional quality of the thought?
Pema Pera: no, not necessarily / just the sheer presence
Wol Euler: a way to think of this might be to consider your arising thoughts as letters, and to consider the envelope and the postman :)
Wol Euler: not the letter itself, but how does it get to you? is it wrapped? does it drop through the slot or slide under the door? / to try to see the arising of thoughts, not the thoughts themselves.
SophiaSharon Larnia: brought by a courier Wol ;)
Wol Euler: exactly :)
Pema Pera: nice images, Wol !

Eos Amaterasu: no further message other than the arrival
Pema Pera: yes, Eos, the sheer presence
Eos Amaterasu: we do tend to have double and triple thoughts, but we can "humor" that

Pila Mulligan: Doug's thoughts are preliminarily conditioned by the presence of others; Pema hints that his thoughts appear to have textures; Wol's thoughts drift down like falling snow -- these ideas suggest that we exercise our minds within a context, somewhat the same as we dream

Wol Euler: I have scraps of Mozart floating in my mind that just won't go away.
Eos Amaterasu: (yum)
Eliza Madrigal: cat crunching food, phone , phone, phone, phone, warmth on face, gate, birds
Maxine Walden: I was aware of the group, and our being together but each with our own signature ways og being/trying/questioning/doubting, all surrounded by the birdsong and there being to 'right ways'
SophiaSharon Larnia: saw a blank white page now (got the idea of texture in my mind now) :)
Maxine Walden: a pleasant sort of dreamscape but with poignance as we each seem to struggle in our own way
Wol Euler nods
Maxine Walden: and often we feel we need to keep that struggle to ourselves...
Eliza Madrigal: each time today has been very different
Maxine Walden: so interesting, Eliza
Eliza Madrigal nods/ Watching the thoughts,often there is a layer of awareness (of essence) beneath that... like minds occupied so Being engages?
Maxine Walden: hmmm, Eliza
Wol Euler: I'm aware of at least four layers: Mozart echoing, thoughts arising out of sounds and memories, a breathless nature-documentary host composing commentary, and "me" telling him to shut up
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Maxine Walden: smiles at Wol
Eos Amaterasu: the watcher is sometimes extra with its own texture
Eliza Madrigal: Hmmmm

 2009.08.09 19:00 - Three Tai Chi-er

Qt Core: just kidding, love this kind of question but is time to go
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eos Amaterasu: Ciao!
Qt Core: Ciao!
Eos Amaterasu: (synchronicity)
Eos Amaterasu: were we one or two at that moment?
Pila Mulligan: :)
Wol Euler: clearly your atmen touched at that moment
Eos Amaterasu: atmen :-)
Wol Euler: sure, the plural of atman :)

~~  Sit beside a mountain stream--see her waters rise... Listen to the pretty sound of music as she flies.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: contrast is required to have appearance.
Pila Mulligan: contrast is also satisfying to the mental appetite
Pila Mulligan: the minds desire to describe
Pila Mulligan: but behind it all is the idea of emptiness
Corvuscorva Nightfire: exactly.
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, hard to have no contrast even in appearance
Corvuscorva Nightfire: the uncontrasted state..
Pila Mulligan: wu chi, in Chinese
Corvuscorva Nightfire: is interesting in itself..if we are quiet enough?
stevenaia Michinaga: like Being

Pila Mulligan: imagine yourself in a room looking at beautiful paintings and poems about Paris ...
Pila Mulligan: then realizing that the room itself is in Paris
Pila Mulligan: so you can step outside
Pila Mulligan: part a is like thoughts
Pila Mulligan: part b is like real