28-31 You Are Me

These were often long sessions within long sessions, and as Corvi might say, bits within bits. They often had
an unfolding quality, as friends brought fiery hearts to bear upon each topic which appeared.

You Are Me

You are me and I am you.
It is obvious that we are inter-are.
You cultivate the flower in
yourself so that I will be beautiful.
I transform the garbage in myself so
that you do not have to suffer.
I support you you support me.
I am here to bring you peace
you are here to bring me joy.

Thich Nhat Hanh

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/05/2009.05.28_01%3a00_-_Logic_and_Judgement

Corvuscorva Nightfire: unpack..is so cool an idea...to take an idea apart into it's bits.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and then..ya get to take the bits apart...
Bertrum Quan: The image of unpacking is a good one -- to unpack one's mind... to see clearly
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes it an 'avalanche' for me lol

Corvuscorva Nightfire: In christianity..the phrase is..judge the sin, not the sinner...nods to Bertrum....
which I suggest means..think about actions...consider them....and be compassionate.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: to the people.
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Corvuscorva Nightfire: someone once told me that some people are easier to love than others.
SophiaSharon Larnia: gentler maybe
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and that those people..the ones easy to love...teach us what love is...so that we can expand the idea.
Bertrum Quan: And understand suffering.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: compassion is...observing with a clear sight.

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/05/2009.05.28_07%3a00_-_Gaps_and_Meaning_in_a_'Perfect'_Virtual_World

Arms open, fire alit...

Storm Nordwind: It's spreads its arms out to the LL Welcome Area to the south to invite wanderers over from there
Eliza Madrigal: Ah.. that's why so many newbies!
Storm Nordwind: Yes indeed
Storm Nordwind: And a beacon fire to attract them
Storm Nordwind: Subtle but effective
Eliza Madrigal: :) Nice
Storm Nordwind: But it will not attract everyone
Storm Nordwind: And that again is intentional
Storm Nordwind: People more interested in malls and gun battles will doubtless not arrive!

Eliza Madrigal: I like that it is open, like our conversations!

Travieso Sella: I think a sense of social conscience and proactivity is neccessary especially
 when to be complacent or passive means being part of the problem
Travieso Sella: but on a spiritual level I think people have another take on things
Travieso Sella: THis is something I wish to work on much more. And sometimes I think it is at the root of my spiritual endeavors.
Travieso Sella: and then there is the creative aspect of it as well
Eliza Madrigal: in what way?
Travieso Sella: I try to explore my 'more negative feelings' in hopes of finding useful artistic expressive quailities in work that I do
Travieso Sella: and with the intention of transformation

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/05/2009.05.28_13%3a00_-_Reflections_without_a_pool

Not scared...

Storm Nordwind: A year ago, I could not have envisaged where we are now. Now I just expect anything
at all to happen in the next year!
Wol Euler smiles
Adams Rubble: a year ago i was scared silly :)
Wol Euler: I year ago I was getting bored of SL and considered dropping out.
Adams Rubble still is silly but not scared :)
Wol Euler: :)
Adams Rubble: Hmm. That happened to me a bit earlier Wol. I dropped out for 3 months
Storm Nordwind: A year ago I was swept up in the enthusiasm for this new project called Play as Being
Wol Euler: yeah, that is a large part of what kept me here.
Storm Nordwind: Well my life is richer for your all having stayed here! :)
Adams Rubble: It was very compelling
Adams Rubble: yes Storm we all are richer :)
Wol Euler: likewise!
Mickorod Renard: I enjoy the feeling that we seem to have formed a family,in our common interests and support
Qt Core: i'm having some little doubts about my permanence in SL and PaB is one of the few things keeping me

Curiosity...

Qt Core: being an amateur astronomer i've read several books about QM, but only some month ago i had a "revelation" about it
Qt Core: i started circling and wondering if there is a connection between QM and free will
Qt Core: if the universe is newtonian, all stated and you can do some math and calculate the state
of it at any point in time there is no free will
Qt Core: so all the problems with religion and sin and grace
Storm Nordwind: I've heard that argument before but have never been convinced

Wester Kiranov: there are so many things here philosophically problematical - probabilities, free will, determinism, observation - each of those can be interpterted in many ways
Qt Core: i still like the idea of someone coming out from a place well hidden and bringing us the simple and definitive equation that would explain everything ;-)
Storm Nordwind: Like God's final message to his creation in H2G2? :)

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/05/2009.05.28_19%3a00_-_no_chat_log

Extending our happiness to others...

Fael Illyar: Funny how I woke up at 5AM last night to a shock at figuring out an answer to a problem
and then even figuring out how to relate it to others but ... now I find I can't remember what it was :)
Wol Euler laughs sympathetically.
Fael Illyar: the problem is gone though :P
Wol Euler: well, that is good.
Fael Illyar: ... although I find I forgot what it was.
Wol Euler: so you solved it without knowing what it was?
Fael Illyar: hmmh, might be :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :) I woke up this morning feeling very happy, flushed with warmth
upon awakening, and once awake it abated a bit....wanted to hold on to it.
Wol Euler: awww :) do you remember what you were dreaming?
SophiaSharon Larnia: not one single bit :)) I dont know, I just felt it's loss once real life asserted itself
Fael Illyar: I managed to keep it while still in bed, even though it almost faltered as I noticed it :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: i wonder how to hold onto it
Fael Illyar: you hold to it by not holding :); just thinking it needs to be held pushes it away

Bertrum Quan: Is it always a good thing to be focused on happiness?
SophiaSharon Larnia: if being happy is love, and being unhappy is seeing how reality differs from what we
want it to be, than is to stustain that, do we love that reality, appreciate it.. so difficult
Fael Illyar: unhappiness is not seeing how the reality differs from what we want it to be. It's getting stuck there.
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah, yes
Tarmel Udimo: I think its ok to have different emotions, not just happiness but as you say fael not get stuck there
or cling them. I have never met a person who is happy 100% of the time:)
Tarmel Udimo: I would like to :)
Fael Illyar: that's almost an impossibility :)
Wol Euler: yeah, they'd be either mad or on some pretty heavy drugs :)
Fael Illyar: Bert, caring is different from being unhappy.

Bertrum Quan: I feel it is important to care about what's happening in the world.l If we are indeed connected to our fellow beings, then their suffering is our suffering. There still can be engagement with the world...
Wol Euler: there is engagement, but it does not preclude joy or happiness or love
Tarmel Udimo: and for those people who are engaged with this that life we feel compassion
Bertrum Quan: There must be. Otherwise, this idea of love, compassion--is mere talk.

Fael Illyar: joy is an emotion. Happiness is just love.
Bertrum Quan: Fael, I don't share your definition of happiness, In my view it is a psychological state.
Wol Euler: I think that happiness is a byproduct, it comes from being immersed in doing good things well
sophia Placebo: happiness to me is part from being gratfull and thankfull like i fell happy that my brother
wasnt hurt in car accidant

Tarmel Udimo: I envy those that can be made happy by a closet full of shoes:)

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/05/2009.05.29_07%3a00_-_Idealism%3f

Desire for love to burn away suffering...

quen Oh: but if you really think about next generations or the millions of people in developing world which are now
in hunger or even die in a world of superfluence.. it is hard to not want some changes
Gaya Ethaniel: I think a lot of issues recent ones especially grow out of greedy mentality.
quen Oh: in my opininion the idea of competition and when you cannot cope (the market force being the 'neutral'
referee in that) you suffer the consequence is dangerously close to the holocaust and nazi-ideas...
Gaya Ethaniel: What do you mean? The danger of idealism?
quen Oh: darwinistic principles don't make a civilised world... greediness and kapitalism based on competition only
is to ignore the very human capacity for adaptation as a GROUP and intelligent cooperation..
quen Oh: 'idealism' in the worst sense, the cold calculating idea of the superhuman, who is solely interested
in individual freedom and development...
Gaya Ethaniel nods. It's an easy convenient trap to fall into ...
quen Oh: creating a system which will justify individual greediness and succeeding while harming or disadvantaging others is barbaric
quen Oh: yes, there is nothing wrong with trying to make the best of things, of your talents and so on, the problem is only that everyone should be allowed to do that, whatever their origin (race, place of birth, sex, etc.)
quen Oh: it seems that we live in a world where it almost is acceptable (as it is considered 'understandable') to profit from other human beings against their will (as I don't belief there is a human being that would choose to do without enough food, decent basic housing, good education and healthcare)
Gaya Ethaniel: mm... we do? live in such a world?
quen Oh: well, don't we? if we look at the developing world?
quen Oh: we have enough food on the planet to feed everyone, we even have a surplus of 10% food
quen Oh: yet millions die of hunger, because we distribute it badly and we even dare to speculate in grain for instance

Gaya Ethaniel: I cannot imagine a society completely free of corruption etc.
quen Oh: which it can be, but that requires continuous repression of all oppositional forces
Gaya Ethaniel: You believe such a society is possible quen?
quen Oh: yes I do, it will take some time, but I do belief more people are starting to see what the world is like today, and that it is in danger because of the lack of cooperation in environmental issues, world poverty, international politics and so on

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/05/2009.05.29_13%3a00_-_Attachments_and_children

Breath as kindling...

Solobill Laville: Here we are in beautiful bieup!
Wol Euler: ah well, 'tis an imperfect world of joy and sorrow commingled, as the poet said.
Solobill Laville: Yes, it rings sweetly and still stings...daggone poets.. ;)

Solobill Laville: My son, speak of the lil' devil, said something this morning
Solobill Laville: "ya know, Dad, I think that in the Earth...
Solobill Laville: ...is love, and gravity, and air."
Solobill Laville: I said, 'I agree!"

Mickorod Renard: I tell u watz wierd about SL and here
Wol Euler: mmm?
Scathach Rhiadra listens?
Mickorod Renard: when I have discussions in RL,nobody is on the same wavelength
Mickorod Renard: yet here everyone is so either accomodaying, or similar in ideas or thoughts
Solobill Laville: "Breathers" vs. "non-breathers"
Mickorod Renard: I think that is the key
Wol Euler smiles. This is the epitome of a self-selecting group though. Try going to Madame Fred's Bondage
Parlour And Animal Fetish Saloon and asking about phenomenology :)
Wol Euler: just an example. I made it up, but something disturbingly much like that probably does exist

Scathach Rhiadra: hmmm, have you never been involved in conversations where different threads get mixed?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i know i saw discussions about everything already,
but when i sit here on the pillow i always think that it's supposed to be more an introspective topic

Yakuzza Lethecus: Sometimes it gets so silent
Solobill Laville: Sometimes that silence is powerful too
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: we are officially a meditation group, after all :)

Yakuzza Lethecus: in real life i alwas had the feeling that those things are just money making mambo jumbo people
Wol Euler shrugs. Some of them are, yes. As are some scientists. There are crooks and thieves in every profession.
Wol Euler: It is hard to think that something is a fraud once you see it working in your own life!

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/05/2009.05.29_19%3a00_The_Pain_and_Joy_of_Humor

Keeping the fire burning...

Dakini Rhode: are you familiar with the 9 sec practice?
Eos Amaterasu: Yes... I have been wondering what happens if you actually do it every fifteen minutes
Adams Rubble: sometimes amazing thinngs :)
Dakini Rhode: you turn into Pema
Eos Amaterasu: it is hard because I tend to get caught up in things :-)
Adams Rubble: Hasn't worked for me Dakini. hehe
Dakini Rhode: that was silly of me
Adams Rubble: :)
Eos Amaterasu: You get long hair?
Dakini Rhode: i think that's from eating carrots
Karoz Blogger: Are we doing the 9 secs. now?
Adams Rubble: in a minute times 10
Dakini Rhode: in 1 minute, we'll take a 90 sec pause

Travieso Sella: ah that was an exceptioinally enjoyable silence for me
Dakini Rhode: how so, Trav?
Travieso Sella: Well, silence may not be the operative word here.
The music I was listening to seemed to match up quite well with it.

Dakini Rhode: is humor truly the same as joy?
Dakini Rhode: joy seems simple, uncomplex
Karoz Blogger: Joy is all.
stevenaia Michinaga: joy is acceptance and appreciation
Karoz Blogger: These are easy questions.
Karoz Blogger: Joy is being.
Karoz Blogger: Joy is unconditional.
stevenaia Michinaga: like love?

Eos Amaterasu: social spaces are great for suspending us
Eos Amaterasu: we don't quite know how to be
Eos Amaterasu: the me game becomes more heightened and visible
Eos Amaterasu: as well as the who's you ? game
Eos Amaterasu: and what are we sharing?

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/05/2009.05.30_01%3a00_-_Meditation_101

Attending to Aliveness...

Pila Mulligan: Wol, you meditate?
Wol Euler: irregularly, I can't seem to keep a practice going
Pila Mulligan: Sophia? do you meditate?
sophia Placebo: me ? porposly no, just a moments of mind calmness each day in the garden by sunset ,
early morning or in the night under stars , revewing the day and thoughts , this have been like a habit to me /Pila Mulligan: sounds lovely, Sophia
Scathach Rhiadra: yes it does sound like a meditation to me Sophia:)
Wol Euler: that probably counts as meditation, Sophia :)

sophia Placebo: for me i feel that meditation is like writing your personal philosophy of thoughts , except no word no voice,
only thoughts , no evidence no experiment no awaiting results
Fael Illyar: I meditate only sometimes :)
Fael Illyar: although, I've been doing it a bit more the last few days.
Scathach Rhiadra: whereas for the Buddhists, it is more to do with awareness
Scathach Rhiadra: was everyone at Stim's workshop when he went through his three exercises?
Pila Mulligan: breathing is the most important part of meditation, to me -- those exercises helped us see how contemplation interacts with breathing, among other things

Scathach Rhiadra: it is more like becoming the breathing, and include all that arises, don't have to count for that:)/ just being aware of the moment really, and all that you experience right now
Pila Mulligan: "One final practice: count the breath as before, being disciplined and focused but also welcoming toward the messy bits of our mind functions and perceptions that would normally distract us... but attend in particular to the aliveness you can find within each part of the breath. Enter that aliveness and allow it to open up to more of itself."
Pila Mulligan: quoting Stim -- this is an important part
Pila Mulligan: * attend in particular to the aliveness **
Scathach Rhiadra: thank you Pila:)
Pila Mulligan: feeling the air, or chi
~

Wol Euler: I have a friend who dances tango with great enthusiasm and skill, for twenty years now.
Wol Euler: about every three to four years, she goes back and takes a beginners' course again, to see whether she has picked up any bad habits.
Wol Euler: the same might apply here.

Fael Illyar: perhaps we mean different things with the word 'mind' then...
sophia Placebo: i got this idea from a japanese anime - now dont laugh - that the brain generates a waves
-electromagnatic? - so if you synchronizd btw brain wave and environmet wave , or something like that , then you enter the awarness mode:  it just pop to my mind regarding the benefit of breathing, re adjusting brain waves

Pila Mulligan: Fael, do the feelings of your heart involve the mind?
Fael Illyar: I have no idea but the mind is what perceives them.
Pila Mulligan: have you ever had an inkiling that part of the feeling in the heart is independent of the mind?
Fael Illyar: I'd first need to able to define mind :)
Fael Illyar: and I don't know how to define it
Fael Illyar: I can't say if heart is part of the mind or not.

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/05/2009.05.30_07%3a00_-_PHILOXED

Mere philosophy...

Mickorod Renard: I came to the conclusion that most of it is theoretics, and anyone can do that regardles of the language
.....i became disenchanted in that some debate became nothing more than a play ground for people s eloquent words
Mickorod Renard: dont let it put you off
Mickorod Renard: I am english..but I dont know half the english words that they use in philo
Yakuzza Lethecus: no i enjoy the philosophical perspectives so far
Mickorod Renard: good
Yakuzza Lethecus: i obviously don´t understand everything
Mickorod Renard: and it grows on you,,without u realising
Mickorod Renard: like a skill in welding techniques
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, that implicit learning is what i head for

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/05/2009.05.30_13%3a00_-_Addiction_or_interaction

Nothing to hide...

Mickorod Renard: there is something obvious that I have noticed recently,,that may have something to do with the well being feeling re BEIng etc
Tarmel Udimo: yes?
Mickorod Renard: it seems to inolve light
Mickorod Renard: like for example,,there are references to no head and the relaxing
Mickorod Renard: when I feel I have obtained a state off well being,,in these sorts of matters
Mickorod Renard: what is also obvious is that i have allowed more light into my visionary range
Tarmel Udimo: so things seem lighter or filled with light?
Mickorod Renard: yes,both..more so that its not so dark
Tarmel Udimo: nice place to be

Wester Kiranov: the thing I need on SL is this group of people
arabella Ella nods to Wester, agree
Mickorod Renard: interaction with likeminded people is my drug
Wester Kiranov: but this group is not defined by its people, it's defined by its vision. and that is what attracts me
Wester Kiranov: if there was just a vision nothing would happen
Wester Kiranov: if the was just the people nothing unified would happen

Adelene Dawner: Well, my job is here, my friends are here, most of the things I'm interested in doing are here or on the 'net in general...
Adelene Dawner: You could say that most people are 'addicted' to living where they currently live
 for much the same reason. And my job is primarily on SL, though we're expanding to Opensim as well.

arabella Ella: could we each give one or two reasons as to why we find SL most beneficial?
arabella Ella: me ... mixing with people from all over the world on an equal basis with no baggage...intelligent people too :)
Fael Illyar: Allows me to have a group of friends I can spend time with, no matter where I am in RL :)
Mickorod Renard: doesnt cost money (much),,and saves going out in the cold
Fael Illyar: oh and is much cheaper than spending time with friends in RL :)
arabella Ella: allows you to discuss any topic under the sun
Mickorod Renard: and,i look handsome
arabella Ella: with ppl who have no agendas to hide
arabella Ella: oh yes we are all barbies and kens here
Threedee Shepherd: All of the above re friends and dialog plus convenience--availabel 24/7, no need to dress in RL, etc.
arabella Ella: no feeling cold, no bad weather, no flu, no cleaning or cooking ... etc

Wester Kiranov: It's abit like the Gods realm in Buddhism, isn't it?

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/05/2009.05.30_19%3a00_-_Double_Speak

How long have we really been playing...

stevenaia Michinaga: Pema does have a good way of explaining the approach that is hard to duplicate w/o him
Pila Mulligan: yes, that is the biggest hazard in myopinion
Pila Mulligan: Pema's the foundation of the theory/ but the practice is not at risk in that regard
stevenaia Michinaga: the "energy" here seems to wax and wane with time
Pila Mulligan: just doing the 9 seconds and talking about it
Pila Mulligan: yes, all things go in cycles :)
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, that is fundamental
Pila Mulligan: and Saki was giving more emphasis today to the 'after scinece then what aspect*
stevenaia Michinaga: was it affective?
Pila Mulligan: she did well/ the audience seemed quite familair with SL already
Pila Mulligan: one question she got was how she felt about text vs voice
Pila Mulligan: in her answer she touched on the missing element of presence, but otherwise it was not an
easy question to address

stevenaia Michinaga: it's all about reality, big reality and little reality
Pila Mulligan: indeed
Pila Mulligan: Reality and reality?
stevenaia Michinaga: the difference being?
Pila Mulligan: Being and being
stevenaia Michinaga: awww
Pila Mulligan: :)

Paradise Tennant: :)) well over dinner tonight we were chatting a bit about how human chemistry works ..
Fran and I have been friends for a very long ..and I would say almost every day we have spent together has been fun ..
funny how it works that some people just connect in laughter :))
Pila Mulligan: yes, like adjacent puzzle pieces
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, a remarkable thing how it works as well as how it does not for some other people
Paradise Tennant: yes just like chemical elements :))
Pila Mulligan: now some would say you may have been freinds for many lifetimes
Paradise Tennant: Fran is saying she thinks you are right!
stevenaia Michinaga: if we only knew how we knew
Pila Mulligan: someone once asked Ravi Shankar how long he had been playing the sitar, and he said "for 24 consecutive lifetimes" :)
Pila Mulligan: you don't really need the details, just enjoy the situation :)
Paradise Tennant: yes sometimes you meet some one and you can hear the click/ wow no wonder he is so good :))

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/05/2009.05.31_01%3a00_-_lazy_PaB_%5e%5e

Energizing with tea and snacks...  

Qt Core: i'm not really a fan of green tea, it remind me gras dirtied water ;-)
Fael Illyar: granted, only 100 grams but still.
Fael Illyar: not _that_ different from black tea. in black it's fried grass :)
Qt Core: but this year i found a bottled one i almost like... it call itself tea but it remind me about mint
Moon Fargis: well you can make tea from almost everything
Stargate Tone: ah...it can be very 'grass' taste if done with too hot water
Qt Core: yes i have many herbs here at home... that i dislike
Fael Illyar: Ah, true, have to use water with around 70 degrees for the brewing, otherwise it's quite bitter.
Fael Illyar: (Celsius)
Stargate Tone: as I did also my mistakes with the green tea cuz I have not any thermometer to tell the heat
Stargate Tone: but soon I learned

Moon Fargis: the foolish people can live in order, only the master can handle the mess
Fael Illyar giggles.

Stargate Tone: know them two expressions which are said to be the most difficult to say ?
Fael Illyar: do you mean "sorry" and "thank you"?
Stargate Tone: the first one is right; according what I've let ppl to teach myself
Fael Illyar: ah, second one would be "I love you"?
Stargate Tone: _/!\_
Fael Illyar: yes, those have been very difficult...
Stargate Tone: and they say that 'I love you' is even more difficult to say the more one means it; but in this I wanna
highly remind of them exeptions * but do agree with that saying generally speaking *

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_logs/2009/05/2009.05.31_07%3a00_-_Music_Begins_to_Pay_Itself

Unfolding layers of friendship and compassion
(a personally significan't session, tough to edit) ....

Pema Pera: one thing I've noticed while focusing on it every day for 20 minutes is a gradual shift,
more and more away from me doing it, to it just happening, and me at the same time more as an observer yet also really involved -- hard to put into words

Adams Rubble: can you say more?
Pema Pera: about which aspect?
Adams Rubble: about the shifting away from you doing it
Pema Pera: hmmm, less of an action, yet also no inaction, really something different from both
Pema Pera: words are so limited here . . .
Fael Illyar: what's the difference between action and inaction?
Pema Pera: when I say "beyond duality" it sounds abstract, but the felt sense is very concrete
Adams Rubble: merging?
Pema Pera: usual there is quite a difference of course, Fael, and that's the point, that somehow
that distinction is transcended
Pema Pera: not so much merging
Pema Pera: as more going to the root of both
Pema Pera: seeing both e-merging :-)
Pema Pera: sensing more the openness that allows both

Adams Rubble: Eliza's observation then is a withdrawal from the self and that is the connection
to what you are experiencing Pema?
Pema Pera: withdrawing is perhaps not the right word
Pema Pera: letting go of the illusion of there being a self, a central switchboard
Pema Pera: and appreciating how nature/the universe/Being operates
Adams Rubble: Seeing the nature/the universe/Being with different eyes?
Pema Pera: let them see :-)
Pema Pera: rather than seeing them
Adams Rubble: ah
Pema Pera: that "letting" is the shift I was trying to point to

Eliza Madrigal: Pema, there was also a phrase you used with regard to the appreciation excercize, which I liked, and have thought about but in sort of a distant way.... "raw givenness"
Eliza Madrigal: Is there anything else you can say about what you mean by that? If you have time?
Pema Pera: yes, when we deal with anything at all, anything that appears, we normally see only the handle, the judgment, rather than what appears as such
Pema Pera: a chair is seen as something to sit on, primarily
Pema Pera: a spoon as something to eat with
Pema Pera:a friend often also, in a subtle way, as something to "get" something from -- perhaps not overtly so, but if we really look into our hearts of hearts, that may be the case -- for me at least I keep discovering more and more subtle layers like that, which I didn't see earlier . . . rather sobering
Pema Pera: a friend as something to learn from, or to feel less lonely through, etc etc
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, okay.. thank you. And I do see that... we can see someone as what we think they are 'supposed' to be to us.
Pema Pera: oh yes, we tend to do that all the time
Eliza Madrigal nods
Pema Pera: and then we see a few layers of the onion, peel those off, and congratulate ourselves that NOW we can be with someone in an honest way
Pema Pera: until we see ever more subtle layers :-)
Pema Pera: only by dropping something do we become aware we were carrying that kind of ballast

Adams Rubble: The Buddhist idea of not making a distinction between one's loved ones and everyone else as far as compassion is concerned seemed to be related to what you are saying about friends Pema
Pema Pera: ah, that's a sticky wicket, Adams :-)
Adams Rubble: yes
Pema Pera: I don't think they really suggest that you should not make a difference
Pema Pera: at least in daily everyday life
Adams Rubble sighs with relief  :)
Pema Pera: yet at the same time, you also extend your love and compassion everywhere
Pema Pera: like in Christianity!
Pema Pera: everyone is your neighbor
Pema Pera: as you will be reminded at during the youngest day :-)
Pema Pera: "anything you did to xxx you did to me"
Pema Pera: Really, Christianity is as radical as Buddhism in that sense, don't you think, Adams?
Pema Pera: Jesus telling his disciples to leave their family, not even to return for a funeral: let the dead bury the dead -- WOW

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/05/2009.05.31_13%3a00_-_Dreams%2c_Higg's_boson_and_beyond...

What is possible...

Maxine Walden: Trav, could it be both, that you are dreaming, and possibly in someone else's dream?
Travieso Sella: I suppose it could.
Maxine Walden: Steve, yes, interesting, sometimes for me I recall dreams that seem to occur very near waking...but also that there are some which seem to come from very deep sleep, or rather from a deep state of wisdom, deep answers to questions I have been pondering
Maxine Walden: and do you sometimes find that you know that you have to sleep or nap in order to have a dream? I have that experience not infrequently
Maxine Walden: as if I know I need to have a dream and am drawn to sleep just for that dream
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I use sleep (or the next day) to answer important questions, even when pressed, as the time between days, even if dreaming is not overtly part of the span, allows the mind subconcious to assist with the answers,

stevenaia Michinaga: there seem to be no "lets all have a 90 second dream" and discuss it, ability built into humans
Maxine Walden: my personal notion is that there is a process of transformation at the boundary between conscious and unconscious sectors of the mind, and the sophistication of that transformational capacity (which may vary in each of us over time) is a large factor in the wisdom
Pila Mulligan: there is certainly a transition at the boundary between conscious waking and unconscious dreaming worlds
stevenaia Michinaga: boundry between control and the randomess of dreaming
Maxine Walden: yes,Pila
Pila Mulligan: we usually seem to easily see the distinction between waking and dreaming
Pila Mulligan: waking life is full of specifics -- place, time and date, weather, social rules, gravity, etc. -- that define the environment of waking life -- there are not many comparable specifics in dreams ...
Pila Mulligan: it is probably because of the continuity of these specifics that we do not question the waking environment as a collective experience -- so a group of people in waking life see themselves in a shared environment without thinking about it ...
Pila Mulligan: but because of the discontinuity of the dreams world, the shared environment notion is less certain, the idea of a group dream is therefore met with skepticism ...
Pila Mulligan: but I still wonder, how do we interct i dreams?
Maxine Walden: and yet an intriguing concept, Pila
Pila Mulligan: interact*
Maxine Walden: if there is a collective unconscious, one we all share and inherit, then the notion of shared dreaming might not seem so far fetched

Pila Mulligan: maybe in dreams our waking assumptions define the boundaries of things -- we see a car in a dream and we assign it car characteristics, but you can pick it up if yuou want to, in a dream
Maxine Walden: but you make me wonder whether there is a different 'mass' or gravity in the conscious vs unconscious...yes, there are no 'rules' that hold in the unconscious...so that would be closer to your notion of the dreamer lifting the car
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: my wondering also, Maxine
Pila Mulligan: thanks to this Higgs boson
Maxine Walden: ah...
Maxine Walden: interesting possible intersection of the dream/dreamer and aspects of reality which the physicists show us
Pila Mulligan: yep ... at least we non-scientists have the liberty of wandeing into such zones

Pila Mulligan: I think he is sincere about his desire to enlighten, but also human
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nodsnods.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I feel certain that he is doing good stuff.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and really teaching.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but that to me, doesn't erase my sceptism about magic religion.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that it is a way of making one person or group seem to have power I don't.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and that I need to follow them to acquire it.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that's my sceptism, anyway.
Wol Euler: my gut feeling is that anyhting that can only be sold by "magic" is not worth buying
Pila Mulligan: and a healthy skepticims it is, too
Corvuscorva Nightfire sighs..I'm probably too sceptical for my own good, really.
Pila Mulligan: however, I think it is good to be aware of this and toher examples of unexpected things -- some may be true
... I promise you rain is the happy ending to many hawaiian ceremonies, but people inevitably try to rationalize that when
I tell them

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/05/2009.05.31_19%3a00_-_New_Introductions

Corvuscorva Nightfire: so, has anyone had any experiences with the 9 seconds lately?
stevenaia Michinaga: not so much recently, I usually stumble upon a meditative moment randomly... smile
Corvuscorva Nightfire: mm

stevenaia Michinaga: guests are always welcome, but feel free to come anytime
stevenaia Michinaga: have you ever tried our 9 second meditation?
Davmar Hykova: no i haven't
Davmar Hykova: but I will
stevenaia Michinaga: early results of the short meditation are always intriguing
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs.
stevenaia Michinaga: and who really misses 9 seconds for a short distraction

Pila Mulligan: why rationalize it -- it happens :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles.
Pila Mulligan: really it does