The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The comments are by Bleu Oleander.

Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
Eliza Madrigal: 's current display-name is "Eliza".
Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Good morning Bleu :) Wearing your oleanders!
Bleu Oleander: my violets :)
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: Ohhh.... ok rewind... violets ^.^
Bleu Oleander: how's everything with you?
Eliza Madrigal: ups and downs and all arounds
Eliza Madrigal: you?
Bleu Oleander: pretty good for mid summer
Bleu Oleander: hot but not too bad today
Eliza Madrigal: so maybe outside a bit? summer here is almost unbearable during the day unless near the water
Eliza Madrigal: but it has worked out okay for me since it has been a working and reinvention sort of summer
Bleu Oleander: outside for a walk in the am but then inside until evening
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bleu Oleander: we work all summer so fits for me too
Eliza Madrigal: and how is work life?
Bleu Oleander: great busy
Eliza Madrigal: I wonder if there are ways to explore the phenomenology question with your group, too?
Bleu Oleander: there are and we have at times
Bleu Oleander: triggered by our discussions here
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Bleu Oleander: the phrase that I don't understand is when it it said that everything is "given" ... what is your take on that?
Eliza Madrigal: I think one has to also question "given" as having to be given *by* something or someone
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: given, as presenting, is more an open sense
Eliza Madrigal: presented/presenting
Eliza Madrigal: appearing
Bleu Oleander: even presented can be taken as presented by something or someone?
Eliza Madrigal: it can be taken that way... but down (which isn't factual but the best visual I have that speaks to me) farther, is open root
Eliza Madrigal: even Being/being can be taken as an entity
Eliza Madrigal: but doesn't have to be
Bleu Oleander: for me it relates more to attention
Eliza Madrigal: yes?
Bleu Oleander: the process of attention becomes awareness for me
Eliza Madrigal: on its own? as if organically?
Bleu Oleander: its a process but a process that i'm not aware of
Bleu Oleander: it just seems like things appear
Bleu Oleander: things can also appear to my unconscious too
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: the teacher I sometimes mention reading, longchenpa, writes in terms of "appearances AND possibilities"
Eliza Madrigal: as if there is no real difference
Bleu Oleander: in a sense thats right I think
Eliza Madrigal: tangibly, I've noticed that for me there are layers of things, thoughts, notions, vague impressions, traces... down to openness
Eliza Madrigal: and at some point that openness seems more awake or alive
Eliza Madrigal: doesn't wipe out or negate the things level either... but appreciates
Bleu Oleander: I don't make that distinction ... everything seems awake and alive when it comes into my attention ... not alive in the sense of having human-like consciousness but real for me in a way
Eliza Madrigal: I think I make the distinction because I feel the history of it... remember a time when there wasn't that liveliness
Eliza Madrigal: so it is kind of a tree ring thing
Bleu Oleander: how do you remember that?
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: I still know that girl, all those people, that I used to think of as myself, understand the way she/they felt
Eliza Madrigal: it isn't that there are clear lines but there is more than one kind of awareness at play
Eliza Madrigal: we're all so unique and peculiar in the way we reconcile or remember and experience ourselves in time
Bleu Oleander: for me its attention, a stance in the world, a focus and that can and does change over time
Eliza Madrigal: "focal settings" ?
Bleu Oleander: that sounds too mechanical
Eliza Madrigal: like you're in the opthamologist's office? :)
Bleu Oleander: we have different focuses at different times
Bleu Oleander: as a teenager we have much different focus than as a 3 year old or a 40 year old
Eliza Madrigal: quite
Bleu Oleander: none are better than the others for me just different
Eliza Madrigal: there is something having to do with inner and outer as well... meaning, my experience may be very different from what I understand of another's experience of my life/my phases of life... and when communicating, one is considering audience and often trying to speak from that
Bleu Oleander: sure
Eliza Madrigal: we understand that when others see is, they see persona at various times
Eliza Madrigal: us*
Bleu Oleander: hard to get thoughts from one head to another :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: is "attention" wrapped up with choice, for you?
Bleu Oleander: well on some level it is choice ... unconscious -- conscious ... and influenced by environment, mood, health, others etc.
Bleu Oleander: lots of things compete for attention ... what wins out becomes our awareness focus
Bleu Oleander: conscious awareness I should say
Bleu Oleander: we can be quite aware of things in our unconscious that affect our consciousness
Eliza Madrigal: intention and attention seem very close in your description
Eliza Madrigal: a slight turn can open a whole new view and a whole new world
Bleu Oleander: attention is a competition for the stage of conscious awareness -- could be intended in a conscious way or not
Eliza Madrigal: ah, I like that
Bleu Oleander: that's how I understand "given"
Eliza Madrigal: Right now in my life, integration of stages seems important to me in a way it didn't when I was younger.... panoramic awareness and inclusion of selves, all the various expressions and people related to those selves
--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: expanded awareness ... in a conscious sense?
Eliza Madrigal: there is some conscious intention, but that is also dependent on the opening for that conscious intention to arise... "giver and receiver are one"
Eliza Madrigal: can never really trace it back, because as one does it keeps referring back to the other, lol
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: a friend of mine is planning a visit to North Korea and I have been reading a bit about it .... something that wasn't in my conscious awareness
Eliza Madrigal: wow
Eliza Madrigal: there was a very good PBS special on N. Korea recently
Bleu Oleander: so have been thinking about the kinds of environments that nurture conscious awareness
Bleu Oleander: oh, i'll have to look it up
Eliza Madrigal: levels of freedom
Bleu Oleander: yes controlling minds
Bleu Oleander: via violence and food
Eliza Madrigal nods.... it takes place here also, in different ways
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: what may be most different is the possibilities and opportunities for awareness part
Eliza Madrigal: the underground of media is fascinating there
Eliza Madrigal: ...the rarity of having access to non govt controlled media, and how a taste of it works on the curiosity of people
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: several new books seems interesting to read
Bleu Oleander: http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...on-north-korea
Eliza Madrigal: clicks
Eliza Madrigal: thank you
Eliza Madrigal: here is the PBS link: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...f-north-korea/
Bleu Oleander: ah thanks!
Eliza Madrigal: I was fascinated by the fake grocery stores, for the sake of TV propaganda
Bleu Oleander: http://www.gq.com/news-politics/news...o-adam-johnson
Bleu Oleander: this was an amazing article
Bleu Oleander: yes, my friend thinks he's going to go behind the scenes ... I don't think so :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) what is his 'in'?
Bleu Oleander: no "in" really ... going with a tour group and then on his own with 3-4 guides
Bleu Oleander: so will see what they want him to see
Eliza Madrigal: Ohhh so he'll prob get the official tour
Eliza Madrigal: same happens in places like Cuba actually
--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: I think Cuba is more open now
Bleu Oleander: but yes
Bleu Oleander: he'll do a salon for us when he gets back
Bleu Oleander: and show what photos they allow him to take
Eliza Madrigal: I think so too...but there is an official route and... well, I guess for some places it makes sense if dealing with scarce resources... not always a matter of mind control like in N Korea
Eliza Madrigal: (re Cuba)
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: so a sort of programmed awareness?
Eliza Madrigal: look forward to hearing about that, Bleu
Bleu Oleander: yes will be in Sept.
Eliza Madrigal: image control :)
Bleu Oleander: on another subject ...
Bleu Oleander: i've been reading a good book ... "Middlemarch" ... have you read it?
Eliza Madrigal: omgoodness yes I have, but not for many years
Eliza Madrigal: Eos has read it as well I remember
Bleu Oleander: is considered the best English novel ever written by some ... somehow I missed it :)
Bleu Oleander: so catching up
Eliza Madrigal: I'm about to reread Jonathan Strange and Mr Norell, which is close to my favorite book. BBC is doing a miniseries of it, so I want to prepare.
Bleu Oleander: ah nice
Eliza Madrigal: :::tries to refresh memory about Middlemarch::: I do remember it was a pleasure to read..
Bleu Oleander: yes very interesting .... big theme is change which may relate to the idea of selves over time that we were talking about
Eliza Madrigal: I'll resist criticizing my memory but I will express some frustration that when I *want* to access things I often can't but then in unlikely moments it all comes up
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Eliza Madrigal: "lucid moments"
Bleu Oleander: exactly :)
Eliza Madrigal: is Middlemarch for pleasure or for salon? Or is there a difference? :)
Bleu Oleander: good question ... kinda the same thing :)
Bleu Oleander: but pleasure for sure
Bleu Oleander: unless we can find someone to speak about it
Eliza Madrigal: never know :)
Eliza Madrigal: how often do you do literary events?
Bleu Oleander: we do have a salon coming up related though
Eliza Madrigal: oh?
Bleu Oleander: Victorian spiritualism
Bleu Oleander: in Sept
Eliza Madrigal: oooo
Eliza Madrigal: tell me more
Bleu Oleander: professor in women's studies and literature
Bleu Oleander: so will report back :)
Bleu Oleander: Sept is shaping up to be a very interesting month for us
Eliza Madrigal: that sounds really neat
Eliza Madrigal: I'm sort of working my way to a lifestyle that will hopefully make more room for attending or co-instigating cultural events
Bleu Oleander: great!
Eliza Madrigal: being able to experience a kind of ideal possibility in SL at times, helps at unusual moments
Eliza Madrigal: or having experienced at times
Eliza Madrigal: not really much difference except for access, in some ways... appearance and possibilities :)
Bleu Oleander: yes sl can be like a lab for rl :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) exactly
Eliza Madrigal: I'd better go.. want to come back at 12 for Adams event
Bleu Oleander: oh yes me too
Bleu Oleander: I did take a look at his exhibition
Eliza Madrigal: looking so forward, like first day of summer
Bleu Oleander: a lot to read
Eliza Madrigal: yes usually have to go back in the middle of the night and take time with those exhibits
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: yes :)
Bleu Oleander: well fun to chat ... always enjoy it
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for such an interesting talk Bleu, always enjoy your company
Eliza Madrigal: see you later
Bleu Oleander: take care and yes c u later
Bleu Oleander: bye for now