2010.02.15 01:00 - Finding the lost bits

The Guardian for this meeting was Tarmel Udimo. The comments are by Tarmel Udimo. I arrived late to find Calvino there. After an intial checking in, we went on to discuss a topic we had started in the last session: about energies and PaB.

Tarmel Udimo: Hey calvino, sorry i'm late
Calvino Rabeni: Having fun?
Tarmel Udimo: yeah i was looking at a friend's build - he has just made the Eiffel Tower
Tarmel Udimo: gorgeous
Tarmel Udimo: and you?
Calvino Rabeni: just before this, fussing with yahoo accounts, not a barrel of laughs
Tarmel Udimo: no no fun
Calvino Rabeni: But earlier, I found a great spot in SL, one of my favorites in some ways
Tarmel Udimo: I was working on budgets - excel spread sheets
Calvino Rabeni: Ack!
Tarmel Udimo: oh yeah - where?
Calvino Rabeni: Not sure how to put these in the chat, so I sent a LM
Calvino Rabeni: Have you seen it?
Tarmel Udimo: yes just got it now
Tarmel Udimo: so its a doll shop?
Calvino Rabeni: Has to be seen to be appreciated, it is fun, surreal
Tarmel Udimo: ok will check it out
Calvino Rabeni: Oh BTW I also like the third life island
Calvino Rabeni: If you go to the dollhouse, camera skills make all the difference
Calvino Rabeni: it is very dense with lots to look at
Calvino Rabeni: great details
Calvino Rabeni: almost in a way a masterpiece
Tarmel Udimo: one of my favourites is the creamshop
Tarmel Udimo: as well as the wastelands
Tarmel Udimo: oh and the faraway
Tarmel Udimo: yeah there are some very talented people in SL
Tarmel Udimo: (no hair today calvino:)
Calvino Rabeni: Bruce Willis look, said someone
Tarmel Udimo: yeah that's right:)
Tarmel Udimo: yeah tough....

--BELL--

Tarmel Udimo: Calvino Rabeni: Well the question in my mind is the kind of "energies" that PaB seems to support here Calvino Rabeni: And I don't want to "define" it as being good or not good
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Tarmel Udimo: did you want to talk about this
Calvino Rabeni: Did you post the log?
Tarmel Udimo: not yet - I will later or tomorrow
Tarmel Udimo: not very good of me
Calvino Rabeni: And now this :)
Calvino Rabeni: Tarmel Udimo: there have been some AV's that have used PaB as a platofrm to push their own agandas, Tarmel Udimo: seen it as a forum to convert others to a way of thinking Tarmel Udimo: where as opening up to a deeper reality ie connecting to a part of ourselves Tarmel Udimo: that is less personal and more 'being'
Calvino Rabeni: So, from that other session, those were the points of interest
Tarmel Udimo: oh ok
Tarmel Udimo: yes well i still believe that is the basis of PaB
Tarmel Udimo: opening up to a deeper reality
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, these 2 things are related
Tarmel Udimo: ok
Tarmel Udimo: so what do you think?
Calvino Rabeni: I think people are usually in the "middle world" according to the traditional shamanic division into three worlds
Calvino Rabeni: And outside that world are the sky world and the underworld
Calvino Rabeni: it is all metaphoric
Calvino Rabeni: but oftimes when people talk about "deeper" or somehow outside the band we are in, they may be talking about either of those other two, without specifying which
Calvino Rabeni: And one other metaphor is that the upper one is about spirit and the lower one about soul
Calvino Rabeni: So does that evoke anything in terms of our earlier talk?
Calvino Rabeni: (tarmel ponders at length)
Tarmel Udimo: (sorry actually left the computer for a few mins to get a glass of water should have said)
Tarmel Udimo: but the difference between soul and spirit is one thing
Tarmel Udimo: and then whether these are associated with the lower or upper worlds i am not sure
Tarmel Udimo: I think for me deeper means more connected to 'what is'
Tarmel Udimo: which is not unconscious
Tarmel Udimo: but is seeing reality for what it is
Calvino Rabeni: When you say :
Calvino Rabeni: where as opening up to a deeper reality ie connecting to a part of ourselves Tarmel Udimo: that is less personal and more 'being'
Calvino Rabeni: I think this is about the spirit - level
Tarmel Udimo: yes by that i mean less personal - ie my persona
Tarmel Udimo: yes ok well that could be a good way to define this connection
Calvino Rabeni: Now the soul level - many people say it is "deep" and not impersonal
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: but you think otherwise
Calvino Rabeni: And in the "underworld" there may be dark energies, but they are not impersonal either
Calvino Rabeni: So this could be about the intelligent, personal "other" beings

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: So we were going to consider what "energies" are accessible through the PaB setting
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Calvino Rabeni: In shamanic worldviews there is no shortage of dark entities with lots of personality
Calvino Rabeni: and in traditional buddhism, same thing
Calvino Rabeni: entities, spirits, ghosts, demons are not excluded
Tarmel Udimo: sure i try not get too close to any of those?
Tarmel Udimo: :)
Tarmel Udimo: well the times i have truely felt connected via the PaB method
Tarmel Udimo: I did have an experience on the beach when we were doing exercises that led me to see how the universe has no 'meaning' - it exists, this is its meaning,
Tarmel Udimo: this was scary and difficult to handle, it was like looking into the void...
Tarmel Udimo: but the flip side of that has been wonderous - the few times i have really opened up and celebrated the now - its been wonderous
Tarmel Udimo: and the energy was very clean and simply was what it was
Tarmel Udimo: which is just energy with no agenda except to continue 'living' being alive
Tarmel Udimo: this is the most powerful of energies - the life force
Tarmel Udimo: I have no idea what it is and i no longer try to figure it out
Tarmel Udimo: I have spent many many years trying to 'figure' it out to no avail
Tarmel Udimo: it is only now that I realise it is all experiential and subjective
Tarmel Udimo: you cannot 'think' about 'god' you can only experience
Tarmel Udimo: and 'god' is life:)
Calvino Rabeni: Well as long as there's a way, it doesn't matter whether it's thinking or feeling or experiencing, or whatever
Calvino Rabeni: Maybe all of them
Tarmel Udimo: sure.. however i believe that experiencing something fully is deeper than thinking and feeling
Tarmel Udimo: rational thought cannot understand this which is why one can go crazy if you try to use your mind to sort it all out
Calvino Rabeni: sure why bother oneself with a method of limited capacity
Tarmel Udimo: exactly:)
Calvino Rabeni: It is said, there are shamans who travel in the middle realm
Tarmel Udimo: yes we all do
Tarmel Udimo: why would they not:)
Calvino Rabeni: I have a stereotype, which is that on the average, western spiritual seekers have a preference for the spirit realm and an aversion to the underworld realm
Tarmel Udimo: ok
Calvino Rabeni: And actually, I see it as a bit ethnocentric
Tarmel Udimo: ok
Calvino Rabeni: That it is the western version of what it is to encounter "reality"
Tarmel Udimo: hummm perhaps

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: with a distinctly transcendental direction
Tarmel Udimo: yes well christianity has tainted us all:)
Tarmel Udimo: that's what i like about certain aspects of buddhism
Tarmel Udimo: chop wood, carry water - the meaning of life:)
Tarmel Udimo: but now back to the underworld
Calvino Rabeni: I don't think its good or bad, but all the beings deserve respect and to be given "being"
Tarmel Udimo: sure
Tarmel Udimo: but there is only one 'being'
Calvino Rabeni: But it is hard to talk about the so called "dark energies" unless people are oriented to doing so
Tarmel Udimo: yes true
Tarmel Udimo: but what are dark energies?
Calvino Rabeni: one sign is they contradict preferences and engender confusion
Tarmel Udimo: ok
Calvino Rabeni: but there may be others that are soothing and fertile
Calvino Rabeni: but mysterious
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Calvino Rabeni: mystery and darkness are not negative, regardless of whether people are afraid of the dark
Tarmel Udimo: we deal with this use of energy all the time - life unfolding is the biggest mystery of all
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Tarmel Udimo: but tell me what is it that you are seeking from these energies?
Calvino Rabeni: Nothing in particular. If they are part of reality, my desire is not to close off awareness of it
Calvino Rabeni: And actually, they can bring new rewarding energies, but that is not my motivation
Tarmel Udimo: have you encountered 'dark' energies
Calvino Rabeni: Doesn't everyone have a shadow, and look away?
Calvino Rabeni: See, "dark" and "shadow" are somewhat pejorative in common use
Tarmel Udimo: yes we do, in fact i saw mine very clearly the other day:)
Calvino Rabeni: But from "Being's" perspective they aren't
Tarmel Udimo: I was really upset about something and ended up sending a very specific and emotionally targeted email to someone.
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Tarmel Udimo: After I had sent it the clouds cleared and i realised it was my shadow who did the writing
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it can happen
Tarmel Udimo: it was like i was driven to do it and spent many hours refining the message
Tarmel Udimo: it was a very good lesson
Calvino Rabeni: And, were you able to get a gift of some kind from this dark thing?
Tarmel Udimo: well yes, realising that a) it was my 'shadow' that was very clear about its own feelings and was not going to let me go into my usual trying to always 'be supportive self'
Tarmel Udimo: and in the end it proved useful - b) it served its purpose and changed things and for the better
Calvino Rabeni: I know a psychotherapist who helps clients see those shadow parts of themselves - like gargoyles that sit on a church to guard it -
Calvino Rabeni: they look ugly :)

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: and he has them invite the gargoyles in for Tea - quite literally with real teacups
Calvino Rabeni: and they start to learn from it
Tarmel Udimo: nice approach
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Tarmel Udimo: its a healing process
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Tarmel Udimo: to bring all ourselves together
Tarmel Udimo: this is the purpose of the shaman's journey
Tarmel Udimo: find our lost bits, left on their own, swimming around out there and bring them back:)

Calvino crashed at that point and when he retruned we decided to call it a night and chat again the following week.