2016.05.27 13:00 - TSK Session: "the funny walk bit"

The Guardian for this excellent meeting was Mick.
Eliza posted this session and should never worry about being away. What a great session and good read!

Bleu Oleander: hi Cat :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: HI Bleu :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Bruce :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Tura :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Tura welcome :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: hi bruce :)
Tura Brezoianu: hi all
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, everyone.
Bleu Oleander: I see Mick is here ... Eliza won't be here today ... waves and hope you feel better Eliza !!

(Thank you Bleu! Not so great but taking care! Ty!)

Bleu Oleander: hi Mick :)
Mickorod Renard: hiya, sorry i am a little late
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Mick :)
Mickorod Renard: :)
Mickorod Renard: yes sure
Bleu Oleander: right on time!
Mickorod Renard: although, I am unprepared
Bleu Oleander: hi Wol :)
Wol Euler: evening all!
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Wol :)
Mickorod Renard: so will have to just go on what everyone else has
Mickorod Renard: Hi Wol

Wol Euler: hello Tura, welcome to the club :)
Mickorod Renard: yes! so lovely you accepted to take a guardian role
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Bleu Oleander: would you like to be MC today Mick?
Mickorod Renard: Is Bruce here?
Mickorod Renard: MC?
Wol Euler: chased him away
Mickorod Renard: he he
Bleu Oleander: he was and has to take care of rl today
Bleu Oleander: MC = host

Mickorod Renard: I was wondering where we have gotten to, re tsk
Mickorod Renard: ah yes, no probs there..I am host
Bleu Oleander: I think exercise 23
Bleu Oleander: going without going
Mickorod Renard: thats right thanks, I read 22 in haste on monday
Bleu Oleander: I have a question to start us maybe?
Mickorod Renard: and there was the funny walk bit
Wol Euler: sure
Mickorod Renard: yes please Bleu
Bleu Oleander: how do you all understand "non-going"?
Bleu Oleander: I liked this exercise but am stuck there
Mickorod Renard: good question,,he he although I think I am a bit behind
Mickorod Renard: I was pondering something re the funny walk bit ,,and felt that that had a non going element to it
Wol Euler: I can't help you there Bleu, sorry to say
Bleu Oleander: somehow I never got to that feeling
Mickorod Renard: I cant help really.....
Wol Euler: I've spent the last two weeks doing noting but work, and the last three days doing nothing but sleep. I am far behind
Bleu Oleander: but I like the exercise to walk slow and deliberate
Mickorod Renard: I can understand that Wol..we all get held up through other commitments
Bleu Oleander: good you're catching up on sleep!
Mickorod Renard: for sure
Wol Euler smiles.
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)

Bleu Oleander's "Arrow of Time"

Bleu Oleander: btw, did you all see the art project announcement?
Wol Euler: yes
Bleu Oleander: any questions about it?
Mickorod Renard: I had the feeling during the walk that there was a feeling of wanting to be infront more,,and accepting the holding back was a sort of non going?
Bleu Oleander: ah interesting
Bleu Oleander: I felt that also
Mickorod Renard: but I dont know if thats pertinent
Mickorod Renard: as I say, I feel a bit lacking from being a lil behind
Tura Brezoianu: If you do the exercise on the spot, you're definitely not going :)

Tura Brezoianu: Maybe that is what is meant by non-going: attending just to the process of walking, not attending to any destination
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Mickorod Renard: but also...there was some part I think,,may be wrong..that again as in other exercises that the perspective is altered by the slow walk and ...yes, well said Tura
Bleu Oleander: focus on the walking movement
Mickorod Renard: there is usually an expectation I think,,that you go somewhere..when walking..
Bleu Oleander: well, you do ... from one point in space to another?
Mickorod Renard: I think that much of the exercises are just challenging what we take for granted and trying to get us to veiw afresh
Bleu Oleander: agree
Mickorod Renard: taken as a whole,,the book should free us up to a more questioning state
Bleu Oleander: it was probably a lot like when we first started to walk ... baby steps until we took the process for granted and internalized it
Wol Euler nods.
Mickorod Renard: yet perhaps on an individual exercise it may not appear very great
Mickorod Renard: yes, nice way of putting it Bleu
Bleu Oleander: a kind of re-boot or re-start in a way
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)

Mickorod Renard: sometimes when I look at say..a flower and I really really look at it,,it is so facinating and beautiiful
Bleu Oleander: yes, we miss those beautiful details when we move without awareness of context
Mickorod Renard: If we had time to do that with most things the world might look slightly diferent,,yet nothing has changed
Wol Euler: life is fractal: the closer you look, the more there is to see. But the reverse of that is also true: the less closely you look, the more it recedes from you. 
Bleu Oleander: would this be the "knowing" that he speaks about?
Wol Euler: FWIW my understanding is "yes it is"
Bleu Oleander: :)
Mickorod Renard: there is a warmth from the idea that you know something..well for me anyway........and yes, I think that being able to see in that way, in a relaxed way,,would be a knowing<

Wol Euler: I relate that to Pema's comment a while back that "appreciation" would be a good substitute for "knowledge"
Bleu Oleander: nice
Mickorod Renard: yes, I like that Wol..and we may have touched on that the other week too
Mickorod Renard: while you wre away
Wol Euler nods.
Mickorod Renard: i too was thinking of Pema,,and his phenemology
Mickorod Renard: and think that tsk and pheno go hand in hand
Bleu Oleander: many similarities
Mickorod Renard: is TSK a way the Pema helped his thought process to extend his phemenomelogy observations?
Mickorod Renard: well, u know what I mean
Wol Euler: indeed
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)<

Mickorod Renard: I was pondering that as a means to satisfy my curiosity..and to find a purpose for the altered appreciation of objects and stuff
Bleu Oleander: I'm reading "Phenomenology of Perception" by Merleau-Ponty and finding lots of parallels
Mickorod Renard: yes, i recall you saying Bleu..can you think of any bits that are juicy?
Bleu Oleander: I could probably ... but better if I had prepared something, which I didn't 'cause its a BIG book :)
Bleu Oleander: talks a lot about space and time
Bleu Oleander: the perceived world
Bleu Oleander: embodiment
Mickorod Renard: I am sure, when I recall what my thinking was like prior to pab 8 years ago..that I am such a different thinker now
Bleu Oleander: we could for sure talk about this book :)
Mickorod Renard: thank you Bleu, yes, its a subject that one needs to prep for
Bleu Oleander: I think the 8 years has had profound effects
Bleu Oleander: lots of juicy parts tho :)<

Mickorod Renard: When I think of Pema..I think that he had a special need for his practice in Pheno..but question what I would get from it..does that sound selfish?
Mickorod Renard: yet i am certain that I have been richly benefitted from what we have done
Wol Euler: I'm not sure that selfish is a useful word in this case
Mickorod Renard: maybe not,,but was thinking that I usually have a predetermined use for what I do
Wol Euler: in that case I would substitute the word selfish for a concept like "does that suggest a habit of mind that I need to examine?" :)
Bleu Oleander: Merleau-Ponty repeats often in the book, that along with existence we received a way of existing or a kind of style and that all our actions are related to this structure and yet free not in spite of but rather by those means and perhaps questioning those means isn't selfish Mick
Wol Euler: knowing before you enter something what you expect to get out of it rather suggests that you are going in with a fixed mind (not to say "closed")
Mickorod Renard: still digesting that bit from Bleu....but yes Wol..this way round was proberbly the best way to do it
Wol Euler: in the way that one looks more closely at an unknown (unlabelled) flower than if one says from a good way away "that is a rose"
Mickorod Renard: thats a great way to look at it Wol,,yes, from an inquisitivness
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bleu Oleander: I think there are contexts where "that is a rose" is helpful and contexts where close examination without labels is rewarding
Wol Euler: indeed
Bleu Oleander: I think we can deal with both perspectives with more awareness
Wol Euler: on the highway at 90kmh for example, the last thing one wants is to be saying to oneself "I seem to see a rectangle in front of me, rapidly growing larger, I wonder what it is"
Bleu Oleander: lol
Bleu Oleander: exactly
Wol Euler smiles.
Catrinamonblue Resident: :-D
Bleu Oleander: I think its when we mix up the contexts and perspectives that we get into trouble :)
Wol Euler nods.
Bleu Oleander: so for me, asking us to walk more slowly and then more slowly still is playing with contexts and perspectives ... assumptions

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: I am sure that what we gain here is knowledge..but a subtle one ,yes, maybe breaking or reaffirming assumptions
Bleu Oleander: I find walking/hiking in nature forces me to watch my steps and to step more causiously
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bleu Oleander: especially rattle snake season hehe
Catrinamonblue Resident: O.0
Mickorod Renard: I often think of the master shoe maker, when I need to put things right in my head...like a shoe seller may know shoes they wouldnt know the full detail of construction of the shoe like the master
Catrinamonblue Resident: slips away... bye all :)
Wol Euler: bye cat. take care
Bleu Oleander: but it is also true that the master may be so set in his ways that it blocks creativity in the shoe maker?
Bleu Oleander: bye Cat
Mickorod Renard: somewhere , by becoming deeper in our observations and appreciation we allow ourselves to become more knowing
Mickorod Renard: Bye Cat
Mickorod Renard: yes, there is that risk Bleu, but that is where compacency sets in I guess<

Bleu Oleander: we had a salon on "expert witnesses" this week
Mickorod Renard: yes Bleu?
Bleu Oleander: seems people can get overly confident in their "expertness"
Wol Euler listens.
Bleu Oleander: there's a whole industry of expert witnesses
Mickorod Renard: he he
Bleu Oleander: which presents conflicts of interest
Bleu Oleander: danger of bias
Wol Euler nods.
Bleu Oleander: interesting
Mickorod Renard: I think some folks have personalities like that too..but they are often desired by companies too..for their risk taking
Bleu Oleander: or their "positions on issues"
Bleu Oleander: one can find experts on any subject from any perspective these days
Bleu Oleander: its a growing problem in the courts ... shopping for experts that support one side or the other
Wol Euler: and nothing like a "good expert guide" to distinguish the good ones from the fakes
Mickorod Renard: I also think that the trend in business these days to want big numbers and statistics rather than experience and methodology pushes the trend towards employing overconfident people<

Bleu Oleander: we could continue the metaphor by considering whether or not we are experts on ourselves?
Tura Brezoianu: I think some people have a lot of awareness of themselves, others only a little
Bleu Oleander: are our inner opinions true or how might we be deceived?
Wol Euler: very good question :)
Bleu Oleander: well have to get going ... nice session Mick, thank you
Bleu Oleander: nice to see you all
Mickorod Renard: bye Bleu
Tura Brezoianu: bye Bleu
Mickorod Renard: thanks for beinbg here
Bleu Oleander: til next time :)
Mickorod Renard: I will try and catch up
Mickorod Renard: in case I am host next time
Mickorod Renard: erk
Mickorod Renard: Hi Kori
Korel Laloix: Osiyo<

--BELL--<
 

Mickorod Renard: I am so full of self doubt these days I would def say I am not an expert on myself
Korel Laloix: Just in time to scare you all away again?.. smiles
Mickorod Renard: he he
Wol Euler: hello korel, and bye everyone, I have to be off to bed
Korel Laloix: I find my self perception is not very near what others think of me as well.
Wol Euler: take care, be happy and safe
Korel Laloix: lol
Korel Laloix: Ciao
Mickorod Renard: bye Wol, kip well
Mickorod Renard: no Aggers of Bruce today<

Mickorod Renard: I must get in touch with Liz, to check I know what I am doing
Mickorod Renard: eeeek
Korel Laloix smiles<

(hehhe, taken on its own, this is quite a funny line, Mick!)

Mickorod Renard: Hey Kori, I got out on my motorbike earlier
Korel Laloix: I just wonder how much of what people think of me is the product of things I do subconsciously.
Korel Laloix: Great... I am back riding as well.
Mickorod Renard: yayyyyy
Mickorod Renard: what are you riding now?
Korel Laloix: Was rough on the broken arm for a bit... but I have the strength back now.
Mickorod Renard: ah thats good
Korel Laloix: Back to a Buell blast. I sold the Ninja a while back. It was too much bike for me.
Mickorod Renard: yay, I remember now that you have the Buell
Mickorod Renard: I traded my kwak in for a BMW a few months back
Korel Laloix: It is a great little one person small bike... I want something bigger, but just have not found what I need.
Korel Laloix: Nice.
Tura Brezoianu: time I was going. Be seeing you
Korel Laloix: Sama wants to go riding a bit more.
Korel Laloix: Ciao bella
Mickorod Renard: Bye Tura, thanks for being here
Korel Laloix: But would need something more. Might look at some trices.
Mickorod Renard: I got the Bmw cos its got servo brakes and cruise control , both which will help me with my painful wrist
Mickorod Renard: a trike would be a great option for the two of you
Mickorod Renard: I bet you wont need helmets either on a trike?
Mickorod Renard: and the size wont be an issue either
Korel Laloix: Would still do hemets I think. But yes, will take care of the size issue. Sama is a bit taller than me.
Korel Laloix: And lots more storage for camping and the like.
Mickorod Renard: oh yeh, good point
Mickorod Renard: well, I had better go and relieve my wife with the kids..
Mickorod Renard: give her a few mins break
Mickorod Renard: I will take some piccies and download them on here to show you my bikes
Mickorod Renard: if I can do it..some other week
Mickorod Renard: see you soon,,take care,,byeeee<