13-15 - Minding Edges

 (Scribe by Eliza, in progress)

2010.02.13 13:00 - Smiling at Fear 

Eos Amaterasu: Today is "neutral day" - after the previous year's bad stuff has all been piled up, and with the New Year tiger about to leap out tomorrow
SophiaSharon Larnia: ooooh is that it????
SophiaSharon Larnia: i feel something ...  lol

Eos Amaterasu: http://www.amazon.com/Smile-Fear-Awa.../dp/1590306961
arabella Ella: Chogyam Trungpa
Eos Amaterasu: roar :-)
Eos Amaterasu: very straightforward language
Eos Amaterasu: start where you are is really start at the end
Eos Amaterasu: cause there's nowhere else to go
Bertram Jacobus: transformations ...
Eos Amaterasu: where we are is often tinged with fear(s)
Bertram Jacobus: dissolving illusions ...
Eos Amaterasu: not escaping hard realities
arabella Ella: facing fear? how?
Bertram Jacobus: like every facing
Eos Amaterasu: first opening the eyes a crack
Eos Amaterasu: and acknowledging the fear that's there
Eos Amaterasu: quick little peek
Eos Amaterasu: look again
Eos Amaterasu: maybe it's there
Eos Amaterasu: maybe not
Eos Amaterasu: make a little bit friends with it, humor it
Eos Amaterasu: back & forth
SophiaSharon Larnia: humor it?
Eos Amaterasu: yeah, if you push it away it takes on more ugly faces
Eos Amaterasu: it's like in dreams, when you look at and speak to the fearful thingie or person, it usually gets a lot more normal
Widget Whiteberry: breathing regularly helps too
arabella Ella nods
Eos Amaterasu: being ordinary, accepting it in ordinariness

2010.02.13 19:00 - Dancing on Rooftop 

Eos Amaterasu: the year of the metal white tiger is upon us
Benedizione Vita: metal white tiger?
Eos Amaterasu: The Chinese New Year
Benedizione Vita: but metal...?
Benedizione Vita: and white...?
Eos Amaterasu: they go in cycles of elements: earth, water, fire, air, metal x 12 animals = 60-year cycles
Eos Amaterasu: don't know about the white tiger aspect

Eden Haiku: Dancing on rooftop/Listening to ' psychic city/ My own Bollywood

Pema Pera: it may be difficult to answer, Eden, but is there anything so far in your travel that has been especially unexpected?
Pema Pera: or different from your ideas beforehand?
Archmage Atlantis: Like seeing Avatar in Hindi?
Pema Pera: :)
Eden Haiku: Hum. It is my 3rd time in India. I spent almost 2 years here a long time ago. Every time is so different. I am different. This is the unexpected part.
Eden Haiku: Last time I was not in an ashram, traveling by myself. Lots of fear then. Not now. Still anger sometimes

Eos Amaterasu: "Beyond the beliefs / of any one religion / there is the truth of /the human spirit"
Eos Amaterasu: Happy Metal Tiger year, btw!

2010.02.14 01.00 - Warm conversation 

Susi Alcott: as to me it's so, that when one 'finds one's self', that 'self' grows up,,,and there's again 'something to find'
Lawrence Vyceratops: What what is doing the finding and what is being found? What is the difference between the finder and the found?
Susi Alcott: you speak Law like enlightened person does _/!\_
Lawrence Vyceratops: I'm not sure of that...
Susi Alcott: to 'find' oneself is just to find wha't is 'there' existing....
Susi Alcott: so...that's the point, that how knows all of one's self....
Lawrence Vyceratops: "There" is in quotations...
Susi Alcott: who knows
Susi Alcott: ah yes....cuz all one can be aware of, is not one's self
Lawrence Vyceratops: This reminds me of awareness, a popularly confusing topic.
Susi Alcott: that can be confusing also
Susi Alcott: depends on many things
Susi Alcott: that can be also clarifying
Lawrence Vyceratops: But, why is it confusing? Don't we all have a similar dictionary? haha ;)
Susi Alcott: ah...that's the point; we dont

2010.02.14 07:00 - Valentine Love 

Eliza Madrigal: Eden visits us/ Wifi in India rocks/ Funny Valentine
Eden Haiku: Pigeons trained from rooftop to rooftop this afternoon
Eliza Madrigal: How do they know? Like they know before they know, or without knowing...turn and swoop together....
Eden Haiku: Like swimming in the sky, hundreds of them all gold and white
Agatha Macbeth: Probably have WiFi...
Eliza Madrigal: like a flash
Eliza Madrigal: heheheheh Agatha
Agatha Macbeth: :0
Eliza Madrigal: sounds like quite a display, Eden... beholding life and its wonders
Eden Haiku: Yes lost art of carrier pigeon and wifi in same space
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal breathes and smiles
Eden Haiku: Groups of kindred souls shifting shapes in 9 seconds flutterings of their wings

Eden Haiku: And then a corpse wrapped in white silk down in the street
Eliza Madrigal: life and death at once....
Eden Haiku: Yes death showing up
Agatha Macbeth: Ah, the grim reaper
Agatha Macbeth: Scythe and all
Eliza Madrigal: death seems natural part ... letting go
Eden Haiku: Yes letting go
Eden Haiku: So amazing, how do they know, the birds? We know as well if we just let go
Eden Haiku: The master art of doing nothing
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Eden Haiku: Flowing in and out

 2010.02.14 08:00 - Guardian Session: We Can Push Them Over the Edge 

Eliza Madrigal: that's what these meetings are for :) brainstorming, etc
Maxine Walden: Donations/money is so hard to talk about or often to refer to....it seems so mundane and perhaps feels coercive
compared to many of our other topics
Eliza Madrigal nods
Maxine Walden: but for such a long time Pema carried the whole financial issue on his shoulders...and now we are trying to open it up, have the rest of us become more aware of the costs as well as the benefits of PaB
Eliza Madrigal: yes... and perhaps there are creative ideas, energies that might come to the surface along the way
Maxine Walden: yes indeed
Zen Arado: are people taking up the subsidies to the retreats?
Zen Arado: two people each time?
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think there were funds available for the last retreat... Am I right, Eos? This is part of why it seems right to set a goal for donations....
Eos Amaterasu: We have not done that yet, but have "budgeted" to be able to offer scholarships
Bleu Oleander: how do people qualify for these scholarships?
Eos Amaterasu: Last retreat made a bit of money, which we'll apply to that
Eos Amaterasu: I guess contact me (as the retreat coordinator, currently), and the working group will oversee allocating funds
Zen Arado: just wondering ...if no one takes the offers up...

Eos Amaterasu: I think idea is if someone is on the edge financially, we can push them over the edge :-)

The edges are where the potentials are; good to tread gently... 

 2010.02.14 13:00 - Opening to authentic feelings 

Maxine Walden: I gather you had a very good experience at the recent retreat?
Maxine Walden: personal experience
Wol Euler: well ... yes I did
Wol Euler: and a pretty hellish middle of the week after it.
Maxine Walden: oh, so sorry...what happened that is sharable?
Wol Euler: I've talked about this already, my friday morning session with Cal and Liza, so it's not private.
Wol Euler: I fell into a pretty deep pit of despair and self-loathing :)
Maxine Walden: ah...sounds very painful and debilitating perhaps
Wol Euler: it was pretty grim, yes.
Maxine Walden: do you think it had anything to do with aftermath from the retreat, rebound phenomenon or something of the like?
Wol Euler: exactly that, Maxine, it was a delayed effect of the retreat
Wol Euler: comparing the experience there to my life here.
Wol Euler: it felt absurd and hopeless to try to achieve that clarity in my RL
Wol Euler: and I condemned myself for being so weak and unable

Maxine Walden: You know, I am wondering whether we all might be feeling something worth sharing or putting
words to: a kind of 'wish I were happier' or loneliness when we 'should be happier...' something like that?
Fael Illyar lets out a giganting, roating 'MEEEP!'
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Maxine Walden: There is the recent retreat, and then this 'happy' Valentines Day...and sometimes I feel
that I should be happier in these circumstanes...sure that everyone else is having a 'good time'.
arabella Ella feels the vibes in Fael's MEEP
Wol Euler nods and raises her hand.

Wol Euler: I think that is part of what happened to me after the retreat, that after living without those compromises I saw myself mired in them here.
Maxine Walden: doubt that you were alone in that, Wol, feeling the mire after the freedom from such at the retreat
Eliza Madrigal nods, wow... yes. It can be painful to see that parts of one's life are buried... and can feel impossible to get to
Zen Arado: but even at a retreat don't you play a role a little?
Fael Illyar: Ah, so the retreat opened your eyes again
Wol Euler: sure! but a different one. A much cleaner one.
Wol Euler: you get a taste of a simple and clean and worthy life.
Wol Euler: and then come home and go back to work.

Eliza Madrigal: maybe it can be a good pain... and I don't say that to be dismissive AT ALL....
Maxine Walden: And if we could realize that 'going back to work' involves allowing those old mires...maybe that
could be informing...and allow us to be more compassionate about our 'everyday' selves
Eliza Madrigal: but when I'm overwhelmed I often think "yeah, but I'm feeling something, seeing something"
Eliza Madrigal nods to Maxine
Wol Euler: true, maxine, and true eliza.
Fael Illyar: the mires need accepting, not hiding :)
Maxine Walden: Stim might suggest that we accept the mires as part of ourselves as well...yes, Fael

Wol Euler: I think that at least some of the distress I felt was due to the unexpectedness of this fall into
the mire. I'd have been less shocked and dismayed if I had known that shock and dismay were possible results.
Fael Illyar: they're always possible results :)
Eliza Madrigal nods... I mentioned feeling a bit like that one day to Stim and he said "yes, I see, Good"
or something to that effect
Maxine Walden: very good point, Wol. A falling into the pit without recognition that it might be coming
Wol Euler: Stim is so refreshingly bracing :)

 2010.02.14 19:00 - What is this thing called, Mind? 

Calvino Rabeni: Can I ask, then, what specifically about the topic of mind to you find most intriguing?
Lawrence Vyceratops: Most people I talk to in RL are more concerned with video games and gadgets, mind you, I
have gadgets too, but... you get my drift, I'm sure.
Calvino Rabeni: Surely
Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, the fact that humans have one and, yet, everyone is confused.
Lawrence Vyceratops: ...and they are angry and violent, which is the more pressing problem.
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it seems, the mind was not designed ... to be clear and straightforward
Lawrence Vyceratops: Perhaps, or there simply was a wrong turn, or the right turn was missed.
Calvino Rabeni: There are many stories to account for it :)
Calvino Rabeni: As if an explanation were needed ... of course this would be reassuring
Lawrence Vyceratops: A reassuring comfort would be for an explanation to be seen by oneself.

Calvino Rabeni: This is close to the idea of what this PlayAsBeing group is supposed to be about
Calvino Rabeni: Let's discover what is there
Calvino Rabeni: By playing with it
--BELL--

Lawrence Vyceratops: I believe we were talking about discovering what is there.
Lawrence Vyceratops: As opposed to seeing a goal and then going to that.
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, and I thought you might believe "wisdom" was a bit too far
Lawrence Vyceratops: Perhaps. We have not gotten into that.
Calvino Rabeni: Sure
Lawrence Vyceratops: So, I said that some things that are there are sight, sounds, thoughts, time, etc...
Calvino Rabeni: Anything to add to that list ?
Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, there are sensations, emotions, memories...
Lawrence Vyceratops: We can look at these things to discover what is there.
Calvino Rabeni: In a word, appearances ?
Calvino Rabeni: Anyway, plenty to "work" with

Calvino Rabeni: You seem pretty principled in you approach to thinking about mind.
Lawrence Vyceratops: I have been thinking for a long time. hahaha ;)
Calvino Rabeni: :)

Working with the chat logs this week allowed me to uncover a bit of a mystery, as I do not get a chance to attend many of Tarmel's sessions...  

2010.02.15 01:00 - Finding the lost bits 

 
Tarmel Udimo: well the times i have truely felt connected via the PaB method
Tarmel Udimo: I did have an experience on the beach when we were doing exercises that led me to see how the universe has no 'meaning' - it exists, this is its meaning,
Tarmel Udimo: this was scary and difficult to handle, it was like looking into the void...
Tarmel Udimo: but the flip side of that has been wonderous - the few times i have really opened up and celebrated the now - its been wonderous
Tarmel Udimo: and the energy was very clean and simply was what it was
Tarmel Udimo: which is just energy with no agenda except to continue 'living' being alive
Tarmel Udimo: this is the most powerful of energies - the life force
Tarmel Udimo: I have no idea what it is and i no longer try to figure it out
Tarmel Udimo: I have spent many many years trying to 'figure' it out to no avail
Tarmel Udimo: it is only now that I realise it is all experiential and subjective
Tarmel Udimo: you cannot 'think' about 'god' you can only experience
Tarmel Udimo: and 'god' is life:)
Calvino Rabeni: Well as long as there's a way, it doesn't matter whether it's thinking or feeling or experiencing, or whatever
Calvino Rabeni: Maybe all of them
Tarmel Udimo: sure.. however i believe that experiencing something fully is deeper than thinking and feeling
Tarmel Udimo: rational thought cannot understand this which is why one can go crazy if you try to use your mind to sort it all out
Calvino Rabeni: sure why bother oneself with a method of limited capacity
Tarmel Udimo: exactly:)
Calvino Rabeni: It is said, there are shamans who travel in the middle realm
Tarmel Udimo: yes we all do
Tarmel Udimo: why would they not:)

 2010.02.15 07:00 - What´s guardian´s what´s pab ? 

Yakuzza Lethecus: How come you found this place ?
Lawrence Vyceratops: I am interested in the mind.
Wester Kiranov: and how did that lead you here?
Lawrence Vyceratops: Search bar in SL. :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: When I discovered SL, I was hoping it could lead me to a place like this.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Most of the people I talk to in RL are not concerned with what the mind is.
Yakuzza Lethecus: I know the issue, and the problem to elaborate upon these topics.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, indeed. haha
Yakuzza Lethecus: Actually this wasn´t what i was looking for in the first place :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: Do share.
Yakuzza Lethecus: I was looking for something more regular scientifc, and philosophical :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: So i found places like thothica,thephilosophyclass,kira cafe first
--BELL--
Yakuzza Lethecus: this is more the contemplative field but i am still facinated by the ppl around here and even when it´s harder
for me i still think i learn even much around pab
Lawrence Vyceratops: :)

2010.02.15 19:00 - What is Mind 

 
Lawrence Vyceratops: Who would like to begin?
stevenaia Michinaga: I am ready to listen :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: Haha
stevenaia Michinaga: sometime the beginning happens just at the appropriate time
stevenaia Michinaga: can you give us your impression of you time thus far, Lawrence
stevenaia Michinaga: *your
Lawrence Vyceratops: Of PaB?
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: what keeps you returning?
Lawrence Vyceratops: It's interesting, to me, and I'm glad that the organization exists.
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, I enjoy having discussions about what I believe the original exploration/experiment was.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Exploration into the question of what IS.
stevenaia Michinaga: you mean taking a moment to explore reality outside looking in?
stevenaia Michinaga: and inside looking out
Lawrence Vyceratops: What do you mean by that?

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: there was a very early exercise we do here simply stated as YSBS, you see, being sees, where you take the 9 seconds or 90 seconds and see Being from your viewpoint and then take the perspective of "Being" seeing
stevenaia Michinaga: it offers an opportunity to play with your view of reality
stevenaia Michinaga: and of what Being is
Lawrence Vyceratops: Are you saying that YS is looking at things subjectively and BS is looking at things objectively?
stevenaia Michinaga: I suppose that depends of who and what is doing the looking