2015.04.30 13:00 - In Praise of Randomness and Suspension

The Guardian for this meeting was Shinju.

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Shin.
ShinjuJin Resident waves hello :)
ShinjuJin Resident: Nice to see you. All going well this week?
Bruce Mowbray: Whew! It feels good to sit down. This has been a BUSY day!
ShinjuJin Resident: yes?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, wonderfully well, thank you.
Bruce Mowbray: and for you?
ShinjuJin Resident: things are good generally, but friends have been having significant losses, so feel divided
Bruce Mowbray: oh, I'm sorry. The same thing is happening - in a way - in my family too.
ShinjuJin Resident: sorry to hear that
Bruce Mowbray: I think you already know about my sister-in-law - who was doing trauma workshops in Kathmandu two years ago this week...
Bruce Mowbray: she is back in San Diego, now, but she still has not been able to contact her friends and Nepal - after five days.
Bruce Mowbray: so I'm a bit distressed for her.
ShinjuJin Resident: how difficult :(
Bruce Mowbray: yes, I agree. She emailed me yesterday (her birthday, actually) to say that she was keeping busy with loved ones doing things she enjoys.
Bruce Mowbray: and I felt a lot of relief just knowing that.
ShinjuJin Resident: people are astounding

Bruce Mowbray: yes. Within hours of the quake itself, Google had put up a "person-finder" -- so we've been using that to try to find her friends.
ShinjuJin Resident: sometimes all one can do is not turn away
ShinjuJin Resident: yes, excellent
Bruce Mowbray: very very important not to turn away.
ShinjuJin Resident: is Twitter a good resource for that also?
ShinjuJin Resident: like after tsunami
Bruce Mowbray: yes, I did a little research using Twitter....
Bruce Mowbray: but there were so many things coming and going besides people searches,
Bruce Mowbray: I just went back to Google's Finder.
ShinjuJin Resident nods
ShinjuJin Resident: twitter has been used in rescues and things, but when I consider, it makes more sense to lean on google perhaps
ShinjuJin Resident: with map capabilities
ShinjuJin Resident: am sure many overlaps
Bruce Mowbray: One of the problems that she and I are having is that Nepalese names are rather difficult for English-speaking people., . . so unless she actually got there first and last names in writing, which she usually did not, we can't search for them.

ShinjuJin Resident: Hi Pinky!
Pinky Kira: hiya!
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Pinky.
ShinjuJin Resident: oh Bruce, hadn't thought of that :(
Bruce Mowbray: Yes.....
Bruce Mowbray: How are you today, Pinky?
ShinjuJin Resident: welcome to PlayasBeing Pinky :) Have you visited us before? I know we've met in builders group...
Pinky Kira: yes I have :)
ShinjuJin Resident: great :)
ShinjuJin Resident smiles
Pinky Kira: :)
ShinjuJin Resident: we were talking a little about the sorrowful situation in Nepal
Pinky Kira: oh yes :(

Bruce Mowbray: One of the many things I did today was to upgrade my Internet connection to a speed twice as fast as what I had previously....
ShinjuJin Resident: about various means being used for finding people and rescues
Bruce Mowbray: and this is my first adventure in Second Life using that new bandwidth...
Bruce Mowbray: it's quite amazing.
ShinjuJin Resident: Great, Bruce!
Bruce Mowbray: Yes!
Bruce Mowbray: I can actually watch streaming videos without a lot of buffering, now.
Pinky Kira: quite a difference?
ShinjuJin Resident: When the internet is slow or the computer is glitchy, I hardly can enjoy SL, so I know it is a huge change
Bruce Mowbray: well I was getting 2 MB per second down -- and now I'm getting 5 MB per second down. so that's quite an improvement.
ShinjuJin Resident: congrats :)
Pinky Kira: i'm used to using shadows all the time now :)
Pinky Kira: looks "fake" without it lol
Bruce Mowbray: :) ty.
ShinjuJin Resident: I'd love to do that eventually. I know photos look amazing with shadows
Bruce Mowbray: when I first got my new computer about three years ago, I immediately did a video card upgrade on it....
Bruce Mowbray: and that helped enormously too.
ShinjuJin Resident: :)
Pinky Kira: :)

Bruce Mowbray: I think half of our visual perception - at least our depth perception - may be due to shadows,
Bruce Mowbray: and I think Caravaggio and Rembrandt knew this . .
Pinky Kira: yes helps with perspective and depth for sure
Bruce Mowbray: and that's why they used chiaroscuro so often in their paintings.
Pinky Kira: yes!
Bruce Mowbray: Vermeer, too.
Bruce Mowbray sits on hands and let others talk for a change.
ShinjuJin Resident: :) not at all Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: :) You are too kind, Shin-ji.
ShinjuJin Resident: a little emotionally tired and perhaps a slight bit more quiet due to that, but your pointers evoke all kinds of pretty thought flashes
Bruce Mowbray: ty. drop approaching.

--BELL--

ShinjuJin Resident: aren't drops random now?
Bruce Mowbray: apparently, they are!
Pinky Kira: I think of power drops when you say that :)
ShinjuJin Resident: wasn't sure what I thought of that at first but I'm enjoying it
ShinjuJin Resident: Hello Elan :)
Pinky Kira: the randomness?
ShinjuJin Resident: yes
Pinky Kira: hi Elan
ShinjuJin Resident: very much
ElanVitalo Resident: Hello, good people!
Pinky Kira: nice I think
ShinjuJin Resident: the effect is even nicer than the idea

Pinky Kira: has anyone seen Ex Machina yet?
ShinjuJin Resident: not yet, did you go?
Pinky Kira: Elan reminded me of it
Pinky Kira: yes
ShinjuJin Resident: verdict?
Pinky Kira: very good
ElanVitalo Resident: I tried to find a torrent for it, but was not successful...
Pinky Kira: Ava is amazing
ElanVitalo Resident: I really do want to see it, though.
ShinjuJin Resident: am looking forward to it
Bruce Mowbray: so do I, Elan.
Pinky Kira: we had a salon on it already :)

Bruce Mowbray: Was it anything like "Her"? -- I mean except for the fact that they both featured software, robotics, etc..
Pinky Kira: no not really
ShinjuJin Resident: it looks a little more thriller-y
ElanVitalo Resident: ahhh....
Pinky Kira: but suspension of belief issues :)
Pinky Kira: lots to talk about
Bruce Mowbray: great!
ShinjuJin Resident: I enjoy movies that flip perspective a lot and make you doubt yourself
Pinky Kira: alternatives to Turing test, gender and consciousness, ethics etc.
ShinjuJin Resident: maybe that's why my life is like it is, lol
ElanVitalo Resident: I think science fiction is one of my favorite movie genres, actually.
ElanVitalo Resident: especially about artificial intelligence.
ElanVitalo Resident listens.

Bruce Mowbray: Please tell us more about it, if you wish to, Pinky.
Pinky Kira: interesting TED talk by Nick Bostrom
Pinky Kira: i'll see if I have a link
Bruce Mowbray: ahhh. Will look for that and give us a link to it. brb.
ElanVitalo Resident: https://www.ted.com/talks/nick_bostr...ms?language=en
ShinjuJin Resident: thanks Elan
Bruce Mowbray: TY, Elan. I almost forgot how fast your CPU is.
Pinky Kira: http://www.ted.com/talks/nick_bostro...re?language=en
Bruce Mowbray: [makes note to watch it later.]
ShinjuJin Resident: great, two talks
Pinky Kira: yes!
Bruce Mowbray: correction: to watch THEM later.
Pinky Kira: :)

Bruce Mowbray: Is this the author of SUPER INTELLIGENCE?
Bruce Mowbray: I read that book through my Kindle even before it came out in hard copy.
Bruce Mowbray: YES! I see now that he is the author of the book.
Bruce Mowbray: a superbly well documented book, I might add.
Pinky Kira: yes I read that
Bruce Mowbray: nods -- in fact, I think it was you who recommended it to ME.
Bruce Mowbray: you in another form, as it were.
Pinky Kira: hehe probably
Pinky Kira: I get my best books from Bleu :)
Bruce Mowbray: ( the word "salon" gave you away) ha ha.
ShinjuJin Resident: :)
Pinky Kira: I think I outed myself a while ago lol
ShinjuJin Resident: for those with good memories :))

Bruce Mowbray: I also read another book that Bleu suggested: Is God a Mathematician?
Pinky Kira: ah yes ... good one
ShinjuJin Resident: and is she?
Bruce Mowbray: and we mentioned that book in my session on Saturday - as we were discussing synchronicity.
Pinky Kira: did you read the Joy of X too?
Bruce Mowbray: nope, not yet.
Pinky Kira: good as well
Bruce Mowbray: excellent.... I will look into it and thanks for the suggestion.
Pinky Kira: btw just reading an advance copy of "a beautiful question" ... wonderful book so far!
Pinky Kira: comes out in july
ShinjuJin Resident: about?
Pinky Kira: subtitle is finding nature's deep design
Qt Core: Hi all!
Pinky Kira: hi Qt
Qt Core: (ops)
Bruce Mowbray: Him Qt!
ShinjuJin Resident: Hi Qt :)

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Hi..
ElanVitalo Resident: Heya, qt.
ShinjuJin Resident: Qt have you seen ex machina?
ShinjuJin Resident: AI related film
Qt Core: i don't think as it does not remind me anything (beside the deus ex machina saying)
Pinky Kira: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/26/op...dren.html?_r=0
Pinky Kira: interesting piece about the movie
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I think that's where the movie's title came from . . . the Latin expression.
ShinjuJin Resident: Always read her.. guess I'm behind :)
Pinky Kira: an interesting phrase "situated knowledge" from the conversation about the movie
ShinjuJin Resident: please say more?
Qt Core: saving for later (the both the movie and the article)
Bruce Mowbray: yes, , please do.
Pinky Kira: "who" programs AI and how they come from a unique situated experience and knowledge ... pass on through AI
Pinky Kira: so gender was interesting to think about
Pinky Kira: movie was a male designing a female
Pinky Kira: so socialization of AI also interesting to think about
ShinjuJin Resident: getting even more interested... may find myself in a theater tonight
Bruce Mowbray nods.

Pinky Kira: is gender a prerequisite for consciousness?
ShinjuJin Resident: a film that grapples well with that question is something I want to engage with
Pinky Kira: there were many interesting things to talk about
ShinjuJin Resident: but there seem to be more openly diverse gender categories in our time
Pinky Kira: for sure
ElanVitalo Resident nods -- "Her" was a bit similar in that the operating system was female.
Pinky Kira: yes
Qt Core: on a first glance it seems not, Pinky,. but then one may be born from the process of getting the other... or vice versa
ShinjuJin Resident: she sort of escaped her early programming though, or transcended?
Pinky Kira: this was interesting in that her gender and sexuality was a key part of the turing test
ShinjuJin Resident: hm, my imagination takes me to the question of female body/male mind?
Bruce Mowbray: "Her" (Samantha) certainly did transcend her original program, yes.
Pinky Kira: exactly Shin :)

ShinjuJin Resident: :) seems good material for SL explorers
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Pinky Kira: indeed
Bruce Mowbray agrees.
Pinky Kira: SLers should relate :)
Qt Core: where we can get to even more bizarre combinations...
ShinjuJin Resident: seems so
Bruce Mowbray: Yikes!
ElanVitalo Resident: Yikes!
Bruce Mowbray: copycat!

Pinky Kira: well we've met females with male minds in sl and vice versa :)
ShinjuJin Resident: I've always been fascinated that we can see the ways we use imagination with regard to role play etc. - differences between playing with the idea of femaleness or bringing out femaleness
ShinjuJin Resident: yes
ShinjuJin Resident: so we can 'be' a furry squirrel, but that is still based on imagination of what squirrel is
ShinjuJin Resident: and seems like
ShinjuJin Resident: and projects
Bruce Mowbray nods emphatically.
Pinky Kira: yes
Pinky Kira: anyway, I recommend it
ShinjuJin Resident: I've never been able to sufficiently shed my enjoyment of being female in order to empty enough to let enough maleness come forward in SL
ShinjuJin Resident: if that makes sense

ElanVitalo Resident: "My sexual preference is what I show up FOR" -- My gender identity is what I show up AS.
Pinky Kira: makes sense :)
ShinjuJin Resident: interesting statement
ElanVitalo Resident: Tht might even mean showing up as a woman in a male body.
ShinjuJin Resident: nice
ElanVitalo Resident: I would still show up AS a woman.. in spite of my bodily gender.
ShinjuJin Resident: I see, great distinction
ElanVitalo Resident: But, as you can most likely observe, I've shown up as a male today
Pinky Kira: but are you a female mind? :)
ElanVitalo Resident: Hmmmm. . . not sure whether my software has a gender, actually -- or even a preference for one.
Pinky Kira: how does your mindset change when you are Elan?
ElanVitalo Resident: MY mindset? as opposed to whose?
Pinky Kira: (speaking to Elan's typist)
ElanVitalo Resident: oh HIM!
Pinky Kira: hehe
ElanVitalo Resident: I will pass along the question.

--BELL--

Pinky Kira: lol
ElanVitalo Resident: Brucie he and I share the same typist...
Pinky Kira: what a mind your typist must have! hehe
ElanVitalo Resident: and our typist shares several identities with us....
Bruce Mowbray urges Elan not to give away all our 'secrets.'
ShinjuJin Resident grins
ElanVitalo Resident: kk, sry.
Pinky Kira: keep talking Elan lol
ShinjuJin Resident: I just asked my son to go see the film and he said "Well I don't trust your friends since they recommended Snowpiercer" hahah

ElanVitalo Resident: I find myself to be far less emotional than Bruce.
Bruce Mowbray: Well, thanks a lot!
ShinjuJin Resident: ha ha ha
Pinky Kira: :)
ElanVitalo Resident: perhaps I should've said less reactive than Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: This is .... ELEPHANTASTIC !!
Bruce Mowbray: _____
Bruce Mowbray: / 0 \____
Bruce Mowbray: / _ \__/ \
Bruce Mowbray: / / \ ____ I \
Bruce Mowbray: /_/ I I I I
Bruce Mowbray: I__I I__I
Bruce Mowbray: how's that for reactive?
ShinjuJin Resident: space around emotions?
Pinky Kira: you guys are funny!

ShinjuJin Resident: Hi Curious!
Pinky Kira: hi Curious :)
ElanVitalo Resident: Curious!
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: hello peeps
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Curious.
Bruce Mowbray: GTSYA.
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: u2
ShinjuJin Resident: we've been talking about ex machina, AI and gender, etc
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: aa,the new movie
ShinjuJin Resident: yes
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: cool,hope it will be good
Pinky Kira: it is :)
ShinjuJin Resident: only Pinky has seen it but the ideas around it stand on their own
ElanVitalo Resident: Pinky has already attended a solon to discuss the movie.

Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: interstellar was not so good
Pinky Kira: was awful I thought
ElanVitalo Resident: I felt the same way about INTERSTELLAR, Curious.... I wanted more depth, less science fiction.
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: only a couple of really cool effects
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: yes
ElanVitalo Resident nods, agrees.
ShinjuJin Resident: I was on board with a lot of it and then there were great wrongs committed
Pinky Kira: brb
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: for me it was interesting that one with Tom Cruise,something about tommorow...
ElanVitalo Resident: Minority Report?
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: similar to Groundhog day
ShinjuJin Resident: ah with the repeating?
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: yes
ShinjuJin Resident: yes, liked that too... as a kind of "ride" movie
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: i didnt expect much from it,but at the end was quite good movie
ShinjuJin Resident: similar impression

ElanVitalo Resident: Cruise was also good in Vanilla Sky -- also science fiction-y.
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: after that Elysium disaster,omg
ShinjuJin Resident escaped both of those
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: i heard that Chapie is very bad
Bruce Mowbray: one movie I really enjoyed was The Adjustment Bureau.
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: good movie,yes
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: from Dick
ElanVitalo Resident agrees.
ElanVitalo Resident: Yes, Philip Dick.

Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: what is your best from genre
ShinjuJin Resident: best sci fi?
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: yep
ElanVitalo Resident: I am afraid I don't understand your question?
ElanVitalo Resident: okay.
ShinjuJin Resident: goodness.... hm
ElanVitalo Resident: maybe 2001....
ShinjuJin Resident: hard to live up to that, also because one remembers the wonder of age first watching
Bruce Mowbray: I've enjoyed several versions of The Time Machine.
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: my all time is Blade runner
ElanVitalo Resident nods.
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: with that crazy music from _Vangelis
ShinjuJin Resident: ah, Wol loves that
ElanVitalo Resident: also an excellent movie.
ShinjuJin Resident: I still haven't seen it but she has been talking about it all these years :)
ElanVitalo Resident: (also about androids).
Pinky Kira: never saw that ... makes a note :)
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: yes,i was with wol on Blade runner sim,have you visited it?
ShinjuJin Resident: not at all, never heard of
ShinjuJin Resident: perhaps Pinky and I can make that homework
Pinky Kira: me either
ShinjuJin Resident: and then go
ShinjuJin Resident: :)
Pinky Kira: hehe
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: will pass you the link,its great
Pinky Kira: ty!
ShinjuJin Resident: thanks
Bruce Mowbray: Please, pass me one too, Curious.
ElanVitalo Resident: (I will get my LM from Brucie.
ElanVitalo Resident: )
Bruce Mowbray: (if you're lucky.)
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: i dont have it,will be back in sec

Bruce Mowbray: need to be a-scraping now. THANKS, everyone.
ShinjuJin Resident: Im sorry to leave on the dot today too, but guests arrived while here
Pinky Kira: bye Bruce
ShinjuJin Resident: bye to curious and bruce :)
Pinky Kira: yes me too
ShinjuJin Resident: and everyone
Qt Core: bye Bruce
Pinky Kira: bfn
ShinjuJin Resident: bfn
ShinjuJin Resident: sorry to be off so quickly curious, see you again and thanks
ElanVitalo Resident: Bye, Shin. Bye, Pinky.
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: ok,bye
Pinky Kira: bye bye
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: wheres Bruce?
ElanVitalo Resident: Brucie is cooking.
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: aha
ElanVitalo Resident: or "scraping up din din," as he puts it.
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: yes )

--BELL--

ElanVitalo Resident: that always reminds me of roadkill... YUK!
ElanVitalo Resident: so were you able to find the LM, Curious?
ElanVitalo Resident: Ahh There it is! THANKS.
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: its hard to make today a good sf
ElanVitalo Resident: Brucie is now yelling at me to come in and help with dinner . . so I guess I have to go too.
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: bon apettite
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: crashy
Qt Core: just to say hi, i just crashed
Qt Core: bye then
Mediterraneanmonkseal Resident: ok,see ya