2008.04.10 19:00 - Science, contemplation, purpose and grounding

Types dropped by again, followed by Friedrich and Tara. True to form, Types had shape shifted again, this time coming in as a monkey. We all shared a cup of green tea from the chatty chawan in the tea house. Types mentioned the special gyokuro tea that he special orders from Kyoto in RL. I told him that in Kyoto I had once seen a monkey that looked just like Types’ avatar, size, shape and color; it was in the low foot hills to the North West of the city. Types then talked about an autobiography of Hakuin , Japanese zen master, translated in English as Wild Ivy.

Friedrich then brought up the comparison of science and contemplation.

Friedrich Ochsenhorn: pema, you talk about scientific knowledge being intergenrational. how is this any different
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i recall you saying something about contemplative, introspective practices limited to a life time
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: but, don’t they build on their past too?
Pema Pera: Freidrich is refering to a talk I gave in RL a couple weeks ago
Types Sideways: oh
Pema Pera: I talked about science being slow, each generation building a little bit upon the foundations of the previous ones
Pema Pera: while in meditation and contemplation we’d really like to see the whole shlebang in our lifetime ;>)
Types Sideways: we have a lifetime?
Pema Pera: nice point!
Pema Pera: no, not really
Pema Pera: no life no time
Types Sideways: just messing with you
Pema Pera: you’re right!
Pema Pera: in science we say that you can use different coordinates
Pema Pera: in one coordinate system you can say, yes, we live in time
Pema Pera: but in another one there is no time
Pema Pera: and that one is more fundamental
Pema Pera: but I am talking metaphorically here
Types Sideways: relatively
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: still, we pick up where others left off. otherwise, why read their books?
Pema Pera: sure
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: this point is relevant, i think, in our desire to communicate and share these ideas and ideologies
Pema Pera: well, there is a difference
Pema Pera: this is a big topic but let me try
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: well, relax in that case. i am not trying ot put you on the spot
Types Sideways: I cant stop typing it seems
Pema Pera: hence “Types” haha
Pema Pera: In science you ask questions that can be answered
Pema Pera: just the next question that is around the corner
Pema Pera: but in contemplation, like Zen, you ask impossible questions and look for a break through
Pema Pera: That part is very different.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: but, i do feel that analysis is important here. non-judgemental awareness/grace/enlightenment are wonderful, but we need to bring them back to the mundane world
Pema Pera: ultimately, sure
Pema Pera: but without experience there is nothing to bring back
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: for sure.
Types Sideways: there is difference btween the words and the thing in itself
Pema Pera: absolutely

With Tara we talked about various topics, from quantum mechanics to Being.

Tara Farmer: let’s talk about quantum mechanics and what it means in your realities
Pema Pera: wow quite a topic!
Types Sideways: wow
Pema Pera: great minds wow alike
Types Sideways: tough crowd
Tara Farmer: he he
Tara Farmer: were you already discussing this?
Pema Pera: no, but we can
Types Sideways: no no
Pema Pera: ha ha
Types Sideways: thats a new topic
Tara Farmer: just a bunch of frggin geniuses eh
Types Sideways: :))
Pema Pera: yeah, we keep ourselves amused
Pema Pera: quantummechanically if need be
Tara Farmer: he he
Tara Farmer: what quantum mechanics is in my life
Tara Farmer: so anyway, my report\
Pema Pera: yes?
Tara Farmer: i really get lost in life sometimes
Tara Farmer: all it takes is for me to remember that i create my own reality, and it changes
Tara Farmer: but somehow, i get lost again
Tara Farmer: if i could only remember this fact, i would be much better off
Tara Farmer: and again
Tara Farmer: and again
Tara Farmer: am i slave to my emotions?
Pema Pera: can you say a bit more?
Tara Farmer: i seek to try to change
Tara Farmer: i’m a little off tonight
Tara Farmer: and sometimes don’t make much sense of things in my head
Pema Pera: not to worry!
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: well, i would suggest this is connected to our last topic. stopping and accepting the flow of Being, vs. attempting to change or manifest specific realities
Tara Farmer: so, i guess it’s more like, my understanding of this idea (topic) of quantum mechanics is that if i can change my mind i can change my reality
Tara Farmer: this is the premise to this idea? right?
Tara Farmer: <—layman
Pema Pera: well to some extent that is true, but I’m not sure how much qm can help you
Pema Pera: in a direct way
Pema Pera: qm is certainly a beacon
Tara Farmer: well def not directly
Pema Pera: or metaphor
Pema Pera: that tells us that even matter is not what it seems
Pema Pera: and we are most definitely not what we seem
Pema Pera: If I may start from scratch here
Types Sideways: it doesnt matter
Pema Pera: what we are doing is based on the notion that Being is playing us
Pema Pera: but to understand that we return the compliment
Pema Pera: and try to play as Being
Pema Pera: to try to “get” it
Tara Farmer: ahh like a trickster?
Pema Pera: yeah
Pema Pera: basically
Pema Pera: so all the things you’d like to change
Pema Pera: are things you have
Pema Pera: why not go directly for what you are?
Pema Pera: no need to change anything
Pema Pera: almost too simple
Tara Farmer: yeah that’s what i do
Tara Farmer: but forget
Pema Pera: welcome to the club!
Tara Farmer: ha ha
Tara Farmer: well that makes me feel better already
Pema Pera: that’s why I suggested the 9-sec practice
Pema Pera: every 15 minutes
Tara Farmer: that others feel this way
Pema Pera: lest we forget
Pema Pera: this is forgetful anonymous here!
Tara Farmer: yeah really
Tara Farmer: i happen to like getting lost sometimes
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: well, my understanding revolves around the fact that what we are trying to “get” is unity
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: the equivalence, or even identity of subjective and objective
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: and all there is

Friedrich talked about his way of working the 9-sec exploration.

Tara Farmer: and my intention is strong
Pema Pera: have you tried the 9-sec thingy?
Tara Farmer: yes i did pema
Types Sideways: but there is no we doing it
Pema Pera: true!
Pema Pera: how did it go, Tara?
Tara Farmer: it went
Pema Pera: came and went? ;>)
Tara Farmer: you got it
Tara Farmer: but i did write a few things down
Tara Farmer: the first day
Pema Pera: Glad to hear that!
Tara Farmer: i just have to stop making excuses, which is the idea
Pema Pera: yeah, exactly
Tara Farmer: FOCUS
Pema Pera: yes, not a matter of time
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: tara, i lasped pretty badly this week. the weekend was the worst, at an all day thing i attended
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i had a hard time coming back and centering.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i will claim that this practice has recursive qualityies, and that talking about it and sharing it while not quite as powerful as doing it, counts for something
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: makes me feel good and centered, at least
Tara Farmer: is my lack of focus my minds true intent?
Types Sideways: nobody else can tell you what you are
Tara Farmer: that was more rhetorical than anything
Types Sideways: simple things always sound too simple
Pema Pera: sharing is essential, Friedrich
Pema Pera: if it is based on real experience
Pema Pera: it will help us all to get more real
Pema Pera: relatively speaking
Pema Pera: of course we are already real
Pema Pera: but we can help each other to see it
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: what i am getting at is the idea that talking about this practice is another form of doing it
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: perhaps
Tara Farmer: i see what you are saying
Pema Pera: up to a point
Pema Pera: it cannot replace doing it
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: granted. but, i have gotten into phenomenal conversations with friends about htis, and am even hoping to bring some people into sl soon, hopefully to share some of these ideas
Tara Farmer: i think my problem, partially, is performance anxiety
Tara Farmer: which i have a real problem with
Pema Pera: how so, Tara?
Tara Farmer: eh, like i’m going to screw it up
Tara Farmer: but we already talked of this
Pema Pera: what type of performance?
Pema Pera: Friedrich, are you continuing to try the practice of 9-sec?
Tara Farmer: well, i feel like i have a purpose and if i can’t get there, what will happen?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: as i mentioned, this weekend was rough, but i got back into it during the workweek
Pema Pera: great!
Types Sideways: take care everyone
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i am still on the hourly routine, not always writing
Tara Farmer: that’s lame, i know, to think
Tara Farmer: bye types
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: but, it sneaks into the rest of my hour
Pema Pera: ah, Tara, no not lame at all
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: bye bye
Pema Pera: Bye Types!
Pema Pera: Thanks for stopping by
Pema Pera: Friedrich, if you don’t mind, let’s talk about Tara’s point for a few minutes
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: basically, i feel like i have reconditioned my default awareness, so when i am not doing something
Pema Pera: a very important point
Pema Pera: coming back to what you said

Tara then talked about her question of a purpose in life.

Tara Farmer: yes
Tara Farmer: what is my purpose?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: “And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.” - http://www.fleurdelis.com/desiderata.htm
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: (that’s a favorite prayer I know )
Tara Farmer: i have read it
Pema Pera: yes, i’ve read it too, very good grounding!
Tara Farmer: am i screwing it up? just by thinking about it too much
Pema Pera: yes, purpose
Tara Farmer: did i miss my path because i was trying to find it?
Pema Pera: of course a central question
Tara Farmer: friedrich, that makes sense
Tara Farmer: i have a lot of unanswered questions
Pema Pera: the short answer is yes
Pema Pera: but if you don’t try you won’t find it either
Pema Pera: so it is a deep paradox
Tara Farmer: i agree pema
Pema Pera: so we start by trying
Pema Pera: and then we reach a point where we drop the trying
Pema Pera: And what I am inviting you to do here is to STOP RIGHT NOW
Pema Pera: and NOT TRY
Pema Pera: at all
Pema Pera: in any way . . . . .
Pema Pera: so it is a shortcut
Pema Pera: Whether it works? . . . . we’ll see ;)
Tara Farmer: ahhh
Tara Farmer: i feel better now
Pema Pera: but playfully!!!
Pema Pera: very important
Tara Farmer: I often carry the weight of the world on my shoulders
Pema Pera: yeah, drop it
Pema Pera: stop
Pema Pera: that too
Pema Pera: really!
Pema Pera: start playing
Pema Pera: play as Being
Pema Pera: play as what you ARE
Pema Pera: forget about what you have for now, while playing, during the 9 sec
Pema Pera: you still have 891 sec/quarter to worry about what you have ;>)
Tara Farmer: i have a strong desire to just be
Pema Pera: well , you are!
Pema Pera: always have been
Pema Pera: always will
Pema Pera: ;>)
Tara Farmer: and always will BE
Tara Farmer: ha ha
Tara Farmer: LOL
Pema Pera: yeah, and without desire you can see it more
Pema Pera: without hope and without fear both
Pema Pera: way to go ;)

Soon afterwards, Jagar Farmer walked in, joining our group for the first time. The conversation turned to a comparison of different religions, and the pros and cons of structure. Soon after that I had to leave, having a RL appointment. Friedrich also had to go, and Tara and Jagar continued talking.