22-24 Eos in the heart of the season

 

December 22-24, 2009 Eos Scribing

2009.12.22 01:00 - Seeing avatars

Avatars and identity on TV and in PaB

Wester Kiranov: does anyone else have the feeling we are going OT just a tiny little bit?

Qt Core: we never go OT here at PaB ;-)

Calvino Rabeni: OK, how would we do "TV Drama" in a PaB-compatible way :)

2009.12.22 07:00 - Spin(s)

Riddle Sideways: Most of my morning has been thinking about 'Spin'

Riddle Sideways: the Spin we/they put on things

Riddle Sideways: positive spin to negative stuff

Riddle Sideways: the spin of You Seeing Yourself (as box/monk)

Riddle Sideways: Us Seeing you as [box/monk]

Riddle Sideways: you are stilll you

Riddle Sideways: we are still out here

Riddle Sideways: but your/my/our attitudes shift/spin

Riddle Sideways: dependent on Point of View

Riddle Sideways: When you flip open/on your phone and see a pink heart smiling at you

Riddle Sideways: does it change how you yell at the person you are calling?

2009.12.22 13:00 - Near Death Experience and Entropy

Zen Arado: one scientist said " our brain may be a receiver , not producer of consciousness'

Zon Quar: what do u think of them zen

Zon Quar: what is ur hyphothesis ? r they "real" ?

Zen Arado: well....I tend to think they are brain hallucinations

Zon Quar: why

Zon Quar: do u think consciousness is only in physical brain ?

Zen Arado: haRD TO SAY EXACTLY WHEN THE BRAIN STOPS AT CLINICAL DEATH

Zon Quar: energy doesn't vanish

Zon Quar: consciosuness is energy

Zen Arado: sorry not very good explanation

Zen Arado: should have taken notes

Zon Quar: so why couldn't it move on

Zon Quar: like energy

Zen Arado: yes exactly Zon

Zon Quar: logical to me

Zen Arado: why restrict it to our brain?

Zon Quar: more logical than it would just evaporate and vanish

2009.12.22 19:00 - I Contain Multitudes

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: How was that?

Eos Amaterasu: I think I was appreciating the space of preoccupation :-)

Calvino Rabeni: I was dropping various agendas, then started thinking about your comment Eos "relating to that inner place from which awareness and action come"

Archmage Atlantis: A question laden with ambiquity "How was that?"

Calvino Rabeni: Yes, appreciation is a good "tool"

Calvino Rabeni: Ambiguous questions are a give of flexibility, much as people seem to object

Eos Amaterasu: That might be a good starting point to talking about facilitation

Eos Amaterasu: For example, first you have an idea or glimpse

Eos Amaterasu: that there is something worth cultivating

Eos Amaterasu: and then you realize there is a way to cultivating it

Eos Amaterasu: and then you cultivate it

Calvino Rabeni: Yes - a personal decision to oneself

Eos Amaterasu: that's a personal journey

Calvino Rabeni: Trust in oneself

Eos Amaterasu: the question is how a group can make such a journey

Calvino Rabeni: And then another stage, trust that it is something to put into the public space

Calvino Rabeni: in some form

Eos Amaterasu: Yes, that trust is trust in yourself

Calvino Rabeni: Yes

Eos Amaterasu: (at least toleration of yourself :-)

Calvino Rabeni: :)

Eos Amaterasu: which means you can relax more, and see more, and care about what you experience

Eos Amaterasu: and include others in that

Calvino Rabeni: Yes

Eos Amaterasu: Part of it is realizing the contribution you make to the situation

Calvino Rabeni: And less of it would be the agendas of self-suspicion that people carry sometimes

Calvino Rabeni: Yes

Eos Amaterasu: so both some cynicism to and some acceptance of yourself

Eos Amaterasu: seeing clearly but being merciful :-)

Calvino Rabeni: Indeed

Eos Amaterasu: if you can do that to yourself you can do it with others

Calvino Rabeni: and vice versa

Eos Amaterasu: Maybe a facilitator can see that inner place in those myths

Eos Amaterasu: which is seeing what inspires people in them

Eos Amaterasu: and see that that inspiration may come through the myth but is not actually tied to it

Paradise Tennant: brainstorming after a fashion where .. ideas ..bloom ..

Calvino Rabeni: Some traditions say creative energy and sexual energy are linked

Eos Amaterasu: sex is sublimated creation

Calvino Rabeni: The attraction being - to create something together in the world

Calvino Rabeni: and see it become independent of each of them

Calvino Rabeni: Of course authors have noted the link - e.g. that real sex cuts down their creative production

Archmage Atlantis: Note to self: Avoid authors

Eos Amaterasu: "creativity from the emotional aftermath of romance".... can u say more, Para?

Calvino Rabeni: listens

Paradise Tennant: well many many wonderful songs, stories are borne of heart ache something about the intensity of the pain I think .. the fact that is so common ..so humane ..makes for a path to that shared space :)

Calvino Rabeni: My take, is, the romance includes an experience of Beauty

Archmage Atlantis: New note to self: Seek artists and authors on the rebound *grin*

Archmage Atlantis: It is always my first question to a recently met spiritual teacher, after I get to know them a bit, ...."Does suffering have meaning or purpose?"

Paradise Tennant: great question arch

Eos Amaterasu: Hopefully they sing you a song :-)

Archmage Atlantis: Yes, often one finds that in those who have split themselves into parts that do not negotiate......one part may control and not feel the discomfort caused to the other parts

Calvino Rabeni: nice point

Storm Nordwind nods

Calvino Rabeni: and consume a lot of energy in the process

Calvino Rabeni: a self-facilitation may involve those multiple parts

Eos Amaterasu: we contain multitudes

Eos Amaterasu: (Whitman?)

Calvino Rabeni: Similar to group facilitation, in principle

Calvino Rabeni: Whitman.

Calvino Rabeni: "Do I contradict myself? Then I contradict myself. I contain multitudes"

Eos Amaterasu: Maybe that's a great theme for next 90 secs :-)

Eos Amaterasu: The most powerful thing is that we are able to share 90 secs across space and time and personality

Eos Amaterasu: it's the surface thing, in a way: just this simple thing

Eos Amaterasu: "leader" is a trigger word

Eos Amaterasu: but

Eos Amaterasu: it starts with being leader of yourself :-)

Eos Amaterasu: (back to that inner place and its culitvation)

2009.12.23 01:00 - the war within

Calvino Rabeni: Ah, I call myself something like that - sometimes I say "warrior monk" but the rough stuff is in the past.

Calvino Rabeni: Unless you count leaving my hermit den, the warrior activity :)

Bolonath Crystal: hm, the world outside the den is sometimes more or less war-like

Bolonath Crystal: but i try not to hide too much ;)

Calvino Rabeni: my master used to tell me, the true war is within :)

Bolonath Crystal: well, the inner conflicts are at least worth winning

Bolonath Crystal: in my opinion individuals are merely the ego-carriers, at which perceptions crystallise to form universes. the pure being is oneness

Calvino Rabeni: hmm

Bolonath Crystal: a strange opinion?

Calvino Rabeni: no, I don't think it strange

Bolonath Crystal: most people do ;)

Calvino Rabeni: I'm not sure I understand the implications though

Bolonath Crystal: well, one of the most important implication is that i harm myself if i harm others

Bolonath Crystal: if you think of ego as something you have - not as something you are - nobody will be able to harm you

Calvino Rabeni: hmmm

Calvino Rabeni: I don't believe in ego, so I guess no one can harm me, except

Calvino Rabeni: if they believe in it, and they feel they have harmed me, then that is not good for them to have done that and believed that

Calvino Rabeni: No one truly wants to be a harmer

Bolonath Crystal: so you can help others by letting no one harm you :)

Calvino Rabeni: that makes sense to me

2009.12.23 07:00 - The Year of Loving Kindly

Eliza Madrigal: That's how I'm approaching the New Year... finding expansiveness within limitations 

Eden Haiku: ;-) 

Zen Arado: vocabulary 

Eden Haiku: Ah beautiful. I have been thinking about a New Year resolution. 

Eden Haiku: Yours is beautiful Eliza. 

Eliza Madrigal: I find that one of the most interesting things here is that there are so many overlaps in languages that we talk in the gaps sometimes 

Eden Haiku: Yes, we do . 

Eliza Madrigal: amidst our typos and vocabularies, et 

Eden Haiku: Sometimes I do usually in the week before January 1st is to list my accomplishments of the year past.

Eden Haiku: What I do is I list 100 of my accomplishments (took that in a makeover book somewhere, My boyfreind and I have been doing this for years now and we read our lits to each other, 

Eden Haiku: Yes, it is a list of all the little, minute accomplishments of daily life as well as the biggest one. And then it covers work but also relationships, organization, material matters and so on. 

Storm Nordwind: mindfulness, thankfulness, and a willingness to be shown - I think those have been the most precious accomplishments that carry me everywhere, every day

Eliza Madrigal: Your comment Storm, reminds me of my daughter telling me that 'meditating has made you mischevious" 

2009.12.23 13:00 - Inner guides

Calvino Rabeni: He [Osho / Rajneesh] didn't get enough respect while alive

Zon Quar: and he had one feature i like that is missing in many teachings

Calvino Rabeni: but now has good reputation in India, I believe

arabella Ella: which is Zon?

Zon Quar: sense of humour

arabella Ella: what do you think of the concept of inner guides?

Storm Nordwind: Many years ago I used to do healing with the White Eagle Lodge. They specifcally and deliberately work with angels

Storm Nordwind: If you have some small level of vision like me, you can see them

arabella Ella: see them?

arabella Ella: or sense them?

Storm Nordwind: Sure see them. Most people can sense. A few can see

arabella Ella: that is so amazing

Zon Quar: logical to me

Storm Nordwind: But like most people, they can choose (to some extent) whether you see them!

Calvino Rabeni: But I do think of imagination as a sense organ

Calvino Rabeni: yes

Storm Nordwind: It shapes and can be shaped

2009.12.23 19:00 - Children Play

Calvino Rabeni: tai chi and jazz have a lot in common

Calvino Rabeni: with PaB and phenomenology

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, all new yet familiar to me

Calvino Rabeni: There's a pretty good tai chi literature

Calvino Rabeni: but it doesn't make any sense unless one practices

stevenaia Michinaga: interesting thing about it there are many variations

stevenaia Michinaga: so the teacher keeps you returning

Calvino Rabeni: I've been asking people - where in their lives do they have a skill that involves improvisation

Calvino Rabeni: Tai Chi is preparation for that

stevenaia Michinaga: I suspect it will take years to get to that point, like jazz

Calvino Rabeni: No, it is best to do it immediately. However, mastery takes years

Calvino Rabeni: The jazz musicians study chords, theory

Calvino Rabeni: but also get "in the zone"

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, a nice place to be

2009.12.24 01:00 - Traditions and God

Zen Arado: but Jesus said very hard things too

Bertram Jacobus: what for example ?

Zen Arado: about giving all your money away to the poor and following him

Bertram Jacobus: ah yes. i tried that. very difficult

Bertram Jacobus: what made you leave the buddhist path and change to advaita bolo

Bolonath Crystal: advaita is more philosophy than religion, bert

Bolonath Crystal: but it is mainly influenced by buddhism

Bertram Jacobus: what is the difference between religion and philosophy in your understanding bolo ?

Bolonath Crystal: somehow i think, that advaita is more buddha's way than buddhism

Bertram Jacobus: for me, religion means linked to absolute, philosophy not -

Bertram Jacobus: i like to correct myself : philosophy less or seldom (linked to the absolute)

Zen Arado: my impression is that it emphasizes 'no self' more Bolo ?

Bolonath Crystal: well, indian philosophy is always linked to religion

Bertram Jacobus: ups. sry

Bolonath Crystal: in tibetan buddhism there is a lot of praying. that is not what buddha wanted imo

Zen Arado: yes I don't understand prayer in Buddhism

Bertram Jacobus: it´s like white magic i thought today ...

Bertram Jacobus: which is black in the end too

Bolonath Crystal: advaita is more... hm... 'scientific'

Bolonath Crystal: buddhists say 'all is emptyness'. advaitins say 'all is brahman'. but actually brahman and emptyness is identical

Bolonath Crystal: absence of perceptional characteristics

Bolonath Crystal: bert: i'd never have found my way to advaita without buddism :)

Zon Quar: and noself is same as no perment separate I

Bertram Jacobus: but brahman is very dangerous because all the misunderstandings - no ?

Bolonath Crystal: yes, bert. just like 'emptyness'

Zon Quar: all words can be missunderstood..lol

2009.12.24 07:00 - When worlds collide

Storm Nordwind: I was wondering a few minutes ago about 'atmosphere'...

Adams Rubble listens

Storm Nordwind: I was driving my wife to work and wondering whether I would sense the same or a similar feeling in the air as I usually do in the UK on Christmas Eve

Adams Rubble: Big change for you

Storm Nordwind: I wondered how objective it was, or whether I was just imagining the whole thing!

Adams Rubble: and what did you find?

Storm Nordwind: I found there's something there, yes, but that it's different. Less 'childlike'.

Adams Rubble: Was that a surprise?

Storm Nordwind: ha! no I guess not!

Storm Nordwind: The sense of wonder is tempered with acquisitiveness!

Storm Nordwind: There is a 50% Malay population who are all Muslim there. 25% are Chinese and the rest are Indian. So there is a mix of Islam, Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism and Chinese folk religion

Zen Arado: does this cause friction?

Storm Nordwind: None of them seem to dumb down, but rather they dance around each other in more of a mutual tolerance, each keeping authentic

2009.12.24 13:00 - Hearts and homelessness

Calvino Rabeni: I think, noticed, what we have is relative

SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, thinking about homeless implies you have a sense of home in the first place

Calvino Rabeni: and what we fear is relative to what we have

Calvino Rabeni: in a way the hobos made themselves more at home

Eliza Madrigal nods to Sharon... very true

SophiaSharon Larnia: no true homeless here, can't log easily into SL ,looks around> :)

Liza Deischer: I think we shouldn't underestimate what it means to be homeless

Eliza Madrigal: Of course not, Liza

SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Liza

Wol Euler nods

Liza Deischer: and you can ask yourself which homeless state was first

Eliza Madrigal: but seeing how thin the lines are, is very helpful... most think of homelessness as something so far away

Liza Deischer: because I think a lot of people lost ther heart before they lost there home

Calvino Rabeni: that is poignant, Liza, a strong statement

Wol Euler: yes, that might even come first I think.

Wol Euler: losing their home because they lost heart

Liza Deischer: losing contact with society

Liza Deischer: with themselves

Calvino Rabeni: Are they equal, the give / receive equation?

Calvino Rabeni: As in john lennon's song perhaps

Wol Euler smiles. I think it's imbalanced in a positive way, because the giver receives too

Wol Euler: 1+1=3

Liza Deischer: i agree

iza Deischer: still thinking about our discussion today, i think that being able to make contact with yourself, without negative critisism and a lot of generosity as Ara says, is the main step

Calvino Rabeni: I find I carry forward with the ponderings of this circle, after they end

arabella Ella nods

Liza Deischer: seeing your own flaws without critisising them but seeing them for what they are

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Wol Euler: absolutely, liza

2009.12.24 19:00 - The Hour of the Wolf

Paradise Tennant: Yes for Agatha it is 3 am .. so .. nothing too taxing

Agatha Macbeth: 3.35 now :)

Paradise Tennant: :)

Eos Amaterasu: approaching the hour of the wolf

Eos Amaterasu: :-)

Agatha Macbeth: Awooooooooooooooo

Eos Amaterasu: werewolves of london

Paradise Tennant: 4 am is the hour of the wolf ?

Agatha Macbeth: Know em well

Eos Amaterasu: Yes.... according to an Ingmar Bergman movie

Agatha Macbeth: Who did the song?

Eos Amaterasu: I like the Ellen MacIlwaine version

Agatha Macbeth: Can't remember now

Eos Amaterasu: Warren Zevon originally

Agatha Macbeth: Ah yes!

Agatha Macbeth: Thx Eos

Eos Amaterasu: there's a magic quality this time of year

Agatha Macbeth: Yep

Eos Amaterasu: year turning around

Eos Amaterasu: in the dark, lit up with points of light

Eos Amaterasu: Songs are like a certain kind of suspension in an emotional moment

Archmage Atlantis: Our mind is a wonderful gift, and a curse

Eos Amaterasu: we have no choice but to use our mind to deal with our mind

Eos Amaterasu: mind/heart, or heart/mind, I should say

Eos Amaterasu: music is a lot about knowingness through emotion, through heart

Paradise Tennant: yes nods

Paradise Tennant: very true

Eos Amaterasu: How is that a curse, Arch?

Archmage Atlantis: to see, is to wish better things for others

Archmage Atlantis: Yet that is not in my power

Eos Amaterasu: there's an unrequitedness to our actions, to our heart

Archmage Atlantis: Thus to know truth is a curse, and a joy

Eos Amaterasu: "For deep in my heart I know there is no help I can bring." (To Ramona, Bob Dylan)

Paradise Tennant: :)

Archmage Atlantis: Yes, Eos, deep in the heart it is

Eos Amaterasu: give up all possibility of fruition

Paradise Tennant: lovely