2016.05.19 13:00 - TSK Session: Imagining Perfect Resonance

The Guardians for this meeting were Eliza and Mick.

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Bruce Mowbray: afk to get some water...
Bruce Mowbray: brb.
Eliza Madrigal: ok
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Kori.
Korel Laloix: Heya
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Kori :)
Korel Laloix: At work so in and out.

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: I learned something about time travel last night - from Steven Hawking, no less.
Eliza Madrigal: Very interested...
Eliza Madrigal: Would you like to wait a few minutes to share with others too?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aggers :)
Agatha Macbeth: Evening all
Bruce Mowbray: Well, the farther you can get from the Earth, the faster time goes, so it is possible to travel into the future by going up a very tall mountain.
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Aggers!
Agatha Macbeth: Who is sharing what?
Eliza Madrigal: Bruce is teaching us to time travel
Agatha Macbeth: Oh, nice
Bruce Mowbray: by ascending a 7,000 foot mountain and staying on top for one day, you go 20 nanoseconds into the future - really!
Bruce Mowbray: It has been proven by cesium clocks.
Agatha Macbeth: Sounds good
Agatha Macbeth: Whosium?
Bruce Mowbray: Cesium -- atomic clocks.
Agatha Macbeth: Oh, those
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Agatha Macbeth: We are old friends
Bleu Oleander: hi all :)
Agatha Macbeth: Bleuji x
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Bleu.
Eliza Madrigal: Is that why they think the tubes are very doable planetary travel devices in the future?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :)
Agatha Macbeth remembers The Tubes
Bruce Mowbray: Don't know about the tubes, Eliza.
Agatha Macbeth thinks she needs some wilder hair
Eliza Madrigal: like elevators sort of.... at least I've heard that is the most plausible mainstream idea :) admittedly I haven't been keeping up to date!
Eliza Madrigal splashes Aggers
Agatha Macbeth: Nya
Bleu Oleander: :)

Bruce Mowbray: I think the elevators were a way of getting above earth - perhaps into earth orbit... but not to other planets.
Agatha Macbeth: Isn't that what the space shuttle is for? (alledgedly)
Bruce Mowbray: But elevators played an important part in Steven Hawking's show last night.
Eliza Madrigal would not like to go into orbit
Eliza Madrigal listens
Bruce Mowbray: I don't think my vertigo could handle being in space.
Agatha Macbeth listens to Liz not going into orbit
Eliza Madrigal: :::whooooosh:::::
Bleu Oleander: we're already in orbit :)
Bruce Mowbray: It makes me dizzy just watching those folks in the iss.
Eliza Madrigal: lol... well yeah, there is that
Agatha Macbeth: Would be OK if the hostesses had velcro shoes like in 2001
Bruce Mowbray LOVED THAT MOVIE.
Eliza Madrigal: I'm looking for my family, not to be more alone
Agatha Macbeth: ME DID TOO
Bruce Mowbray: oops, caps on.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: What do you mean Liz?
Bruce Mowbray: I took an entire class of 8th high school kids to see it, back in the late 90's.
Eliza Madrigal: would like to visit other planets :)
Agatha Macbeth: Respect
Eliza Madrigal: nice, Bruce!
Bruce Mowbray: NOT late 90's, late 60's early 70's.
Bruce Mowbray: maybe 1970 or 71.
Eliza Madrigal: oh, while I was being born :)
Agatha Macbeth nods
Bruce Mowbray: Whenever it was in the theaters.
Bleu Oleander: lol
Bruce Mowbray: nods. we celebrated your birthday < Eliza.
Agatha Macbeth: You young thing you
Eliza Madrigal: ^.^

Bruce Mowbray listens for more about Exercise 22 ---
Agatha Macbeth just noticed K's hair has returned
Eliza Madrigal: oh, yes!
Eliza Madrigal: Well, does anyone have a report today?
Korel Laloix smiles.. starting to grow it out again.
Eliza Madrigal: we discussed a lot on Monday, but has anyone thought further?
Bruce Mowbray: Just wondering if all of our thoughts and experiences are actually imagination....
Bleu Oleander: busy week here for me, so will listen a bit

Eliza Madrigal: I was pondering the exercise as a mirror
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Agatha Macbeth: 'This is not here'
Eliza Madrigal: Look into past, present, future at any point and there is a you who is looking, and a you who is situated within that time, drawing a view or story (past, present, future) of their own...
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, excellent point, Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: One has the sense that the one they are looking in on is quite similar to the one looking, but not nearly the same.
Bleu Oleander: every where we go we take ourselves with us
Eliza Madrigal: There is a difference in knowledge, when we go into different times; also a difference in desire, what seems crucial varies quite a lot. There seems a difference in the awareness of that looked-in-on self too – whether she has some sense of being seen.

Agatha Macbeth: Hm, maybe not always
Eliza Madrigal: you mean possible to be going through motions as though not quite conscious Aggers?
Bleu Oleander: do you sense a clear break between you and you imagining yourself?
Bruce Mowbray: I don't.
Eliza Madrigal: for me, I have a strong memory of a very vulnerable time, and feeling as though my future self was looking through the window at me...
Agatha Macbeth: Well who am 'I' and which bits do I take with me? :p
Eliza Madrigal: as if "the fact I'm looking at you proves it will all be okay"
Eliza Madrigal: :) Aggers... bits!
Agatha Macbeth: Bits!
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Bleu Oleander: you validating you?

Agatha Macbeth: Bits bytes and nybbles

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: it from bits
Eliza Madrigal: yes it was a particularly strange time... and I couldn't help but go back to it during this exercise
Bruce Mowbray: Could such validation also happen when looking into a mirror?
Agatha Macbeth: How old were you?
Eliza Madrigal: that's part of my question Bruce. Hm, roughly 15
Agatha Macbeth: Aw
Agatha Macbeth: Cute
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: With freckles?
Eliza Madrigal: lots
Agatha Macbeth imagines
Bruce Mowbray: ahhh... yes, 13 through 16 is a very vulnerable time.
Eliza Madrigal: two that looked like extra nostrils actually, heheh
Agatha Macbeth: Good grief

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Mick :)
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Mick.
Agatha Macbeth: Here he is!
Mickorod Renard: Hiya, sorry I am late
Agatha Macbeth wonders if Mick is getting a nc
Eliza Madrigal: no worries... gave you a little of session to catch up
Agatha Macbeth: The answer is yes :p
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: was just reading up

Eliza Madrigal: part two of my sort of report is about appreciation and impermanence ... that appreciation seems the acknowledging of a moment that comes forward... more than any 'thing' or self
Agatha Macbeth prefers to read down
Eliza Madrigal: the reality that passes
Mickorod Renard: :)
Eliza Madrigal: if we appreciate a meal, it isn't just 'a meal' that is appreciated... and it is a gift to us, to experience that appreciation as well
Eliza Madrigal: so not really something we 'do'
Eliza Madrigal: lots of 'co-arisings'
Agatha Macbeth always appreciates meals

Bruce Mowbray: For me, much of the "validity" of exercise 22 seems to depend on whether "resonance" is real. . . I mean, can we "resonate" in different environments - especially temporal ones. Do our various environments "resonate" with their occupants, etc.
Eliza Madrigal: go on Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, your "appreciate" is directly applicable.
Bruce Mowbray: For me, to appreciate a space is to resonate with it,
Bruce Mowbray: same with people,
Bruce Mowbray: when i appreciate them.
Eliza Madrigal: tuning?
Mickorod Renard: nice point Bruce
Agatha Macbeth: Fork?
Bruce Mowbray: It could be called 'tuning,' for sure.
Bruce Mowbray: Tuning fork is an excellent example, aggers.
Agatha Macbeth loves tuning forks
Bruce Mowbray: also gongs.
Bruce Mowbray: bells.
Eliza Madrigal looks at Bleu's and my hair

Agatha Macbeth: I love the way they vibrate in harmony
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: great hair :)
Bruce Mowbray: "Vibration" could be another way to express resonance.
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Eliza Madrigal nods...
Agatha Macbeth: Yes Brucie, it is resonance...same wavelength
Eliza Madrigal: yes I like that very much
Bruce Mowbray: "How large is the glow?"
Eliza Madrigal: and touches again on Mick's sense of underlying reality (he was talking about last time..
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
Eliza Madrigal: (diving for pearls)

Mickorod Renard: I guess there is the diference between vaguely aware and noticing in an appreciative way,,which would be like resonance?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, the way that I mean the term 'resonance' is both a consequence and an influence- and appreciate might be one way of being aware of that.
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps the reason people 'practice' is so that they move into that more and more, so vague awareness becomes less vague and more aware
Bruce Mowbray: so, appreciation would be a form of awareness-resonance.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, for sure, Eliza.
Bruce Mowbray: Gratitude is another form of it.
Mickorod Renard: yes, I was just pondering,,thinking that when one resonates with something,,in the way we are discussing now,,could we say we absorb it too,,and in a funny way this links in
Eliza Madrigal: mmm
Bruce Mowbray ponders "absorbing resonance."
Bruce Mowbray: links in and sinks in.
Mickorod Renard: he he ,,but I was also thinking of becoming one with it
Bruce Mowbray: I feel like I am absorbing classical music when I appreciate it.

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: I hope that others feel like they are absorbing my appreciation when I feel that for them.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: sounds weird, but I'm moving away from 'gratitude' since it seems such heavily dualistic way of being... kind of clunky... -- But that moving away is probably temporary emphasis on my part. Just being with what is, acknowledging, maybe resonating is perfect...
Eliza Madrigal: at times I've felt my gratitude for someone, distancing me from them....
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Eliza Madrigal: and vice versa

Bruce Mowbray: How about embracing the "other" person with gratitude?
Bruce Mowbray: sort of surrounding them with it, and with appreciation.
Bleu Oleander: not resonating with clunky gratitude :)
Eliza Madrigal grins
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Bleu Oleander: how is gratitude dualistic?
Bruce Mowbray ponders "holding the other" with all sorts of positive feelings.
Agatha Macbeth ponders clunky gratitude
Bleu Oleander: interesting tack
Eliza Madrigal: one could call it gratitude or not, to 'dive into' the resonance with another... but for me it is sort of an exercise to step out of terms that have come to place strong emphasis on something "I" am doing
Eliza Madrigal is not afraid to be weird, lol
Bruce Mowbray: That "doing" thing might be a key to something, Eliza.
Agatha Macbeth: Just as well

Bruce Mowbray: When you did Exer. 22, did you DO anything in the different time zones?
Eliza Madrigal: :) I think 'gratitude' has been packaged in a certain way and, like I said, prob just a temporary thought exercise
Bruce Mowbray: besides look at yourself, I mean.
Bleu Oleander: can't resonate with the something "i" am doing part ... have already accepted that ... probably more concerning with what I am doing
Mickorod Renard: if one merges with something as we appreciate it could we say we loose our self during that time?
Eliza Madrigal: I came to realize that I was complicit in things I thought I was only a victim of... but that's a big report I decided not to share :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Mick, that sense of losing oneself is sometimes called "ecstasy."
Eliza Madrigal: nice, nods
Mickorod Renard: yikes, I question myself on that too Eliza
Bruce Mowbray: literally, standing outside of oneself.
Bleu Oleander: that would be an interesting report Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: without detail, I saw that I sometimes took advantage of freedoms that came with others' dysfunctions
Bleu Oleander: that sounds dualistic
Eliza Madrigal: sure.. same timeline mentioned earlier
Bleu Oleander: so by dualistic are you meaning "me" vs "other" kinda thing?
Eliza Madrigal: a way of seeing I carried into adulthood... what I was describing was the mindset of my 15 yo self...
Eliza Madrigal: in a violent household, who felt 'helpless' at the time
Bleu Oleander: sounds very tough!
Eliza Madrigal: for sure... feels amazing to go back 'in' without the blame
Bleu Oleander: sorry if left scars
Bruce Mowbray empathizes. . . Every child (and every person) needs some space in which she feels safe.
Eliza Madrigal: but the blame was useful making me the tough cookie I am today, hahah
Bleu Oleander smiles
Bruce Mowbray ponders "safe resonance."
Eliza Madrigal: brb

Wol Euler: evening all
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Wol.
Bleu Oleander: hi Wol :)
Agatha Macbeth: Wollie ♥
Mickorod Renard: Hi Wol
Wol Euler: before anyone asks, I've got nothing today. I haven't read a single word or exercised a single exercise since I got back from Canada.
Eliza Madrigal: back.... no worries Wol :)
Agatha Macbeth: Concentrate on getting enough sleep

Mickorod Renard: Bruce, during a previous session you mentioned something about a perfect outcome?...cant remember how you Phrased it?
Wol Euler: even that I am failing at
Bruce Mowbray: np, we're mostly talking about our own ex[eriences, not just the book or the specific exercise, Wol.
Eliza Madrigal: we had a rich session Monday too so scattered reports today
Agatha Macbeth: OMG
Bruce Mowbray: a perfect outcome?
Wol Euler listens.
Eliza Madrigal: and I agree with Agatha...whatever is beneficial to your rest and play
Bruce Mowbray tries to remember the context.
Mickorod Renard: maybe not perfect,,,,,,,,I think I was reflecting on my scenario
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Agatha Macbeth: Le scenario de Mick
Mickorod Renard: no worries
Eliza Madrigal: if detached you mean?
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Mickorod Renard: but sometimes it does seem that our hardships are part of a story that is integral to the outcome

Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps I'd said something like, "Everyone's path is perfect."
Mickorod Renard: thats it Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: which I do "believe," btw.
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Bruce Mowbray: and each step of it is also perfect...
Bleu Oleander: hmmm not sure I would agree with that but nice to think that
Bruce Mowbray: :0
Mickorod Renard: thank you
Bruce Mowbray: That's a core belief of mine, actually.
Bruce Mowbray: as is "Basic Goodness.
Bleu Oleander: so you think of your path as perfect?
Mickorod Renard: I think I also believe that too,,and remind myself rarely of it
Bruce Mowbray: without which i would have given up decades ago.

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: I think of everyone's path as perfect.
Bleu Oleander: I definitely don't think my path as been perfect
Eliza Madrigal: I am very dualistic on that...haha... the part of me 'in time' says no way and yet the underlying reality I sense, affirms 'all is well', like the me looking in the bedroom window
Bleu Oleander: lots of room for failure and improvement here lol
Bruce Mowbray: It brought you to where you are now, Bleu.... but I don't mean to argue... although that argument would also be perfect, of course.

Mickorod Renard: I do it by trying to view the end of my life and look back,,then you see that everything had to be the way it was
Bruce Mowbray: for sure, Mick.
Bruce Mowbray: but not necessary to go to the end of life -- just look "back" from right here...
Eliza Madrigal nods.... one aspires to see that elegance for sure
Bleu Oleander: just because I'm here now doesn't mean my path was perfect, for me and from my perspective
Mickorod Renard: I think its interesting to ponder it occassionaly
Bruce Mowbray: What does it mean when folks say, "It is what it is"?
Wol Euler: I'm still considering that, but I think I disagree *for me*. I can easily imagine a half-dozen alternative places I might be right now, which would in at least one way be superior to my present state
Bleu Oleander: lol me too
Bruce Mowbray ponders "being" as a way of resonance.
Eliza Madrigal believes in some brilliant underlying equation while still having that experience too

Bleu Oleander: what does a brilliant underlying equation look like?
Eliza Madrigal: will let you know ^.^
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Bleu Oleander: ha ha!
Mickorod Renard: I think of the disaters in my life and think of the joy that would not have arrived had that path been diferent
Eliza Madrigal: me too... big 'regrets' but what do I know really
Eliza Madrigal: about all the possible trajectories
Bruce Mowbray ponders resonating compassionately with one's own history.
Eliza Madrigal: nice, Bruce :)
Bleu Oleander: I don't have regrets, just think the path wasn't perfect for me
Wol Euler: oh I do have regrets...
Bleu Oleander: I don't really, have learned a lot from experiences that I could regret but don't because of that

Bruce Mowbray: Saying "the path is perfect" does not mean that we didn't make mistakes, or that we don't have regrets about what we did.
Eliza Madrigal: hindsight and all that... one 'should' probably be able to look back at former decisions and be a bit embarrassed, having grown?
Bleu Oleander: yes, and learned perhaps
Bleu Oleander: what does perfect mean?
Wol Euler: true, eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: but the reason I brought it up was to see if it fit in somewhere

Bruce Mowbray: There's a saying in 'positive-thinking' movements: "If we knew better, we'd do better..."
Agatha Macbeth: Perfect is as perfect does
Bleu Oleander: perfect seems relative
Eliza Madrigal: I think that's a beautiful way to find compassion for someone when it is illusive... that "if they had known, if they could have seen..."
Bleu Oleander: well, that's a judgement in a way
Eliza Madrigal: but maybe 'perfectly' there would be no 'need' for compassion
Bruce Mowbray: To me, "perfect" means looking at the whole situation - the context and my actions in it - with appreciation, and perhaps with compassionate acceptance for my "predicament' at the time.
Bleu Oleander: and "who" is telling you your path is perfect?
Eliza Madrigal: well said Bruce, I resonate with that :))
Agatha Macbeth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nn-zm9VZz8
Bleu Oleander: that's a bit like our future self looking back at our present self?
Bruce Mowbray: I am telling myself that.
Agatha Macbeth grins
Eliza Madrigal: aw Chaplin is so cute

Mickorod Renard: I think we all have a role to play..which in turn effects everything else,,in that way the role must be perfect
Mickorod Renard: like a jigsaw peice
Mickorod Renard: unlike my spelling
Bleu Oleander: not sure I have a role, how would you know what your role is?
Wol Euler: I love the way they subtltled the signboards in that video. Who are they writing subtitles for?
Bruce Mowbray: Are you saying that "no separation" implies a sort of perfection, Mick?
Mickorod Renard: one doesnt need to know what the role is
Mickorod Renard: yes Bruce
Agatha Macbeth: :P
Bruce Mowbray: I agree with you, Mick.
Wol Euler: you might be somebody else's bodhisattva and never find out
Bruce Mowbray: For sure, Wol.
Mickorod Renard: true
Eliza Madrigal: "byob"
Agatha Macbeth: Or ever find out what it means!
Bruce Mowbray: Bring your own booze?
Eliza Madrigal: be your own bodhisattva
Agatha Macbeth: Could be
Bleu Oleander: so some sort of predetermined role that you may not know you have?
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Bruce Mowbray: be your own boddisatva?
Bleu Oleander: ok will stop playing devils advocate ... smiles
Eliza Madrigal: I love thinking about all the possibilities, don't have to believe in them in a fixed way 
Agatha Macbeth: The Lucifer's exponent
Mickorod Renard: reminds himself of the strange jigsaw dream
Bruce Mowbray: [D.A. is a 'perfect' role for you, Bleu.]
Bleu Oleander: ty Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Bruce Mowbray: yw.
Eliza Madrigal still thinks you all are neat
Bleu Oleander likes to push people on their concepts
Bruce Mowbray: The mark of an excellent teacher.
Agatha Macbeth likes to push Bleu into the pool
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: ha ha!
Bruce Mowbray: like Socrates!
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Bruce Mowbray: Remembers that the first thing to know about a new diet is that it is NOT about the food.

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: hm?
Bleu Oleander: unless its chocolate
Agatha Macbeth: It's about the not-food
Agatha Macbeth eats therefore she is
Bruce Mowbray: It is about responsibility for your own decision making. . .
Bleu Oleander: we are fortunate to even have the choice to diet
Bruce Mowbray: bite by bite.
Bruce Mowbray: :)

Agatha Macbeth: Early night required peeps so I'll sling me hook
Agatha Macbeth: Byee
Eliza Madrigal: Night Agatha
Bruce Mowbray reminded himself that the perfect thing to do now would be to scrape up supper.
Bleu Oleander: bye Aggers
Eliza Madrigal: and happy scraping Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: TY!
Bruce Mowbray: bye for now.
Bleu Oleander: bye bye Bruce
Wol Euler: bye bruce, bye aggers
Mickorod Renard: bye Ags
Mickorod Renard: bye Bruce
Mickorod Renard: gosh, it that the time
Eliza Madrigal: quite
Mickorod Renard: well, interesting session
Bleu Oleander: time flys
Eliza Madrigal: quite
Wol Euler: thank god it's bedtime :)
Mickorod Renard: he he
Eliza Madrigal: :) sweet dreams til sunbeams find you.....
Eliza Madrigal: sweet dreams and leave your worries behind you...
Mickorod Renard: :)
Eliza Madrigal: (listener is coordinating lullabye with accompanying whispers)

Mickorod Renard: yeh, i can still hear children running around upstairs
Wol Euler: I will on Monday
Wol Euler: goodnight all, be happy and safe
Bleu Oleander: nite Wol
Eliza Madrigal: Night Wol
Mickorod Renard: nite nite Wol
Eliza Madrigal: time to read a bedtime story maybe Mick
Mickorod Renard: I better go and shout at some kids
Eliza Madrigal: lol noooo.....
Mickorod Renard: same thing Eliza
Mickorod Renard: he he
Eliza Madrigal grins
Bleu Oleander: take care all
Eliza Madrigal: and they roared their terrible roars...
Eliza Madrigal: TC Bleu :)
Mickorod Renard: they love it
Eliza Madrigal: Night Kori, too
Bleu Oleander: bye bye
Korel Laloix: Ciao
Mickorod Renard: ok, nite nite everyone

Eliza Madrigal: ever read Where the Wild Things Are?
Mickorod Renard: byeeee
Mickorod Renard: no
Eliza Madrigal: a must :)
Mickorod Renard: is it good?
Eliza Madrigal: so fun
Eliza Madrigal: and fun to read aloud
Mickorod Renard: ok,,will look it up
Eliza Madrigal: I have a puppet of them...hehe
Mickorod Renard: ty
Mickorod Renard: he he
Eliza Madrigal: have fun and be good if you can
Mickorod Renard: erk
Eliza Madrigal: bye bye bye

If feeling particularly adventurous, and if it is available in your country, Christopher Walken reads
the book aloud (to adults!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKNaYlzssbc