2018.06.07 13:00 - The Hoopoe's Fervour

 

 

Mickorod Renard: hi Eliza

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick :)

Mickorod Renard: looking very pretty

Eliza Madrigal: thank you :))

Mickorod Renard: :)

Mickorod Renard: how r u?

Eliza Madrigal felt like putting my feet into the water

Eliza Madrigal: Quite well thanks, and you?

Mickorod Renard: u know what, i would love to do so in rl at mo

Mickorod Renard: yes, fine ty,,rushed lots
 

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: they have me back at my old school again 2 days a week

Eliza Madrigal: aha, I told you :)

Mickorod Renard: :)

Eliza Madrigal: I'm sure you do a great deal of good there

Mickorod Renard: only had 3 lessons today..5 tomor

Mickorod Renard: well, I take the heat away

Eliza Madrigal: Is this for summer, or into the fall as well?

Mickorod Renard: they can throw me in anywhere

Mickorod Renard: not sure, playing it week by week,,but I recon up to summer hols

Eliza Madrigal: :)

 

Eliza Madrigal: People are lagging today

Mickorod Renard: I am cheaper than paying an agency for a supply teacher

Eliza Madrigal nods, makes sense

Mickorod Renard: yes, I hope I didnt put folks off on Monday

Eliza Madrigal: And I think it actually isn't that easy to find people one enjoys working with/around

Eliza Madrigal: I'm sure it isn't you. What could have put anyone off?

Mickorod Renard: I do ask or challenge sometimes

Eliza Madrigal: I'm caught up to the point of the end of Bruce's audio.

Mickorod Renard: ah great

Eliza Madrigal: Went in a possibly interesting direction, if you want to hear

Mickorod Renard: I do not have much to say since Monday as I haven't realy had much time

Mickorod Renard: yes please?

 

 

Eliza Madrigal: Since it is just us I won't feel guilty posting such a long report :)

Eliza Madrigal: standby...

Mickorod Renard: ok

 

Eliza Madrigal: Have been thinking about some of the questions and complaints that have come up around these readings, switching out scenarios in my mind, looking for a bridge that feels sturdy enough to walk completely across --

Eliza Madrigal: and not finding one, partly because one considers every person attending these sessions along with the very unique things each connects with and finds inspiration in. With that feeling, I sort of gave up scanning for that.

Eliza Madrigal: Then, just a few hours ago, I found myself thinking about a session Riddle, Storm and Adams had, the content of which is very difficult to absorb... meaningful and painful, bringing attention to the plight of disenfranchised (a criminally tame word in this context).

Eliza Madrigal: It was “The Cross and the Lynching Tree” (links will be at the end).

Eliza Madrigal: And I thought, people who take on mantels for their generations, who put their lives on the line for social justice/causes, are also working to embody transcendent callings. They may not know it at first, when they are moved to write or speak, but some do. Some know they are risking everything, also that they may never see the fruits of their labors.

Eliza Madrigal: For the moment, this feels like a sturdier bridge to me than my attempts to make an analogy out of needle's eye space ships. :)

Eliza Madrigal: There are lines all throughout the text that do shine with painfully high aspiration, and longings that can't be ignored. Sometimes it feels as though the hoopoe is trying to **make** the other birds have the longing, which falls flat as compared with someone like Rumi who also can be bossy about the importance of giving up the shallow for the deep.

Eliza Madrigal: (session and blog links: https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2018/05/2018.05.15_07%3a00_-_Lynchings , https://rubblebornthoughts.wordpress...of-these-1138/ ) [done]

 

 

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Tura :)

Tura Brezoianu: Hi Eliza, Mick

Mickorod Renard: Hi Tura

Mickorod Renard: wow, I am so touched by that Eliza

Eliza Madrigal: yes? so it doesn't feel a stretch to you?

Mickorod Renard: please do, I also find the way you write so ..moving and meaningful

Mickorod Renard: thank you

Eliza Madrigal: thank *you* Mick

Tura Brezoianu: Thanks Eliza

Eliza Madrigal: sometimes I find it hard to converse about the topics raised in these sessions in a few lines, but I appreciate that you've been asking deep questions

Mickorod Renard: well, I feel like I have held back on questions so as to meet somewhere in the middle

Eliza Madrigal: oh?

 

 

Mickorod Renard: but also as i see myself as a facilitator not a guide

Mickorod Renard: I think to be a guide I would have to have had some prior knowledge on the subject

Eliza Madrigal:if you played as guide, what would you ask?

Mickorod Renard: phew, thats a tough one on the spot

Eliza Madrigal smiles, no pressure ^.^

Mickorod Renard: grin

Mickorod Renard: I think I would be asking everyone to reveal what really counts to them

Mickorod Renard: far too personal

Mickorod Renard: because I think we have constructed a story for ourselves, and maybe feel comfortable but 

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: not quite sincere as we may know we want something else

Eliza Madrigal: deep territory

Mickorod Renard: so I see the book as a medium for self diagnosis(maybe wrong word) to reflect on

Mickorod Renard: but then, I only have my own thoughts to play with

Eliza Madrigal: "Some invitations sound like the fowler's whistle to the quail, friendly, but not quite how you remember the call of your soul's friend." - Rumi
 

Mickorod Renard: I would like to devote myself to helping others in need, but i also like my comforts

Eliza Madrigal: Each seems needed, for a long journey?

Mickorod Renard: he he , yes for sure Eliza

Mickorod Renard: This experience, with this book..reminds me in a small way of trips I took part in many years ago

Mickorod Renard: I was well travelled as a kid

Mickorod Renard: my parents took me overseas and driving over europe

Mickorod Renard: when i became mobile myself, I found lots of people wanting to come along

Mickorod Renard: on motorcycles

Mickorod Renard: with partners

Mickorod Renard: I had a goal, well stated

Mickorod Renard: how hard the trip would be, the duration and the weather and so forth

Mickorod Renard: but a short way into the trip , I found that individual desires started to reveal

Agatha Macbeth: Here I am

Mickorod Renard: it was fun to observe

Eliza Madrigal: What kinds of desires? Yours? Others?

Mickorod Renard: Hi Ags

Mickorod Renard: mine were always revealed at the start

Mickorod Renard: but i found it hard to get others to say

Mickorod Renard: some wanted to stop in mountains, others to skip mountains and get to the beach

Mickorod Renard: he he

 

Mickorod Renard: I have felt like the hoopoe before

Agatha Macbeth: Before what?

Eliza Madrigal: probably some didn't know what they wanted until after

Mickorod Renard: yes, but everyone needed to stay together as they didnt have the nerve to go it alone

Mickorod Renard: didnt want me to abandon them, yet couldnt reveal what they wanted me to deliver

 

--BELL--

 

Mickorod Renard: I think the Hoopoe is saying that you cant buy what is on offer you have to get it yourself

Mickorod Renard: or something like that

Eliza Madrigal: people, including 'me', often seem like bundles of intentions and desires and ideas (and selves?), and situations bring different ones forth

Mickorod Renard: they do, when eager to explore the unknown how can anyone pre determine what they will want to stop and observe

Eliza Madrigal: there is so much dormant and maybe hoopoe tries to speak to that which it finds deepest and thinks will bring about the most satisfaction

 

Mickorod Renard: it is interesting that there is no mention that the birds took a choice to ask to do the trip, its more like they are talked into it

Eliza Madrigal: but at the beginning don't they think they want to be like the hoopoe?

Mickorod Renard: however, the story is supposed to be based on a guide and his followers, or disciples

Mickorod Renard: yes, i think you are right, they like the sound of hoopoe and his adventures

 

 

Tura Brezoianu: It started with them wanting a king

Eliza Madrigal: ah, thank you... what was the king to provide?

Tura Brezoianu: which I take to symbolize the yearning for God by those who don't yet recognise it.

Mickorod Renard: in rl don't we often look to find someone who offers excitement and adventure?

Mickorod Renard: or a fall guy..he he

Eliza Madrigal: I like that... makes sense to me. So a recognition that needs or wants to come forth.

Tura Brezoianu: The birds want something, and the hoopoe teaches them what it is they are really yearning for.

Eliza Madrigal: 'guardians of the void'

Tura Brezoianu: Sounds like the title of a sci-fi novel

Eliza Madrigal: Sort of.... it is a picture someone gave to Pema early on, of a raven. That's what she titled it... with a sense of what PaB guardians were protecting and maybe, bringing forward...

 

Mickorod Renard: Tura, do you think that perhaps after having all the fun and excitement, in the story at least..the realization comes that beyond the self the ultimate find is that of God?

Eliza Madrigal: https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Guardian_Pages/Guardians'_Contributions/Eliza/Guardians_of_the_Void

Tura Brezoianu: That's what happens at the end of the story

Mickorod Renard: ah,

Eliza Madrigal: Does it end at the wedding?

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Tura Brezoianu: when they reach the Simorgh and see themselves

Eliza Madrigal: (so many stories end at the wedding, like 'aha' we've arrived)
 

Mickorod Renard: I might be working towards that..my garage is full of discarded boys toys, I am getting fed up with now

Eliza Madrigal: those things may be in service to your asprations though, mick

Mickorod Renard: like i said last week, my values and interests have changed

Eliza Madrigal: you have little ones who may like to see everything, unless I'm misunderstanding what boys toys are ;-)

Mickorod Renard: I am sort of saying grown up toys
 

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: but I dont get a kick out of them now

Agatha Macbeth: Mere alcohol doesn't thrill me at all        [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueIRPDAbPNY ]

Mickorod Renard: but that changes my view also, and I become cynical observing folk putting so much emphasis on trivia

Mickorod Renard: trivia to me, but not them, i understand this

Mickorod Renard: and of course God is trivia if non existant

Eliza Madrigal has one more small quote, this one from Joni Mitchell ...

Eliza Madrigal: "But along with developing my superficial side, I always nurtured a deeper longing, so even when I was falling into the trap of that other kind of love, I was hip to what I was doing."

Mickorod Renard: yes, i must admit to feeling like a duel personality

Eliza Madrigal: maybe that's like having one's lamps burning (Biblical analogy)

Eliza Madrigal: so there is readiness to answer the deeper calls

 

 

Mickorod Renard: I took a trip down to the lapdance bar the other night and got a shot of oxitocin..I think

Eliza Madrigal: didn't see that line coming, lol

Mickorod Renard: it felt like it..but I am supposed to feel bad about it

Mickorod Renard: :)

Mickorod Renard: I don't know Eliza, re deeper calls. I am leaving it too late

Eliza Madrigal: I don't know either :)

Mickorod Renard: and, like the birds, there is so much doubt

Mickorod Renard: and lack of commitment
 

Eliza Madrigal: I feel like I've lost something in letting go of a certain testimonial mindset that used to be woven into my thinking so deeply

Mickorod Renard: woah, I have to try and get into that Eliza

Mickorod Renard: how do you mean?

Eliza Madrigal: it isn't that one loses devotion, but it feels so changed that it is hard to conjure the urge to convince of things

Mickorod Renard: you mean extra knowledge has liberated your thoughts?

Eliza Madrigal: not exactly... but I think one thing that there is in a text like this is that the longing is toward a kind of redemption

Eliza Madrigal: and I want to keep the longing and openness, without expecting the picture of redemption as needed

Mickorod Renard: I love how you still know the abapb stuff, I have to remind myself that much of what we think is a construct

Mickorod Renard: which in a way makes me more inclined to hold onto a notion of a God as it feels outside the effect of playing with ideas

Mickorod Renard: if you get what I mean

Eliza Madrigal: few who use the word god mean it the same way... maybe it is healthy knowing that

Eliza Madrigal: so that it never loses freshness

 

--BELL--

 

Mickorod Renard: I think this is what the human brain is designed to do, when the depth of either complexity of confusion is too much to handle..a regular feeling for me

Mickorod Renard: I meant, Think of God

Agatha Macbeth: Need to run folks - have fun

 

 

Tura Brezoianu: I don't believe in any of the supernatural stuff, so when I read a text like this, I am always asking, what real experiences is the text talking about?

Mickorod Renard: kk Ags

Eliza Madrigal: bye Agatha :)

Tura Brezoianu: bye Ag

Eliza Madrigal: yes good question... since what seems supernatural to one may seem real to another?

Mickorod Renard: yes, great question

Eliza Madrigal: I try to put myself in the shoes of someone who has never had the transcendent experiences, but it isn't easy since it defined a lot for me

Mickorod Renard: I love it when the grandkids go on about ghosts etc..so easy to dismiss their fears

Tura Brezoianu: One person can have a revelatory experience and interpret it as a vision of God, and another can have the same thing happen and distrust it.

Eliza Madrigal: yes!

Mickorod Renard: very true Tura

Tura Brezoianu: Who can say which is right, without getting the experience themselves?
 

Mickorod Renard: when I had some odd experiences I was very dismissive

Eliza Madrigal: I had the experience of having very specific revelation and it changing later, but only in the content of the visions, not the experience of the experiences

Mickorod Renard: did it change as you found a more reasonable explanation for it Eliza?

Mickorod Renard: of a deeper one?

Eliza Madrigal: it gives me a lot of compassion for people who fear to question because I didn't want to risk losing that kind of 'bigness' and feeling of calling either

Eliza Madrigal: I'm still working with it Mick :)

Mickorod Renard: I guess I am with mine too Eliza :)

Mickorod Renard: in fact, it is the reason I cannot let it go

Eliza Madrigal: many years ago I would have secretly thought that someone who expressed having no experience like that, and no need to have that, was not quite as advanced, lol

Mickorod Renard: even if its an integran mechanism its still special

Mickorod Renard: I think I get what you mean Eliza

Eliza Madrigal: I wonder now if not needing or seeking such things is much healthier
 

Mickorod Renard: I do harbour a resignation which feels healthy

Eliza Madrigal: to be honest my answer is probably 'both and and'

Tura Brezoianu: I don't think I've had any "weird shit" in my life. Always interested, but I can't bring the hoopoe's fervour to it.

Mickorod Renard: but also feel that i may not be apreciating as much by staying un..educated

Eliza Madrigal: Maybe we can take a PaB ayuaska(sp?) trip [kidding]

Mickorod Renard: un educated in the field i am looking at

Eliza Madrigal: resignation, Mick?

Mickorod Renard: yes, like accepting

Mickorod Renard: without question

Eliza Madrigal: enjoying the ride?

Mickorod Renard: yet in this book there is a suggestion that one should always we asking and looking

Mickorod Renard: yes, i am enjoying a sort of ride but then that also feels like some un deserved ego

Eliza Madrigal: I feel there is a place for both magic and reason, but not sure where lap dances fit into that :)

Eliza Madrigal: we "contain multitudes"

Mickorod Renard: grin, its a bit like treating oneself to an icecream..occasionally

Mickorod Renard: it helps my art

Eliza Madrigal: :) just teasing you, everyone has to find their own balances

 

Mickorod Renard: I have just done a naked woman on a cross, dali style

Eliza Madrigal: oh my

 

--BELL--

 

Mickorod Renard: I will send a copy but its not finnished yet

Eliza Madrigal: when you do something like that, do you have a clear story that inspires it?

Mickorod Renard: strangely enough, the wife doesnt normally comment on my paintings but she did this one

Eliza Madrigal: how did she feel about it?

Mickorod Renard: I think several things came together..the moment right..but afterwards I wondered whether to make the cross bleed

Mickorod Renard: still pondering that

Mickorod Renard: she was positive..I feel frus sometimes cos she never says anything about them..leaving me deflated

Eliza Madrigal nods, but maybe better than conjuring a comment... since you know that when she does it is meaningful

Mickorod Renard: I only took up my brushes again after I felt inspired to paint mary magdelene

Eliza Madrigal: those can be transcendent experiences too... artists being absorbed into the mystery and coming out to see what happened :)

Mickorod Renard: which drives me to find perfection in it

 

 

 

Eliza Madrigal: btw, please forgive me for asking *again* but what version are we reading now, to get to the end?

Mickorod Renard: ah ok

Mickorod Renard: i have

Mickorod Renard: penguin classics

Mickorod Renard: translated by

Mickorod Renard: darbandi and davis

Eliza Madrigal: Okay. I think I may try to finish this weekend, to have a better sense. I believe that's one of the versions I have, so we'll see.

Mickorod Renard: The conference of the birds

 

Eliza Madrigal: I'm intrigued by Tura's line about reaching god then seeing themselves (paraphrasing)

Mickorod Renard: farid ud din attar

Tura Brezoianu: That's the one I have (second edition, that includes prologue and epilogue)

Mickorod Renard: yes, I keep asking myself about that

Eliza Madrigal: will harness momentum :)) thank you

Mickorod Renard: I wondered whether it just meant we only have ourselves

Eliza Madrigal: reflections seeing themselves together as god?

Mickorod Renard: maybe we are alone?

Eliza Madrigal: 'both and' lol

 

Mickorod Renard: maybe through what we pass our conciousness is part of a oneness

Eliza Madrigal: I will take back everything I said about the hoopoe if he shows us that

Mickorod Renard: and we are blind to seeing it all

 

Mickorod Renard: but I had better go before I blow a fuse

Eliza Madrigal: :) I need to go too, but thanks for this session

Mickorod Renard: I can feel my brain sizzling

Mickorod Renard: thankyou all, very much

Eliza Madrigal: thanks Tura

Tura Brezoianu: thank you

Eliza Madrigal: thanks Mick

Eliza Madrigal: happy weekend :))

Mickorod Renard: and for your fantastic piece Eliza

Mickorod Renard: bye folks

Mickorod Renard: thanks Tura

Tura Brezoianu: bye all

Mickorod Renard: byeeeee