Bunan Bosatsu: The further ‘upstream’ — towards the beginning of the thought … that you can take notice… the better!! So begin to work on doing that….\
Holden Henig: To know that you are thinking?
Bunan Bosatsu: Notice the thought…. and then simply label it…. if you are planning to do something after meditation practice….. “Ah! Planning!”… and return to your focus…..
I did not want to disturb the conversation, so I walked on, and found Stim and Hotaru already in the tea house. Stim had shed his Harajuku look, except for a remaining lock of hair.
Stim Morane: Hi Pema
Pema Pera: Hi Stim :-)
Pema Pera: Hi Hotaru!
Pema Pera: Wow, you’ve changed, Stim!
Stim Morane: Hi Hotaru!
Hotaru Myoo: Hi Pema!
Pema Pera: Much better!!
Hotaru Myoo: Hi Stim!
Stim Morane: we’ll see.
Pema Pera: haha, we will
Pema Pera: Hotaru, don’t you want to come closer to the fire?
Pema Pera: would be fitting . . . .
There was an open seat still next to the fire
Hotaru Myoo: ah…
Hotaru Myoo: yes
Hotaru Myoo: better
Hotaru Myoo: ty
Hotaru Myoo: btw
Hotaru Myoo: am I floating?
Stim Morane: yes
Hotaru Myoo: haha
Hotaru Myoo: kewl
Hotaru Myoo: it is my altered state
Stim Morane: why not
Hotaru Myoo: tyvm
Pema Pera: getting excited by the fire :-)
Hotaru Myoo: as Elvis would say…
Hotaru Myoo: woot
Hotaru Myoo: bbbbzzzzz
Pema Pera: jumping from one cushion to the other here seems to let you float sometimes
Pema Pera: hehe
Hotaru Myoo: I ‘ll have to try it more often then
Pema Pera: drinking tea here does the same
Hotaru Myoo: haha
Hotaru Myoo: so I hear
Hotaru Myoo: Dakini has a mean blend
I commented on Hotaru’s red dress, and then Doug walked in.
Pema Pera: Is that an Idian dress you are wearing? Very cheerful!
Hotaru Myoo: from Oman
Stim Morane: Hi Doug
Pema Pera: Hi Doug!
Pema Pera: ah, Oman!
Hotaru Myoo: Hi Doug
doug Sosa: hello all.
Hotaru Myoo: Oh Man
Hotaru Myoo: :)
Pema Pera: Hey man!
Pema Pera: Doug, you know Stim is Steven, right?
Hotaru Myoo: Doug…
Pema Pera: I don’t know whether you’ve met in SL yet
Hotaru Myoo: here is your chance to catch a wave
Pema Pera: in Oman?
doug Sosa: no, didn’t know that. looks can be decieveing.
Hotaru Myoo: yet ta hey
Pema Pera: hehe, you should have seen him earlier . . . .
Pema Pera: he was Harajuku punk goth . . . .
Stim Morane: I still have the top knot … maybe not for long
Pema Pera: probably not!
Hotaru Myoo: haha
We talked about SL.
doug Sosa: i find it is hard to look like one’s self.
Hotaru Myoo: I love Harajuku
Hotaru Myoo: can you bring it back?
Stim Morane: not easily
Pema Pera: It takes a long time, Doug, to learn how to sculpt oneself here
Hotaru Myoo: what matters is not easy
Hotaru Myoo: ever
doug Sosa: even in FL it is hard.
Hotaru Myoo: lol
Pema Pera: RL it is normally called
Pema Pera: Real Life
Hotaru Myoo: oh
Pema Pera: many abbreviations to learn here :-)
doug Sosa: ah!
Hotaru Myoo: I thought he meant Florida
Hotaru Myoo: hehe
Pema Pera: it is like immigrating in a new country
Pema Pera: takes a while to get the hang of diction and customs
Hotaru Myoo: Rasta there
Stim Morane: Hi Rowan!
Pema Pera: Hi Rowan!
Rowan Masala: Hi Stim! Hi all :)
Pema Pera: Good seeing you here again!
Hotaru Myoo: Hi Rowan!
Rowan Masala smiles at Hotaru
After Rowan walked in, I brought up an email exchange that had been going on for the last few days in our little Qwaq-based WoK Forums group, of which Doug and Stim were members.
Pema Pera: Doug and Stim, did you see my email exchange with Jan?
Hotaru Myoo: :)
Hotaru Myoo smiles back
Stim Morane: Yes, I saw it
doug Sosa: (uh oh, beautiful)
doug Sosa: yes.
Pema Pera: Hotaru and Rowan,
Pema Pera: Doug and Stim and I met many times in a different virtual world
Pema Pera: Qwaq
Pema Pera: and there we used voice all the time
Hotaru Myoo: Ah Quaq
Rowan Masala: ah yes, I’ve seen Qwaq, brielfy
Hotaru Myoo: I am still a newbie when it comes to Qwaq
Pema Pera: over the last few days I have had an email exchange with another fellow Qwaq resident
Hotaru Myoo: only through Pema have I heard about it…
Pema Pera: about the pros and cons of text vs voice
Hotaru Myoo: and his work
At that moment I blundered and typed “voice” where I should have typed “text” . . . .
Pema Pera: I feel strongly that voice has unique qualities to offer for what we are doing here
Rowan Masala: it’s an interesting topic–text and voice
Hotaru Myoo: what are those …the p & C
Pema Pera: while Jan disagreed, based on three things:
Pema Pera: 1) his experience years ago of chat rooms
Stim Morane: I think you meant to say “text”
Pema Pera: 2) his reading of teh PaB blog
Hotaru Myoo: I dunno
Pema Pera: 3) theoretical arguments of voice being richer
Pema Pera: AH YES SORRY
Pema Pera: I MEANT TEXT
Pema Pera: hahaha
Pema Pera: that could be confusing
Rowan Masala: oh good!!!
Hotaru Myoo: screamer
Pema Pera: I feel strongly that TEXT has unique qualities for here
Hotaru Myoo: I agree
Pema Pera: So what do you both think, Stim and Doug, having experienced both?
Rowan Masala: I couldn’t agree more–I’ve seen some really miraculous things happen through text
Stim Morane: I’ll decide in a year or so.
Pema Pera: me too
Pema Pera: me too, Rowan and Hotaru I mean
Pema Pera: I am sold :-)
Hotaru Myoo: come on
Hotaru Myoo: text has such various levels of interpretation
Rowan Masala: I think it creates an interesting rhythm, which allows for a marvelous combination of mindfulness and quick wit
Pia walked in, and we continued discussing text vs voice.
Pia Iger: Hi, everyone.
Hotaru Myoo: Hi Pia
Pema Pera: and interleaving options that are simply not present in voice
Stim Morane: Hi Pia
Rowan Masala: hi Pia :)
Pema Pera: Hi there Pia!
Rowan Masala: exactly!
Hotaru Myoo: Yes
Hotaru Myoo: voice can actually flatten things
Rowan Masala: pauses and pressures that forge something entirely different than voice can
Pema Pera: quiet people can speak up in chat in ways they don’t do in voice
Pema Pera: yes
Hotaru Myoo: yes
Hotaru Myoo: slice through the interace
Pema Pera: And all that I cannot convey to someone who has never been in-world in SL
Rowan Masala nods
Hotaru Myoo: with genuine truth and feeling
Pema Pera: Hi Holden!
Pema Pera: yes!!
Holden Henig: hi!
Hotaru Myoo: Hi Holden
Stim Morane: Hi Holden
Rowan Masala: Hi Holden
Holden, whom I had seen earlier at the zazen place, had joined us now in the tea room.
Holden Henig: Sorry, the other man was giving very good advice at the meditation place
Holden Henig: I learnd a lot
Hotaru Myoo: haha
Pema Pera: Yes, Bunan seemed charged tonight!
Hotaru Myoo: get it while its hot
Pema Pera: just back from a retreat
Holden Henig: He is till shelping him.
Pema Pera: I listened briefly but had to come here
Holden Henig: Hi hotaru
Hotaru Myoo: ^^
Holden Henig: Why not listen to the master talk?
Pema Pera: Doug, do you want to defend voice over text :-)
Holden Henig: Hotaru, I think ur hair changed
Pema Pera: it is an interesting argument!
Hotaru Myoo: slipping again?
Holden Henig: Yes
Holden Henig: Very punky now lol :)
Hotaru Myoo: well…at least I have hair
Holden Henig: EROFL
Holden Henig: hahaha
Pia Iger: I think it is easier to interrupt by typing,
Hotaru Myoo: well yes…
Pema Pera: yes, Pia, that is one reason I like typing
Hotaru Myoo: you can just go on…talking abou
doug Sosa: and easy to be quiet
Hotaru Myoo: true
Pia Iger: It is not so polite to cut off people when they talk
Holden Henig: Why be quiet?
We continued to talk about the pros and cons of texting.
Rowan Masala: but the interruptions often aren’t intentional, and they can decrease the linearity of the conversation
Pema Pera: But Doug, I know you disagree, so don’t let our enthusiasm for texting silence you :-)
Hotaru Myoo: well…and that’s the beauty of this chaos
doug Sosa: quiet is a pleasure.
Hotaru Myoo: it is like poetry
Hotaru Myoo: poetry in motion
Hotaru Myoo: nonsequitor
Rowan Masala: another reason I’m very fond of typing is the typographical errors themselves
Hotaru Myoo: non linear
Hotaru Myoo: sure
Rowan Masala: I think they’re so rich–so much potential for leading the mind into areas it hadn’t considered
Hotaru Myoo: it gives an organic feel to the process
Hotaru Myoo: life
Holden Henig: i will be back shortly.. sorry.. want to hear the other man talk
Hotaru Myoo: happy accidents that lead somewhere else
doug Sosa: i don’t disagree about writing. it is new and thrilling. but i may get frustrated to notknow others though voice, real looks, even smell.
Rowan Masala: yes!
Holden Henig: discussing text versus voice is good though
Pema Pera: it is true that everything has drawbacks, of course, and nonlinearity can break an otherwise interesting conversation — but in my experience the essence then goes underground and pops up again later in different form — especially because we have four chances a day to continue
Hotaru Myoo: scratch and sniff text? how about that?
Rowan Masala grins
Pema Pera: But Doug, having no smell did not prevent you from enjoing Qwaq
Rowan Masala: I do like to use voice in SL as well–just not exclusively
Pema Pera: All the arguments in favor of voice vs text can be translated as arguments of RL vs VW
Pema Pera: and they don’t hold
Pema Pera: as we know
Ecstasy joined us.
Hotaru Myoo: Hi Ecstasy!
Ecstasy Dreamscape: hi!
Rowan Masala: Hi Ecstasy
Pema Pera: Hi Ecstasy!
doug Sosa: but it was limited, yet qwaq like sl is an addition to my normal. I came out of the garden by the river to be here.
Pema Pera: Great to see you again, welcome back!
Ecstasy Dreamscape: whoosi*giggle
Stim Morane: Hi Ecstasy!
Ecstasy Dreamscape: laaggggg!!!!!
Hotaru Myoo: nah
Ecstasy Dreamscape smiles
Pema Pera: yes, both are limited, both are a type of distillation
Hotaru Myoo: settle in …
Hotaru Myoo: it goes away
Pia Iger: Hi, Ecstasy. I am busy reading
Ecstasy Dreamscape: i did settle in for a moment on Stim’s lap!!!!
Ecstasy Dreamscape: sorry bout that
Ecstasy Dreamscape: hi Rowan glad to see you back!!!
Rowan Masala: thanks, Ecstasy :)
Stim Morane: no problem.
doug Sosa: no problem!?
Pema Pera: But I wouldn’t suggest that text has only advantages over voice — in fact, for my astronomy work I like using voice, more efficient, given that we know what we are doing there
Pema Pera: Stim responded to Ecstasy
Pema Pera: text interweaving :-)
Pema Pera: But here we are groping in the dark
Pema Pera: and this groping may work better with text
Rowan Masala: and during explorations in SL, voice is so much easier
Rowan Masala: you need your hands to negotiate the terrain
Rowan Masala: and the companionship of voice, without having to stop to type
Yes, all good points. Most of the time we have been hanging around while talking, but when there is more moving around, like us walking to and through our forest, stopping to type is a bit of a distraction and interruption.
Pema Pera: given a firm framework like astrophysics, you may want to speed up communications
Hotaru Myoo: guys…I have to run…
Pema Pera: yes that too, Rowan
Hotaru Myoo: text on!!
Pema Pera: Bye Hotaru
Pia Iger: Plus, so many foreign languages, hard to understand by voice.
Pema Pera: hahaha
Rowan Masala: Bye Hotaru
Pema Pera: yes, Pia, good point!
Hotaru Myoo: ciao!
Stim Morane: Bye Hotaru
Hotaru Myoo: matane
Pema Pera: I love texting in different languages
Pema Pera: jaa mata!
Ecstasy Dreamscape: Bye Hotaru
Pema Pera: Actually, I have to go pretty soon too, have to take a train from Kyoto to Tokyo in RL
Stim Morane: you haven’t worked out a way to stay online thru that process?
Stim Morane: I’m shocked
Rowan Masala smiles
Pema Pera: in a normal train yes
Pema Pera: I have a wireless cell phone
Pema Pera: but above 100 miles/hour
Pema Pera: the cells don’t switch fast enough
Pema Pera: it seems :)
Stim Morane: interesting
Pema Pera: experience
Pema Pera: I could take a local train
Pema Pera: but that would take six hours instead of two
Pema Pera: :-)
doug Sosa: I wish the teapot would reverse direction after a while.
Well, perhaps one of the scripters among the readers can offer some help here? I agree, it would be good to have the tea pot change directions rather than winding its cord up indefinitely. It’s a small point, but like with many things, once it catches your attention . . . .
Rowan Masala: and I would think that at 100 miles/hr, you might want to be more fully present in the non-virtual world
Rowan Masala: how exhilerating, the speed
Pema Pera: haha, well, I’m used to it
Pema Pera: but it is fun
Stim Morane: I have often thought the same re the tea pot
Pia Iger: I agree. RL is fun too.
Pema Pera: yup!
Pema Pera: and going beyond RL too
Pema Pera: Being
Pema Pera: which is our main theme
Pema Pera: :)
doug Sosa: in RL you can’t exit
Pema Pera: wellll
Pema Pera: I could argue you can
Pema Pera: but it depends on what we mean with that
Rowan Masala nods
Pema Pera: waking up
Pema Pera: is a metaphor in Zen
Pema Pera: for stopping
Pema Pera: stepping out of illusion
Pema Pera: not stepping out of the real RL
Pema Pera: but out of the perceived RL
Rowan Masala nods
Pema Pera: from SL to RL to Being
Pema Pera: just folow the dots
The conversation moved to Being.
Pia Iger: The Being is still elusive to me yet.
Rowan Masala: or perhaps the dots might move in the other direction as well?
Pema Pera: It took me many years to get a sense, Pia
Pema Pera: or not move :-)
doug Sosa: is being the same as experience?
Pia Iger: but interesting to listen to possiblites.
Rowan Masala nods
Pema Pera: no, beyond experience
Pema Pera: experience still has “ex”, separation
Pema Pera: and time and experiencer
Rowan Masala: interesting
doug Sosa: what is -perience?
Pema Pera: Being is beyond time and space
Rowan Masala: I’d never thought about the etymology of “experience”
Pema Pera: don’t know Doug
Pema Pera: but what we normally call experience has an experiencer
Pema Pera: so it is duality still
Pema Pera: Being is beyond duality
Rowan Masala nods
Pema Pera: I’m speaking now from a being-in-duality point of view
Pema Pera: Speaking from Being’s point of view all is Being
Pema Pera: and I would have to then deny all that I said :-)
Rowan Masala smiles
Pema Pera: so we always have to know what point of view we are talking from
Pema Pera: otherwise confusion reigns
Pema Pera: and sects starts and battles and schisms
Pia Iger: Pema. what you said may be true, but so far from daily life, as to me
Doug had found an official definition of experience.
doug Sosa: Origin: 1175–1225; ME < OF < L perīculum trial, test, danger, equiv. to perī-, verb base meaning “try” (found in the compound experīrī; see experience) + -culum -cle2]
Pema Pera: interesting, Doug!
Rowan Masala smiles
Rowan Masala: cool, Doug
Rowan Masala: thanks
Pema Pera: Didn’t know that — but trial and try is also dualistic
stevenaia Michinaga: evening all
Ecstasy Dreamscape smiles “uh oh rl is calling, catch you all later and take care”
Rowan Masala reaches out a hand to Steven
doug Sosa: from dictionary.com
Stim Morane: Bye Ecstasy!
Rowan Masala: bye, Ecstasy
Pema Pera: And Pia, Being seems remote at first, but then can be seen as more intimate than anything else
Pema Pera: hi Steve!
Pema Pera: Hello and goodbye
stevenaia Michinaga: hello…smiles
Rowan Masala takes Steven’s hand and grasps it gently
Steve entered, Ecstasy left, and I would have to depart soon as well.
Pema Pera: I really have to leave know, sad to say
Rowan Masala: hello, Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Rowan, pema
Pema Pera: would love to continue this
Pema Pera: but some other time :)
Stim Morane: Bye Pema
doug Sosa: soon
stevenaia Michinaga: glad our paths crosed Pema
Rowan Masala: enjoy your velocity, Pema
Pema Pera: yes, Steve!
Pema Pera: hahaha
Pema Pera: yes
Rowan Masala: revel in it
Pema Pera: astronomically speaking still slow
stevenaia Michinaga: sorry Stim, I;m still rezzing
doug Sosa: i too must leave.
Pema Pera: much less than 1 km/sec
Rowan Masala: but it’s all about your point of view, as you just said
Pia Iger: Bye Pema.
Pema Pera: haha, yes
Pema Pera: btw Steve, could you keep a chat log from here on and send it to me?
Pema Pera: Stevenaia I mean?
stevenaia Michinaga: sure
Pema Pera: This is Stim’s guardian session
Pema Pera: but you may stay here longer than him
Pema Pera: whoever stays longest can send it to me :-)
Stim Morane: that won’t be me, probably
Pema Pera: Bye Stim, Steve, Rowan, Pia!
Rowan Masala: goodbye, Pema
Rowan Masala: safe journey
From here on I am using that chat log that Stevenaia sent me afterwards. I have continued to add some comments in the following as well.
stevenaia Michinaga: what did I miss?
Pia Iger: Hi, I have been reading blog. Now I can see you all in SL.
Rowan Masala smiles
Stim Morane: We discussed the merits of text vs voice
Rowan Masala: we were talking about text v. voice, Stevie
Rowan Masala: and about experience v. being
stevenaia Michinaga: one being internal and one being external?
Rowan Masala: Pema was arguing
Rowan Masala: that with experience
Stim Morane: We can send you a copy of that part of the Log, if you like.
Rowan Masala: there is an experiencer
Rowan Masala: and so, duality
stevenaia Michinaga: I will read about it later, thanks Stim
Stim Morane: sure
The discussion went further into the meaning of duality.
Pia Iger: What duality mean here? separation?
Stim Morane: this is a tricky issue.
Rowan Masala: yes, specifically between two things
Rowan Masala: if you take the word literally
stevenaia Michinaga: I would think of it not as duality but as experience feeding the development of being
Stim Morane: There is nothing wrong with distinguishing subject from object, especially in some contexts.
Rowan Masala smiles
Rowan Masala: I like that, Steve
Stim Morane: The problem comes in when the issue at hand is something that by its very nature is more intimate and direct.
Stim Morane: Even there, it is possible for the usual structure of s/o duality to obtain.
Stim Morane: It’s not the structure that’s the problem, but the fact tthat it usually is attended by a heedlessness of a more fundamental presence and unity.
stevenaia Michinaga: being cannot exist in a vacuum for very long
stevenaia Michinaga: scratching head Stim
Rowan Masala: but wouldn’t being and a vacuum be mutually exclusive
Pia Iger: seems being includes everything.
Stim Morane: we’re already tackling something that may be hard to discuss this way, ie., using text. We’ll see.
Stim Morane: Being is just a word. It remains to be seen what meaning it should have in this context.
Stim Morane: I have discussed this issue a lot with Pema before the PaB was set up.
Pia Iger: Stim, what is other ways you will recommend to discuss?
And now it really got interesting, talking about Being; I wish I could have stayed to hear that . . . but there will be other chances.
stevenaia Michinaga: isn;t being internalization, reflection of one’s self to oneself?
Stim Morane: One option is simply some form of sacred dimension.
Pia Iger: not clear to me? Sacred dimension?
Stim Morane: But another, which is more advanced, relates to the traditional contemplative notion of Suchness, a direct presence that is expressive of a larger and more fundamnental dimension.
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, it can be “discussed” at length
Rowan Masala: I need chocolate chips. BRB
Stim Morane: Beyond that is something that takes that realization to its ultimate form. Perhaps this latter could be called Being here
Of the three increasingly more radical interpretations that Stim had mentioned, a sacred dimension, Suchness as a direct presence, and something taking realization to its ultimate form, it has always been the last one that has inspired me, and let me to suggest the title “Play as Being”. But I fully agree with Stim, it is good to start with something that has a bit more traction.
Stim Morane: We can insist on chips next time.
Rowan Masala: back
Rowan Masala: hello Rajah
Stim Morane: Anyway, Pia, I would suggest the “sacred dimension”, or intrinsically-satisfying dimension point first.
Rajah Yalin: hi there
Stim Morane: Hi Rajah!
Pia Iger: Hi, Rajah
Pia Iger: How we can get the point. or see the point?
stevenaia Michinaga: evhello Rajah
Rajah joined, and Stim talking about Being in the context of Realization, and then circled back to Pia’s question.
Stim Morane: Steven, you raise other important points about Being. Again, there are many possible meanings, and yet we can’t try to emphasize all of them. I look forward to seeing the tree trimmed a bit as we proceed.
Rowan Masala: but we prune it only to guide its later fullness, no?
stevenaia Michinaga: hmmm, ponders the metaphor
Stim Morane: The closest analogue to Being in traditional contemplative teaching is a realization/reality that remains originally “right”, authentic, central.
Stim Morane: But in Western thought, the word is used in somewhat diff ways.
Stim Morane: This is why I opted for what I hope is a simpler idea, sacred dimension. But this avoids some issues that will have to be picked up.
Stim Morane: Anyway, Pia, do you find that in your own life, sometimes your situation can be seen as complete in itself, without regard to pragmatic judgments?
Pia Iger: yes. I do have the experience. Being whole. not need anything.
Stim Morane: Yes.
Stim Morane: That’s surely relevant.
Pia Iger: more and more feeling so.
Stim Morane: So the 9-second appreciativeness discipline bears on that.
Pia Iger: I found 9 sec/15min is so frequent. no time for a long escape.
stevenaia Michinaga: I like that desctiption, Appriciativeness
Stim Morane: Appreciation is important here.
Stim Morane: the word just means “seeing the value of”.
Pia Iger: It wrapped me tight.
Stim Morane: But here we mean something independent of ordinary valuations.
Stim Morane: value beyond ordinary reasons and preferences
Stim Morane: all of life bears that
Holden returned.
Stim Morane: Hi again, Holden
Holden Henig: hi
Holden Henig: Sorry, had to ask them some deep questions
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Holden
Stim Morane: uh oh
Holden Henig: hi everyone
Holden Henig: What is the topic?
Stim Morane: we’re discussing “Being”
Stim Morane: but of course, that’s a way of saying we’re exploring possibilities
Holden Henig: Well, we are “being” whether we like it or not I think.
Rowan Masala: forgive me, all. I must go
Holden Henig: Bye Rowan
Stim Morane: Bye Rowan!
Rowan Masala: good to see you all :)
Pia Iger: Bye, Rowan.
stevenaia Michinaga: bye rowan
Rowan left, and Stim continued to give his reflections on Being.
Pia Iger: Stim, Please say more.
Stim Morane: Yes, this is an example of some of the difficulties we face.
Stim Morane: It’s Pema’s choice of words.
Stim Morane: It derives from the last chapter of a book called Time, Space, and Knowledge.
Pia Iger: Being sounds neutral. Sacred is kind of religious.
Stim Morane: But here the idea is to keep a connection to something closer to all experience, all of life.
Stim Morane: Yes, I realize the word “sacred” has barbed aspects too.
Stim Morane: But I meant it in the way I defined, an appreciation of all of our lives, beyond the usual “reasons”
Pia Iger: I want to know the “something”!
Stim Morane: let it go, then you have it
Yes, subtraction rather than addition . . . how to convey this, how to taste celebrate and it?
Holden Henig: lol
Stim Morane: please say more, Pia
Pia Iger: but I truly found hard to go through daily life w/o reasoning.
Stim Morane: There’s nothing wrong with reasoning. But the best reasoning is based on the most direct and appreciative perception.
Holden Henig: Yes, I agree.
Pia Iger: you make sense.
Stim Morane: The nine second format is supposed to nurture that.
Stim Morane: even reasoning can be a higher capacity, if it is freed up from ordinary habits and attachments.
Pia Iger: I don’t call it 9-sec. more every 15min. Frequency is main point.
Stim Morane: yes, good.
Stim Morane: it’s not as though we really care about the clock
Stim Morane: the intention is to stay in touch with what is usually buried
Pia Iger: I already feel quite difference from practice, even more strictly per 15min
Pia Iger: not strictly, I mean
Stim Morane: I see
Stim Morane: Steven and Rajah, could you take over here? I need to leave now.
Holden Henig: Im going too
Holden Henig: Thank everyone.
stevenaia Michinaga: I will be here a while
Holden Henig: I will try the 9 seconds again.
Stim Morane: Okay, thanks!
Stim Morane: Bye Holden!
Holden Henig: Bye everyone!
Pia Iger: bye Stim, good talking to you.
Stim Morane: Bye Pia! i hope to see you again.
Holden left, but Stim lingered a bit more, responding to questions triggered by his reflections.
stevenaia Michinaga: I am new to much of that and not a 9sec practicioner
Stim Morane: we may find that our real practice happens here in SL.
stevenaia Michinaga: but I;m a good listener
Pia Iger: Just give it a try, You will have some taste.
Stim Morane: I’m wondering how many of us are actually using the method.
Pia Iger: many, as per blog
Stim Morane: Anyway, it’s early days yet.
Stim Morane: I see. Good.
Pia Iger: nobody doing strictly, all quite loosely
Stim Morane: I’m curious to see how it works out.
Stim Morane: That’s fine.
stevenaia Michinaga: it may not be suited to all of us in the same way
Stim Morane: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: but may be adapted in other ways
Stim Morane: why not?
Stim Morane: it’s just an example
Stim Morane: did you just shrink?
Pia Iger: I start to enjoy taking notes.
Stim Morane: Notes are tricky. If you can do it, great!
Stim Morane: Sorry, Steven. I was just noting that on my monitor, your avatar suddenly shrank.
Pia Iger: I found some vision or idea coming up quite precious, so I wrote down. I know I will enjoy reading it later.
Stim Morane: It’s just a render glitch
stevenaia Michinaga: size is not important (says my wife)
:-). Athalicus joined the group, and Stim left. Pia was so kind as to check whether a chat log was being kept.
Stim Morane: Hi Athalicus
Pia Iger: Hi, there,
Stim Morane: sorry I mentioned it. I’m just so new to SL, everything fascinates me
Athalicus Brimm: Namaste.
Stim Morane: Anyway, gotta go. See you all again, I hope.
Pia Iger: See you.
Pia Iger: Steven, are you taking chatlog for tonight?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Pia Iger: ok. Rajah, How are you?
Rajah Yalin: I’m good
Pia Iger: have you started practice?
Rajah Yalin: yep
Pia Iger: any thoughts?
Rajah Yalin: sorry I have to go
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Rajah
Rajah Yalin: Namaste everyone
A 9-sec appearnce of Rajah?
Athalicus Brimm: Pia how long have you been practicing?
Pia Iger: a month or so.
Pia Iger: Just recently more frequent.
Pia Iger: How about you?
Athalicus Brimm: off and on for a few years now :)
Pia Iger: oh.
Athalicus Brimm: you could say buddhism has been flirting with me since I was 17 (11 yrs ago) yet I never offered it the engagement ring
Athalicus Brimm: lol
Pia Iger: what is holding you up?
Athalicus Brimm: as I said with the other group, being raised christian.. I like to do something 110% or nothing at all. so over the years it has been going down the buddhist path, and for some reason suddenly thinking about a christian hell/eternal punishment, and taking two steps back into church. a personal problem to be certain
Athalicus Brimm: yet tossing back and forth like on waves, has gotten me quite tired now some years later.. still have not found a good anchoring point yet.
Pia Iger: This may be your special path. Everyone is different. So don’t push yourself.
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, different but there is an eastern bias, since nothing really exists like this in western religions
Pia Iger: personally, ‘christian hell/eternal punishment” always turn me off.
Athalicus Brimm: I think that is good advice, but perhaps a bit late for my mind to grasp.. tried so hard twice in my life, wound up in the er.. I do not do drugs/alcohol/smoking, it was more a emotional thing I suppose, and the body just gave up
Athalicus Brimm: my christian youth teachings, battle with my passion/love for buddhist thought and way almost daily.
stevenaia Michinaga: remember, you have a lifetime to think about this, sometiems it;s about the path traveled, not the destination
Athalicus Brimm: if christianity did not say “it is us or nothing” it would not be a problem. I am envious of japanese people, who can be both christian/buddhist and feel no problem
Pia Iger: Steven, you are right. Maybe sometimes we are too eager to get somewhere.
stevenaia Michinaga: you can learn much on a slow walk
Pia Iger: I prefer spiritual groups with no dogma.
Reading this later, I felt touched by Atha’s frank descriptions of his feelings and reactions, and I hope we can talk about those more soon in another session.
Athalicus Brimm: not a matter of going somewhere as such philosophically. I am still dealing with this irrational fear of dying and going to hell for considering buddhism in my heart, as my former christian ministers taught me as a child “its the devils work.” etc etc
Pia Iger: They made so deep impression on you!
Athalicus Brimm: intellectually, and objectively, I can see it is nonsense. .makes no sense, death is just a gateway to another existence. yet add in panic/anxiety attacks I started having recently, and its a whole new thing
stevenaia Michinaga: shedding baggage that holds you and your personal potential back is alot of what I belive this place and thought is about
Pia Iger: Maybe you can take it loosely, while death is not here yet.
stevenaia Michinaga: in the end fearing death, or anything else gets you nothing
stevenaia Michinaga: just sidetracked in fear
Athalicus Brimm: I was able to slough it off before, but this new aspect of panic attacks which throws the mind into overdrive and thoughts of death.. all such nonsense, but knowing what it is, does not keep my body from betraying me lately
Athalicus Brimm: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps that is what your 9 seconds can be about
Pia Iger: I know physical pain is hard to face lightly.
Pia Iger: but it does propel you to search more, like coming to here.
Pia Iger: and try new things.
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Athalicus Brimm: yes, instead of staying in a room, bemoaning my fate or whining.. I have sought out my options.. and finding this place has been nice
Pia Iger: I was at Zen sitting too. and heard Bunan Bosatsu’s advice. it is quite inspiring too.
stevenaia Michinaga: I must be going, nice meeting you both, I will be forwarding the log to Pema, feel free to continue
Athalicus Brimm: take care, stevenaia
Pia Iger: see you, Steven.