2016.09.26 07:00 - Is hope evil?

The Guardian for this meeting was Eden Haiku. The comments are by Eden Haiku.

Adams, Riddle, Eden and Bleu

A morning walk

Eden Haiku: Good morning Riddle :)
Eden Haiku: Is the water cool?
Riddle Sideways: Eden
Riddle Sideways: yes
Riddle Sideways: not all cushion are equal
Eden Haiku: :)
Eden Haiku: Lived interesting adventures on my morning walk :)
Riddle Sideways: /listening
Eden Haiku: A flock of migrating ducks high in the sky: a beautiful ribbon of shapes and sounds...
Eden Haiku: And a deer where I didn't expect one, near a house.
Eden Haiku: My first reaction has been : "Oh! they have a statue of a deer on their lawn:)
Eden Haiku: But then, I realized it was a REAL deer.
Eden Haiku: Threw him my apple, it rolled down into the woods.
Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
Eden Haiku: I helped the deer to look it up
Eden Haiku: look for it rather:)
Riddle Sideways: hi Bleu
Eden Haiku: Hello Bleu:)
Bleu Oleander: good morning Eden and Riddle :)
Riddle Sideways: image of a deer looking up Apple
Eden Haiku: Telling my morning adventures; seeing a flock of birds and a deer :)
Bleu Oleander: nice :)
Eden Haiku: Yep :) Looking up in the dictionnaray or something :)
Riddle Sideways: also saw one deer (only) in the street eating along edge
Eden Haiku: We didn't find the apple but I took some photos and when I showed it to my companion, I noticed there was another deer looking at me from afar :)
Bleu Oleander: I can report no deer here :)

The poet Hesiod

Eden and Bleu

Eden Haiku: A salon maybe Bleu? Did you have one recently?
Bleu Oleander: we did ... last night
Bleu Oleander: on the poet Hesiod
Riddle Sideways: a (single) wild goose honking a speeding across the sky yesterday
Eden Haiku: Oh, the greek one who wrote fables?
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eden Haiku: A single goose calling others you think?
Bleu Oleander: striking how similar to near eastern myths
Eden Haiku: How so Bleu?
Riddle Sideways: "Observe due measure, for right timing is in all things the most important factor: - Hesiod
Eden Haiku: Good morning Adams!
Riddle Sideways: hi Adams
Bleu Oleander: hi Adams
Adams Rubble: Good morning Eden Riddle and Bleu :)
Bleu Oleander: many of the same elements in the myths
Eden Haiku: That’s a great quote Riddle, very true isn’it?
Bleu Oleander: we looked at his "Theogony" and his "Works and Days"
Eden Haiku: We are talking about a flock of birds, a deer, poet Hesiod and a single goose Adams.
Adams Rubble: ty
Bleu Oleander: its quite an account of how the Greek gods came into existence
Bleu Oleander: and how the world began
Bleu Oleander: you should read it!
Bleu Oleander: he was 8th century bce
Riddle Sideways: 'should' (an important word) put it in the pile to be read

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: so fascinating
Eden Haiku: I think Hesiod inspired most of the fable writers like La Fontaine. So I guess I know most of his stories through the French writer...
Bleu Oleander: are you thinking of Ovid?
Eden Haiku: No, Hesiod, his animal fables inspired La Fontaine in the 17th century or so
Bleu Oleander: I think that's Aesop?
Bleu Oleander: Works and Days is more practical advice for farmers
Eden Haiku: Oh right, I was mixing the two, of them, sorry:)
Bleu Oleander: and theogony is the story of the origins of the gods and the world
Bleu Oleander: was struck by how misogynistic it is ... did I spell that right?
Riddle Sideways: wondering how the 2 epics survived all those years. what was it written on?
Eden Haiku: Misogynistic Bleu, I trust it was. Tell us more?
Bleu Oleander: the story of Prometheus and Pandora is worth the read!
Eden Haiku: She opens her box and all the doom comes to the world :)

Bleu Oleander: the gods gave women to men and they brought evil with them
Bleu Oleander: but "hope" remains in the jar
Eden Haiku: Ah yes, we are troublemakers, it is well know. Grinning.

Is hope evil?

Bleu Oleander: we talked about whether that meant hope was evil?
Eden Haiku: Good question indeed: hope as evil.
Bleu Oleander: misogynistic ... better spelling :) [corrected our creative spelling]
Bleu Oleander: what do you think?
Eden Haiku: Misogynistic, thanks. Yes, I think hope is evil in a way.. But then what would we be without hope?
Bleu Oleander: Zeus giving birth from his head to Athena ... another very entertaining story :)
Bleu Oleander: is hope a false security of sorts?
Eden Haiku: Born with her shield and sword :)
Bleu Oleander: anyway I highly recommend reading the pieces
Adams Rubble: Zeus, he was huuuuuge
Bleu Oleander: gives quite a wide perspective
Bleu Oleander: really connects to the wisdom literature of the near east
Eden Haiku: We keep wishing things that are not meant to be I guess. We keep hoping. LIke with my estranged sister.In that way it is evil. It's not meant to be, or the timing is not right or whatever...
Bleu Oleander: one of the underlying themes is how the will of Zeus informs all of human experience with a single underlying meaning
Eden Haiku: What would be the underlying meaning?
Bleu Oleander: there is no good without evil and no profit without hardship ... just the will of Zeus
Riddle Sideways: so the thinking is that while one big White rich man is running everything there is no hope
Riddle Sideways: ? :)
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Eden Haiku: ;)
Bleu Oleander: very authoritative
Eden Haiku: Are you going to watch the debate tonite?
Riddle Sideways: maybe
Riddle Sideways: have the recorder set up
Bleu Oleander: yes I will
Adams Rubble: I will
Eden Haiku: Ah good, so you can skip....
Bleu Oleander: they expect 100 million or more to
Eden Haiku: I guess I will listen too
Riddle Sideways: have a bag of that good Trader Joes popcorn and watch the comics
Eden Haiku: In English cause the French voices over are unpalatable

--BELL--

Riddle Sideways: what? French unpalatable?
Bleu Oleander: I would think it would be best to listen the the real voices
Eden Haiku: It can be Riddle, it can be. When they talk recto tono in a deep voice...
Eden Haiku: Yes, especially with Obama. I will miss his eloquency.
Bleu Oleander: yes

100 million people watching

Eden Haiku: 100 million people watching these two human beings, wow!
Bleu Oleander: amazing to think about it
Eden Haiku: Amazing yes!
Bleu Oleander: pressure!!
Eden Haiku: Our destiny is in their hands in a way...
Eden Haiku: And not only for Americans, for the whole world...
Riddle Sideways: thanks for that scary thought
Eden Haiku: You are welcome :)
Riddle Sideways: pandora = hope
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Eden Haiku: Years and years ago, I read the predictions of the future by Pope John-Paul II. He had been a visionnary in his early career as priest. It said that at some point in time the president of USA would be a woman and the Pope at that time would be the last one....
Bleu Oleander: I think it was/is inevitable that a woman would become president
Adams Rubble nods
Eden Haiku: Yes, sure.
Eden Haiku: That a black man was elected first was quite unconceivable.
Bleu Oleander: now that we finally got the vote ... that took way too long!!!
Bleu Oleander: well blacks got the vote before women did
Eden Haiku: Right,...
Bleu Oleander: goes back to Hesiod LOL
Eden Haiku: We women are not too high on the scale of values...
Riddle Sideways: legally they got the vote and some got to register and vote
Riddle Sideways: Hesiod? the catalog?
Bleu Oleander: Hesiod and his evil women :)
Eden Haiku: Misogynistic views of Hesiod...
Riddle Sideways: oh the laying with gods stuff
Eden Haiku: LOL
Riddle Sideways: making heroes
Riddle Sideways: being indispensable

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: they say the Catalogue was written by a Hesiod imitator sometime in the 6th C
Riddle Sideways: "they say" is Mother-in-Laws' favorite phrase
Eden Haiku: :)
Bleu Oleander: how about "scholars say" ?
Riddle Sideways: She never uses that phrase
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eden Haiku: :)
Eden Haiku: Pandits say has a nice ring to it :)
Adams Rubble: I must go. I hope you all have a good day :)
Adams Rubble: bye for now
Eden Haiku: Bye Adams, have a great day too !
Riddle Sideways: ok, see ya
Bleu Oleander: must go too
Bleu Oleander: nice to see you all
Eden Haiku: Bye Bleu, have an excellent Monday!

Hope we will survive it

Riddle Sideways: Pundits say the debate is worth watching
Bleu Oleander: take care ... you too!
Riddle Sideways: by bleu
Bleu Oleander: :)
Riddle Sideways: have your best
Eden Haiku: Yes, hope we will survive it Riddle :)
Eden Haiku: With popcorn you might :)
Eden Haiku: I will drink red wine :)
Riddle Sideways: afraid, am getting and can remember hearing "hope we will survive it" many times before
Riddle Sideways: in campaign seasons
Riddle Sideways: would we servive Nixon
Eden Haiku: :)
Riddle Sideways: "abandon hope" was a big saying alos
Riddle Sideways: also
Eden Haiku: yes
Eden Haiku: Where would we be without hope?
Riddle Sideways: does that mean to gather up all the pandora particles back into the bottle?
Eden Haiku: Did you see this movie about a family in the tsunami? A couple and their two kids?
Riddle Sideways: put evil and hope away on the shelf
Riddle Sideways: no
Riddle Sideways: /listens
Eden Haiku: it’s impressive. They are scattered by the huge waves but find each other intact after a few days/weeks.
Eden Haiku: And it’s a true story.
Riddle Sideways: wow
Eden Haiku: Most people lost their loved ones but they didn't. Was it hope?O merely chance? "there is always hope"...

End of summer

Eden Haiku: I will miss again your session tomorrow Riddle but I will be able to attend in the next weeks, from Montreal:) It will be easier.
Eden Haiku: Hopefully :)
Riddle Sideways: end of summer time in the country?
Eden Haiku: Yes, moving back on Friiday. A busy week with cleaning, packing and so on. Still walking too :)
Riddle Sideways: and touching rock
Riddle Sideways: and the giving of apples
Eden Haiku: Listening to rock yes. Every day:)
Eden Haiku: And the giving of apples. Oh I will miss the dear deers :)

--BELL--

Riddle Sideways: might be hard, but there should be rock to listen to in the city
Eden Haiku: The weather was soooo good this summer. Now it's getting cold. 5 degrees this morning. But the sun warmed me up.
Riddle Sideways: ah, good
Riddle Sideways: we finally have summer here
Eden Haiku: Bringing a small stone from here. Easier :)
Riddle Sideways: hot the last 3 days
Eden Haiku: Oh, the rest of the summer was chilly, was it?
Eden Haiku: And the smoky skies...
Riddle Sideways: our june-auguest are cool
Riddle Sideways: yes, smoke came back
Eden Haiku: No climate theme on the debate tonite I think?
Eden Haiku: Only economy and security....
Riddle Sideways: a couple years ago, told Son to daily find a stone to meditate, listen, hold, whatever
Eden Haiku: You did, how wonderful:)
Riddle Sideways: forgot to tell him to set it free the next day
Riddle Sideways: he has been keeping them
Eden Haiku: Wow!
Riddle Sideways: huge boxes of them
Eden Haiku: What a good boy:)
Eden Haiku: Trusting his Dad's advice.
Riddle Sideways: lol, you have a way with words
Eden Haiku: You mean, my irony ?
Riddle Sideways: yes
Eden Haiku: I mean it in a nice way :)
Riddle Sideways: knowing that
Eden Haiku: Thanks:)
Riddle Sideways: good ending point
Eden Haiku: have a great day Riddle :)
Riddle Sideways: thanks, you too
Eden Haiku: Take care :)
Riddle Sideways: have your best day, which you already have