The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray. The comments are by Bruce Mowbray.

Bruce Mowbray: Hiya, Aph!
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Are you ready for winter?

--BELL--

Aphrodite Macbain: nope
Bruce Mowbray: Ready or not, here it comes.
Aphrodite Macbain: It's just fall right now. That's enough
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, but fall is the time when I get ready for winter.... which is what I've been doing all day today.
Aphrodite Macbain: Have cleaned up my garden
Aphrodite Macbain: and voted
Bruce Mowbray: There you go! That's what I mean.
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Korel
Korel Laloix: heya
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Kori.
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder why you are facing sideways
Korel Laloix: Am i?
Bruce Mowbray: Which "you" are you referring to, Aph?
Aphrodite Macbain: You Bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Qt
Korel Laloix: Heya
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Qt!
Aphrodite Macbain: have a cushion
Aphrodite Macbain: oh dear
Bruce Mowbray: Looks like Qt might be having connection troubles again.
Aphrodite Macbain: was he last week?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, off and on.
Aphrodite Macbain: wb Qt
Bruce Mowbray: Now he's "on".
Bruce Mowbray: wb, Qt.
Qt Core: let's hope it'll last, hi all
Aphrodite Macbain: How are you Korel?
Korel Laloix: Good.. at work.
Korel Laloix: Had a lovely weekend...
Aphrodite Macbain: oh?
Aphrodite Macbain: what were you up to?
Korel Laloix: Just got lots done... had a nice long run, spent a few hours doing Habitat for Humanity stuff.. had some nice time with Sama around the house. An exhausting but worth wile weekend.
Aphrodite Macbain: mice
Aphrodite Macbain: nice
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Korel Laloix: Well, we had mice as well.. but took care of that...
Aphrodite Macbain: what kind of stuff do you do for Habitat for Humanity? Lol
Korel Laloix: Just the winter when they want to move in.
Bruce Mowbray nods. The mice are getting ready for winter.
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Elan
Bruce Mowbray: Around here, the mice also come in when the fields are being harvested. The machines chase them in.
ElanVitalo Resident: Namaste, one and all.
Korel Laloix: I did a lot of actual building, but Sama does some of the PR work on occasion.
Aphrodite Macbain: seems like an appropriate response!
Korel Laloix: Can't blame them.. smiles
Aphrodite Macbain: Wow- you built houses?
ElanVitalo Resident: ooops.:)
Korel Laloix: Especially with Bruce's firey combines.
Korel Laloix: lol.. well I help.
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Korel Laloix: They just say put those boards there and i do it.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, one of the combines caught on fire last week, actually.
Aphrodite Macbain: hammer in a few nails?
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Korel Laloix: I was using a nail gun to do roofing shingles this time.
Korel Laloix: Trying to get the shell done before the winter hits.
Aphrodite Macbain: careful you don't fall off
Korel Laloix: They have us in these harnesses, not sure safer though.
Aphrodite Macbain: Is there a housing complex that is being built by H4H?
Korel Laloix: I don't know about that.... this was a rebuild in an older neighborhood.
Aphrodite Macbain: You still have the coffee I gave you yesterday Qt.!
Aphrodite Macbain: ah
Korel Laloix: I have never worked with them before, but Sama really cares for the charity.
Qt Core: Probably, i just logged out after that
Korel Laloix: So of course... that means I do as well... lol
Aphrodite Macbain: I was wondering what kind of projects H4H does in your neighbourhood
Korel Laloix: I think this one was a complete rebuild.
Aphrodite Macbain: We have an office here in Vancouver but I don't know what projects they do
Korel Laloix: I don't ask those sorts of questions though.
Korel Laloix: Maybe I should... smiles
Bruce Mowbray: Around here, H4H first finds a family that needs a home, then they build it to specs that suit the family and its ability to pay.
Aphrodite Macbain: Their mandate is to provide affordable housing
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, for sure.
Aphrodite Macbain: and to fund raise
Korel Laloix: I don't know the front end of it.
Aphrodite Macbain: you just do the hard work!

--BELL--

ElanVitalo Resident: http://www.habitat.org/
Aphrodite Macbain: I spent the weekend recovering from my holiday, unpacking and catching up with friends
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Qt Core: wow, it is not a US-only thing, got surprised when the site told me i was going to get the EMEA edition
Aphrodite Macbain: and trying to decide who to vote for.
Bruce Mowbray: No place like home, as they say.
Aphrodite Macbain: what's the EMEA edition?
Bruce Mowbray: EMEA?
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Qt Core: Europe Middle East Africa, most USA firm/organizations use that acronym
Bruce Mowbray: ahhh. Nods.
ElanVitalo Resident adds EMEA to his database.
Aphrodite Macbain: What do they mean the EMEA edition?
Aphrodite Macbain: Is it a different software?
ElanVitalo Resident: Maybe the website devoted to those areas of the world?
Qt Core: an edition focused on what they do this side of the ocean, like this page: http://www.habitat.org/where-we-buil...e-central-asia
ElanVitalo Resident clicks.
Aphrodite Macbain: ah as in H4H?
Aphrodite Macbain: I understand now
ElanVitalo Resident: Yeppers. Still H4H -- just on the other side of the Pond.
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder how they differ. I guess Africa and the Middle East have very different housing requirements
Qt Core: they may need to do real work in areas like Germany beyond pr and shipping volunteers abroad, I've read they need housing for the incoming winter for all the immigrants/refugees coming there
Aphrodite Macbain: Of course!
Aphrodite Macbain: What a challenge.
ElanVitalo Resident: Wow.
Aphrodite Macbain: How do you house thousands of people before winter sets in?
ElanVitalo Resident: and folks from the Middle East are probably not used to European winter, of course.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods as well as those from North Africa
Bruce Mowbray nods, also.
Qt Core: on the mountains over 1000 meters there is already (little) snow
Bruce Mowbray: wow.
Qt Core: even here in northern Italy, so there it could be already cold
Bruce Mowbray: We've been below freezing twice, here, but warming up a bit this week.
Aphrodite Macbain: I suppose they could use pre-fab housing
Aphrodite Macbain: but they need so much more
Aphrodite Macbain: land to put the housing on
Aphrodite Macbain: electricity
Aphrodite Macbain: plumbing
Aphrodite Macbain: food
Bruce Mowbray: For sure.
Aphrodite Macbain: This is where a collaboration among all the aid groups could be very helpful
Qt Core: with EU population and urbanization density it would be probably easier to use unoccupied unused building more than build from scratch (we also use/build a lot less with wood)
Bruce Mowbray: We should have learned these lessons from Katrina and Sandy.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: and Haiti
Bruce Mowbray: There are TONS of vacant buildings in China.
Aphrodite Macbain: are there?
Bruce Mowbray: and Haiti, for sure.
Bruce Mowbray: Whole cities full of them.
Aphrodite Macbain: None of the immigrants went to china....
Bruce Mowbray: Right, Europe is closer.... if your boat can make it across the Mediterranean.
Aphrodite Macbain: Germany and Turkey seem to be the main targets
Qt Core: and China is more a starting point than a destination
Bruce Mowbray: I read something today about Slovenia accepting migrants.
Aphrodite Macbain: people are fleeing China?
Aphrodite Macbain: oops
Qt Core: not as refugees
Bruce Mowbray: ooops. Meant to type NOT accepting migrants: http://www.wsj.com/articles/slovenia...tia-1445257569
Aphrodite Macbain: Tx Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: yw.

--BELL--

Aphrodite Macbain: Canada should be opening its doors
Aphrodite Macbain: we are waiting to see who our next Prime Minister will be
Aphrodite Macbain: to determine what the policy will be
ElanVitalo Resident: Humanity really needs to learn how to deal with migrant crises,,,, Just wait until the sea levels rise a few yards and New York and south Florida are under water....
Bruce Mowbray: Ohio might become a seacoast resort!
Aphrodite Macbain: The argument is that there are already people who need housing in our country. Why let more in...
ElanVitalo Resident: Don't hold your breath, Brucie.
Aphrodite Macbain: It brings out the racist in people
ElanVitalo Resident nods.
ElanVitalo Resident: But it could also bring out the best in people.
Aphrodite Macbain: I remember sponsoring 3 boat people
Bruce Mowbray listens....
Aphrodite Macbain: back in the early 80s
Bruce Mowbray: Viet Nam refugees?
Aphrodite Macbain: and some refugees from El Salvador
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Bruce Mowbray: ahhh!
Bruce Mowbray: I salute you for that.
Aphrodite Macbain: It was a real eye-opener
Bruce Mowbray: Really?
Aphrodite Macbain: namaste
Aphrodite Macbain: their needs
Aphrodite Macbain: I helped them to do basic things
ElanVitalo Resident: Sounds wonderful, Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: most had never seen an escalator or an elevator
Aphrodite Macbain: or a subway
Aphrodite Macbain: Had no idea how to dress in a cold climate
Aphrodite Macbain: and of course could not speak English
Bruce Mowbray: My next-door neighbor had never seen either one until I took him to Columbus in 1976 -- He was 14 at the time.]
Aphrodite Macbain: It must be awful to be in a foreign country without friends, family or resources
Bruce Mowbray: That is what I meant by preparing beforehand- before the need becomes so great that it is overwhelming.
Korel Laloix: I guess I have a vastly different view of this.
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes. But sometimes it's hard to know what to prepare for. :-) Qt- are there immigrants coming to Milano?
Aphrodite Macbain: Please share them Korel
Korel Laloix: No offense.. but we did not ask for white people to come here, now white people are letting people in from all over the world? There are already too many people.... so we are going to reward cultures that make too many babies with free food shelter and the like?
Qt Core: some, mostly by force as they just want to go to northern Europe but as they legally can't, they end up being somewhat randomly placed
Korel Laloix: There is no justice in that.
Korel Laloix: Just sets up the planet for further damage on top of that.
Aphrodite Macbain: People are fleeing for their lives
Aphrodite Macbain: How can we refuse to help?
Korel Laloix: Just like my people did when Europeans landed.
Qt Core: right on a long term frame but can't kill the ones alive now
Korel Laloix: I see both sides of course.
Korel Laloix: But long term, this is making the problem worse not better.
Aphrodite Macbain: The golden rule operates whatever religion or colour you are
Korel Laloix: I get that...
Korel Laloix: But yet again... we suffer.
Korel Laloix: When does it stop?
Aphrodite Macbain: who knows?
Qt Core: when there will be no more humans around ?
Aphrodite Macbain: Things are bound to get tougher as the population expands
Korel Laloix: We already have issues with squatters and states trying to take our lands again, again, again, again.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: It must be hard
Aphrodite Macbain: and a real test of values
Aphrodite Macbain: what has priority?
Korel Laloix: Just one more twist of the knife.
Aphrodite Macbain: or we can think of new people as valuable- having skills and knowledge that can contribute to society
Korel Laloix: Yes, that is exactly what Europeans brought us.... lol

--BELL--

Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: We don't own the earth ... somehow we all have to live together in it and learn how
Bruce Mowbray: Not just you, Kori, but South America and Africa - and the Far East, as well.
Korel Laloix: I like the fact that my tribes have their tribal lands... so I have no issues with other people wanting their people to have their lands as well. That is not racism. That is wanting to preserve your culture, traditions and language.
Aphrodite Macbain: Can you not do that while sharing the land?
Korel Laloix: Yes, I know there are racist idiots that only think about their skin color.. but that is not what I mean.
Korel Laloix: Perhaps, if they let you keep it....
Bruce Mowbray: Aph is going to have to leave early, so I claimed the session....
Korel Laloix: Europeans out babbied us more than out fought us.
Korel Laloix: OK
Aphrodite Macbain: They were good at outbabbling
Bruce Mowbray: still are.
Aphrodite Macbain: babbied or babbled?
ElanVitalo Resident searches history databases.
Korel Laloix: babyied.. not sure the spelling..lol.. baby making
ElanVitalo Resident: Bobbles, bangles, bright shiny beads?
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Korel Laloix: Will with population.
ElanVitalo Resident: out BABIED -- Ha ha. I get it now.
ElanVitalo Resident: Bye for now, Aph.
Qt Core: outnumber with breeding ?
Korel Laloix: Ciao
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm sorry I have to leave early....
Korel Laloix: Yes
Qt Core: bye Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: it's an interesting conversation
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, that's what "out-babied" means.
Aphrodite Macbain: ahhh got it!
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: Byee
Korel Laloix: lol..my world view clashes with a lot of people.
Qt Core: that is happening even around here in Milan, true Milan people out-babied by Italian southern that came here in great numbers from the late '50 to early '80
Bruce Mowbray: Doesn't the price of land and housing tend to limit migrations, though?
Korel Laloix: I just wish I could find an answer that is humane and works.
Korel Laloix: Not at all..... if you are being given a place to live and food and medical.
Qt Core: only on some level if in the originating area there is no money at all or life dangers
Bruce Mowbray: ahhh... I see, Qt.
Bruce Mowbray: I guess my bias is that shelter and healthcare are human "rights" that every society should attempt to provide its population.
Qt Core: and if you start with a situation where everyone, good or not gets to university and is brought to believe he should have a nice high paying job space for people accepting 'lower' jobs are big
Bruce Mowbray: But I also feel that population control should be a top priority of all societies. The question, for me, is how to make that a free choice - and not impose it.
Qt Core: now expectations are starting to lessen as even a PhD will not guarantee a job
Korel Laloix: Oh I agree... very hard question...
Bruce Mowbray: Name me ONE politician outside of China who would even mention zero population growth.
Bruce Mowbray: I'm going to have to leave, too, at the top of the hour.
Korel Laloix: I want to help.. but in the end, some societies give women no say in their pregnancies.. and then that society is propagated more than societies that do give us choices. So long term, our rights are diminished if we keep rewarding that sort of cultural behavior.
Qt Core: don't know if they follow that policy anymore, they are starting to notice they will not have workers paying for their welfare in a couple decades
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you, Kori and Qt, and Elan.
Korel Laloix: Need to go as well.
Korel Laloix: Take care
Bruce Mowbray: Same in America, Qt.
Qt Core: yes here too and we live longer too...
Qt Core: bye Bruce

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Our "Social Security" program will soon be bankrupt if population trends and employment trends continue. But now I must be gone.
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now.
Qt Core: and bye Elan
Korel Laloix: ciao all
Qt Core: ciao