2010.02.13 13:00 - Smiling at Fear

The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by Yakuzza, Eos, Wol, Bertram, Arabella, Widget and SophiaSharon.

Yakuzza Lethecus: hey ssl
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Yaku!
Yakuzza Lethecus: how are you ?
SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm very good, a nice lazy Saturday afternoon :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, i guess it´s fine after snowmageddon part 2
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh so you've heard of it?
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i knew that obama called it that way
Yakuzza Lethecus: even state employee´s had 3 days off
SophiaSharon Larnia wonders if people in snowy countries are just shaking their heads ;)
Yakuzza Lethecus: nah, i dunno we don´t have that much snow, even when it´s really annoying right now

Yakuzza Lethecus: many minor roads are just 1 way roads
SophiaSharon Larnia: I didn't even drive in it, I was stuck at work and then a hotel near work for the second
Yakuzza Lethecus: since they don´t get rid off the snow or don´t know where to pull it
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: so I have this calm feeling, I want to say my brain is taking a break, but it's more than that.
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i guess thats fine
SophiaSharon Larnia: did the 9 sec this week, alot!
Yakuzza Lethecus: i still don´t practice enough and it´s my main concern about pab
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eos!
Eos Amaterasu: Hi SophiaSharon, Yakuzza
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey eos
SophiaSharon Larnia: just seeing what's in front of me was enough, i was content
Yakuzza Lethecus: did you guys in halifax get some of the snow ?
Eos Amaterasu: no, it's all happening south of here... :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i have carolyn rose gimian´s book in front of me by the way
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Wol!
Eos Amaterasu smiles (maybe at fear :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: what is that Yakuzza ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey wol
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Wol
Yakuzza Lethecus: eos gave me a suggestion and i decided to really buy that analog book :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: chogyam trungpa´s smile at fear
Eos Amaterasu: http://www.amazon.com/Smile-Fear-Awa.../dp/1590306961
Wol Euler: hello everyone, sorry I'm late
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: a warning of a delivery delay on Amazon, how funny
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, the issue might get popular in the states :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, a coworker said she saw someone buying a whole cart full of bread
SophiaSharon Larnia: that is a bit extreme
SophiaSharon Larnia: it looks like a book I want to read though :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: what stands out in your mind now about it?
Eos Amaterasu: Language is simple, direct - very PaB-like
Eos Amaterasu: Start with where you are, which includes areas filled with fear - look / no push /drop
SophiaSharon Larnia: thats good, most of what I have now is dense and difficult

Yakuzza Lethecus: hi bert
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi smexy Bertram
Bertram Jacobus: hey all :-)
Wol Euler: hello bert, quite a change of av!
Eos Amaterasu: Howdy!
Bertram Jacobus: hehe. ty sophia ! :-))
Wol Euler: I love your cheeky grin :)
Bertram Jacobus: yes. sometimes a change is nice i feel ... ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Bertram Jacobus: cheeky ? okey ... ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: should have been ( be "slightly" ... ;-)
Eos Amaterasu: /wonders if Wol is being tiger-y
Yakuzza Lethecus: ara :)
Bertram Jacobus: so i may have failed once more again in modifying - no wonder - i´m no good with such ... ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Ara
arabella Ella: Hiya!
Bertram Jacobus: hey ara ! :-)
Eos Amaterasu: Arabella!
Wol Euler: on the contrary, bert, your mods are great. Full of character.
Wol Euler: hello ara
Bertram Jacobus: hm. ty :-) (again) ... *blush a bit and smile shy* ... :o)
Wol Euler smiles.
arabella Ella: a new look eh Bertram! cool!
SophiaSharon Larnia: a topic hasn't really been brought up yet, we were starting to discuss chogyam trungpa´s smile at fear [13:07] Eos Amaterasu: http://www.amazon.com/Smile-Fear-Awa.../dp/1590306961
Eos Amaterasu: Today is "neutral day" - after the previous year's bad stuff has all been piled up, and with the New Year tiger about to leap out tomorrow
Bertram Jacobus: ty wol (for the picrure) ... ty ara ...
SophiaSharon Larnia: ooooh is that it????
SophiaSharon Larnia: i feel something ...
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
arabella Ella: we just celebrated my mum's birthday here today :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yay :)
Wol Euler waves. Happy birthday Ara's mum!
arabella Ella smiles ... thanks!
Bertram Jacobus: oh - happy birthday aras mum ! :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: right, happy Bday !
SophiaSharon Larnia: by here you mean Malta, not sl, right? haha
arabella Ella: yes in Malta in RL of course :)
Eos Amaterasu: she already lives in the party-town part of St Julian
SophiaSharon Larnia wishes she was in Malta
SophiaSharon Larnia: nice :)
Eos Amaterasu: Jan 2012
arabella Ella: yes she lives very close to the St Julians hotels you were at ... I showed Eos her home
Wol Euler: ah, right, Mick pointed out the house to us
arabella Ella: ah
arabella Ella: who has read the book SophiaSharon referred to?
arabella Ella: it seems to be very interesting
Eos Amaterasu: I am part way through it
Bertram Jacobus: which one is it please, missed it ... :-/
SophiaSharon Larnia: fear seem to dictate quite a few decisions
arabella Ella: Smile at Fear
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Wol Euler: heh
Bertram Jacobus: ah okay
arabella Ella: Chogyam Trungpa
Eos Amaterasu: roar :-)
Wol Euler makes a note.
Bertram Jacobus: know most of it
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
Yakuzza Lethecus: i owe it but i haven´t read it until now
arabella Ella: would be interesting to hear your perspectives on it please?
Eos Amaterasu: very straightforward language
Eos Amaterasu: start where you are is really start at the end
Eos Amaterasu: cause there's nowhere else to go
Bertram Jacobus: transformations ...
Eos Amaterasu: where we are is often tinged with fear(s)
Bertram Jacobus: dissolving illusions ...
Eos Amaterasu: not escaping hard realities
arabella Ella: facing fear?
arabella Ella: how?
Bertram Jacobus: like every facing
Eos Amaterasu: first opening the eyes a crack
Eos Amaterasu: and acknowledging the fear that's there
Eos Amaterasu: quick little peek
Eos Amaterasu: look again
Eos Amaterasu: maybe it's there
Eos Amaterasu: maybe not
Eos Amaterasu: make a little bit friends with it, humor it
Eos Amaterasu: back & forth
SophiaSharon Larnia: humor it?
Eos Amaterasu: yeah, if you push it away it takes on more ugly faces

arabella Ella: does this apply to both psychological and physical fear?
Wol Euler: hello widget.
SophiaSharon Larnia: interesting distinction
Widget Whiteberry: hullo all
SophiaSharon Larnia: ill give you a note card Widget if thats ok
Bertram Jacobus: hey widget
Widget Whiteberry: ty Sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh and Hi :))
Widget Whiteberry: ˜smiles˜
Eos Amaterasu: fear adds extra quivering noise....
Eos Amaterasu: in both psych and phys fear
arabella Ella: but is fear not one of our primordeal instincts ... fight or flight?
arabella Ella: a survival mechanism?
Eos Amaterasu: true
Eos Amaterasu: you don't get rid of fear :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: like coded on the nervous system
Eos Amaterasu: maybe you hone it
Widget Whiteberry: just get used to it?
Eos Amaterasu: so it's just there, without the extra quivermatics
SophiaSharon Larnia: from past experiences
Widget Whiteberry: my body can only maintain fear for so long
Eos Amaterasu: fear can be very accurate
Eos Amaterasu: so you have to move with it, not freeze
Eos Amaterasu: I get fear moments walking on icy patches in the Dingle woods
Eos Amaterasu: can be very, very slick - no traction at all!
SophiaSharon Larnia: good to fear, in that case
Wol Euler frowns. Surely we are talking about two very distinct things, then?
Eos Amaterasu: the psych fear is more usually fear of looking
Wol Euler: fear which is real and immediate and having physical cause, like slipping on ice
Wol Euler: smiling at that is surely less effective than trying for a secure foothold?
Widget Whiteberry: maybe it's the fear of the immediate and physical vs the fear of the distant and abstract
SophiaSharon Larnia: so psychological fears, not fear related to real physical body dangers
Widget Whiteberry: either way, my body produces adrenaline
Eos Amaterasu: both
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
arabella Ella: does facing fear help one to better control or reduce the flow of adrenaline?
SophiaSharon Larnia: if your slipping on ice, fear could make you panic and take a misstep
Eos Amaterasu: Or you could freeze
Eos Amaterasu: so you have to unfreeze, and go
Eos Amaterasu: I think the psych fear is more often not anything even experienced, but anxiety on some level, often physical
Eos Amaterasu: fear of experiencing something
Wol Euler nods.
arabella Ella: it could be anticipatory fear of a situation or a person or an issue
Bertram Jacobus: sry - that´s not my topic ... so i´d like to leave - if it´s ok (?) ...
SophiaSharon Larnia: for people with anxiety disorders, sometimes they order a medication that slows the heart rate instead of an antianxiety med.... it 'tricks' the body to not feel palpitations when the person is afraid, and makes the person feel calmer
arabella Ella: bye Bertram ... gute nacht
Yakuzza Lethecus: nacht bertram
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye smexy bert
Bertram Jacobus: ty vm :-)
Wol Euler: bye bert, schlaf gut
Eos Amaterasu: ttyl
Bertram Jacobus: you´re kind ... :-)
Widget Whiteberry: arabella, for me facing my fears reduces the lenght of time during which my body is flooded with adrenaline
Eos Amaterasu: it's like in dreams, when you look at and speak to the fearful thingie or person, it usually gets a lot more normal
Widget Whiteberry: breathing regularly helps too
arabella Ella nods
Eos Amaterasu: being ordinary, accepting it in ordinariness
arabella Ella: do you think this could apply to phobias too Eos?

arabella Ella: fear of flying, fear of spiders or whatever?
Eos Amaterasu: Can you say more about phobias, experientially?
arabella Ella: ok
arabella Ella: i have a fear of heights like if I have to use a chair life to get up a mountain
arabella Ella: i then feel the space beneath me pulling me down like gravity and it makes me feel very anxious
Widget Whiteberry: I had a huge fear of needles
Eos Amaterasu: (gulp!)
SophiaSharon Larnia: had? what helped you?
arabella Ella: i would never try rock climbing or bungee jumping for example
Widget Whiteberry: ara, does it feel like the ground wants you to fall?
arabella Ella: yes
Yakuzza Lethecus: needles and dentist drill, still for me :)
Widget Whiteberry: I had to have a lot of dental work
Widget Whiteberry: so I tried different things
Widget Whiteberry: I tried valium - but then I couldn't drive afterwards
Widget Whiteberry: I found it helped to have the x-ray blanket over me
Widget Whiteberry: the weight of it
Widget Whiteberry: and having the dentist's assistent touching my skin
Widget Whiteberry: or me touching hers
Widget Whiteberry: like her wrist
Widget Whiteberry: or my shoulder
Widget Whiteberry: also breathing
Widget Whiteberry: during one procedure
Widget Whiteberry: I learned that my adreniline could override
Widget Whiteberry: the scopolomine
Widget Whiteberry: a drug that generally causes forgetfulness
Widget Whiteberry: facing it over and over and trying to do things to normalize my experience helped
Widget Whiteberry: I can give blood now
Widget Whiteberry smiles
arabella Ella: de-sensitisation is one way Widget ... but it does not always work
Widget Whiteberry nods
SophiaSharon Larnia: the contact, the comfort of it
Widget Whiteberry: I don't know what I would do for fear of hts
Widget Whiteberry: each thing is a challenge
Widget Whiteberry: have you learned to fall?
arabella Ella: no
arabella Ella: too scared
Widget Whiteberry: like in Aikido
arabella Ella: yes
Widget Whiteberry: fall from a standing position
arabella Ella: or other martial arts
Widget Whiteberry nods
arabella Ella: now i just avoid mountains and roller coasters ... life goes on without them
arabella Ella: but i dont mind planes at all
Widget Whiteberry: I find roller coasters easy to avoid
Widget Whiteberry grins
arabella Ella smiles
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Eos Amaterasu: they are usuallly on fixed tracks
Wol Euler: :)
arabella Ella: scarey
Widget Whiteberry is not a big fan of fast moving small chairs
Eos Amaterasu: part of the thing is to become aware of all the little fears that constrain normal being
Eos Amaterasu: let 'em be, and then they just go off stage on their own, even if momentarily
arabella Ella: could you give some examples of 'small fears' Eos and how they can be faced please?
Eos Amaterasu: "is it okay if I say this?"
arabella Ella: you mean that could be an expression of insecurity ... or of politeness ... or respect?
Eos Amaterasu: little fear too
Eos Amaterasu: checking about yourself
arabella Ella: ah
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Eos Amaterasu: so humor yourself
Eos Amaterasu: _and_ the fear
Widget Whiteberry: I could use another example

arabella Ella: yes please
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go :) bye all!
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye ssl
Wol Euler: bye sharon, take care
Wol Euler: happy v-day:)
SophiaSharon Larnia: see you later
SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks you too!!
arabella Ella: bye SophiaSharon
Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, bye eos bye everyone
Wol Euler: bye eos, bye everyone else.
Eos Amaterasu: Also have to go hunter-gather, Sy SS, bye ara, yak, wol, widget
arabella Ella: bye Eos
Wol Euler: I should be going too. Goodnight all, be happy.
arabella Ella: nite Wol
arabella Ella: take care
arabella Ella: were you going to give another example Widget of a 'small fear'?
Widget Whiteberry: hmm
Widget Whiteberry: no, I was asking for one
Widget Whiteberry: but I imagine between the two of us
arabella Ella: ah
Widget Whiteberry: we could come up with a few
arabella Ella: between the two of us I guess we could come up with some 'big' ones!
Widget Whiteberry: lol
Widget Whiteberry: I like the idea of laughing at fear
arabella Ella: would be nice
Widget Whiteberry: I 've noticed that
Widget Whiteberry: exercise helps
arabella Ella: yes ... positive endorphins
Widget Whiteberry: it helps the body regulate flow of hormones
arabella Ella: yes
Widget Whiteberry: if you were going to experiment with
Widget Whiteberry: ht
Widget Whiteberry: what's the safest thing you could do?
arabella Ella: and what i find with small fears is that facing them in the sense of not avoiding them helps to de sensitise too
arabella Ella: with height ... i dont think i would like to experiment
Widget Whiteberry: what I'm wondering is
Widget Whiteberry: how high is high
Widget Whiteberry: a stairway?
Widget Whiteberry: escalator?
arabella Ella: a stairway does form part of the funny / weird experiences i have had with height
Widget Whiteberry: elevator?
arabella Ella: it often relates to a sense of 'openness'
arabella Ella: closed stuff like planes or lifts are find
arabella Ella: fine
Widget Whiteberry: so an enclosed stairway is much better than an open one
arabella Ella: yes
Widget Whiteberry: do you stay near the wall side on stairs?
arabella Ella: have you ever been up the statue of liberty or st paul's cathedral in london?
arabella Ella: the open spiral staircases there?
arabella Ella: horrible
Widget Whiteberry: statue of liberty
Widget Whiteberry: hmm
arabella Ella: there is a horrible spiral staircase
Widget Whiteberry: those are intense
Widget Whiteberry: I wonder if you could
arabella Ella: or the Balarney stone in Ireland ... you bend back with a huge open space beneath you
arabella Ella: feeling the pull of gravity
Widget Whiteberry: what about enclosed buildings - stairways open on one side and not the other
Widget Whiteberry: you you use the railing instead of staying near a wall?
arabella Ella: as long as the handrail feels safe then it is ok
Widget Whiteberry: hmm
arabella Ella: depends on how 'fragile' the handrail is
Widget Whiteberry: a secure handrail
arabella Ella: yes
Widget Whiteberry: provides a point of reference
Widget Whiteberry: kinesthetic
arabella Ella: yes ... solidity and security
arabella Ella: yes
Widget Whiteberry: are you astigmatic?
arabella Ella: no
arabella Ella: not as far as i know
Widget Whiteberry nods
arabella Ella: would that affect it?
Widget Whiteberry: I am and some of this relates to that for me
Widget Whiteberry: oh yes
arabella Ella: how?
Widget Whiteberry: compromised depth perception
arabella Ella: oh
Widget Whiteberry: for me, it's an added challenge when walking down a path
arabella Ella: could you say more please?
Widget Whiteberry: yes
Widget Whiteberry: I used to think I was just scared
Widget Whiteberry: then I learned about depth perception
Widget Whiteberry: so now
Widget Whiteberry: when I'm hiking with friends
Widget Whiteberry: on the way down, I keep my hand lightly on someones elbow or shoulder
arabella Ella: yes that helps me too
Widget Whiteberry: it gives me a 3rd pt of reference
arabella Ella: like when walking close to the edge of a cliff for example
Widget Whiteberry: so my body knows where I am relative to the ground
arabella Ella: ah ... and i always thought it was a sort of anchor or saftey line?
Widget Whiteberry: I imagine your body
Widget Whiteberry: does not trust where you are
arabella Ella: yes
Widget Whiteberry: the visual cues are wrong
arabella Ella: it is a very intuitive feeling somehow ... as you seem to know
Widget Whiteberry: they scream danger
arabella Ella: exactly
Widget Whiteberry: for me
Widget Whiteberry: I look for tactile cues
Widget Whiteberry: to focus on
Widget Whiteberry: like following a good dancer
arabella Ella: yes
Widget Whiteberry: you don't worry about crashing into someone or something
arabella Ella: yes this brings another experienceto mind
Widget Whiteberry: /menods

arabella Ella: ski lifts which take two people ... when i used them with an experienced person / skier ... it made all the different to hold hands on landing or to feel the security of the other person's body too
Widget Whiteberry: yes!
Widget Whiteberry: that's very hopeful
arabella Ella: but the single chair lifts ... which hang on merely a thread ... no way :)
Widget Whiteberry: if you think of your fear as a signal that you need a tactile/kinetic reinforcement
arabella Ella: interesting ... yes
Widget Whiteberry: are you possibly coming to SF in April?
arabella Ella: unfortunately not ... hopefully to Germany in October
Widget Whiteberry nods
Widget Whiteberry: you might look for people who could play with you
arabella Ella: would be great
Widget Whiteberry: experiment with positions and kinds of touch that are reassuring
arabella Ella: yes
Widget Whiteberry: certainly makes a difference for me
arabella Ella: its strange though ... the way you describe it and from my experience ...
Widget Whiteberry: yes?
arabella Ella: the tactile experience seems to need to come from another human and not from an object
arabella Ella: would that be the case you think?
Widget Whiteberry: moment
Widget Whiteberry: phone
arabella Ella: ok
Widget Whiteberry: back
arabella Ella: ok
Widget Whiteberry: I was just thinking about the other human
Widget Whiteberry: but I know a walking stick helps me on hills
arabella Ella: it did cross my mind
Widget Whiteberry: however, other humans are handier
Widget Whiteberry: and I don't need to carry them around
Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
arabella Ella: although humans tend to pass on positive or negative vibz to others
arabella Ella: confidence can be contageous
Widget Whiteberry: yes, and I've found all sorts of people are happy to help a stranger, or a friend
Widget Whiteberry: it's a small ask
arabella Ella: oh yes
arabella Ella: and about being astigmatic?
Widget Whiteberry: and I've helped people on planes
Widget Whiteberry: well
arabella Ella: yes i have helped people on planes too
Widget Whiteberry: now adays, children get early surgery to correct the 'lazy eye'
Widget Whiteberry: and that's a big part of it
arabella Ella: yes
Widget Whiteberry: fix it before the child is 2 and they're fine
Widget Whiteberry: I had exercises but no surgery
arabella Ella: i did once have contacts fitted for astigmatism but i was later told i did not need that any more ... still use contacts though
Widget Whiteberry nods
Widget Whiteberry: you and I both wear glasses in SL
arabella Ella nods
Widget Whiteberry: I'm much more comfortable with them
arabella Ella: yes ... although i like my contacts too
Widget Whiteberry: I hope you'll play with these ideas a bit
Widget Whiteberry: nothing drastic
Widget Whiteberry: just little things
arabella Ella: contacts are useful for going swimming, when it is raining, when dealing with steam, etc.
arabella Ella: also peeling onions :)
Widget Whiteberry: really!
arabella Ella: i certainly will thank you so much!
Widget Whiteberry: yvw
Widget Whiteberry: I'm going to go, but I'm glad you stayed to talk
arabella Ella: very helpful very useful and makes a lot of sense thanks!
arabella Ella: i must go too it is very late here nearly midnight
Widget Whiteberry smiles
Widget Whiteberry: sleep well
arabella Ella: thanks bye for now take care and thanks again!
Widget Whiteberry: bye!