2016.05.30 13:00 - TSK: Balloons, Books, Beliefs, and Squiggly Lines

Four Guardians gathered and chatted. Eliza posted this session. :)

Bleu Oleander: hi Tura ... love your balloon arrival :)
Tura Brezoianu: the best way to travel :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza :)
Bleu Oleander: how far did you travel with it?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi! Sorry...had an internet service reset....
Tura Brezoianu: just from a couple of sims away
Bleu Oleander: quite the hat Eliza!!
Tura Brezoianu: it certainly makes a statement!
Eliza Madrigal: :) left over from hat shopping for party, hah
Eliza Madrigal: good to see you both - wonderful project, Tura, meant to say!
Bleu Oleander: I have a few of those myself :)
Tura Brezoianu: thanks!
Bleu Oleander: yes!

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: now will have to ask for tips while piecing something together soon
Eliza Madrigal: what were you two talking about? travel?
Bleu Oleander: Tura arrived today via balloon
Eliza Madrigal: ooh, nice :))
Bleu Oleander: lovely ... just breezing in
Eliza Madrigal first arrived to PaB by balloon

Tura Brezoianu: one of my favorite activites in SL, ballooning over the wide expanses of the mainlands
Bleu Oleander: we used to do that between theatre and pavilion
Bleu Oleander: do you get blocked by certain parcels?
Eliza Madrigal: wonders too
Tura Brezoianu: ban lines and security orbs are annoying
Bleu Oleander: I remember when Storm took us around, we had to avoid certain places
Eliza Madrigal: I was watching your theater machinima just a few days ago, Bleu... you begin in balloon :)
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: what is a security orb?
Bleu Oleander: detects you and warns you to get off
Tura Brezoianu: a device that teleports intruding avatars home
Eliza Madrigal: ah.... see how long it has been since I wandered
Bleu Oleander: you've never encountered one of those?
Bleu Oleander: ha ha!
Eliza Madrigal: I've hit ban lines plenty of times!
Bleu Oleander: I had one that was ejecting me from my own property once
Bleu Oleander: very annoying
Eliza Madrigal: omgoodness
Eliza Madrigal: glitch?
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: had to get the sim owner
Bleu Oleander: met some nice people as a result lol
Eliza Madrigal laughs.... lemonade
Bleu Oleander: yep
Eliza Madrigal: let's see.... have been sailing, dragon riding, horseback riding, surfing...
Eliza Madrigal: skydiving, ballooning...
Eliza Madrigal: oh skiing!
Eliza Madrigal: love SL skiing
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Bleu Oleander: windsurfing
Eliza Madrigal: scuba diving... oh, and took a tour to Mars
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Bleu Oleander: :) we got around in the old days
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Eliza Madrigal: flown by toast....
Eliza Madrigal: almost forgot that one
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Bleu Oleander: coast toast
Eliza Madrigal: :))

Eliza Madrigal: so may be we three today :::looking around::::
Bleu Oleander: small group ... holiday in US
Eliza Madrigal: any luck or thoughts on TSK?
Bleu Oleander: not sure where I am atm :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I am gone without going I think

Bleu Oleander: been reading Merleau-Ponty and finding interesting parallels
Tura Brezoianu must check Merleau-Ponty out from the library
Bleu Oleander: surprisingly easy to follow his thoughts
Bleu Oleander: can I put a rather longish quote up?
Eliza Madrigal: his phenomenology is more embodiment related I think?
Eliza Madrigal: sure!

Bleu Oleander: “Past and future exist all too well in the world, they exist in the present, and what being itself lacks in order to be temporal is the non-being of the elsewhere, of the bygone, and of tomorrow. The objective world is too full for there to be time. Past and future voluntarily withdraw from being and pass over to the side of subjectivity, to seek there not some real support, but rather a possibility of non-being that harmonizes with their nature. If the objective world is detached from the finite perspectives that open onto it, and if it is posited in itself, then all that can be found throughout it are “nows.” Moreover, these nows, not being present to anyone, have no temporal character and could not succeed one another. The definition of time, which is implicit in the comparisons made by common sense and which could be formulated as “a succession of nows,” does not merely commit the error of treating the past and the future as presents: it is in fact inconsistent, since it destroys the very notion of the “now” and the very notion of succession.”

Eliza Madrigal: (brb, son just got home)
Eliza Madrigal catches up
Bleu Oleander: this was interesting too in light of our self discussions, “events are carved out of the spatio-temporal totality of the objective world by a finite observer” “a witness fixed to a certain place in the world”
Eliza Madrigal: making 'events' objects
Eliza Madrigal: have to read the beginning again....

Bleu Oleander: I liked, "what being itself lacks in order to be temporal is the non-being of the elsewhere, of the bygone, and of tomorrow. "
Bleu Oleander: lots of interesting ideas :)
 

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: not connecting yet.... which is weird since usually M-P seems more accessible!
Bleu Oleander: seems very accessible to me but have not finished it yet
Eliza Madrigal nods....
Eliza Madrigal: very interested... prob just takes a minute to sink in :))
Bleu Oleander: yes :)
Bleu Oleander: kinda got stuck in the Phenomenologists and the Existentialists :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))

Bleu Oleander: so after exercise 25, I began to ask myself this question, is this knowledge derived from our experience of the world or simply thought alone? how can we determine if our ideas are a truth about reality?
Eliza Madrigal: and what has floated up so far?
Bleu Oleander: well, I'm still trying to formulate some sort of understanding
Bleu Oleander: our thoughts are real
Bleu Oleander: but what do they tell us about reality or perhaps they simply tell us that we are reality and stop asking those kinds of questions ha ha!
Eliza Madrigal grins. So far, I haven't heard the message to stop asking questions

Tura Brezoianu: Philip Dick said "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stevie! Pretty new hair :)
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles, thanks
Bleu Oleander: yes I like that quote Tura
Bleu Oleander: wow the new stevie
stevenaia Michinaga: just here to listen :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: so many layers of belief....
Eliza Madrigal: I can think of times I withdrew my belief but the residue or maybe what had formed around it, grown with it, took a while to fall away
stevenaia Michinaga: Hi Tura, I think we met once
Bleu Oleander: what belief are you talking about Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: hm, several different sorts....
Eliza Madrigal: maybe the most drastic was deciding to re-think the conception of god I'd been handed down
Eliza Madrigal: that was scary at the time
Bleu Oleander: we have probably all had beliefs that at some time we realized we no longer believed them?
Eliza Madrigal nods... and there can be a step before that
Eliza Madrigal: when you are simply open to questioning
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: that seems easier now about a lot of things
Eliza Madrigal: but, I still remember how hard it was then
Eliza Madrigal: I felt guilt

Bleu Oleander: how do you determine what beliefs to question and/or let go of?
Eliza Madrigal: no formula?
Eliza Madrigal: but when I think of all those steps and between steps I wonder what I'm holding on to
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes it isn't belief maybe but habit
Eliza Madrigal: those two seem close :)
Bleu Oleander: two different concepts
Eliza Madrigal: a habit could be a hidden belief not questioned yet
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: so I wonder about the habits of time
Bleu Oleander listens
Eliza Madrigal: ways of seeing time/taking for granted the ways things happen

Eliza Madrigal: I had a spontaneous exercise this week actually
Eliza Madrigal: I am not sure how well it might translate because it sounds basic but for me felt profound...
Eliza Madrigal: I woke with a pretty compelling need, sparked by a small meditation workshop where I'd been asked about inspiring figures, to write down the people who had most influenced me, especially 'spiritual teachers' or 'spiritual friends' or people who come up again and again.... So I did that, but it started branching out, and soon I had negative figures but from whom I'd learned a lot....
Eliza Madrigal: or something in particular....
Eliza Madrigal: and then that branched.... I was at 60, then 100, then more....
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: and was really astounded. I expected a much smaller number....
Eliza Madrigal: and then I tried to go back to sleep...
Eliza Madrigal: but was woken again to write next to these names, the 'lessons' or strongest impression, etc...
Eliza Madrigal: there were no overlaps. each prominent 'thing learned' was different....
Eliza Madrigal: and then those events and lessons and figures.... now innumerable... seemed to blend in unusual ways

Bleu Oleander: do or did you trust all your lesson-givers?
Eliza Madrigal: connecting and really strangely affecting my sense of time
Eliza Madrigal: and the length of my life
Eliza Madrigal: and the content of my life and 'how' it works
Eliza Madrigal: Certainly not.... there was a negative list....
Eliza Madrigal: but at least in this context I could be thankful for them too
Eliza Madrigal: There was just one name I couldn't....and didn't want to look at
Eliza Madrigal: the events, dreams, 'spiritual' experiences, etc....
Eliza Madrigal: that was the strangest and most interesting, but really, again, it didn't feel personal as much as it unlocked something
Eliza Madrigal: and showed me a different way of seeing time

Eliza Madrigal: okay, done, best I think I can do
Eliza Madrigal: a surprising exercise
Eliza Madrigal: still going on :)
Bleu Oleander: what did it show you about time?
Eliza Madrigal: it was so not linear
Eliza Madrigal: and nonsensical except that it was perfectly sensible
Eliza Madrigal: haha.... am wearing the right hat for that last line
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: lots of trust
Eliza Madrigal: arose
Eliza Madrigal: in the way things are

Bleu Oleander would love to get inside your head for a few minutes lol
Eliza Madrigal laughs.... would make it easier to translate!
Tura Brezoianu: I'm imagining those tentacles rooted in your brain
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Bleu Oleander: its crazy paradox that we can't get into each other in an all knowing way
Bleu Oleander: yes, hooked up via tentacles :)
Eliza Madrigal: when someone shares something though, there is a feeling of relating to oneself, and I imagine that writ large, this exercise might be doable with a group in any interesting way
Eliza Madrigal: not that I'd want to show anyone this list necessarily :)
Eliza Madrigal: but the 'idea' of that is interesting
Bleu Oleander: a bit like CEO's not sharing their books lists :)
Eliza Madrigal grins

Eliza Madrigal: well....what I realized actually...
Eliza Madrigal: is that this was a real experience of my life sketch as an indras net
Eliza Madrigal: I felt like I could see Being and sort of move in
Eliza Madrigal: cause I was there already
Bleu Oleander: very abstract
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: I had a best friend, that when i came back from Colorado at 18, she listened to me go on and on and then said, "I don't know, you're just.... abstract now..." :)
Bleu Oleander: so how do you go about confirming your beliefs?
Bleu Oleander: confirming for yourself that is
Eliza Madrigal: I try not to have too many, first of all
Eliza Madrigal: you?
Bleu Oleander: why?
Eliza Madrigal: because beliefs seem like they have expiration dates
Bleu Oleander: well so do we :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: nothing seems set in stone
Bleu Oleander: always revisable I think?
Eliza Madrigal nods... I guess I have some things that, in my life, I want always to be important
Eliza Madrigal: that I 'like' making my values and priorities
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: so beliefs in values and priorities?
Bleu Oleander: what categories do we take to “really exist” to play a central role in how the world is organized?
Eliza Madrigal: that's a hm.... hard to parse the line between preferences and beliefs in that context
Eliza Madrigal listens for others
Bleu Oleander: well do you believe that values exist in a "real" sense?

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: sorry, don't mean to go on lol
Bleu Oleander sits on hands
Eliza Madrigal: hhaah, no not you
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I think in the context of my society I've chosen values that are appropriate mostly, but sometimes there are the edges of political beliefs I imagine could fall out of favor and be even dangerous in another context, etc
Eliza Madrigal: I wonder about things like that a lot

Tura Brezoianu: I judge the reality of ideas by asking "what would I do differently on account of this?"
Tura Brezoianu: as a way of keeping my feet on the ground
Bleu Oleander: nice question Tura
Tura Brezoianu: or my balloon in the air :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes it is...
Eliza Madrigal: have an example?
Tura Brezoianu: sometimes the answer is "study them some more until I find out"
Tura Brezoianu: :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: am testing out that question... with 'adopting a belief' it seems easier than if dropping one...
Eliza Madrigal: like, what would I do without this?

Eliza Madrigal: really gonna be that quiet Stevie? hehe
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles, happy to listen
Eliza Madrigal: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I tend not to be so reflective
stevenaia Michinaga: so this is very interesting
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: ever see that drawing of how you get from the start of an idea to the real solution, image of a straight line comes to mind... but in reality it;s a very long sqiggly line
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: ooooh yes, hah... like "what the plan is" and "what happens"
stevenaia Michinaga: I walk the sqiggle as my journey
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Eliza Madrigal: sounds like an autobiography title ^^
Bleu Oleander: very squiggly here :)
stevenaia Michinaga: it;s a much more interesting path
Bleu Oleander: I've never met anyone who's path has been straight :)
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, so less "questioning" more acceptance because the framework is there to know you are going in the right direction
Eliza Madrigal: accepting the squiggle ...
Bleu Oleander: I like to question all my squiggles lol
stevenaia Michinaga: enlightenment at every turn, so what does a straight line bring you
Eliza Madrigal: :))
stevenaia Michinaga: right not questions, but always useful information
Eliza Madrigal: makes me think of ice skating and being in the moment and flow...
Eliza Madrigal: yet, some time for choreography happens somewhere?
Bleu Oleander: my skating looks more random in rl, not as choreographed as sl skating :)
Eliza Madrigal: no leaping teddy bears?
Bleu Oleander: a lot of falling down
Eliza Madrigal giggles

stevenaia Michinaga: there is always the underlying sense of direction
Eliza Madrigal: I do feel peaceful when you say that, Stevie
stevenaia Michinaga: well, always in everything
stevenaia Michinaga: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: :)

--BELL--


Eliza Madrigal: am in a questioning place with new meditation group.... since some 'beliefs' have been introduced...
Eliza Madrigal: not like, someone has to believe something...
Eliza Madrigal: but they just came up with one of the leaders
Eliza Madrigal: and now I feel not quite able to communicate mutually
Bleu Oleander: can u share it?
Eliza Madrigal: they are a group called Brahma Kumaris (sp?)
stevenaia Michinaga: well there are always new and interesting belief, hard to close off what others may believe
Eliza Madrigal: and very positive, roots in Hindu philosophy... lovely people
Eliza Madrigal: organization run by women
Eliza Madrigal: peace involvement with movements as part of UN
Eliza Madrigal: so lots I like
Eliza Madrigal: but hm... negative against anything but positive thoughts :)
Eliza Madrigal: which is really 'nice' to be around
Eliza Madrigal: but I'm itchy about it :)
Eliza Madrigal: maybe like, hm, 'raising vibrations' thinking... which is also kind of wonderful. I should relax :)
Tura Brezoianu: I share your itch. :)
Eliza Madrigal: flag?
stevenaia Michinaga: wait to see..... always brings things to you in a more natural and accepting way
Tura Brezoianu: I don't think you can be "up" all the time. Sometimes you're up and sometimes you're down
Eliza Madrigal: this is my feeling... seems not so healthy to divide

Bleu Oleander: is this it? http://www.brahmakumaris.org/us/index_html
Eliza Madrigal: yes that's it
Eliza Madrigal: it might just be the one person's way of explaining her own way with things
Eliza Madrigal: I like that they don't stay out of 'the world' though.... involved with women's empowerment in various countries
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes I feel like Seinfeld though... the way there was always something wrong with the women he dated...lol
Bleu Oleander: thankfully there are many orgs involved with women's empowerments ... about time!
Bleu Oleander: ha ha!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: spoiled by pab
stevenaia Michinaga: :)

Eliza Madrigal: have you always felt fitted well with taoist group Stevie?
stevenaia Michinaga: strangley it like finding good food you were always looking for, but simply didn't realize many were already enjoying it somewhere you never heard of
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: maybe it is you.... okay with squiggly lines :))
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, from to PaB a gym to palaties to yoga to IChing to Tai Chi to taoism, you can't draw that path in advance

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: with buddhism in there for a brief wrong turn
Eliza Madrigal: but lots of things included from the others in each one
stevenaia Michinaga: oh, and SL :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: SL is a pretty special filter
stevenaia Michinaga: each step was perfectly sensible and made with ease
stevenaia Michinaga: except yoga, which was only a painful step
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Eliza Madrigal: I love yoga... but can't seem to not injure myself
Eliza Madrigal: I've been trying different kinds though
stevenaia Michinaga: no injury w/ Tai Chi
stevenaia Michinaga: the saying is Pain... no gain

Eliza Madrigal: Tura, you did tai chi also?
Tura Brezoianu: yes, although I haven't been to a class in a long time
Tura Brezoianu: sometimes do the exercises still
Eliza Madrigal: I do SL Tai Chi ^^
stevenaia Michinaga: to me yoga is sweating (Profusely) while being absolutly still
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: slippery feet in yoga....
Eliza Madrigal: well, Solobill told me years ago to "keep trying shoes til you find the right ones"
stevenaia Michinaga: you can do Tai Chi anytime, anywhere without matts or cute clothing
Eliza Madrigal: we have a tai chi miami group but it is, with traffic, kind of a hassle to get to
Eliza Madrigal: maybe possible to bring someone to the library
Eliza Madrigal: I did learn a little Qi Gong
Eliza Madrigal: but on my own, like most things

stevenaia Michinaga: I have found Ci Gong classes at public librarys while on vacation
Eliza Madrigal: (and all those teachers on the list)
Eliza Madrigal: the library is where I've been going for everything lately
stevenaia Michinaga: Meetup.com will sometimes list such things
Eliza Madrigal: amazing how vibrant they are
Eliza Madrigal nods... and meetups
Bleu Oleander: haven't been to a library in years!
Eliza Madrigal: I had been working in starbucks for years when actually libraries are amazing now
Eliza Madrigal: lots of plugs and classes
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: ASU is going all digital ... books are warehoused now
Eliza Madrigal: wow
Bleu Oleander: they send runners if you actually want the book
Eliza Madrigal: what about ambiance/places to study?
Bleu Oleander: that's still there, but no books
Eliza Madrigal: weird feeling
Bleu Oleander: digital only
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: I checked out 3 cookbooks last week... felt so good
Eliza Madrigal: not sure.... feel a little crotchety about that idea...even though I do like kindle books

Bleu Oleander: I have hundreds of books ... refer to them often ... not sure I could give them up and go all digital
Eliza Madrigal: right?!?
Bleu Oleander: although I have many on my kindles
Eliza Madrigal: and kindle isn't great with books that have lots of footnotes
Eliza Madrigal: switching back and forth
Bleu Oleander: or photos
Eliza Madrigal: yes!
Bleu Oleander: yes me too
Bleu Oleander: or graphs, diagrams etc.
Tura Brezoianu: ebooks are ok for books you're going to read straight through, but not for the sort of book you're going to study, which is most of mine
Eliza Madrigal: yes!
Eliza Madrigal: when you want to go back and forth it isn't as comfortable...
Eliza Madrigal: or to stack a few at a time

Bleu Oleander: getting back to your lists ... my books tell the story of how my mind has undergone its evolution ... important for me in that sense
Eliza Madrigal: indeed, the list has a book list too :)

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: I can pull one out and its takes me right back to the way I was thinking at the time I read it
Eliza Madrigal: and books where the author has felt like more than an author but has jumped out to become a 'being'/friend
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Bleu Oleander: more like an intimate conversation
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: timeless
Bleu Oleander: we are fortunate in that we have met many of those authors in rl
Eliza Madrigal: fortunate indeed, and also focused! :)

stevenaia Michinaga: Non sequitur moment: here's one of those social media links that I thought would be interesting to get in the log. Read it when you are bored.. http://io9.gizmodo.com/5945801/8-phi...ium=socialflow
Eliza Madrigal: :)))
Eliza Madrigal: ty Stevie
Bleu Oleander: have spent time with all those questions!!!
stevenaia Michinaga: nods

Bleu Oleander: wasn't the author in sl for a while?
Eliza Madrigal: oh, yes!
Eliza Madrigal: he was involved in MICA  (wrong)
Eliza Madrigal: good friend of Pema's
stevenaia Michinaga: really?
Eliza Madrigal: yes indeed
Eliza Madrigal: I think he even took over MICA for a while?
Bleu Oleander: maybe mixed up ...
Eliza Madrigal: hm...
Eliza Madrigal: let me see...
Bleu Oleander: reading his bio not the same I think
Eliza Madrigal: thought the last name was a little longer, but if same guy...
Bleu Oleander: yes similar name I think
Eliza Madrigal: George Djorgovski       (right)
Eliza Madrigal: wow really close
Bleu Oleander: yes that's the one
Tura Brezoianu: I googled Dvorsky, and he is, or was, Ge0 Geoffrion in SL
Eliza Madrigal: Oh! So he was in SL too!
Bleu Oleander: oh ok so they both were in sl
Eliza Madrigal: :) overlaps

Eliza Madrigal: 'my' George now has every sock in the house... should go
Bleu Oleander: ok nice to see you all
Eliza Madrigal: nice to spend this time, sorry to chatterbox
Bleu Oleander: far ranging session :)
stevenaia Michinaga: great way so spend vacation time
Eliza Madrigal: fun though
Eliza Madrigal: are you on vacation?
stevenaia Michinaga: see you soon
Bleu Oleander: indeed
Eliza Madrigal: or just holiday?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, holiday
Eliza Madrigal: :) Hugs, and thanks so much
Bleu Oleander: take care friends :)
Bleu Oleander: hugs :)
Tura Brezoianu: goodnight all
Eliza Madrigal: Night Tura :)
Bleu Oleander: nite nite
stevenaia Michinaga: night
Eliza Madrigal: we all look cute
Eliza Madrigal: haha....bye
Bleu Oleander: spoken like a mom