2009.08.09 19:00 - Three Tai Chi-er

The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

Doug Sosa joined me followed by Pila Mulligan

stevenaia Michinaga: hi doug
doug Sosa: hi indeed, sorry couldn't find my local chat button
stevenaia Michinaga: :)

--BELL--

doug Sosa: in my mind? no, on the computer screen ..:)
stevenaia Michinaga: was wondering what you were doing in the meadow before
doug Sosa: well, shy.
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, saw your hands move but no words appeared
doug Sosa: hm. and like the grass. what if this were grass in here?
stevenaia Michinaga: so what brought you back to PaB after such a long absence, someone planted some once, there an image on one of the wiki logs.. a few months back
stevenaia Michinaga: they were more like a field of wild flowers, quite nice
doug Sosa: the real reason is that i couldn't get on. My laptop was using an intel chip second life wasn't yet recognizing, so i was stuck. all well now. Also, the retreat. thought i should be more here.
doug Sosa: What was the reason to give up the wild flowers?
stevenaia Michinaga: awww, are you going?
doug Sosa: yes, its pretty close.
stevenaia Michinaga: nice
stevenaia Michinaga: not sure the reason for the flower appearance or disappearance, but it was an interesting change

We begin talking about the old Pavillion and the spaces

doug Sosa: I've always missed the intimacy of the old pavilion.
stevenaia Michinaga: the first tea house or the second?
doug Sosa: ah, second i thin, wit the openness to the stream.
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, the square pavilion with the railings
doug Sosa: yes.
stevenaia Michinaga: I have never sen this one filled up
stevenaia Michinaga: *seen
doug Sosa: i think i have but maybe not.
stevenaia Michinaga: but Storm did a nice job on this one
doug Sosa: terrific, but a little too solid for my taste in meditation.
stevenaia Michinaga: I'm sure he received much input on the design (like from me)
doug Sosa: hi pila
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Pila
Pila Mulligan: hi Doug and Steve
doug Sosa: pila we are talking about the space, and the old pavilion.. steve, what kind of input?
Pila Mulligan: this pavilion?
doug Sosa: and the one before.
Pila Mulligan: ah, pre-Pila :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I can;t remember them all, but a low wall around for a sense of closure w/ opening to walk through but also for seating
stevenaia Michinaga: space can be defined and implies as it is by the paving
stevenaia Michinaga: implied
doug Sosa: small, only a low able separating us. felt more intimate.
doug Sosa: the plants were closer
stevenaia Michinaga: the pond could be flush but then the additional pillows would be exposed

I review the commands with Pila and Doug as to how to control the fountain and pillows

stevenaia Michinaga: for instance (turns pool off)
doug Sosa: ah yes. I've seen this. i like it,
Pila Mulligan: voila
stevenaia Michinaga: all you had to do was ask
doug Sosa: feels more normal.
Pila Mulligan: how do you do it Steve?
doug Sosa: can there be a little water in the smaller fountain?

The magic incantation is revealed!

stevenaia Michinaga: personally I don;t like the tall fountain so I always make it low
Pila Mulligan: too bad it cannot sprinkle now, tho
stevenaia Michinaga: never seen it w/o the outer cushions
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: interesting how it affect the sense of the space w/o the outer cushions
Pila Mulligan: true
doug Sosa: better and better!
Pila Mulligan: much more open
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, for small groups, like this

--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: I'm contemplating how to build a small open outdoor meditation facility here in the RL rainforest where I live -- probably with a pond nearby
stevenaia Michinaga: all it takes sometimes is a change in floor texture to define a space within an environment
doug Sosa: the 90 sec seems longer to me.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: could be, relatively
stevenaia Michinaga: I'd be happy to help Pila, when can you fly me out .. grins
Pila Mulligan: any time except tomorrow
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Mary
Pila Mulligan: hi Mary
Mary Korpov: hi
doug Sosa: Pila, i've had a few chats with soprm about that.
Pila Mulligan: we have a tropical storm arriving tomorrow
Pila Mulligan: soprm?
stevenaia Michinaga: I saw that on the internet
doug Sosa: oh, bit RL wow. are you both in hawaii?
stevenaia Michinaga: have you been here before Mary?
Mary Korpov: yes
doug Sosa: sporm = Storm
stevenaia Michinaga: no, I;m in on the east coast :)
Pila Mulligan: oh :)
stevenaia Michinaga: have the disitability to do a project in Hawaii
stevenaia Michinaga: desirability
Pila Mulligan: I wish it was Storm instead of tropical storm visiting
doug Sosa: well, wen you fly to hawaii you can pick me up here in northern cal.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: you are always welcome
stevenaia Michinaga: sounds like a competing retreat

Pila mentions Tai Chi since we all practice

Pila Mulligan: Doug I was interested to read a chat log about your tai chi practice
Pila Mulligan: Steve also started doing tai chi recently
Pila Mulligan: I've done it for a while too
doug Sosa: yes?
Pila Mulligan: what style do you do, Doug?
Pila Mulligan: I do Wu style
doug Sosa: well, i think it is the short yang, but so dependent on teacher.
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I am on hiatus as my wife broke her ankle and I have little time for myself, so I do it in my back yard
Pila Mulligan: yes -- but yang is the most prevalent it seems
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, exactly Doug
Pila Mulligan: that counts Steve -- I hope your wife's ankle is healing well
stevenaia Michinaga: I hope so to... :)
doug Sosa: my wife tore a tendon in her ankle, on crutches after surgery. I too am the gofe, but she is so cute slowed down :)
stevenaia Michinaga: remind me never to run a household alone
Pila Mulligan: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: stairs are quite annoying
doug Sosa: gofe = gofer
Pila Mulligan: so two tai chier with ankle hobbled spouses
stevenaia Michinaga: but her office is upstairs
doug Sosa: we are on the edge of a rier and the tai chi seems part of the flow.
doug Sosa: river
stevenaia Michinaga: so I do tai chi more on my own, which is nice
Pila Mulligan: tai chi in low surf breaks is very fun
stevenaia Michinaga: I have a nice grassy yard
doug Sosa: we are all fortunate.
stevenaia Michinaga: or my cat get confused inside when I do it, and plays with my feet
Pila Mulligan: some people near here are interested in meditation so I was thinking of a small rl place for group practice
Pila Mulligan: like a gazebo
doug Sosa: animals sense that it something interesting. I used to lead a small group up on whdbey island, and a local cat used to come down and well, i can't say tried to do it, but certainly was present.
Pila Mulligan: cool
doug Sosa: The old pavilion too i think is available. i have some colleagues and would love to have a place to meet with them.
stevenaia Michinaga: when I was doing yoga it was nice to do instead of think about it, I;m still thinking about Tai Chi as I do it
Pila Mulligan: that will pass Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: I know, I feel the transition now
stevenaia Michinaga: in the parts I know
doug Sosa: well, part of tai chi is awareness. i especially like the cross body dialog. like noticing how the left hand and right foot stay in touch, or any other two parts.
Pila Mulligan: yep
stevenaia Michinaga: the weight change, the breathing
Pila Mulligan: I was thinking about the earlier here during the discussion on observing thoughts
Pila Mulligan: thoughts are often associated with a simultaneous physical sensation
stevenaia Michinaga: and the little voice that says, now this move breaks the opponent;s arm
doug Sosa: when i was leading that group i would talk it a bit using the day's chapter from lao tzu which i was learning to read in Chinese.
Pila Mulligan: why Steve :)
Pila Mulligan: I never thought such thoughts
stevenaia Michinaga: she touches on the martial aspect of the practice a bit
doug Sosa: nor i. tai chi is to avoid having to hurt.
Pila Mulligan: Lao Tse: I would rather withdraw a foot than advance an inch
stevenaia Michinaga: there is an advance class in weapons she teaches
doug Sosa: smiles
Pila Mulligan: swords
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Pila Mulligan: sword tai chi is cool
Pila Mulligan: I've never done it tho
stevenaia Michinaga: my interest is not in that aspect at the moment
doug Sosa: yes, i would like that, even if a bit out of character.

--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: [it mists!]
doug Sosa: friends, i must rise and go now...
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, nice that it does that w/o water
stevenaia Michinaga: nice talking to you Doug
Pila Mulligan: bye for now Doug, nice to see you
doug Sosa: bye.
stevenaia Michinaga: I've been slowly reading about aspects of Tao as time passes
stevenaia Michinaga: for me it;s a comforting as PaB :)
Pila Mulligan: it is appropriate to read about it slowly :)
Pila Mulligan: you've got the Tao Te Ching?
stevenaia Michinaga: like a warm sweater that fit
Pila Mulligan: yep
stevenaia Michinaga: mostly from internet sources
stevenaia Michinaga: seems there are many translations and much commentary
Pila Mulligan: yes indeed
Pila Mulligan: part of the beauty of it is the variety of interpretations
stevenaia Michinaga: but ti has been around a while
Pila Mulligan: yep

Tao homework for me emerges

Pila Mulligan: here's another classic -- http://www.iep.utm.edu/z/zhuangzi.htm
Pila Mulligan: first grab from Google about Chaung Tze
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks
Pila Mulligan: I was introduced to tai chi by Gia Fu Feng who wrote a popular translation of the tao te ching and also translated chaung tze's inner chapters
Pila Mulligan: http://www.amazon.com/Chuang-Tsu-Inner-Chapters-Companion/dp/1602371172/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1249871761&sr=8-4
Pila Mulligan: http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Te-Ching-25th-Anniversary-Mandarin_chinese/dp/0679776192/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1249871761&sr=8-2
stevenaia Michinaga: nice light reading I see
Pila Mulligan: :0
Pila Mulligan: actually it is
Pila Mulligan: hi Corvi
Pila Mulligan: how are you?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi Pila. I've missed you, good to see you.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm well.
Pila Mulligan: yes, same here, nice to see you
Corvuscorva Nightfire: How are you?
Pila Mulligan: I'm fine, if a little anxious about a tropical storm arriving here tomoroorw
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Pila Mulligan: but is looks like it will not be a big deal now
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm glad
Pila Mulligan: it was a category 4 hurricane last week
Pila Mulligan: me too
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Pila Mulligan: Steve was reflecting on the comforting aspect of taoist poetry
stevenaia Michinaga: there
Pila Mulligan: like the tao te ching
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: I was frozen for a moment
Pila Mulligan: welcome back :0
stevenaia Michinaga: seems like a philosophy of balanced contradictions
Pila Mulligan: yin and yang maybe --probably comlementary more so than contradictory
Pila Mulligan: but not the balanced in opposition
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, more correct
Pila Mulligan: balanced in opposition*
Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks..I think...that balance..not opposition is the key.
stevenaia Michinaga: and the need for a complement to define the other
Pila Mulligan: yes, but the contrast is also part of the interest
stevenaia Michinaga: no light w/o dark
Corvuscorva Nightfire: thinks..I think that may be more about "noticing"
Pila Mulligan: then there is the emphasis, or the lesson -- the yielding overcomes the firm, for example
stevenaia Michinaga: soft overcomes the strong
Pila Mulligan: [example: rock erosion by water]
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: much of that appears to be unnoticed in most beliefs

--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: Under heaven all can see beauty as beauty only because there is ugliness. All can know good as good only because there is evil. Therefore having and not having arise together.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: this is about what "appears"
Pila Mulligan: in the PaB sense, yes
Corvuscorva Nightfire: contrast is required to have appearance.
Pila Mulligan: contrast is also satisfying to the mental appetite
Pila Mulligan: the minds desire to describe
Pila Mulligan: but behind it all is the idea of emptiness
Corvuscorva Nightfire: exactly.
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, hard to have no contrast even in appearance
Corvuscorva Nightfire: the uncontrasted state..
Pila Mulligan: wu chi, in Chinese
Corvuscorva Nightfire: is interesting in itself..if we are quiet enough?
stevenaia Michinaga: like bening
stevenaia Michinaga: Being
Pila Mulligan: quiet is the real nourishment for the mind, even if it seeks something else
Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks about this.
stevenaia Michinaga: it does provide fertile ground for new thoughts to arise
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but what if we can be quiet truly quiet?
stevenaia Michinaga: I was thinking about this earlier
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Pila Mulligan: imagine yourself in a room looking at beautiful paintings and poems about Paris ...
Pila Mulligan: then realizing that the room itself is in Paris
Pila Mulligan: so you can step outside
Pila Mulligan: part is like thoughts
Pila Mulligan: part b is like real
stevenaia Michinaga: and about the Salk Institute, being built to have the ability of researched to see the ocean as part of their work environment
Pila Mulligan: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmmm......that's a fertile quiet imagining, Pila.
Pila Mulligan: another Chineses saying: All methods take their source in quietness. This marvelous magic cannot be fathomed
stevenaia Michinaga: as I believe it was when Salk was away from his research in a quiet environment when he came up with the polio vaccine

http://www.mindfuldesignconsulting.com/Ekaterina%20Kohlwes%20Thesis%20Document.pdf
(See the 3rd page)

Everybody gets amazed by the feelings this building gives, but not everybody knows

the story behind its creation. Professor Salk and architect Luis Kahn worked for an extended

period of time, designing and rejecting several proposals until the perfect space came to life.

Salk’s dream was to create an inspiring space as he himself had experienced. Sometime

before, frustrated with his unproductive research, Salk went to Italy and emerged himself into

architecture of an old monastery. Salk claimed that polio vaccine was invented under the

influence of that inspiring architecture. Designing the Institute, Salk and Khan were trying to

capture the essence of such space. Clean forms, exposed materials, repetition and rhythm

create a feeling of comfort, simplicity and a sense of total safety.

stevenaia Michinaga: from quiet comes great thinking
stevenaia Michinaga: which , of course, made me think of Pema and how all this interacts with science
stevenaia Michinaga: seemed to be a good example of science working outside the research environment and the appearance of solution (on vacation, for instance)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: allowing creative energy to appear in thoughts
stevenaia Michinaga: seems insight is never scientific :)
Pila Mulligan: but is can be in the context of science
Pila Mulligan: I agree, it is not a technical process
stevenaia Michinaga: we just pretends it obvious after the fact, or everyone would have thought of it
Pila Mulligan: not push button get insight
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: change environment, change perspective
Pila Mulligan: we are having the calm before the storm now, here -- it is like an archetype in itself
Pila Mulligan: very familiar, even if fairly infrequent
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: like the ironic eye of the storm, must be something other than physics at work

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: beauty in that
Pila Mulligan: yes
Pila Mulligan: Steve and Corvi, would you have time to visit the nice pavilion Nymf put on my PaB guardian plot?
Pila Mulligan: I'd like you to see it
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, would like that
Corvuscorva Nightfire: no..not yet..shall we repair there and check it out?
Pila Mulligan: I'll send you TPs
Corvuscorva Nightfire: grins
stevenaia Michinaga: ok