2014.10.16 13:00 - From Whence Confidence

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Korel :)
Korel Laloix: Osiyo Eliza.. how you been?
Eliza Madrigal: okay mostly, thanks. How is life back in the US?
Korel Laloix: Lovely.. spending the week down in Tampa with friends.
Korel Laloix: Just not as warm as I remember Florida being... even for this time of year.
Eliza Madrigal: gorgeous here in FL today!
Korel Laloix: OH.. wher eyou at?
Eliza Madrigal: Miami...so about 5 hrs from you in traffic.... were I healthier I'd try to drive up
Eliza Madrigal: :))

--BELL--

Korel Laloix: And I would look at drving down.. but leaving tomorrow evening.
Korel Laloix: Maybe my next trip.
Korel Laloix: Looking for a job back down here for sure.
Eliza Madrigal: what is next on your agenda? back to work/school?
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, nice. Due to friends here? would miss Gramma
Korel Laloix: Friends and job and weather. Yes., but grandma would be the issue.
Korel Laloix: I would love to bring her down, but pretty sure she would not want to leave the local of the grandkids.
Eliza Madrigal: probably too settled there to ask her to make a move
Eliza Madrigal: much less what it would take to restablish a farmish environment
Korel Laloix: Very true... so something to sort out for sure.
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Agatha :)
Agatha Macbeth: Yay ♥♥
Korel Laloix: But I really need to stay in my job for another year for career purposes.
Agatha Macbeth: Good day folklings
Eliza Madrigal: a year is a good amount of time to plan and consider
Korel Laloix: Heya
Korel Laloix: So that is my real plan. And I will be the full lab safety lead starting the first week in November.
Agatha Macbeth: Carrer change K?

Eliza Madrigal: maybe "how we make decisions" fits into what I've been musing on today
Eliza Madrigal: "just seeing"

Korel Laloix: No change in career, ust a change in location.
Agatha Macbeth: Glad you're back home safely Korel
Korel Laloix: I have no idea how I make some calls in my life.
Korel Laloix: Thanks...
Eliza Madrigal: that's why it may be an interesting topic
Agatha Macbeth: Must have been quite a disturbing experience in many ways I'd guess
Eliza Madrigal: there is why we think we do things, but why we really do them may be another issue
Agatha Macbeth: Brucie :)
Korel Laloix: It was a bit distrubing yes.... will have to think a while on it all.
Korel Laloix: Heya
Eliza Madrigal: yes.... like the core of why someone would go to Africa during a headline making ebola break out frenzy...
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Bruce Mowbray: Heya, everyone.
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce
Arisia Vita: greetings all
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Ari dear
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Ari!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ari
Korel Laloix: I was scheduled to go... now glad I did not.
Agatha Macbeth: So nice to see you again
Korel Laloix: If I was more convinced of the effort I would still plan on going.
Eliza Madrigal: we're talking about how we make decisions
Bruce Mowbray: wonderful topic.

Eliza Madrigal: I see... so you lost some confidence in...?
Korel Laloix: So much is political the science is be burried at the cost of lives.
Eliza Madrigal: nods...all we have are flawed systems
Eliza Madrigal: did you see corruption?
Agatha Macbeth: I see it everywhere sadly
Korel Laloix: brb
Eliza Madrigal: in political arenas or do you think it is the nature of systems?
Agatha Macbeth: Many systems yes, chiefly politics and business

Eliza Madrigal: back when we were doing you seeing/being seeing, I think it may have been a tricky exploration for some, but today I was remembering Stim's talking about "just seeing" - realized it was the same thing
Eliza Madrigal: that Being seeing was "just seeing" - seeing without self in the way as much as possible
Eliza Madrigal: then I wondered if insight can be triggered that way
Eliza Madrigal: so that's how I get to making decisions as a topic :)

Agatha Macbeth: Hm, right
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe it's a question of seeing what's there rather than what isn't
Eliza Madrigal: of not adding too much overlay?
Agatha Macbeth: Or letting the overlay add itself

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: ah :) tricky for me... I see it in my writing, often have to go back and edit down severely
Agatha Macbeth ponders an edited Liz
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: It must have a lot to do with confidence
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Bleuji
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Bleu.
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :) I'll IM you with most of the discussion so far
Bleu Oleander: hiya all

Bruce Mowbray: I feel that there are factors that override both confidence and science.
Agatha Macbeth: That was wonderful - your skirt took ages to rez :)
Bruce Mowbray: (in my own decision making, I mean.)
Eliza Madrigal: yes?
Bruce Mowbray: Hope.
Bruce Mowbray: A desire to do better.
Arisia Vita: what factors Bruce?
Arisia Vita: ah
Bruce Mowbray: optimism that human nature might change for the better.
Arisia Vita: emotions?
Bruce Mowbray: addictions, perhaps.
Eliza Madrigal: how would that affect whether to move somewhere or not, whether to trust someone?
Bruce Mowbray: Indeed it might affect those.
Bruce Mowbray: Need an example?
Eliza Madrigal: yes please

Bruce Mowbray: A close friend of over 15 years,
Bruce Mowbray: a nicotine addict,
Bruce Mowbray: spends, probably, 2,ooo USD per year on cigs,
Agatha Macbeth: 0.0
Korel Laloix: back
Bruce Mowbray: asks for a $3,000 loan...
Agatha Macbeth: WB
Bruce Mowbray: says she's desperate for cash,
Arisia Vita: wb Kori
Bruce Mowbray: What do I do?
Bruce Mowbray: He credit record is lousy...
Bruce Mowbray: which is why she's asking me instead of a bank.
Eliza Madrigal: you have a crossroads of making a rational choice v emotional one you feel?
Bruce Mowbray: no one else will help her.
Bruce Mowbray: I chose to make an emotional choice.
Bruce Mowbray: already a done deal.
Bruce Mowbray: but, that's my example for today.
Korel Laloix: Nicotine is not a truth serum.
Agatha Macbeth: I have an awful feeling I might have done the same
Bruce Mowbray: I trust her.
Eliza Madrigal: in an emotional choice, there are likely a lot of things in the mix too? past experience, etc. or was this just a gut instinct?
Eliza Madrigal: whether one has the means factors as well
Korel Laloix: Just remember how hard it was for me quit.

Bruce Mowbray: I'm presenting that example as merely an example of decision-making, not for psycho-analysis.
Bleu Oleander: how close a friend and was this the first time she asked?
Eliza Madrigal: for me it adds to the general question... the hidden background... more rhetorical
Bruce Mowbray: A very close friend, and no, she has asked before and I have given her money... to get the electricity turned back on, for example.
Bleu Oleander: ok so history of good relationship then?
Bruce Mowbray: I do not know how to make such a decision without the emotions playing some important role -- more than the science, actually.
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Bleu Oleander: emotions play a role in everything
Bleu Oleander: even science!
Bruce Mowbray: :) for sure.

Eliza Madrigal: I can see the two hands, rational and emotional, but I also think insight can emerge as something different than either/or
Bruce Mowbray: (and Congressional hearings, too.)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: or someone may simply want to because they want to
Bruce Mowbray: Does "insight" help you make your decisions, Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: no overlay :)
Eliza Madrigal: not often enough Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: me neither.

Eliza Madrigal: that's why I am wondering today, about triggering it
Bruce Mowbray: Just wanted to ask.
Eliza Madrigal: as with things like you seeing/Being seeing
Eliza Madrigal: that's an intentional call upon intuitive faculties in a way
Bruce Mowbray ponders that old chestnut: "The heart has reason that the head knows not of."
Bruce Mowbray: (or something like that).

Eliza Madrigal: or, also.... this comes to mind: a theme session with Eos about "Be decisive, know what is, see clearly"

Eos Amaterasu: These three phrases are also described as "the three types of confidence"
Eos Amaterasu: What's puzzled me is that in a way they seem backwards
Eos Amaterasu: You would think that first you can see clearly
Eliza Madrigal: yes, right
Eos Amaterasu: then you can see what is, how things are
Eos Amaterasu: and then you can make decisions based on that.
Eos Amaterasu: However, this can also describe a kind of PaB approach.
Eos Amaterasu: Which is to drop everything, and let everything be, and start with where you are 
Eos Amaterasu: Not even start, since that implies going somewhere, but just be
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eos Amaterasu: So you have sense of appreciation, or presence
(https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2010/03/2010.03.30_19%3a00_-_Be_Decisive_Know_What_Is_See_Clearly )

Bruce Mowbray: slow uptake,,,
Eliza Madrigal: ah yes, heart reasons
Bruce Mowbray: SL reversed what I typed.
Bruce Mowbray: np, you all caught it.
Agatha Macbeth: Laggy

Bruce Mowbray: TRUST is an enormous portion of "insight."
Bleu Oleander: what do you mean by insight?

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Whom do you mean by "you," Bleu?
Eliza Madrigal: knowing, in a new arena
Bleu Oleander: I think of insight as a feeling or emotion or thought that helps you to know something more clearly, was wondering if that's what you meant
Eliza Madrigal: there is knowing like the knowing one has about a game they've played a lot if playing against an opponent who hasn't, but then when in a context one hasn't encountered before, something unique has to come up in the moment... there is a drawing upon
Bruce Mowbray sits on hands and waits for "you" to be identified: Eliza? Eos? Moi?
Eliza Madrigal: ah I see... I wouldn't call it a feeling but some could and that'd be true

Bleu Oleander: so when you say trust as a portion of insight, you mean trust yourself?
Agatha Macbeth: Hola Xira <3
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Xiri :))
Bleu Oleander: hiya Xiri :)
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Xir-Ji!
Agatha Macbeth: And hello Zon
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Agatha, Eliza, Bleu, Bruce, Ari :)
Bleu Oleander: hiya Zon :)
Bruce Mowbray: Herya, Zon-ji!
Eliza Madrigal: I think Being Seeing is a good thing to point to here, because one is (in some way, maybe only mentally) dropping the I as the center from where a decision would come
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zon, wb
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Korel and Zon :)
Korel Laloix: Osiyo

Eliza Madrigal: what about this question.... do you all have methods or mechanisms to 'get to' an insightful place... a place to act confidently from?
Bruce Mowbray: When tangibles are involved, though, Being/Seeing returns to "I" -- who ultimately bears the responsibility for th decision.
Eliza Madrigal: tricks? :)
Bruce Mowbray: I have such methods, yes... and over the years I have learned to trust them....
Arisia Vita: welcome Be
Bruce Mowbray: which is why I mentioned "trust" being an important component of intuition, earlier.
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Be :)

Korel Laloix smiles.. I pretty much act confidently even if I am not sure of what I am doing.
Eliza Madrigal smiles at Kori
Bleu Oleander: depends on the context
Bruce Mowbray: away from keyboard for a sec....
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Be, long time no see
Korel Laloix: I just prefer to rush in if I am ignorant and learn as I push.
Eliza Madrigal: yes it has been quite a while, welcome back
Eliza Madrigal: that seems a confidence that you can recover from the decision you make at a later time if necessary
Eliza Madrigal: ?
 

Dallas and Concerns... 

Eliza Madrigal: Be, we're talking about insight, confidence, and how we make decisions
Be Ewing: well ... what do we do here in Dallas?
Be Ewing: I haven't a clue as to topic of this conversation
Be Ewing: although Bruce and Ari are my friends
Arisia Vita: :)
Bruce Mowbray: [back]
Eliza Madrigal: "what to do, when you don't know have a clue" could be a title
Arisia Vita: wb Bruce
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Bruce Mowbray reads back....
Be Ewing: worst thing ... from my personal perspective ... is to declare Dallas County a "Disaster Area"
Be Ewing: yet County Health Director is doing this to get financial reimbursement
Eliza Madrigal: Be, I remember you from a long time ago (relative to SL) but just to make sure that it was here, we record and post these sessions to a public wiki at playasbeing.org. Is it ok to include your comments?
Be Ewing: I understand
Eliza Madrigal: thanks
Be Ewing: Ames got me here
Eliza Madrigal: that must be a terribly hard decision to make, re declaring some place a disaster
Be Ewing: meaning not exactly at this moment in time
Agatha Macbeth wonders who Ames is
Bruce Mowbray: Having lived in Dallas for four years as an undergraduate student at SMU, I tend to suspect major decisions coming out of that area -- grossly unfair of me, I know!
Be Ewing: Advanced Research division of NASA
Eliza Madrigal: especially if resources are involved, because politically sometimes it is better to have what you need before lots of other places need it too
Bruce Mowbray: Wouldn't being declared a "Disaster Area' seriously affect the economics of that region?
Be Ewing: true
Bruce Mowbray: nods.
Bruce Mowbray: but maybe better safe than sorry, alas.

Be Ewing: need to rely on immune systems of human beings
Be Ewing: many people apparently have forgotten this
Eliza Madrigal: lots of which are very compromised
Be Ewing: true
Bruce Mowbray ponders how immune systems might be tied somehow to insight systems.
Eliza Madrigal: that's an interesting link Bruce
Eliza Madrigal: if thinking of Maslow, there have to be certain needs met before higher faculties can be cultivated...
Be Ewing: I can't link to anyone right now
Be Ewing: think virus

--BELL--

Be Ewing: I am not doing that
Bleu Oleander: interesting link here: http://nyti.ms/ZwwIMR
Be Ewing: I am not doing that either
Be Ewing: best analogy I can come up with
Be Ewing: is computer viruses are similar to First Life viruses
Be Ewing: I am not going to risk any of my friends
Be Ewing: Ari can explain

Eliza Madrigal: (but i wonder if maslow is right re insight, considering creatives who have found their gifts during times of illness or trauma - worlds opening up alongside)
Be Ewing: Who is Maslow?
Eliza Madrigal: "hierarchy of needs" in psychology... suggested that in order to have access to higher needs, lower needs must be met, ie health and shelter, etc
Bruce Mowbray: psychologist -- Hierarchy of Needs.
Be Ewing: true
Bruce Mowbray: (snap).
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Be Ewing: thank you for refreshing my memory
Bleu Oleander: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%...archy_of_needs

Be Ewing: so ... I am assuming ... rightfully or wrongfully ... each of you has a First LIfe presence
Eliza Madrigal: ty
Be Ewing: and right now ... I to protect my friends ... am not going to do any link here
Bruce Mowbray: In today's Congressional hearings, I noticed that some were already blaming Obama for this. . . GIVE ME A BREAK! He's too busy causing hurricanes to cause a simple outbreak of Ebola.
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, I see Be, okay
Be Ewing: not really
Be Ewing: first time I had to encounter this was yesterday
Be Ewing: MAJOR DATABASE SCREWUP ... SNAFU

Bruce Mowbray: I have a typist, weird as he may be....(I don't often claim him, of course....)
Eliza Madrigal: people vote with the methods we were talking about earlier... emotional v rational
Be Ewing: not here
Be Ewing: birthdates not jiving
Eliza Madrigal: I'm not sure I'll vote in the next elections
Bleu Oleander: why not?
Be Ewing: well in NJ they vote the dead
Eliza Madrigal: which is really sad, because I've been pretty active
Eliza Madrigal: it just feels the same on both sides , like there isn't a real choice
Eliza Madrigal: of course, something may change my mind
Bruce Mowbray: (learned to day that half of Americans don't even know that there IS a midterm election coming in three weeks.)
Be Ewing: true
Eliza Madrigal: but a politically active person not voting is a statement too
Bleu Oleander: I think we all can help affect change, even if a very small amount ... it adds up

Be Ewing: well we here in Dallas most focused on Ebola
Bruce Mowbray: and well you should be, Be.
Be Ewing: and I am not a victim of it
Be Ewing: I am a Survivor

Eliza Madrigal: the content of the gov. debate here last night was buried because all of the news was about an argument over a fan - whether to allow it on stage or not (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/10/15/charlie-crist-rick-scott-and-a-fan-in-one-of-the-most-bizarre-debate-moments-ever-video/ )
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Be Ewing: ?
Bleu Oleander: media is clueless
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe it hadn't paid to get in
Eliza Madrigal: crist v scott in FL
Be Ewing: ok ... where are we transmitting to?
Bruce Mowbray wonders why the same folks who complain most about BIG GOVERNMENT are the one who complain when the FEDS aren't moving in to solve their problems.
Eliza Madrigal: pretty funny coverage actually... evidently this fan has a history of psyching opponents out

Be Ewing: FL = Frito-Lay
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Be Ewing: FL = First Life
Be Ewing: ?
Eliza Madrigal: Florida
Be Ewing: thank you Eliza

Bleu Oleander: its always a choice ... you may not like either choice but if one digs a little deeper, perhaps one can choose
Bruce Mowbray: Democracy is based on such choices, of course.
Be Ewing: Bruce -- you always seem to be so politically correct
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....
Be Ewing: :)
Bleu Oleander: a lot of the work needs to be done before the elections though ... folks need to take an interest in their communities, governments etc.
Agatha Macbeth: Careful Brucie
Be Ewing: somehow I think/feel you are still living
Eliza Madrigal: I've felt this... and have always stepped up with "the knowledge I have" but am right now not sure
Eliza Madrigal: have wonderful photos of my daughter shaking hands with obama
Eliza Madrigal: and the other in the midst of campaign events
Bruce Mowbray: Wonderful!
Bruce Mowbray recalls meeting Jimmy Carter personally in 1976.
Eliza Madrigal: yet... am very sorrowful about continuing some policies and not quite confident that my choice made a big diff in the world other than symbolically
Eliza Madrigal: maybe that's enough

Bleu Oleander: much of the elections is decided in the primaries and redrawing district lines
Korel Laloix: I was minus 10 then.
Be Ewing: ok
Agatha Macbeth: You warmed up since K
Be Ewing needs to leave now :)
Bleu Oleander: if everyone felt their choice didn't matter no one would vote
Eliza Madrigal: well that's true, Bleu
Be Ewing: needs intentional
Agatha Macbeth: Adios
Korel Laloix: Ciao
Eliza Madrigal: Okay Be, be safe and healthy
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Bleu, it's a wonder that any of us have any faith left in the democratic system... what with all the money and jerrymandering going into it.
Bleu Oleander: ciao
Be Ewing: Take care and miles of smiles :)
Xirana Oximoxi: bye Be

--BELL--

Zon Kwan: waves
Bruce Mowbray: Be safe, dear Kori.
Be Ewing: Ciao -- Adios ... So-Long ETC ETC ETC
Arisia Vita: alas, I too must fly, it was great being with you all
Arisia Vita: hope to see you again soon
Bleu Oleander: bye Ari
Eliza Madrigal: ntsy Ari, waves
Agatha Macbeth: Fly well Ari
Arisia Vita: will do
Xirana Oximoxi: bye Ari, see you soon! :)
Eliza Madrigal: in the midterm elections there are actually smaller issues well worth showing up for, although sometimse phrased so trickily
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Ari. . . and whomever else I missed.
Bleu Oleander: yes, have to figure out the wording for sure!
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh! Kori is still here!
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes I find myself in line with people trying to figure out what the questions really mean
Bleu Oleander: takes effort these days!
Agatha Macbeth: The question to the answer which is 42
Eliza Madrigal: guess that's pretty fun... do enjoy that process
Bruce Mowbray: ahhh, JEOPARDY mode.
Eliza Madrigal: but I would like to see more alternatives
Agatha Macbeth: Double jeapordy?
Eliza Madrigal: which will never happen if we keep supporting the same two parties so strongly...
Agatha Macbeth: (great spelling there)
Bleu Oleander: we do have some responsibility to educate ourselves on the issues :)
Bruce Mowbray: asking the question when given the answer.
Agatha Macbeth: Was that Barbara Stanwyck?
Eliza Madrigal: yes... but (maybe not everywhere but surely here) there are phrases designed to look like a no vote would accomplish what a yes would, etc

Bruce Mowbray: What is, "What is the meaning of the universe and everything?"
Be Ewing: ?
Eliza Madrigal: hehe Bruce
Eliza Madrigal: you forgot life
Agatha Macbeth: Mice?
Bruce Mowbray: obh yes, LIFE!
Bleu Oleander: exactly Eliza ... takes work to unscramble it
Be Ewing: excuse me ... I stepped away from my screen for a few moments
Bleu Oleander: here too!
Agatha Macbeth: Fatal to do that here Be
Be Ewing: current topic of conversation is?
Bruce Mowbray: decision-making.
Eliza Madrigal: I think we're still on decisions but that tree has a lot of brances
Be Ewing: I do it intuitively

Eliza Madrigal: I need to go, though....
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, good Eliza!
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, Be, that's exactly what we started off with....
Be Ewing: :)
Bleu Oleander: one can educate one's intuition though
Eliza Madrigal: whether we can trigger intuition or insight
Xirana Oximoxi: I will aslo go....have a good day/evening averyone and see you soon! :)
Korel Laloix: I think it interesting how people feel entitled to make decisions for you.
Bleu Oleander: bye Xiri

Eliza Madrigal: :) Please feel free to stay and continue
Be Ewing: apparently I was supposed to be after all
Agatha Macbeth: Hasta porno Xira
Eliza Madrigal: wishing you all well , bye Xiri
Eliza Madrigal: and everyone :)
Bruce Mowbray: The best way to educate one's intuition is to gain all the experience you can.
Korel Laloix: ciao
Eliza Madrigal: ((((happy thursday)))) "I never quite got the hang of thursdays..."
Bleu Oleander: ntsy bye all
Agatha Macbeth: Yes Brucie, that certainly helps
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, all you good people.
Agatha Macbeth: BFN