The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray. The comments are by Bruce Mowbray.

Almadi Masala: hello
Bruce Mowbray: Hi!
Bruce Mowbray: Sorry I didn't see you there.
Almadi Masala: Is there a meeting here now?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, there is a mtg scheduled,
Bruce Mowbray: but I've been here every week for months, and no one except you has shown up for it.
Bruce Mowbray: Are you aware of Play as Being?
Almadi Masala: yes, I've been to a couple of Stevenaia's meetings
Bruce Mowbray: Great!
Almadi Masala: I'm very interested in what you are doing
Bruce Mowbray: Then you are aware that our logs as published . . .
Almadi Masala: yes, I have looked at your wiki website
Bruce Mowbray: We're about to begin a new "art of being" project...
Bruce Mowbray: with sculptures, like those you can see behind me.
Bruce Mowbray: Great!
Bruce Mowbray: I've been with PaB for about five years now.
Bruce Mowbray: Maybe 6 years, actually.
Almadi Masala: that's wonderful
Bruce Mowbray: We've just finished a fine project ...
Bruce Mowbray: Studying the Time, Space, and Knowledge book...
Bruce Mowbray: That discussion lasted for months!
Almadi Masala: yes, I saw that ... I have a copy of that book that I bought many years ago
Bruce Mowbray: and I think there have been two previous in-world PaB classes on it....
Bruce Mowbray: Wonderful!
Bruce Mowbray: I've read mine about six times, so far.
Bruce Mowbray: It looks like something that has been through a war zone.
Almadi Masala: I've just started to read it again
Bruce Mowbray: Every time I read it, I gain more insight into what Talku is trying to get across.
Almadi Masala: it is not easy to grasp, at least at first
Almadi Masala: for me anyway
Bruce Mowbray: Basically, I think he's walking us through a form of meditation. Step-by-step.
Bruce Mowbray: Did you do the Giant exercise?
Almadi Masala: and trying to open us to a different way of seeing reality, which is what I find fascinating
Bruce Mowbray: Indeed, it is fascinating.
Almadi Masala: the exercises are difficult for me ... I am not a very visual person
Bruce Mowbray: I understand.
Almadi Masala: I have trouble visualizing the exercises
Bruce Mowbray: This last time (when we had a class on it), some of us made visualizations as an art project - along with the chapters in the book.
Bruce Mowbray: My visualizations we mostly graphics programs that I wrote in Java.
Bruce Mowbray: So, it worked on several levels for me...
Bruce Mowbray: some very practical, and some very philosophical, some aesthetic.
Almadi Masala: interesting ... if there were a video illustrating the stages he describes, that might be quite helpful
Bruce Mowbray: Great idea!
Bruce Mowbray: If you have a sec, I could try to find some of my illustrations...
Bruce Mowbray: Don't want to hold you here, though.
Almadi Masala: sure
Bruce Mowbray: kk...
Bruce Mowbray: let me look....

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Here's one I did for Chapter Three.
Bruce Mowbray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94xVVVNPOFA
Almadi Masala: watching ...
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Almadi Masala: that is intriguing, thank you for sharing it
Bruce Mowbray: I received some pushback when I said that thoughts emerge "spontaneously...." and then spontaneously form themselves into "networks" -- which in the video I call "focal settings." (I used a lot of jargon from the book.)
Bruce Mowbray: I hope it was not too boring.
Bruce Mowbray: Do you have time for another one?
Almadi Masala: I will continue reading and looking at the discussion logs on the wiki
Almadi Masala: no, not boring at all
Bruce Mowbray: kk. I hope you do continue with it.
Almadi Masala: yes, I can stay for another one
Bruce Mowbray: I have one from Chapter 5, if you have the time.
Bruce Mowbray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8e5M2LcrZk
Bruce Mowbray: There it is -- a story.
Almadi Masala: I'm not that far in the book, but I'll watch it now
Almadi Masala: ah, wonderful story
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you!
Almadi Masala: I had a realization something like that once
Almadi Masala: I was sitting on the lakeshore, watching the waves and the clouds and the seagulls
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Almadi Masala: everything moving in different ways ....
Bruce Mowbray: Yes!
Almadi Masala: and then it suddenly seemed to me that it was just one movement
Bruce Mowbray: Infinitely many things happening in Great Space....
Bruce Mowbray: Yes!
Almadi Masala: not separate things all moving, but all one movement
Bruce Mowbray: Yes!

Bruce Mowbray: My personal feeling is that Talku is walking us through this meditation technique:
Bruce Mowbray: Dzogchen (Wylie: rdzogs chen) or "Great Perfection", also called Atiyoga, is a tradition of teachings in Tibetan Buddhism aimed at attaining and maintaining the natural primordial state or natural condition. It is a central teaching of the Nyingma school of Tibetan Buddhism and of Bon.
Almadi Masala: it was an inspiring moment
Bruce Mowbray: Indeed, the mere consideration of such is inspiring...
Almadi Masala: yes
Bruce Mowbray: And one goal of the book is to let us know this is "perfectly natural...."
Bruce Mowbray: as well as the easiest thing possible for minds to do.

--BELL--

 
Almadi Masala: I have practiced and studied Buddhism to some extent
Bruce Mowbray: During our discussions, I kept returning to the notion of Basic Goodness as a substrate for Being.
Bruce Mowbray: I have also studied Buddhism a bit -- and employ some of its meditation methods.
Almadi Masala: and also the writings of a western philosopher/psychologist named Eugene Gendlin

Almadi Masala: who has also presented a radically different model of reality

http://www.focusing.org/bios/gendlin_bio.html

Bruce Mowbray: When things get too strange or too difficult, I release it all to Basic Goodness -- feeling that the Cosmos at is very core - the Ground of Being, if you will - is "big and strong" enough to "hold" everything.
 Bruce Mowbray: Like your lake with all of its waves.
Almadi Masala: yes, a basic faith in the underlying goodness of being
Bruce Mowbray: It seems radically different to Western minds, for sure.
Bruce Mowbray: However, I feel that quantum physics comes closer every day to demonstrating that Talku's view is actually how it is.
Bruce Mowbray: Every moment in time is all time.
Bruce Mowbray: Every atom is the center of the universe - literally.
Almadi Masala: I am reading a book now about how quantum physics suggests that the underlying reality of the universe is consciousness
Bruce Mowbray: OH! PLEASE say more!
Almadi Masala: I've just started it, and it is slow going, but the argument is based on the experiments demonstrating non-locality of quantum processes
Bruce Mowbray: OK. Fascinating.
Bruce Mowbray: For the book, does consciousness = information?
Bruce Mowbray: or perhaps mathematics?
Almadi Masala: I'm not sure how they define it, I'm not very far into it
Bruce Mowbray: (Non-locality suggests a continuum, to me.)
Bruce Mowbray: That everything in some sense shares its being with everything else.
Almadi Masala: but they say that the underlying basis of reality is beyond the reach of conceptual knowledge and science
Bruce Mowbray: Like Indra's Net.
Bruce Mowbray: Well, by way of argument, then, although the basis of reality may be beyond conceptual knowledge,
Almadi Masala: in fact, I get the sense that their ideas about the basis of reality may be close to what Tarthang calls Great Space
Bruce Mowbray: wouldn't everything in space and time in some way be an out-picturing of that basic consciousness/reality?
Almadi Masala: yes, I think so

Almadi Masala: everything arises from a non-local reality that can not be pictured in terms of our spatialized perceptions of reality
Bruce Mowbray: I don't know if you're this far in the book yet,
Bruce Mowbray: but Talku likens Space to female and Time to male.
Bruce Mowbray: Time comes with an infinity of possibilities,
Bruce Mowbray: and Space offers receptivity to all of Time's possibilities.
Bruce Mowbray: I loved that analogy.
Almadi Masala: no, I haven't gotten to time in the book yet :)
Bruce Mowbray: Do you know who Steve Tainer is?
Almadi Masala: no I don't
Bruce Mowbray: In the intro to the book,
Bruce Mowbray: you will find Steve mentioned...
Bruce Mowbray: He is the guy (in Berkeley) who actually put Talku's ideas into English,
Bruce Mowbray: so, in effect, he wrote the book.
Almadi Masala: ok
Bruce Mowbray: I spent a week with him in Nova Scotia in 2011.
Bruce Mowbray: along with five others who were VERY into this sort of thinking.
Bruce Mowbray: WHAT an experience that was!
Almadi Masala: that must have been wonderful
Bruce Mowbray: It was, indeed.
Bruce Mowbray: I brought up the notion of male Time and female Space...
Bruce Mowbray: and Steve said he liked that analogy also.
Bruce Mowbray: I also asked him about "trust."
Bruce Mowbray: What part trusting our own experience might play in understanding the book's principles.
Bruce Mowbray: He immediately responded with something like,
Bruce Mowbray: "Trust is absolutely essential and at the core."
Almadi Masala nods
Bruce Mowbray: I like the notion that "This too is available to the One Mind."
Bruce Mowbray: so, every thought and every experience is in some ways available and valid.
Bruce Mowbray: "It's all true," as they say!
Bruce Mowbray: Ha ha.
Almadi Masala: yes
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Almadi Masala: there is so much here
Bruce Mowbray: I don't mean to be personal, but are you having trouble visualizing the Giant?
Almadi Masala: I wish I had more time to study and read
Almadi Masala: yes, that is difficult for me
Bruce Mowbray: kk, I think I understand.
Almadi Masala: I have trouble getting a context for it
Bruce Mowbray: The reason I asked is that a lot of folks have trouble with it,
Bruce Mowbray: but it's also really important to let it happen...

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Remember the movie "Fantastic Voyage"
Almadi Masala: is the giant floating in space? sitting on the ground?
Bruce Mowbray: The Giant could be anywhere your mind sees it to be.
Almadi Masala: I do remember that movie, and I think of it whenever I try to imagine the giant body
Bruce Mowbray: Great!
Almadi Masala: but the scale is very hard for me to get
Bruce Mowbray: So you make your focus very very tiny and go inside the Giant.
Almadi Masala: how to visualize my self in relation to the giant
Bruce Mowbray: go into the muscles, and dive smaller and smaller...
Almadi Masala: when I do that I lose sight of the whole
Bruce Mowbray: into the atoms and between the atoms....
Bruce Mowbray: Get very very small.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes!
Bruce Mowbray: That's part of the exercise --- recognizing that ANY focal setting will take you out of touch with the Whole.
Almadi Masala: well, I will continue to try
Bruce Mowbray: but for the sake of the Giant exercise itself, that's all right.
Bruce Mowbray: Learning to transcend our focal settings is a major theme of the book, I felt.
Bruce Mowbray: It sort of grows on one, I feel.
Almadi Masala nods
Bruce Mowbray: However, if you can imageine that every wave on your lake is actually one thing...
Almadi Masala: I will keep working with it
Bruce Mowbray: and if you can "see" that Basic Goodness is a substratum for all Being,
Almadi Masala: it was more than imagining ... I really felt it to all be one whole
Bruce Mowbray: then you're already a long long way ahead of the 'game,' in my opinion.
Bruce Mowbray: Indeed, it IS one whole.
Almadi Masala: only for a few moments, but it seemed real
Bruce Mowbray: as is the ocean.
Bruce Mowbray: Maybe that's because it IS real.
Bruce Mowbray: As Steve said, "Trust your experience."
Almadi Masala: there is something so important in all of this ... it feels like trying to wake up from a dream
Bruce Mowbray: I could not have stated it better!
Bruce Mowbray: Wonderful.
Bruce Mowbray: We are all in the process of waking,,,
Bruce Mowbray: I love that.
Almadi Masala: from the trance of everyday life
Bruce Mowbray nods, agrees.
Bruce Mowbray: and how quickly we fall asleep again!
Almadi Masala: we take everything for granted, but it is all actually an incredible mystery
Bruce Mowbray: Absolutely so.
Bruce Mowbray: A mystery of mysteries..
Bruce Mowbray: an infinite mystery, actually.
Almadi Masala: yes
Bruce Mowbray: Today when I went on my morning walk,
Bruce Mowbray: I listened to a podcast featuring a physicist explaining "infinite universes."
Bruce Mowbray: He was explaining it to Sam Harris, the well-known atheist author.
Bruce Mowbray: Fascinating and brilliant discussion.
Bruce Mowbray: I don't find the notion of infinite universes to be off-putting,
Bruce Mowbray: just the notion that some representation of ME could be found in each of them.
Bruce Mowbray: THAT I find quite implausible.
Bruce Mowbray: I will need to be gone at the top of the hour, so please contribute anything else that you'd care to,,,
Almadi Masala: one moment...
Bruce Mowbray: (I've probably talked too much, as usual.)
Bruce Mowbray: Please take all the time you need.
Almadi Masala: here is the book I was telling you about, about quantum physics:
Almadi Masala: https://www.amazon.com/Conscious-Uni...cious+universe
Almadi Masala: this has been a fascinating discussion
Bruce Mowbray: Wow.
Bruce Mowbray: Looks like a great book.
Almadi Masala: thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me
Bruce Mowbray: THANK YOU for being here today, Almadi.
Bruce Mowbray: My pleasure, indeed.
Bruce Mowbray: Have a beauty-filled weekend.
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now.
Almadi Masala: thank you, you too
Almadi Masala: :)