13-15 - Minding Edges

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    (Eliza Scribing)

     "Let us not pray to be sheltered from dangers but to be fearless when facing them." Tagore  


    2010.02.13 13:00 - Smiling at Fear 

    Eos Amaterasu: Today is "neutral day" - after the previous year's bad stuff has all been piled up, and with the New Year tiger about to leap out tomorrow
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ooooh is that it????
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i feel something ...  lol

    Eos Amaterasu: http://www.amazon.com/Smile-Fear-Awa.../dp/1590306961
    arabella Ella: Chogyam Trungpa
    Eos Amaterasu: roar :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: very straightforward language
    Eos Amaterasu: start where you are is really start at the end
    Eos Amaterasu: cause there's nowhere else to go
    Bertram Jacobus: transformations ...
    Eos Amaterasu: where we are is often tinged with fear(s)
    Bertram Jacobus: dissolving illusions ...
    Eos Amaterasu: not escaping hard realities
    arabella Ella: facing fear? how?
    Bertram Jacobus: like every facing
    Eos Amaterasu: first opening the eyes a crack
    Eos Amaterasu: and acknowledging the fear that's there
    Eos Amaterasu: quick little peek
    Eos Amaterasu: look again
    Eos Amaterasu: maybe it's there
    Eos Amaterasu: maybe not
    Eos Amaterasu: make a little bit friends with it, humor it
    Eos Amaterasu: back & forth
    SophiaSharon Larnia: humor it?
    Eos Amaterasu: yeah, if you push it away it takes on more ugly faces
    Eos Amaterasu: it's like in dreams, when you look at and speak to the fearful thingie or person, it usually gets a lot more normal
    Widget Whiteberry: breathing regularly helps too
    arabella Ella nods
    Eos Amaterasu: being ordinary, accepting it in ordinariness

    2010.02.13 19:00 - Dancing on Rooftop 

    Eos Amaterasu: the year of the metal white tiger is upon us
    Benedizione Vita: metal white tiger?
    Eos Amaterasu: The Chinese New Year
    Benedizione Vita: but metal...?
    Benedizione Vita: and white...?
    Eos Amaterasu: they go in cycles of elements: earth, water, fire, air, metal x 12 animals = 60-year cycles
    Eos Amaterasu: don't know about the white tiger aspect

    Eden Haiku: Dancing on rooftop/Listening to ' psychic city/ My own Bollywood

    Pema Pera: it may be difficult to answer, Eden, but is there anything so far in your travel that has been especially unexpected?
    Pema Pera: or different from your ideas beforehand?
    Archmage Atlantis: Like seeing Avatar in Hindi?
    Pema Pera: :)
    Eden Haiku: Hum. It is my 3rd time in India. I spent almost 2 years here a long time ago. Every time is so different. I am different. This is the unexpected part.
    Eden Haiku: Last time I was not in an ashram, traveling by myself. Lots of fear then. Not now. Still anger sometimes

    Eos Amaterasu: "Beyond the beliefs / of any one religion / there is the truth of /the human spirit"
    Eos Amaterasu: Happy Metal Tiger year, btw!

    2010.02.14 01.00 - Warm conversation 

    Susi Alcott: as to me it's so, that when one 'finds one's self', that 'self' grows up,,,and there's again 'something to find'
    Lawrence Vyceratops: What what is doing the finding and what is being found? What is the difference between the finder and the found?
    Susi Alcott: you speak Law like enlightened person does _/!\_
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I'm not sure of that...
    Susi Alcott: to 'find' oneself is just to find wha't is 'there' existing....
    Susi Alcott: so...that's the point, that how knows all of one's self....
    Lawrence Vyceratops: "There" is in quotations...
    Susi Alcott: who knows
    Susi Alcott: ah yes....cuz all one can be aware of, is not one's self
    Lawrence Vyceratops: This reminds me of awareness, a popularly confusing topic.
    Susi Alcott: that can be confusing also
    Susi Alcott: depends on many things
    Susi Alcott: that can be also clarifying
    Lawrence Vyceratops: But, why is it confusing? Don't we all have a similar dictionary? haha ;)
    Susi Alcott: ah...that's the point; we dont

    2010.02.14 07:00 - Valentine Love 

    Eliza Madrigal: Eden visits us/ Wifi in India rocks/ Funny Valentine
    Eden Haiku: Pigeons trained from rooftop to rooftop this afternoon
    Eliza Madrigal: How do they know? Like they know before they know, or without knowing...turn and swoop together....
    Eden Haiku: Like swimming in the sky, hundreds of them all gold and white
    Agatha Macbeth: Probably have WiFi...
    Eliza Madrigal: like a flash
    Eliza Madrigal: heheheheh Agatha
    Agatha Macbeth: :0
    Eliza Madrigal: sounds like quite a display, Eden... beholding life and its wonders
    Eden Haiku: Yes lost art of carrier pigeon and wifi in same space
    Eliza Madrigal breathes and smiles
    Eden Haiku: Groups of kindred souls shifting shapes in 9 seconds flutterings of their wings

    Eden Haiku: And then a corpse wrapped in white silk down in the street
    Eliza Madrigal: life and death at once....
    Eden Haiku: Yes death showing up
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah, the grim reaper
    Agatha Macbeth: Scythe and all
    Eliza Madrigal: death seems natural part ... letting go
    Eden Haiku: Yes letting go
    Eden Haiku: So amazing, how do they know, the birds? We know as well if we just let go
    Eden Haiku: The master art of doing nothing
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Eden Haiku: Flowing in and out

     2010.02.14 08:00 - Guardian Session: We Can Push Them Over the Edge 

    Eliza Madrigal: that's what these meetings are for :) brainstorming, etc
    Maxine Walden: Donations/money is so hard to talk about or often to refer to....it seems so mundane and perhaps feels coercive compared to many of our other topics
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Maxine Walden: but for such a long time Pema carried the whole financial issue on his shoulders...and now we are trying to open it up, have the rest of us become more aware of the costs as well as the benefits of PaB
    Eliza Madrigal: yes... and perhaps there are creative ideas, energies that might come to the surface along the way
    Maxine Walden: yes indeed
    Zen Arado: are people taking up the subsidies to the retreats?
    Zen Arado: two people each time?
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't think there were funds available for the last retreat... Am I right, Eos? This is part of why it seems right to set a goal for donations....
    Eos Amaterasu: We have not done that yet, but have "budgeted" to be able to offer scholarships
    Bleu Oleander: how do people qualify for these scholarships?
    Eos Amaterasu: Last retreat made a bit of money, which we'll apply to that
    Eos Amaterasu: I guess contact me (as the retreat coordinator, currently), and the working group will oversee allocating funds
    Zen Arado: just wondering ...if no one takes the offers up...

    Eos Amaterasu: I think idea is if someone is on the edge financially, we can push them over the edge :-)

    The edges are where the potentials are; good to tread gently... 

     2010.02.14 13:00 - Opening to authentic feelings 

    Maxine Walden: I gather you had a very good experience at the recent retreat?
    Maxine Walden: personal experience
    Wol Euler: well ... yes I did
    Wol Euler: and a pretty hellish middle of the week after it.
    Maxine Walden: oh, so sorry...what happened that is sharable?
    Wol Euler: I've talked about this already, my friday morning session with Cal and Liza, so it's not private.
    Wol Euler: I fell into a pretty deep pit of despair and self-loathing :)
    Maxine Walden: ah...sounds very painful and debilitating perhaps
    Wol Euler: it was pretty grim, yes.
    Maxine Walden: do you think it had anything to do with aftermath from the retreat, rebound phenomenon or something of the like?
    Wol Euler: exactly that, Maxine, it was a delayed effect of the retreat
    Wol Euler: comparing the experience there to my life here.
    Wol Euler: it felt absurd and hopeless to try to achieve that clarity in my RL
    Wol Euler: and I condemned myself for being so weak and unable

    Maxine Walden: You know, I am wondering whether we all might be feeling something worth sharing or putting words to: a kind of 'wish I were happier' or loneliness when we 'should be happier...' something like that?
    Fael Illyar lets out a giganting, roating 'MEEEP!'
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Maxine Walden: There is the recent retreat, and then this 'happy' Valentines Day...and sometimes I feel
    that I should be happier in these circumstanes...sure that everyone else is having a 'good time'.
    arabella Ella feels the vibes in Fael's MEEP
    Wol Euler nods and raises her hand.

    Wol Euler: I think that is part of what happened to me after the retreat, that after living without those compromises I saw myself mired in them here.
    Maxine Walden: doubt that you were alone in that, Wol, feeling the mire after the freedom from such at the retreat
    Eliza Madrigal nods, wow... yes. It can be painful to see that parts of one's life are buried... and can feel impossible to get to
    Zen Arado: but even at a retreat don't you play a role a little?
    Fael Illyar: Ah, so the retreat opened your eyes again
    Wol Euler: sure! but a different one. A much cleaner one.
    Wol Euler: you get a taste of a simple and clean and worthy life.
    Wol Euler: and then come home and go back to work.

    Eliza Madrigal: maybe it can be a good pain... and I don't say that to be dismissive AT ALL....
    Maxine Walden: And if we could realize that 'going back to work' involves allowing those old mires...maybe that
    could be informing...and allow us to be more compassionate about our 'everyday' selves
    Eliza Madrigal: but when I'm overwhelmed I often think "yeah, but I'm feeling something, seeing something"
    Eliza Madrigal nods to Maxine
    Wol Euler: true, maxine, and true eliza.
    Fael Illyar: the mires need accepting, not hiding :)
    Maxine Walden: Stim might suggest that we accept the mires as part of ourselves as well...yes, Fael

    Wol Euler: I think that at least some of the distress I felt was due to the unexpectedness of this fall into
    the mire. I'd have been less shocked and dismayed if I had known that shock and dismay were possible results.
    Fael Illyar: they're always possible results :)
    Eliza Madrigal nods... I mentioned feeling a bit like that one day to Stim and he said "yes, I see, Good"
    or something to that effect
    Maxine Walden: very good point, Wol. A falling into the pit without recognition that it might be coming
    Wol Euler: Stim is so refreshingly bracing :)

     2010.02.14 19:00 - What is this thing called, Mind? 

    Lawrence Vyceratops: I believe we were talking about discovering what is there.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: As opposed to seeing a goal and then going to that.
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, and I thought you might believe "wisdom" was a bit too far
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Perhaps. We have not gotten into that.
    Calvino Rabeni: Sure
    Lawrence Vyceratops: So, I said that some things that are there are sight, sounds, thoughts, time, etc...
    Calvino Rabeni: Anything to add to that list ?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, there are sensations, emotions, memories...
    Lawrence Vyceratops: We can look at these things to discover what is there.
    Calvino Rabeni: In a word, appearances ?
    Calvino Rabeni: Anyway, plenty to "work" with

    Calvino Rabeni: You seem pretty principled in you approach to thinking about mind.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I have been thinking for a long time. hahaha ;)
    Calvino Rabeni: :)


    Working with the chat logs this week allowed me to uncover a bit of a mystery, as I do not get a chance to attend many of Tarmel's sessions...  


    2010.02.15 01:00 - Finding the lost bits 

    Tarmel Udimo: well the times i have truely felt connected via the PaB method
    Tarmel Udimo: I did have an experience on the beach when we were doing exercises that led me to see how the universe has no 'meaning' - it exists, this is its meaning,
    Tarmel Udimo: this was scary and difficult to handle, it was like looking into the void...
    Tarmel Udimo: but the flip side of that has been wonderous - the few times i have really opened up and celebrated the now - its been wonderous
    Tarmel Udimo: and the energy was very clean and simply was what it was
    Tarmel Udimo: which is just energy with no agenda except to continue 'living' being alive
    Tarmel Udimo: this is the most powerful of energies - the life force
    Tarmel Udimo: I have no idea what it is and i no longer try to figure it out
    Tarmel Udimo: I have spent many many years trying to 'figure' it out to no avail
    Tarmel Udimo: it is only now that I realise it is all experiential and subjective
    Tarmel Udimo: you cannot 'think' about 'god' you can only experience
    Tarmel Udimo: and 'god' is life:)
    Calvino Rabeni: Well as long as there's a way, it doesn't matter whether it's thinking or feeling or experiencing, or whatever
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe all of them
    Tarmel Udimo: sure.. however i believe that experiencing something fully is deeper than thinking and feeling
    Tarmel Udimo: rational thought cannot understand this which is why one can go crazy if you try to use your mind to sort it all out
    Calvino Rabeni: sure why bother oneself with a method of limited capacity
    Tarmel Udimo: exactly:)
    Calvino Rabeni: It is said, there are shamans who travel in the middle realm
    Tarmel Udimo: yes we all do
    Tarmel Udimo: why would they not:)

     2010.02.15 07:00 - What´s guardian´s what´s pab ? 

    Lawrence Vyceratops: When I discovered SL, I was hoping it could lead me to a place like this.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Most of the people I talk to in RL are not concerned with what the mind is.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I know the issue, and the problem to elaborate upon these topics.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, indeed. haha
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Actually this wasn´t what i was looking for in the first place :)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Do share.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I was looking for something more regular scientifc, and philosophical :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: So i found places like thothica,thephilosophyclass,kira cafe first
    Yakuzza Lethecus: this is more the contemplative field but i am still facinated by the ppl around here and even when it´s harder for me i still think i learn even much around pab
    Lawrence Vyceratops: :)

    2010.02.15 19:00 - What is Mind 


    stevenaia Michinaga: there was a very early exercise we do here simply stated as YSBS, you see, being sees, where you take the 9 seconds or 90 seconds and see Being from your viewpoint and then take the perspective of "Being" seeing
    stevenaia Michinaga: it offers an opportunity to play with your view of reality
    stevenaia Michinaga: and of what Being is
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Are you saying that YS is looking at things subjectively and BS is looking at things objectively?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I suppose that depends of who and what is doing the looking


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