2015.04.07 13:00 - Friendship and forgiving

The Guardian for this meeting was Darren Islar. The comments are by Darren Islar.

Quite a few people attended today on our first day into a new PaB-era. With thanks to Bleu and Wol for making a discussion possible, with a new temporary pavilion and the recorder already in place.

To make this more readable I made the parts of saying hello's, the inbetweens and fun grey, so it's easy to read the theme.

Darren Islar: 's current display-name is "leaping Panther".
Darren Islar: hey Elan
ElanVitalo Resident: 's current display-name is "Elan".
ElanVitalo Resident: Hey!
Catrinamonblue Resident: 's current display-name is "Catrinamonblue".
Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
Bleu Oleander: hi all
Darren Islar: hey Bleu and Cat
Darren Islar: and there is Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: 's current display-name is "Bruce".
Bleu Oleander: Wol placed the recorder there
Bleu Oleander: so we're temporarily set up
ElanVitalo Resident: NICE!
Darren Islar: with! recording tool!!
Bleu Oleander: yep
Catrinamonblue Resident: wow cool cushions :)
Bleu Oleander: so this pavilion is just temporary
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Bleu Oleander: we will accept designs for a new one
--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: so I hope you are all inspired!
Darren Islar: hehe
Bleu Oleander: so maybe we will start to see them next week?
Bleu Oleander: in the mean time we have this
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Tura
Darren Islar: hi Tura
Darren Islar: don't mind me, I'm tired
Tura Brezoianu: Hello. I've not been here before, but I'm curious in what PaB is about
ElanVitalo Resident: :)
Bruce Mowbray: PaB is about transioning at the moment, actually.

Friendship

Darren Islar: okay, anyone like to talk about something, some topic
Bruce Mowbray: transitioning*
Darren Islar: no-one?
Darren Islar: what about Friendship?
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm.
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bruce Mowbray listens for more.
ElanVitalo Resident: so does Elan.
ShinjuJin Resident: 's current display-name is "真珠".
Darren Islar: what is it we need in friends, what makes us call somebody a friend, what's the difference with an acqutance
Darren Islar: no idea how you write that :) (acquaintance Darren, acquaintance)
Bleu Oleander: hey Shin
ShinjuJin Resident: Hiya :)
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Shin-ji.
Darren Islar: hey Shin
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Shin :)
ElanVitalo Resident: Hello, Shin.
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Qt!
ShinjuJin Resident: Hi Qt :)
Qt Core: Hi all!
Darren Islar: hey QT
ElanVitalo Resident: Hello, Qt.
Catrinamonblue Resident: friendship for me is about acceptance...
Catrinamonblue Resident: to be accepted as me warts and all
ElanVitalo Resident just nioticed that this cushion's animation won't let him wave.
ElanVitalo Resident: noticed*
ShinjuJin Resident: the topic is friendship?
Darren Islar: acceptance
Bruce Mowbray agrees with Cat -- but adds "conviviality" to the mix... and similarity of interests.
ShinjuJin Resident: ty
Darren Islar: yes, what is it which makes a friend a friend of yours
Qt Core: borderline insanity ;-)
Darren Islar: what part of you needs acceptance? I take it you don't want friends to be uncritical
Bruce Mowbray: !!
Catrinamonblue Resident: no but I have been in a relationship with unrealistic expectations of me,
Bruce Mowbray thinks, Haven't we all?
Catrinamonblue Resident: and the hurt and resentment destroyed the relationship
Bruce Mowbray nods, agrees.
Catrinamonblue Resident: along with acceptance, Honesty is another big one, on both sides of the equation
Darren Islar: grins, my girlfriends tells me that sometimes I shouldn't be too honest
ShinjuJin Resident: :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Criticism (honest and constructive) is fine, but judgmentalism is not.
Catrinamonblue Resident: I don't mind being told I'm behaving badly when I am... sometimes that brings to my attention my bad behavior
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Wol.
Darren Islar: expectations is an interesting point ....
Bleu Oleander: hey Wol
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Wol :)
ElanVitalo Resident: Hello, Wol.
ShinjuJin Resident: a balance to give 'feedback' and still have the other know you are on their side
Darren Islar: hey Wol
ShinjuJin Resident: Hi Wol :)
Wol Euler: evening all
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes Shin :)
Darren Islar: because that says something about yourself as well as a friend
Wol Euler: wlecome to the new playgoda :) with thanks to Bleu
Bleu Oleander: and you :)
Darren Islar: nods to Shin
ShinjuJin Resident: Oooh just now noticing recorder is here :)) ty
Darren Islar: YES
Wol Euler smiles.
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Darren Islar: thanks to Wol I think
Wol Euler smiles modestly.
Xirana Oximoxi: 's current display-name is "Xirana".
Darren Islar: hey Xira
ShinjuJin Resident: Hi Xiri :)
Qt Core: (speaking about this playgoda i like how easy is to cam around, wonder if it is only lack of forniture ;-) )
Darren Islar: it is
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Xirana Oximoxi: hello everyone! :)
ShinjuJin Resident: yeah, the space is nice
Bleu Oleander: hi Xiri :)
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Bleu:)
--BELL--
ShinjuJin Resident: maybe giving feedback is a very trusted and special position
Darren Islar: Shin said: a balance to give 'feedback' and still have the other know you are on their side
Tura Brezoianu: Friends are people we can trust to tell us about ourselves.
Wol Euler smiles.
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes :)
Darren Islar: being allowed to give feedback tells something about your relationship yes
ShinjuJin Resident smiles too
ShinjuJin Resident: and re "too honest" sometimes we think we can accept feedback but it is harder in practice, coming from someone we are vulnerable too
ShinjuJin Resident: some kinds maybe better given by employers etc :)
Wol Euler nods.
Darren Islar: grins
Wol Euler: too often the comment feeds into and amplifies our already harsh internal critic
ShinjuJin Resident: that's it
Darren Islar: you mean becoming more critical of yourself because of it Wol?
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
Wol Euler: I mean that humans tend to judge ourselves very harshly anyway. If we receive even gentle and well-meant correction att a time when we are suffering from abuse from the internal critic, that comment from outside is easily taken to be confirming the critic's harshness
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Wol Euler: rather then for the harmless and friendly note that it is meant to be
Darren Islar: yes
Bruce Mowbray: like an echo-chamber....
Wol Euler: oh, I wonder if the bell is missing too
Wol Euler: looks like it is
Darren Islar: it is
Wol Euler: have to work up something for that, this week
Wol Euler makes a note
ShinjuJin Resident: ty!
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
Darren Islar: I will say 'bel'
Wol Euler: and I'll say "canto" heheheh
Darren Islar: grins
Wol Euler: ah, where's Aph when we need her
Catrinamonblue Resident: playing with her house :)
Xirana Oximoxi: it's fun to build a new house :)
Wol Euler smiles.
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Darren Islar: yes it is
ElanVitalo Resident hums songs of appreciation to himself.
Catrinamonblue Resident: needs to go house hunting too ;)
Darren Islar: so friendship might say more about ourselves than about the other one
ShinjuJin Resident: every relationship is so unique
Wol Euler: our response to any stimulus always says more about us than about it IMO
Bruce Mowbray notices we didn't drop at the 15 minute after the hour point.
Bruce Mowbray totally agrees with Wol on that one.
Darren Islar: vulnerability, taking criticism, high expectations in which you can become disappointed ... yes Wol, indeed
Wol Euler says things about and to herself htat she would not say to her worst enemy (if she had one)
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods - same
Aphrodite Macbain: 's current display-name is "Aph".
Darren Islar: there si Aph, if you need her :)
ShinjuJin Resident: Hi Aph :)
Wol Euler: hello aph
Xirana Oximoxi: same happens to me
Darren Islar: hi Aph
Bruce Mowbray: /mr agrees with Wol again!
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Aph! :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: Heya
Bleu Oleander: wow may need more cushions!
ElanVitalo Resident: Hello, Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: this is so nice!
ShinjuJin Resident: so part of friendship is knowing that the other has the same mocking voice at times
Darren Islar: it's an interesting point, being our own criticaster
Xirana Oximoxi: hehe yes! that's great! :)
Darren Islar: which brings us back to acceptance Shin
ShinjuJin Resident nods
Aphrodite Macbain: yikes
ShinjuJin Resident: oh! what happened lol
Darren Islar: what happens?
Aphrodite Macbain: did someone play the trumpet?
Bleu Oleander: lol
Xirana Oximoxi: lol..:)
Bleu Oleander: sorry
ShinjuJin Resident: love it
Bleu Oleander: ok as you were
ShinjuJin Resident giggles
Wol Euler: what just happened?
ShinjuJin Resident: we are at your command, Bleu?
Darren Islar: if you want me to sit in a different way, you could have said so Bleu ;)
Aphrodite Macbain salutes
ShinjuJin Resident: hahah
Bleu Oleander: lol
Aphrodite Macbain: giggles
Bleu Oleander: sorry
Aphrodite Macbain loves these cushions
Darren Islar: it was fun :)
ShinjuJin Resident: we can all be ejected at once
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bleu Oleander: was making more and ejected all of you lol
Bruce Mowbray: Mick!
Darren Islar: everyone here get up ... NOW!
Bleu Oleander: hey Mick
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Mick
ShinjuJin Resident: Hi Mick :)
ElanVitalo Resident: Hello, Mick.
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Mick :)
Darren Islar: hey Mick
Wol Euler: hello mick
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Mick :)
Xirana Oximoxi: completed round :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Folks
ShinjuJin Resident: an alternative to onigokko, for waking everyone up
Wol Euler: and yay, first full circle in the new place
ShinjuJin Resident: :::yay:::::
Darren Islar: yep
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: onigokko!
Aphrodite Macbain: forgot that
Darren Islar: everyone is curious I suppose
--BELL--
ShinjuJin Resident: new start - nice to come together
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I was so busy planting trees I almost forgot
Darren Islar: DROP BELL!
Bruce Mowbray: ty, lp.
Darren Islar: and .... breath out
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
ShinjuJin Resident: :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Wol Euler: ding.
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: (!)
Darren Islar: thank you Wol :)
Wol Euler: as long as I am planning to script a bell, do we like regular-as-clockwork 15 minutes, or randomish roughly quarter-hours?
ShinjuJin Resident: hm, never thought about that
Wol Euler: nor I until just now :)
Bleu Oleander: randomish could be nice
Darren Islar: randomly might be good
Bleu Oleander: more like rl
Catrinamonblue Resident: random :)
ShinjuJin Resident: might be interesting, although sometimes it is nice to predict if doing a more intentional kind of exploration
Wol Euler: true, hard to hold a formal discussin with random times
ShinjuJin Resident: but I'm game to try!
Wol Euler: hmmmm
Wol Euler: okay, I'll set up that semi-randomish, say not less than 12 minutes but not more than 18, with regression to the mean
Qt Core: to be able to say... i was hit by a sudden meditation...
ShinjuJin Resident: hah
Catrinamonblue Resident: lol
Wol Euler grins.
Mickorod Renard: :)
Darren Islar: grins
Aphrodite Macbain: 's current display-name is "Aph".
Wol Euler: wb aph
Xirana Oximoxi: wb Aph! :)
Darren Islar: wb Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks :-)
ShinjuJin Resident: maybe the trickiness of feedback is one reason why sangha is thought to be a particular type of friendship/community
Darren Islar: can you elaborate on that shin?
ShinjuJin Resident: was thinking that there is a reason for sangha, seeking not just comfort of the others but betterment within a context of awareness and sensitivity...something like that
ElanVitalo Resident ponders embracing...
Aphrodite Macbain: emotional support?
ShinjuJin Resident: on a person level I may comfort my friend, but as a spiritual friend I may ask what they are uniquely aspiring to and speak to that - guess it isn't just sangha but particular
Darren Islar: the seek for betterment might be the key here
ElanVitalo Resident: ... embracing by contexts... and folks within them.
ShinjuJin Resident nods
Wol Euler nods.
Aphrodite Macbain: (((everybody here)))
Mickorod Renard: a common trust in all contexts between members of the sangha?
Mickorod Renard: I am here
ShinjuJin Resident: (((( we are here )))))
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: indeed
Bleu Oleander: we are "we" where ever we are :)
ElanVitalo Resident nods.
Catrinamonblue Resident: smiles
ShinjuJin Resident: :)
Darren Islar: yes, but not a trust that is supposed to be taken as normal .. it needs constant work
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
ShinjuJin Resident nods... lots of openness
Catrinamonblue Resident: every relationship begins with forgiveness every day.......
Darren Islar: interesting thing is, you can give up on a friend, you can't give up on a sangha-member
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
ShinjuJin Resident: nice, Cat. preforgiveness
ShinjuJin Resident: "benefit of the doubt"
Catrinamonblue Resident: I tend not to give up on friends... sometimes they walk away but I don't give up on them
Mickorod Renard: I havnt got any...he he
ShinjuJin Resident: and sometimes they walk away and come back
Aphrodite Macbain: hmmm
ShinjuJin Resident: yeah sure Mick, :P
Bleu Oleander: brb
ShinjuJin Resident: like Bleu is doing...
Aphrodite Macbain: wb Qt
Catrinamonblue Resident: wb Qt :)
Wol Euler: wb qt
ShinjuJin Resident: wb Qt :)
Darren Islar: wb QT
Qt Core: ty
Darren Islar: what made your eyebrow raise Wol?
Wol Euler: [13:41] leaping Panther (darren.islar): interesting thing is, you can give up on a friend, you can't give up on a sangha-member
Wol Euler: that
Wol Euler: is it true?
Darren Islar: the first or the last part?
Wol Euler: the latter
Aphrodite Macbain: sangha members are friends
ShinjuJin Resident: that's the standard - entering the sangha you place personal grievances second (or aim to)
ShinjuJin Resident: or third.. fourth...
Aphrodite Macbain: as with friendship
ShinjuJin Resident: :)
--BELL--
Wol Euler nods.
Mickorod Renard: I seem to recall the wok becoming a sangha and then it collapsing shortly afterwards
Darren Islar: to me not necessarily and I guess you can avoid one and another, but ... by pledge you are sort of married with each other
Aphrodite Macbain: wok?
Mickorod Renard: ways of knowing
Aphrodite Macbain: ah
ShinjuJin Resident: it did, and pab did/does have that sort of intention
Aphrodite Macbain: I was getting hungry
Darren Islar: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: bell :)
Aphrodite Macbain: dingggggg
Darren Islar: (ty)
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Aphrodite Macbain listens to the sound of the cricket and wonders where it's coming from
Wol Euler smiles modestly.
Aphrodite Macbain: Wlly cricket?
Aphrodite Macbain: Wolly
Darren Islar: I think we can breath again
Bruce Mowbray: ahhhh!
Wol Euler: cricket and birds
Aphrodite Macbain: nice
Darren Islar: I need to say that what I think is a sangha, may not be what everybody feel is a sangha
Catrinamonblue Resident: Just stepping back to something else for a moment......no one is perfect, we all fall flat on our faces, we all hurt ourselves and others unintentionally. Forgiveness is key in my mind..... and sometimes it's needed every day.......
Darren Islar: I agree
Catrinamonblue Resident: sry Darren
Mickorod Renard: I may have come a little late in the topic,,is there a topic?
Darren Islar: np
Catrinamonblue Resident: sits on hands and listens
Darren Islar: Friendship
Mickorod Renard: the more I look at forgivness the more I realize I cant do it
Aphrodite Macbain: never Mick?
Wol Euler looks at Mick curiously.
Darren Islar: I think it is a good point to make Cat ... forgiveness is a daily thing and as Wol has been implying I guess, not just for others, but as well as for ourselves
Mickorod Renard: I can let things drop
Aphrodite Macbain: self compassion
Aphrodite Macbain: why?
ShinjuJin Resident nods Aph
ShinjuJin Resident: we can't really know if we've forgiven until tested
Darren Islar: Forgivemess is a hard thing I agree
ShinjuJin Resident: but we can aspire
Catrinamonblue Resident: true that which is why I say it's something you renew every day
Aphrodite Macbain: Life is simpler if we do
Darren Islar: but what makes you feel that way Mick?
ShinjuJin Resident nods
Bruce Mowbray ponders "If the person KNEW better, he/she would DO better...." meanwhile, forgiveness will get us both through this.
Mickorod Renard: yeh, what i mean is,,when I try and forgive it reminds me I am doing it for myself
Aphrodite Macbain: that's a good thing isnt it?
Bruce Mowbray: You are, indeed, Mick.
Darren Islar: is there something we do without involving ourselves?
Mickorod Renard: but i dont need anything,,just an end
Mickorod Renard: or fresh beginning
Catrinamonblue Resident: but nothing ever ends.... life moves on forever
Aphrodite Macbain: even when we're dead
ShinjuJin Resident: ...coming around again...
Mickorod Renard: true, so to me its a drop
ShinjuJin Resident: (Wol hears crickets I hear Cary Simon)
ShinjuJin Resident: Carly*
Darren Islar: so because it never ends, you let go?
Xirana Oximoxi: I go now...have a nice evening all! :)
ShinjuJin Resident: bye Xiri :)
Darren Islar: bye Xira
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Xir!
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Xiri :)
Bleu Oleander: bye Xiri :)
Aphrodite Macbain: bye Xiri sleep well
Qt Core: bye Xir
Xirana Oximoxi: bye :)
Wol Euler: bye xir
ShinjuJin Resident: isn't it easier to forgive when you've made big mistakes yourself, or realize you have?
Mickorod Renard: actually I can forgive..my grandchildren..but thats their innocence so its diferent
ShinjuJin Resident: there is a certain capacity
Aphrodite Macbain: what makes it hard to forgivev?
Aphrodite Macbain: as I child I remember trying to stay angry- replaying the hurt inside my head
Aphrodite Macbain: not sure why
ShinjuJin Resident: interesting Aph
Wol Euler listens.
Bleu Oleander: must slip out ... thank you all ... nice to see everyone here today :)
Aphrodite Macbain: anger was my strength
Darren Islar: bye Bleu
ShinjuJin Resident: thanks Bleu!
Bleu Oleander: take care
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Blue and thank yoou for so much
Mickorod Renard: I dont think its hard so much as I prefer to call it something else. like its an experience
ElanVitalo Resident: bye!
Wol Euler: bye bleu, thank you
Bleu Oleander: bye
Mickorod Renard: bye Bleu
Qt Core: bye bleu
Darren Islar: that's interesting Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: Anger gave me power...
Aphrodite Macbain: and motivation
Aphrodite Macbain: weird
Aphrodite Macbain: there was even a pleasure in not forgiving
ShinjuJin Resident: something to prove?
Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps
Darren Islar: and I'm not sure what you try to say Mick ... are you saying you hold a grudge to people till the end of time, or are you making it in something different so you can deal with it?
--BELL--
Mickorod Renard: I think I am trying to resolve it even now..I dont like to hold a grudge..but once bitten I may remember forever..even so I am likely to not judge anyone worse than myself for my own humanity
ShinjuJin Resident: ah, I see
Darren Islar: now I start to get you
Wol Euler: oh but forgive does not mean "forget"
Wol Euler: two separate things IMO
Aphrodite Macbain: good point Wol
Bruce Mowbray: "forgiving" is a bit like "dropping," isn't it?
Mickorod Renard: I think I would prefer to see events as life experiences.....but there could be things that could happen that I may become totally incenced by
Aphrodite Macbain: there is just no negative energy to remembering
Wol Euler: yuo can forgive the friend who destroyed a book you lent him, but never lend him another
ShinjuJin Resident nods Bruce, a bit = a lot
ShinjuJin Resident: if the friend really knows it was important, really sees, then I'll lend them more
Bruce Mowbray: "The only work we cando is on ourselves..." -- Ram Das.
ShinjuJin Resident: if I can say "that hurt" and they don't bite me for expressing that, then I'll lend again
Bruce Mowbray: can do*
Qt Core: i need to go, bye all!
Wol Euler: bye qt, take care
Wol Euler: and bye bruce
ShinjuJin Resident: but that's conditional I guess, not ideal
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Qt
Mickorod Renard: if one was in an equanamous state...forgivness is perhaps unnessesary..does that make sense?
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye everyone.
Mickorod Renard: bye qt
Darren Islar: bye QT
ShinjuJin Resident: Bye Qt and Bruce and Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: Tis was so nice
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Aph
ShinjuJin Resident: yes Mick
Darren Islar: bye Aph, Brucew
Mickorod Renard: bye Bruce and aph
ShinjuJin Resident: that's what I finally heard you saying... that you are extra careful not to step into judgment because you know how hard it might be to get out
Wol Euler nods.
Mickorod Renard: mmm
Wol Euler: well said
Darren Islar: yes
Darren Islar: real forgiveness is really hard
ShinjuJin Resident nods
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
Mickorod Renard: one could take it further..perhaps believing that in the whole of time we will all fdo all things
ShinjuJin Resident smiles
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Darren Islar: mmhmm
Mickorod Renard: or..that all things are part of a big plan
ShinjuJin Resident: I think in an ultimate way that is true. but in a conditional way very hard
ShinjuJin Resident: to keep that view at the forefront
ShinjuJin Resident: asking for forgiveness is really hard, accepting it (especially from that critic Wol mentioned!)
Mickorod Renard: yes, I agree..and times change..periodically we can be more generous than at other times
Catrinamonblue Resident: big yes
ShinjuJin Resident: :)
ShinjuJin Resident: I'm really magnanimous at the fountain, lol
Darren Islar: true, but sometimes I'm amazed at what might come back. suddenly, drinking a cup of tea in the first sunshines of this year
Wol Euler smiles.
ShinjuJin Resident: hmmm, so maybe we can make conditions for generosity in ourselves
Darren Islar: there is a nice flow in it
Darren Islar: as ...
Darren Islar: what kind of conditions?
Mickorod Renard: the more I comprehand the more distasteful of myself i become..it is important not to forget to love oneself
Darren Islar: very true and as Cat says, that needs to be done on a daily bases
ShinjuJin Resident: that seems part of cultivating the conditions, the capacity
Darren Islar: nods, so you need to create an antidote
ShinjuJin Resident: ah, yes, the preforgiveness
ShinjuJin Resident: intention
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
ShinjuJin Resident: store it up
Catrinamonblue Resident: it seems to work for me ;)
Catrinamonblue Resident: most of the time :-p
ShinjuJin Resident: :)
Mickorod Renard: I read somewhere that the truth lies in understanding oneself...I didnt realise how complex that might be
--BELL--
ShinjuJin Resident: impossible
Darren Islar: it is
ShinjuJin Resident: one thing I've had to do is stop pedestalizing people
Wol Euler smiles.
ShinjuJin Resident: that helps a lot when disappointed, because I realize I set them up
Darren Islar smiles
Mickorod Renard: he he..i was only thinking that myself today
Tura Brezoianu: A real friend is someone you still like after you've got to know them :)
ShinjuJin Resident: :))
Wol Euler: ha!
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Darren Islar: very true Tura
Darren Islar: what helps me is that the concept of karma has 4 conditions
Darren Islar: the most important one is the intention
Darren Islar: next or equal to it is the result on yourself, is this what you wanted to do/think, do you regret it?
Darren Islar: regret, or understanding it's not in your best interest or in someone else's, makes the karma 'not full'
Darren Islar: which leaves us being humans
Darren Islar: making mistakes
Darren Islar: though I realize we are here more talking about what others do to us :)
ShinjuJin Resident: they are we
Mickorod Renard: do you mean effectively...that by having a conscience negates the samsaric cycle?
Catrinamonblue Resident: I think it's both
Darren Islar: let me say ... it's not good, but awareness is a big step
Darren Islar: yes, I agree Cat
Catrinamonblue Resident: you can't change what you do not acknowledge
ShinjuJin Resident: conscience addresses the part one knows, but the blind spot stuff seems to need further intention
ShinjuJin Resident: that's what wreaks most havoc?
Mickorod Renard: some dont change what they do acknowledge too
ShinjuJin Resident: :)
Mickorod Renard: :)
Darren Islar: true
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes Mick have seen that
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: I need to go get dinner for youngest son and myself......
ShinjuJin Resident: sometimes I acknowledge but also acknowledge I don't have the skills to step out of a pattern
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye everyone
Darren Islar: awareness in itself is not enough, but some things are hard to change and do take time, a lot of it sometimes
Wol Euler: bye cat, take care
ShinjuJin Resident: bye Cat!
Darren Islar: bye Cat
Mickorod Renard: bye Cat
ShinjuJin Resident: indeed
ShinjuJin Resident: I need to go but have foundmyself lingering
ShinjuJin Resident: thank you all, and nice to meet you Tura
Wol Euler: sm
Wol Euler smiles.
Darren Islar: bye Shin
Wol Euler: I shall head off as well
Mickorod Renard: I must go too,,bye all
Wol Euler: goodnight all, take care
Mickorod Renard: take care
ShinjuJin Resident: much appreciation, sweet dreams
Wol Euler: _/|\_
Mickorod Renard: :)
Darren Islar: bye Wol, I'm going to do the same ... hope to see you next week again
Wol Euler: indeed