28-31 - Sharing it All
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For me, these sessions are windows into different aspects of what it means to cultivate Continuity of Presence.
It seemed to make sense, what with RL retreaters returning, Sl retreats beginning, and people digging into important discussions regarding the wide visions of Play as Being as a whole, to give this scribe three parts.
-Appreciating Meditation and Perception
-RL Retreat Reports
-SL Retreat and Discussions of Teachers
Appreciating Meditation and Perception
How interesting to think about meditation and practice as retreat. What about surrender?
http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/08/2009.08.28_01%3a00_-_The_retreaters_are_asleep
Bertrum Quan: retreat, is to withdraw, to get away from, to move backwards... it can suggest defeat (tactical or strategic).
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: Napoleon and Moscow, and all that.
Wol Euler: perhaps we should call it a "consolidation" instead...
Bertrum Quan: depends on the "it."
Wol Euler: specifically in the context of meditational or other Retreating
Bertrum Quan: Yes, in that case, consolidation, is better--especially because it suggests a sense of oneness or wholeness.
Wol Euler: which is (for me at least) a large part of the purpose of the whole thing
Bertrum Quan: I agree.
http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/08/2009.08.29_01%3a00_-_Practice
Scathach Rhiadra: practice is more than just formal sitting meditation, I think
Bertrum Quan: Yes. It can be both mind and body practice on a number of levels
Scathach Rhiadra: and some of the breathing methods can be done no matter what you doing,
so helps with continuity of presence
(Well worth reading the entire text here, as Pila methodically outlines practical aspects of meditation)
Pila Mulligan: but you can reduce the essentials to three elements, in my opinion
Pila Mulligan: 1. posture
Pila Mulligan: 2. breathing
Pila Mulligan: 3. contemplation
Pila Mulligan: all three are directly related, too
Pila Mulligan: posture is anything that is supportive of breathing
Pila Mulligan: sitting, walking, even laying down
Pila Mulligan: but not all scrunched up
Pila Mulligan: as that inhibits breathing
Pila Mulligan: the idea is to let the contemplation multiply the effect with the breathing and posture
Pila Mulligan: so the result is a lighter sense of Being
http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/08/2009.08.29_13%3a00_-_Detachment_vs_Disinterest
SophiaSharon Larnia: What is the difference between detachment and disinterest?
Pila Mulligan: good question SophiaSharon
Pila Mulligan: each implies some objectivity, but indifference is more likely to be without compassion
Scathach Rhiadra: disinterest seems like a kind of aversion
Pila Mulligan: a rejection?
SophiaSharon Larnia: Ive asked several people, and what stuck with me is the idea that disinterest is judgemental
Pila Mulligan: disinterest as a judgement makes sense
Pila Mulligan: as a distinction from detachment
Eliza Madrigal: yes, the aversion Scath mentioned
~
Qt Core: i had great food too today at a wedding
Qt Core: great food, great place, great weather, a nice couple of friends being wedded, a great day
Qt Core: a feeling of something finally going the way things should go
http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/08/2009.08.30_01%3a00_-_Let_them_talk
Bertram Jacobus: yes. and i always like to say judgements are not bad, but condemnations are
Pila Mulligan: yep
Pila Mulligan: how else can ethics work, except by being aware of values
Bertram Jacobus: ty pila. i´m happy to hear that from another in spirituality interested person
Pila Mulligan: thank you
Bertram Jacobus: i think, very often the "absolute" and the relative stage are mixed in relation to that topic (values)
Pila Mulligan: one ideal may be to have no ideals, but that is hypothetical
Bertram Jacobus: i don´t think, that that is a single ideal, because to deny the relative realities makes no sense to me
Susi Alcott: in case nothing is judged, nothing can either change the hurting behaviers
Pila Mulligan: similar ideas there -- seeing the relaitve realities allows you to find the best path
Bertram Jacobus: on the other hand, for sure it is wonderful when one can relax for a while or on a certain stage without those values - too
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/08/2009.08.30_19:00_-_Title_goes_here
A wonderful wave...
Pila Mulligan: I'd say the essential nature of mind is perception
Pila Mulligan: including the perception of change
Pila Mulligan: does that work with you?
Paradise Tennant: nope it is the empty before space .. it is the mirror which plays perception
Fox Monacular: what about sense making?
Paradise Tennant: lol
Paradise Tennant: fox ..lovely question :)))))
Pila Mulligan: naked void awareness of the empty before space makes sense in the simplest context to me
Fox Monacular: i mean we experience something and we make sense of it as void or change?
Pila Mulligan: our experience is an accumulation of perceptions
Fox Monacular: accumulation of perceptions through the lens of our sense-making apparatus perhaps?
Pila Mulligan: yes
Pila Mulligan: our perceptions fill up space
Paradise Tennant: eats a cookie .. happy in her senses :)
Fox Monacular: but how do we start making sense? what determines it?
Pila Mulligan: continuity
Pila Mulligan: observed continuity
Pila Mulligan: even if false
Fox Monacular: but do you think it is universal for human mind, or culture and context dependent?
Fox Monacular: yes, I see what you mean
Pila Mulligan: the latter
Pila Mulligan: and a little the former
Fox Monacular: right:)
Pila Mulligan: mostly context
Pila Mulligan: we give significance to things
Pila Mulligan: it is not inherent in things to have significance
Pila Mulligan: we make that an attribute of our perception
Pila Mulligan: oh, this is significant
Fox Monacular: right, things before us have data, but we attribute information to them
Pila Mulligan: and from that we construct space
Pila Mulligan: as a perception
Fox Monacular: what do you think is the difference between perception and sensation?
Pila Mulligan: maybe none
Pila Mulligan: maybe none
Pila Mulligan: yet there seem to be 'universal' perceptions in the human mind
Pila Mulligan: mountain, sea, clouds, hot, cold, light, dark
Fox Monacular: right, like face recognition
Pila Mulligan: so those are real by consensus
Fox Monacular: through learning
Pila Mulligan: and expereince :)
Pila Mulligan: sea, swim
Pila Mulligan: mountain, climb
Pila Mulligan: clouds, fly
Fox Monacular: dark, monsters:)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: eeek
Pila Mulligan: now let's let those things be then, simply be
Pila Mulligan: what are they when we just let them be?
Pila Mulligan: answer: a form
Fox Monacular: nothing, really
Pila Mulligan: a mountain form, a clud form, etc
Pila Mulligan: an empty form
Fox Monacular: form is also a property... perhaps just stuff...
Pila Mulligan: here, I'm saying a shape then
Pila Mulligan: an image
Pila Mulligan: an empty shape or image
Pila Mulligan: until we fill it up
Paradise Tennant:" ..to recognize the continuity and all pervasiveness of this void nature.. this absence of any true
existence is to recognize absolute truth.. this is the natural state of mind .. untouched by any obscuration.. in which
all phenomena are seen a the buddha sees them .. as dreams or magical illusions .."
Pila Mulligan: 'the empty before space'
Pila Mulligan: naked void awareness
Fox Monacular: so to see this one has to clearly get un-attached to all things, and recognize that everything is the same, including the very mind
Paradise Tennant: hmm yes
Pila Mulligan: well, and to stop filling them up
Fox Monacular: right
Paradise Tennant: lol
Paradise Tennant: we be right on it :))
Fox Monacular: sounds easy
Pila Mulligan: the magical illusions do not disappear
Fox Monacular: :))
Pila Mulligan: pass the tea please :)
Paradise Tennant: shares her oatmeal cookies :))
Pila Mulligan: thank you