2014.03.27 13:00 - Birds, blame and bad jobs

The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi
Bruce Mowbray: Heya heya heya.
Bruce Mowbray: (Still getting rezzd, here.)
Aphrodite Macbain: :--)
Bruce Mowbray: I have been thinking about you ALL DAY!
Aphrodite Macbain: awww
Bruce Mowbray: Yes!
Aphrodite Macbain: good thoughts I hope
Bruce Mowbray: The most excellent thought, of course!
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: How did it go last night?
Aphrodite Macbain: I survived my ordeal
Bruce Mowbray: YESSSSSSSSSS!
Aphrodite Macbain: We had a good discussion
Aphrodite Macbain: grins
Bruce Mowbray: Of course!
Bruce Mowbray: THIS is your forte!
Aphrodite Macbain: It went all over the place, not surprisingly
Bruce Mowbray: Excellent!
Bruce Mowbray: all over the place is good.
Bruce Mowbray: Gives everyone a different perspective on the matter.
Aphrodite Macbain: The subject of human will, of course, came up
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
Aphrodite Macbain: and determinism
Bruce Mowbray: (Schopenhauer?)
Bruce Mowbray: please go ahead.
Aphrodite Macbain: If we are programmed in a certain way- how can we be blamed for what we do?
Bruce Mowbray listens....
Aphrodite Macbain: I know so little about this subject so I let the discussion go as it would
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi San!
Santoshima Resident: blamed by whom?
Santoshima Resident: hi!
Bruce Mowbray ponders robbing the local bank and blaming it on his "programming."
Bruce Mowbray: HEYA, San-ji!
Aphrodite Macbain: society I guess or in some cases, the jury
Santoshima Resident: blamed for what?
Aphrodite Macbain: Can we simply say- "It wasn't my fault; my somatic markers made me do it"?
Aphrodite Macbain: any action we take San
Santoshima Resident: hmm
Bruce Mowbray: We could just as easily say "All of the events in the universe leading up to this moment "made" me do it. That might be a "Buddhist" position, actually.
Santoshima Resident: not actually
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Aphrodite Macbain: Are we responsible for our actions, in other words, if we discover that so much happens unconsciously
Santoshima Resident: well,
Santoshima Resident: what else can one take responsibility for, if not one's own actions?
Santoshima Resident: doesn't leave much
Aphrodite Macbain: nope
Aphrodite Macbain: you should have been there last night San
Santoshima Resident: why?
Bruce Mowbray: That's why I put "Buddhist' in quotes, San. As with some Christians' calling our going to war in Vietnam a "Christian" thing to do (Cardinal Spellman -- who blessed the bombers with holy water, etc.)
Aphrodite Macbain: to contribute to the discussion- you might have found it interesting
Santoshima Resident: hmm
Bruce Mowbray listens.....
Santoshima Resident: possibly not ... I avoid crowds/and people in general
Santoshima Resident: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I do also, san.
Aphrodite Macbain: a lot of murderers get off the hook b/c a psychiatrist says they were sick and therefore not responsible for their actions
Bruce Mowbray: But I am SURE that Aph did an excellent job last night -- without both of us.
Santoshima Resident: of course!
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: NO PROPS for that gal!
Aphrodite Macbain: It was a bit overwhelming with 15 opinionated people discussing free will and determinism
Bruce Mowbray loves San-ji's purse/basket. Reminds him of the Wizard of Oz -- and Dorothy's basket.
Aphrodite Macbain: I feel very ignorant in this area
Santoshima Resident: came with the kimono
Aphrodite Macbain: looks for the yellow brick road
Aphrodite Macbain: how are you San?
Santoshima Resident: ok, thanks
Bruce Mowbray: Looks to me like this pavilion might be a circular yellow brick road.
Santoshima Resident: thinking about getting outside and cutting wood, now that rain is slowing
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh!
Aphrodite Macbain: round and round we go...
Bruce Mowbray: Good exercise!
Santoshima Resident: yep
Aphrodite Macbain: nothing like chopping in the rain
Santoshima Resident: not raining at present
Santoshima Resident: love these grey days
Santoshima Resident: water merges with sky
Aphrodite Macbain: do you?
Santoshima Resident: yep
Aphrodite Macbain: I get calm on grey days
Bruce Mowbray: Yes! I love them too, San. But not so many of them all in a row.
Santoshima Resident: hmm, yes, true
Aphrodite Macbain: but happy and energized on sunny days
Aphrodite Macbain: like the birds
Bruce Mowbray: We're still waiting for the first blade of grass back here in Ohio.
Bruce Mowbray: OH! YES!
Bruce Mowbray: A whole flock of red-winged blackbirds came to the birdfeeder today!
Aphrodite Macbain: birds seem to sing more loudly in the sunshine
Santoshima Resident: exciting
Santoshima Resident: same at the feeder here
Santoshima Resident: redwings
Santoshima Resident: juncos
Bruce Mowbray: THAT is a SURE sign that (1) spring is on its way , or (2) the blackbirds are crazy.
Bruce Mowbray: What do you think it is?
Santoshima Resident: some hummingbirds sighted
Aphrodite Macbain: wonder where they live in the winter..
Santoshima Resident: annas
Bruce Mowbray: OH MY!
Santoshima Resident: which?
Santoshima Resident: the hummers?
Bruce Mowbray: Hummingbirds, already!
Aphrodite Macbain: annas?
Aphrodite Macbain: ban?
Santoshima Resident: a type of hummer
Santoshima Resident: annas hummingbird
Aphrodite Macbain: oh- not the car kind I presume
Santoshima Resident: and a male rufus also sighted
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder if they are in the islands sooner
Santoshima Resident: annas make a fast sky high soar and drop suddenly to make a whistle sound with their tails
Santoshima Resident: incredible
Santoshima Resident: these were sighted in the city
Santoshima Resident: near the ocean park
Aphrodite Macbain: ah- I thought all hummingbirds did that
Aphrodite Macbain: a way of showing off to potential mates
Santoshima Resident: rufus make chipping noises
Bruce Mowbray: [back] are those swallows?
Santoshima Resident: sometimes to flush out other males ... territorial
Aphrodite Macbain: no hummingbirds
Bruce Mowbray: oh wow.
Aphrodite Macbain: for their size, they are amazingly strong
Bruce Mowbray: Hummingbirds can be VERY aggressive.
Santoshima Resident: they are fierce!
Aphrodite Macbain: Do you have a feeder for them San?
Santoshima Resident: sturdy, tiny ... gods
Bruce Mowbray: I am watching the goldfinches at the feeder right outside the window behind my computer -- right now.
Santoshima Resident: no feeder
Santoshima Resident: just salmonberry bushes
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Santoshima Resident: only starting to come into bloom
Bruce Mowbray: and notice that they are changing from dull greys to bright yellows.
Santoshima Resident: they eat insects
Bruce Mowbray: another sign of spring!
Santoshima Resident: lovely Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: It is, indeed, lovely.
Bruce Mowbray: and brings hope and joy to my soul.
Santoshima Resident: they do that, yes
Aphrodite Macbain: I don't think we get goldfinches here
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Santoshima Resident: house finches, Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: wish we did
Santoshima Resident: some goldfinches come through, though
Bruce Mowbray: That's why I have the feeder placed where it is. . . (Selfish of me, huh?)
Aphrodite Macbain: ah- same thing, different colour?
Aphrodite Macbain: no finches here yet
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, we also have house finches here -- with the reddish-tipped wings.
Santoshima Resident: ah
Aphrodite Macbain: we get purples and reds
Santoshima Resident: red-heads here
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, both purple and red.
Bruce Mowbray: at this exact moment, though, only goldfinches - four of them - on the feeder.
Aphrodite Macbain: I love their call--a trill that goes through many notes
Aphrodite Macbain: Mozart eat your heart out!
Bruce Mowbray hums Eine kline nacht music.
Bruce Mowbray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb_jQBgzU-I
Santoshima Resident: the music is a little sappy, but kudos to the farmer with the change of heart: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...52697895780299
Aphrodite Macbain: I can't tell whether the bird sounds I hear are from outside or in SL world
Bruce Mowbray: (( Same with me, Aph. The bird sounds could be from either world, which I love. ))
Zon Kwan: heya
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Zon
Bruce Mowbray: HEYA, Zon-ji!
Aphrodite Macbain: beautiful San - thanks
Santoshima Resident: hello Zon :)
Aphrodite Macbain: we are extolling the wonders of sunshine and birds
Bruce Mowbray: yes! and genetic conditioning that enables us to escape from responsibility.
Santoshima Resident: that seems a misunderstanding, Bruce
Santoshima Resident: there is no such thing as "escaping responsibility"
Santoshima Resident: nothing to escape
Santoshima Resident: no one to escape

Santoshima Resident: responsibility is a gift
Bruce Mowbray: I love that, San.
Bruce Mowbray: a "gift" brought to us through free will, then?
Bruce Mowbray: which would also be a "gift"?
Santoshima Resident: by our sponsor :)
Santoshima Resident: life
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Has anyone ever read books by JM Coetzee?
Bruce Mowbray: nope, not yet.
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm reading The Lives of Animals just now
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: The book asks us to stop killing animals...
Aphrodite Macbain: for food, for anything
Bruce Mowbray: I used to be part of a religious organization that said, "If we knew better, we'd DO better."
Zon Kwan: hm
Aphrodite Macbain: argued very powerfully
Santoshima Resident: yes, to the Coetzee question ... but haven't read The Lives of Animals
Bruce Mowbray: I used to like that, until I considered some of the implications.
Aphrodite Macbain: I know- it's not easy to do
Aphrodite Macbain: I was a vegetarian for 2 years
Zon Kwan: we can't live without killing some entities
Santoshima Resident: true
Bruce Mowbray: I am a vegan now, but why did you quit, Aph?
Aphrodite Macbain: we can but try
Santoshima Resident: circle of life
Aphrodite Macbain: laziness I think Bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: It was an emotional decision I made when I became one
Aphrodite Macbain: Coetzee argues that we should feel more and reason less
Aphrodite Macbain: nice t shirt Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: ty.
Aphrodite Macbain: and if we feel, we can empathize more
Aphrodite Macbain: with sentient beings at any rate
Bruce Mowbray: I feel that vegetarianism is something that one either becomes "ready" for - or does not.
Bruce Mowbray: It is NOT an intellectual  position, merely.
Aphrodite Macbain: no; exactly
Bruce Mowbray: In that sense, it is sort of like "religion" -- or perhaps a Vocation."
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: something that we feel we must do rather than think we must do
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Aph.
Bruce Mowbray: FEELthat we must do.,
Aphrodite Macbain: I may change my diet after reading this book!
Bruce Mowbray: Perfectly stated.
Aphrodite Macbain: that's what Coetzee says, not me...
Aphrodite Macbain: he compares the killing of millions of cattle to the killing of millions of Jews
Bruce Mowbray: HEYA, KORI!
Zon Kwan: hi Korel
Korel Laloix: Heya all
Bruce Mowbray: 
Korel Laloix: HOw have you all been?
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Kore.
Aphrodite Macbain: long time no see
Bruce Mowbray: (Kori arrives, just after I put on my vegan t-shirt. WHAT can this mean?)
Aphrodite Macbain: How are you? What have you been up to?
Korel Laloix: Just been silly busy.. more silly then normal really.
Zon Kwan: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: studying still?
Bruce Mowbray ponders "silly busy."
Korel Laloix: Well sort of... I graduated in December... just my new job is taking up much more of my time than I thought it would.
Aphrodite Macbain: Listens
Korel Laloix: So really cramming my brain with stuff... just not from formal study.
Korel Laloix: Stuff I need to know though.
Aphrodite Macbain: like?
Bruce Mowbray understands.
Korel Laloix: well.. my boss took some time off for skiing and ended up in the hospital.
Aphrodite Macbain: :-(
Korel Laloix: So I am sort of doing both of our jobs.
Bruce Mowbray: omg!
Bruce Mowbray: THAT's one quick way to learn!
Aphrodite Macbain: what is the job?
Korel Laloix: And... just when she left, we got a new contract. So I had to sort of prep things for the customer to look at our processes. So like learning way faster than I wanted to.
Korel Laloix: I am officially the lab's assistant safety officer.
Korel Laloix: But I means I sort of do all the admin parts.
Bruce Mowbray: Kori will keep the lab safe. no doubts on that score.
Korel Laloix smiles... I am slowly taking over...
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm. You're up to it, Kori.
Korel Laloix: Being bossy is my best hobby I am told..grins
Aphrodite Macbain: What kind of lab?
Korel Laloix: Medical analysis really.
Korel Laloix: With some other things as well.
Aphrodite Macbain: Do you enjoy it?
Korel Laloix: Not sure yet.. but too busy to tell.
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Korel Laloix: But I do like the people.... and the work seems meaningful.
Bruce Mowbray: Happy to hear that, Kori.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods-
Aphrodite Macbain: 2 things that make the job enjoyable
Korel Laloix: Thanks... smiles.... just having to adjust to some things to new way of living really.
Aphrodite Macbain: a life with a new schedule?
Korel Laloix: And being on call all the time as well.
Aphrodite Macbain: oh?
Korel Laloix: And less time off for now.
Bruce Mowbray: Having a new job that you're really committed to is like having a new life.
Korel Laloix: It does mark a large transition in my life I think.. much more than graduation.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Kori. I understand that.
Korel Laloix: The down side is that I have less time... and less time for SL at the moment.
Bruce Mowbray: (having transitioned through several jobs that I was deeply committed to.)
Aphrodite Macbain: but you are getting paid .... :-)
Bruce Mowbray: Well, I surely HOPE she's getting paid!
Korel Laloix: But my boss will be back in on Monday I think. So it should get better after that.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, the thing about a "good" job is that it "gets better."
Korel Laloix: Well, I am on by the hour, so they have been paying me a LOT of overtime the last two weeks. My boss is on salary so they just abuse her it seems.
Bruce Mowbray: The BAD jobs only get worse, while you're hoping they will get better.
Aphrodite Macbain: hmmm. do you think so Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: Do I think what, Aph?
Aphrodite Macbain: a good job gets better
Bruce Mowbray: oh yes.
Bruce Mowbray: Because you learn more and more, and go better and better at the job, so it gets better.
Aphrodite Macbain: I find that job conditions can change depending on people
Bruce Mowbray: IF it is a GOOD job, for YOU.
Aphrodite Macbain: other people
Korel Laloix: I have had a couple of bad jobs, but most of mine have been great.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, the relationships do change....
Korel Laloix: Working at a coffee shop down in Florida was the worst one by far.
Aphrodite Macbain: I have had many jobs that were great until a new boss came along
Bruce Mowbray: and then the job can switch quickly from GOOD job to BAD job.
Bruce Mowbray: I have experienced that, too.
Bruce Mowbray: oh yes.
Aphrodite Macbain: to one's adapting skills
Bruce Mowbray: Do you folks recall the "Peter Principle"?
Aphrodite Macbain: yup
Korel Laloix: Yes.
Bruce Mowbray: that a person rises to the level of in-competency?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Kori does.
Aphrodite Macbain: It can happen especially in corporations
Bruce Mowbray: and that's where the BAD bosses come from, alas.
Aphrodite Macbain: Zon- do you like your work?
Bruce Mowbray: So, stay mobile and fluid.
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Korel Laloix: Well, my boss when I worked at the university library was a horrid human being.... and they were not corporate.

Aphrodite Macbain: no. not JUST corporations
Korel Laloix: Not to mention my professors, who were not really great either.
Bruce Mowbray wonders if Zon-ji's t-shirt might be a photo of a former boss.
Aphrodite Macbain: I see u have removed your vegan t shirt
Bruce Mowbray: not really, just covered it up.
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Korel Laloix: Do you have a similar shirt in RL?
Bruce Mowbray: nope.
Aphrodite Macbain: He's probably just a little chilly
Korel Laloix: Chili sounds good right about now... smiles
Zon Kwan: sry, afkish, yes i have been lucky
Bruce Mowbray: oh yes, chili would be ... (NOT cool) warm right now.
Korel Laloix: Have some venison I need to cook up... maybe some chili.
Bruce Mowbray: omg, no veggi-ism for Kori!
Korel Laloix: That is a great idea... brb.. going to go get that thawing.. smiles
Aphrodite Macbain: you are all making me hungry - maybe vegetarian chili
Korel Laloix: I gave up beef for lent, so is venison cheating?.. smiles
Bruce Mowbray: oh yeah! Vegan chili!
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm glad you have a good job Zon
Bruce Mowbray: amazing what can be done in SL.
Aphrodite Macbain: If you spend half your waking hours in, it it's important to enjoy it
Bruce Mowbray: I am also glad for you, Zon. Since I had a few BAD jobs in my working days.
Korel Laloix: Going to be a lot of chili... a rather big block of ground.
Bruce Mowbray: But, alas, I need to be off... a-scraping up a vegan supper for my typist.
Korel Laloix: Enjoy your din Bruce.
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Bruce- say hi to the birds
Zon Kwan: waves
Santoshima Resident: bye bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: great talking with you
Santoshima Resident: et zon
Bruce Mowbray: I shall surely say HIIIIII to the birds!
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: Goodbye for now, good people!
Santoshima Resident: see ya
Aphrodite Macbain: bye
Korel Laloix: I like a lot of vegetarian food.. but I could not really do the vegan thing when I was dating Celeste.
Korel Laloix: ciao
Aphrodite Macbain watches Bruce and blub walk/swim off into the distance
Santoshima Resident: bye for now
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- it's hard when others you eat with aren't vegan too
Korel Laloix: Nice to see everyone again. I did miss these chats.
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye san
Korel Laloix: Dating a vegan is not really fun either.
Korel Laloix: Take care.
Aphrodite Macbain: Hugs
Aphrodite Macbain: great to see you again Kori
Korel Laloix smiles
Korel Laloix: ciao