2015.11.19 13:00 - Dream Session: Fermi Paradox

The Guardian for this meeting was Mickorod Renard. Eliza posted this session. :)

Mickorod Renard: hi Cat
Mickorod Renard: How are you?
Catrinamonblue Resident: mmmm rl I'm fine but can't seem to sit well lol :)
Mickorod Renard: try another seat
Mickorod Renard: I did..
Mickorod Renard: Hi Eliza
Catrinamonblue Resident: oh better :) ty

Eliza Madrigal: Aloha friends
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Eliza :)
Mickorod Renard: aAloha..are you on hols?
Mickorod Renard: in hawaai?
Eliza Madrigal: would that were true
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: nope... hot n humid Miami
Mickorod Renard: Hi QT
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Qt :)
Qt Core: Hi all!
Mickorod Renard: hey, Maiami
Eliza Madrigal: Hiya Qt
Mickorod Renard: Miami..thats like being on hols all the time

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: um, yeah sure :)
Mickorod Renard: :)
Eliza Madrigal: party party party
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: How is everyone doing?
Mickorod Renard: other than the tropical storms..do you get cold weather Eliza?
Mickorod Renard: I am good ta..busy with kids

Qt Core: do you know that Miami in italian can be read as "Mi ami" and is the affirmative, inquisitive and imperative for of "you love me" ? ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: oooooh, I like that, Qt
Mickorod Renard: wow..nice QT
Eliza Madrigal: cold weather sometimes.... 3 days here and there
Mickorod Renard: nice
Catrinamonblue Resident: it's a beautiful 13C here today :)
Mickorod Renard: its the other way around here
Eliza Madrigal: Now I can hear that subtext when ever I say where I'm from
Qt Core: we are finally approaching winter, we had 20C temps until a few days ago
Eliza Madrigal: I envy you guys sincerely, although I know winters can be long
Mickorod Renard: its been quite warm here ..unusually so..
Qt Core: now at low 10 and going down in next days
Catrinamonblue Resident: here too Mick, friend posted pic from this day last year with several cm of snow
Eliza Madrigal: yes by this time last year we had a few cool days
Mickorod Renard: wow..yes, it makes one wonder re global warming but then another year follows and its cold again
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods

Eliza Madrigal: Have dreams been exciting?
Eliza Madrigal: sorry to be missing sporadically
Mickorod Renard: well..we have been doing a few
Mickorod Renard: not so many from me
Eliza Madrigal: too busy to dream?
Mickorod Renard: for some reason,,well I think its my disturbed lifestyle..i havnt managed many
Catrinamonblue Resident: I keep forgetting to write my down...
Eliza Madrigal: do you remember images or snippets Cat?
Mickorod Renard: I have one with me now
Catrinamonblue Resident: vivid snippets but need to write them down or they slip away
Eliza Madrigal: slippery snippets
Mickorod Renard: he he
Eliza Madrigal: ^.^

Qt Core: i had one this past weekend that i had to write down (second time ever i did that)
Mickorod Renard: yes?
Eliza Madrigal: yay, so we have two dreams today?
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Mickorod Renard: yipeee
Eliza Madrigal: Qt's last one was a doozy
Mickorod Renard: go for it QT
Eliza Madrigal paddles feet lightly in the water
Eliza Madrigal: ty Qt, reading
Mickorod Renard: thanks QT
Catrinamonblue Resident: ty :)
Eliza Madrigal: ears perk at alien mention....
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Qt Core: i hope the reference to the attacks in Paris will not disturb
Eliza Madrigal: attacks in Paris are disturbing, but not your mention of them :)
Qt Core: nods

[Dream text to be added soon]

Eliza Madrigal: this is a beautiful dream Qt
Mickorod Renard: very nice dream QT
Eliza Madrigal: do you think this is one way you are processing refugee crisis?
Mickorod Renard: it sort of reminded me ..for no reason in mind..of the one you told some time back re the car accident though
Catrinamonblue Resident: wow Qt :)
Qt Core: i don't think, Eliza, but that would not means that it could not be ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: it seems an open hearted response you had, although such sadness too
Mickorod Renard: Qt, do you know the reason why you wanted to tell the aliens the fermi stuff?

--BELL--

Qt Core: to explain that i was happy about meeting them, not sad
Eliza Madrigal nods...
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Mickorod Renard: or just the high expectation of likely meeting aliens?
Qt Core: today i noticed that uo to my entering in the building it was dream in 3dt person after that in 1st
Eliza Madrigal: somehow I got an anxious feeling too. Was your reaction common, iow were others welcoming and happy?
Qt Core: (i more often dream in 3rd person but i know i'm the main character ;-) )
Mickorod Renard: ah yes, thats interesting,,in my dream I also seemed lost between characters...the one I havnt told yet
Eliza Madrigal: hmm
Qt Core: no, the others were just running up and down the stairs, some following the alien some not
Eliza Madrigal: I hope I'd have your reaction too
Catrinamonblue Resident: me too
Mickorod Renard: seems like its a requirement to either help comprehend or maybe just to add more persons

Eliza Madrigal: a little funny, his having an issue with strict father
Qt Core: yes, it bother me a little how i knew it ?
Eliza Madrigal: empathy? familiarity?
Mickorod Renard: QT,,can you remember the car accident dream you had?
Eliza Madrigal: if I were projecting the refugee crisis I might consider the strict expectations and upbringing of many trying to immigrate
Qt Core: walking in a park i found and throw away a big carrot, that went under the wheel of a little car that ended against a wall killing the driver
Mickorod Renard: ahh thats the one yes
Qt Core: then i found a piece of paper that asked me what i would do, call the police and lie, call the police and tell the truth or stay silent
Mickorod Renard: yes, ..hmmm..nothing like this one..sorry
Eliza Madrigal: :))

Qt Core: one note, not as for some idea of machismo but i don't cry, i went near crying a few times but never really cried, not even on my father death (and sometimes i feel a little guilty about that), so it felt strange dreaming about crying

Mickorod Renard: the fermi paradox is about the apparent lonelines of us as a planet with neings?
Eliza Madrigal: oh wow, Qt
Eliza Madrigal: even more beautiful. did you find that you'd cried actually, when you woke?
Mickorod Renard: wow Qt..I am a right proper cry baby these days
Eliza Madrigal: aw :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: aww :)
Qt Core: the question is something like, if on a statistical level is sure that alien exist why we never met one
Qt Core: almost, not more than a couple tears in case
Eliza Madrigal: hm
Eliza Madrigal nods... seems more probable we would have, so the absence is felt as some confirmation of none?

Qt Core: and the answer is usually distance, in space and/or in time
Eliza Madrigal: and that we're not worthy yet :P
Qt Core: another possibility ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Mickorod Renard: could that be linked to the strict father...the fermi paradox?
Eliza Madrigal: interesting
Mickorod Renard: I find it a paradox..a strict father is often one that cares a lot..but kids dont see it that way
Eliza Madrigal: overprotective, doesn't want him mingling with us?
Qt Core: the idea about rules, maybe, that part quite intrigue me, in the WTF form that is ;-)
Qt Core: no more the don't waste time you have things to do
Eliza Madrigal: ah
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: love the dream, would like to visit it

Mickorod Renard: I often look at these dreams through my own past experience about my own life
Mickorod Renard: as that is likely the only platform I have
Mickorod Renard: I started to look at it as for eg my relationship with my father
Qt Core: for the records the alien reminde me about the leader of the Thundercats toons, maybe a with blond hairs instead of orange

--BELL--

Catrinamonblue Resident: :-D
Eliza Madrigal: oh gee... should write that out in the note
Eliza Madrigal: I don't know much about Thundercats
Mickorod Renard: nor me
Catrinamonblue Resident: :) only vague memories
Qt Core: https://www.google.it/search?q=thund...dercats+lion+o
Qt Core: (lees muscular)
Eliza Madrigal: oh hah
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Qt Core: and more clothed
Mickorod Renard: he he
Catrinamonblue Resident: lol
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Mickorod Renard: just looking it up

Qt Core: he was a gentle guy
Eliza Madrigal: sweet
Eliza Madrigal: a dream fulfilled
Eliza Madrigal: (within a dream)
Mickorod Renard: thats funny..i remember someone saying re a dream I had related to a feline character that there is some link to aliens and cat people

arabella Ella: Hiya! Apologies for being so late!
Mickorod Renard: Hiya Ara
Eliza Madrigal: Hiya Ara! No worries at all
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Ara :)
Qt Core: Hi Ara
arabella Ella smiles
Qt Core: do you want the notecard ?
Eliza Madrigal: gave a copy
Eliza Madrigal gives a moment for Ara to read and give thoughts, then will you share yours too Mick?

Mickorod Renard: so QT..have you any more reflections on the dream,,have you linked it to anything,,not that you should?
Qt Core: i someway think is some form of telling myself there is something better around, with the idea that meeting aliens may unite the world and drive us to a better life
arabella Ella: read it ty :)
Eliza Madrigal: wow
Qt Core: you know, the Star Trek Utopia ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: would surely make our squabbles look more ridiculous
Mickorod Renard: I am a little worried about aliens, but i love that idea QT
Eliza Madrigal: for me the question is, what is likely? And I think it is not an unlikely scenario altogether
Mickorod Renard: for all the supposed intelligence on the earth we sure do make a mess
Eliza Madrigal: yup
Eliza Madrigal: need an anti-greed vaccine
Mickorod Renard: Eliza,,do you mean the likelyhood of aliens helping us?

arabella Ella: I think Qt's aliens are symbolic
arabella Ella: symbolic of difference and similarity
Mickorod Renard: how so Ara?
Eliza Madrigal: yes, maybe not helping us but eventually becoming less unknown
Eliza Madrigal listens
arabella Ella: we fear 'the other' yet we have so much in common too
arabella Ella: the other is like us in many ways
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Qt Core: interesting
arabella Ella: yet there is still fear and trembling somehow, but with smiles
arabella Ella: smiles at the similarities rather than differences
arabella Ella: understanding could lead to more 'unity' perhaps?
arabella Ella: the end



Eliza Madrigal: that would be the hope
Qt Core: there was obviously no language barrier with the alien ;-)
arabella Ella: perhaps add compassion to that I dunno?
arabella Ella: the alien had a Dad
Eliza Madrigal: but admittedly after a few days of facebook feeds I'm a little discouraged by fellow man's immediate reactions toward closing down rather than understanding
arabella Ella: similar to us

Mickorod Renard: my uncertainties circle around the idea that progress seems linked to exploitation..if that is what brings about more advancement maybe we will be exploited
arabella Ella: yes Eliza me too
Qt Core: or maybe he didn't understood a word of what i said him!
arabella Ella: similar feelings
Eliza Madrigal: ha ha Qt
Eliza Madrigal: maybe they are waiting until we evolve beyond an exploitative mindset
Eliza Madrigal: :)
arabella Ella: we are definitely too exploitative in too many ways
Qt Core: he never talked to me, so now i'm not sure if he undersood what i said him
arabella Ella: even with each other
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes Ara
arabella Ella: too much jealousy, too many power struggles, all futile
Eliza Madrigal: I think we'll drop that when we know a better way... but then I think maybe Qt is right that it takes something larger to dwarf our current fears and bring us together
arabella Ella nods
Qt Core: thinking about al the catastrophic movies that ends with a warm feeling about humanity ;-)
Mickorod Renard: yes Eliza,,that would fit nicely with the beginning of the dream too

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: would be nice if what is larger is in an "awe" and "wonder" way
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
arabella Ella: yes
arabella Ella: but the dream also includes huge elements of understanding the other and meeting on (somehow) common ground
Qt Core: like the discovery of how to get most of the sun energy that hit the earth as electricity
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: and relief
arabella Ella: as opposed to some attitudes which Eliza mentioned
arabella Ella: the hate-mongers where other is concerned

Mickorod Renard: perhaps that is the key,,to the recent problems..recognising the plight of those in less fortunate positions
Mickorod Renard: seeing the bigger picture
arabella Ella: not just that Mick
arabella Ella: also taking different attitudes, not the current attitudes which encourage more hate and difference
arabella Ella: the dream searches for solutions to current crises
Mickorod Renard: yes Ara
Eliza Madrigal: recognizing that "I am diminished when another is diminished" and that we'll never feel peace until everyone else does
arabella Ella: what are the possibilities out there? this is one question the dream appears to address
Eliza Madrigal: yes its a game changer dream!
arabella Ella: it certainly is a game changer dream in spite of the tears
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Mickorod Renard: :)

Qt Core: in those days i was somewhat angry with myself, like watching closely myself and ready to scold myself and thinking something like "i don't have, i don't want to become and animal/beast and react with fear
arabella Ella: exactly!
Eliza Madrigal: hmm
Eliza Madrigal: does seem one of those scenarios in which one hopes that the self they wish to be would be the one to show up
arabella Ella: and you are in one of the so called danger areas
arabella Ella: or close by
Qt Core: yes Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: for now we "play as" :))
arabella Ella smiles
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)

arabella Ella: please don't get me wrong, I am certainly not condoning either tragedy or war
Qt Core: fake it until you get it
Eliza Madrigal: Oh I don't hear that from you at all Ara
arabella Ella: thanks!
Mickorod Renard: strangley enough..so far the recent tragedy has resulted in more bombs
Eliza Madrigal: because it is still us v them, them v us. So sad to hear a story today of a family waiting 3 years, supposed to come to America tomorrow, then the state they were arriving has closed itself to refugees for the time being

arabella Ella: will war or bombs resolve anything? Or hatred for that matter?
Qt Core: it sadly seems a solution, and it may even work on the short term
arabella Ella: today BBC world said they interviewed the far right leader in France. They said her words only move France in the direction the attackers want it to move ... ironic to say the least
Mickorod Renard: I am never sure that I get to hear the full story
Eliza Madrigal: indeed
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Mickorod Renard: and the internet is so full of conspiracy theories
Eliza Madrigal: that's sort of what is scariest to me... the people I know who read the least or are the least involved, were the first to begin saying hateful things
Catrinamonblue Resident: :(

arabella Ella: what is strange about the dream is at the end when the Fermi paradox is introduced, what is the relevance there I wonder?
Mickorod Renard: which I love in a fun way but when you want facts its so hard to get them
Qt Core: in this case may stand for a solution that seems very far
Mickorod Renard: yes Ara, I asked qt re that
arabella Ella: apologies for re-asking then :)
Eliza Madrigal: it is a good question...an inspiring one
Qt Core: all in all it say that they exist but are out of reach
arabella Ella: ok
Mickorod Renard: no Ara, its still in the air
Eliza Madrigal: yes
arabella Ella: could you say more Qt please?

Qt Core: the fermi paradox is the question on how we haven't met aliens when statistically speaking is sure they exist out there
arabella Ella nods
arabella Ella: ty
Mickorod Renard: the paradox is related to our apparent lonliness as a planet and yet there are statistaically so many othetr likely inhabited planets out there
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Qt Core: and the main answers are about them being to far or not yet or not anymore advanced enough to come here
arabella Ella: ok

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: I saw something the other day that said statistically the aliens would be much bigger than us
Qt Core: so something that exists but hard to reach, like peace >
arabella Ella: I have another take on that - in my view they exist but our sensibility (or perception) is not capable of us perceiving them as our perception is limited
Eliza Madrigal: makes sense to me
Eliza Madrigal: we know so little about our own limitations of perception, even time and distance
arabella Ella nods
Mickorod Renard: or maybe there is something wierd going on
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Mickorod Renard: he he
Qt Core: i don't think that the basis of aliens senses would be so different, difference in what part of the electromagnetic spectrum they'll see but still sight

Mickorod Renard: maybe we dont exist
Eliza Madrigal: ^^
Catrinamonblue Resident: lol
Eliza Madrigal: I've seen the aliens and they are us
Mickorod Renard: :)
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Catrinamonblue Resident: :-D
Qt Core: and the dreams of nonexistant people what are, the existing universe ?

arabella Ella: what i mean is we don't have sonar like bats, we cannot hear dolphins communicating as our hearing does not go that far, etc., who knows how many other things we are not capable of perceiving
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: true
Eliza Madrigal: we should be humble and I think, hopeful
Mickorod Renard: Ara, I remember someone trying to write a book about that
arabella Ella: as my friend Immanuel Kant once said, we do not perceive things as they are in themselves as our mind consists of a certain structure and we cannot perceive outside that structure of which the human mind is composed
Eliza Madrigal: oh name dropping, lol
arabella Ella: he he
Mickorod Renard: he he
Eliza Madrigal giggles
arabella Ella: crediting my source :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)

Eliza Madrigal: beginning to know our limitations has to be progress
arabella Ella nods
Mickorod Renard: well..is that posible?
arabella Ella: to some extent it is
Mickorod Renard: are we all not destined to become Gods?
Eliza Madrigal: even if we come to find we tend toward violence etc... then we can choose to veer from that course
arabella Ella: could it be that only power mongers veer towards violence?
arabella Ella: regardless of socio economic status?
Mickorod Renard: I am not sure Ara..I have doubts there
Eliza Madrigal: they must believe in power... so the structure that rewards it must be there first?
arabella Ella: humans commit violent acts for a reason Micko
Eliza Madrigal: well, hm.. yes the causal link isn't accurate
arabella Ella: maybe to submit others to their will?
Mickorod Renard: power mongers often dont need to resort to violence,,they can dupe the innocent
Eliza Madrigal: a kind of violence
arabella Ella: i am talking of violence at all levels not simply at top levels
Mickorod Renard: for sure,,thats my point,,define violence
arabella Ella: gang violence for example
arabella Ella: or at the other end of the spectrum political violence

Mickorod Renard: are we not steered in direction by the most convincing of persons?
Qt Core: who does not like power, even in the lower forms don;t know like winning the droad traffic race in the morning
arabella Ella: that;s rhetoric not violence
arabella Ella: (said to Mick)
Eliza Madrigal: :) qt - yes if everyone had a helicopter to get around it, one would need a jet
Mickorod Renard: ohh ty
arabella Ella: he he
arabella Ella: I don't like power
Mickorod Renard: well, top and bottom of it is some are backed into a corner by unscupulous persons

Catrinamonblue Resident: slips away...... bye all :)
Mickorod Renard: bye cat
arabella Ella: bye Cat!
Qt Core: bye Cat
Eliza Madrigal: bye Cat! ntsy
Eliza Madrigal: I'm hopeful for more and more civilization. Pinker thinks the world is becoming less violent, and I don't see it... but... my intuition is that we have to
Eliza Madrigal: evolve that way
arabella Ella: I'm hopeful too
Eliza Madrigal: most of my beliefs come down to manners
arabella Ella: yes
Mickorod Renard: i would like the rest of the world to help those in need..so violence need not be an only resort
Qt Core: yes, but they have to be honest, not a gentle greeting before a backstabbing

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: well..great dream QT
Eliza Madrigal: alas, time to go. but time well spent with you today <3
Qt Core: how much of a lowering of our living standards would we accett to make everyone have if not the same an acceptable living standard ?
Qt Core: ty mick, sorry it take all the time
Eliza Madrigal: thanks so much, was great
arabella Ella: bye Eliza lovely to see you here tonight!
Mickorod Renard: hey , that was the great thing Qt,,a dream with lots to look at,,thankyou
Eliza Madrigal: bfn and lovely to see you too!
Eliza Madrigal: nite
Mickorod Renard: bye Eliza
Qt Core: :-) bye Eliza
arabella Ella: Great discussion thanks even tho I was late!
Qt Core: :)

arabella Ella: Is Italy really in panic mode Qt?
Qt Core: no, but a couple of case of false alarms both in Rome and Milan subway today
arabella Ella: oh
arabella Ella: and lots of police presence in the big cities I saw in the Italian news tonight
Qt Core: and FBI told uis that Rome Colosseo, and Milan Scala and Duomo are targets
Mickorod Renard: I know we are all targets..but do you think Paris is a greater target for any reason?
arabella Ella: oh how sad
arabella Ella: apparently the cities being mentioned are Rome Milano Washington and London
Mickorod Renard: London is always a target it seems
arabella Ella: yes
arabella Ella: I must get going lovely to see you good night and thanks again!
Mickorod Renard: and its so odd because it is so international
Qt Core: all in all of the biggest nations italy is one of the few still untouched
Mickorod Renard: nite nite ara
Qt Core: 'night Ara
Mickorod Renard: i too must move on QT...but again, wonderful dream
Mickorod Renard: nite nite
Qt Core: ty Mick, i'm approaching sleeptime, i better go too