22-24 Eos in the heart of the season

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    December 22-24, 2009 Eos Scribing

    2009.12.22 01:00 - Seeing avatars

    Avatars and identity on TV and in PaB

    Wester Kiranov: does anyone else have the feeling we are going OT just a tiny little bit?

    Qt Core: we never go OT here at PaB ;-)

    Calvino Rabeni: OK, how would we do "TV Drama" in a PaB-compatible way :)

    2009.12.22 07:00 - Spin(s)

    Riddle Sideways: Most of my morning has been thinking about 'Spin'

    Riddle Sideways: the Spin we/they put on things

    Riddle Sideways: positive spin to negative stuff

    Riddle Sideways: the spin of You Seeing Yourself (as box/monk)

    Riddle Sideways: Us Seeing you as [box/monk]

    Riddle Sideways: you are stilll you

    Riddle Sideways: we are still out here

    Riddle Sideways: but your/my/our attitudes shift/spin

    Riddle Sideways: dependent on Point of View

    Riddle Sideways: When you flip open/on your phone and see a pink heart smiling at you

    Riddle Sideways: does it change how you yell at the person you are calling?

    2009.12.22 13:00 - Near Death Experience and Entropy

    Zen Arado: one scientist said " our brain may be a receiver , not producer of consciousness'

    Zon Quar: what do u think of them zen

    Zon Quar: what is ur hyphothesis ? r they "real" ?

    Zen Arado: well....I tend to think they are brain hallucinations

    Zon Quar: why

    Zon Quar: do u think consciousness is only in physical brain ?


    Zon Quar: energy doesn't vanish

    Zon Quar: consciosuness is energy

    Zen Arado: sorry not very good explanation

    Zen Arado: should have taken notes

    Zon Quar: so why couldn't it move on

    Zon Quar: like energy

    Zen Arado: yes exactly Zon

    Zon Quar: logical to me

    Zen Arado: why restrict it to our brain?

    Zon Quar: more logical than it would just evaporate and vanish

    2009.12.22 19:00 - I Contain Multitudes


    Eos Amaterasu: How was that?

    Eos Amaterasu: I think I was appreciating the space of preoccupation :-)

    Calvino Rabeni: I was dropping various agendas, then started thinking about your comment Eos "relating to that inner place from which awareness and action come"

    Archmage Atlantis: A question laden with ambiquity "How was that?"

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, appreciation is a good "tool"

    Calvino Rabeni: Ambiguous questions are a give of flexibility, much as people seem to object

    Eos Amaterasu: That might be a good starting point to talking about facilitation

    Eos Amaterasu: For example, first you have an idea or glimpse

    Eos Amaterasu: that there is something worth cultivating

    Eos Amaterasu: and then you realize there is a way to cultivating it

    Eos Amaterasu: and then you cultivate it

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes - a personal decision to oneself

    Eos Amaterasu: that's a personal journey

    Calvino Rabeni: Trust in oneself

    Eos Amaterasu: the question is how a group can make such a journey

    Calvino Rabeni: And then another stage, trust that it is something to put into the public space

    Calvino Rabeni: in some form

    Eos Amaterasu: Yes, that trust is trust in yourself

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes

    Eos Amaterasu: (at least toleration of yourself :-)

    Calvino Rabeni: :)

    Eos Amaterasu: which means you can relax more, and see more, and care about what you experience

    Eos Amaterasu: and include others in that

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes

    Eos Amaterasu: Part of it is realizing the contribution you make to the situation

    Calvino Rabeni: And less of it would be the agendas of self-suspicion that people carry sometimes

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes

    Eos Amaterasu: so both some cynicism to and some acceptance of yourself

    Eos Amaterasu: seeing clearly but being merciful :-)

    Calvino Rabeni: Indeed

    Eos Amaterasu: if you can do that to yourself you can do it with others

    Calvino Rabeni: and vice versa

    Eos Amaterasu: Maybe a facilitator can see that inner place in those myths

    Eos Amaterasu: which is seeing what inspires people in them

    Eos Amaterasu: and see that that inspiration may come through the myth but is not actually tied to it

    Paradise Tennant: brainstorming after a fashion where .. ideas ..bloom ..

    Calvino Rabeni: Some traditions say creative energy and sexual energy are linked

    Eos Amaterasu: sex is sublimated creation

    Calvino Rabeni: The attraction being - to create something together in the world

    Calvino Rabeni: and see it become independent of each of them

    Calvino Rabeni: Of course authors have noted the link - e.g. that real sex cuts down their creative production

    Archmage Atlantis: Note to self: Avoid authors

    Eos Amaterasu: "creativity from the emotional aftermath of romance".... can u say more, Para?

    Calvino Rabeni: listens

    Paradise Tennant: well many many wonderful songs, stories are borne of heart ache something about the intensity of the pain I think .. the fact that is so common ..so humane ..makes for a path to that shared space :)

    Calvino Rabeni: My take, is, the romance includes an experience of Beauty

    Archmage Atlantis: New note to self: Seek artists and authors on the rebound *grin*

    Archmage Atlantis: It is always my first question to a recently met spiritual teacher, after I get to know them a bit, ...."Does suffering have meaning or purpose?"

    Paradise Tennant: great question arch

    Eos Amaterasu: Hopefully they sing you a song :-)

    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, often one finds that in those who have split themselves into parts that do not negotiate......one part may control and not feel the discomfort caused to the other parts

    Calvino Rabeni: nice point

    Storm Nordwind nods

    Calvino Rabeni: and consume a lot of energy in the process

    Calvino Rabeni: a self-facilitation may involve those multiple parts

    Eos Amaterasu: we contain multitudes

    Eos Amaterasu: (Whitman?)

    Calvino Rabeni: Similar to group facilitation, in principle

    Calvino Rabeni: Whitman.

    Calvino Rabeni: "Do I contradict myself? Then I contradict myself. I contain multitudes"

    Eos Amaterasu: Maybe that's a great theme for next 90 secs :-)

    Eos Amaterasu: The most powerful thing is that we are able to share 90 secs across space and time and personality

    Eos Amaterasu: it's the surface thing, in a way: just this simple thing

    Eos Amaterasu: "leader" is a trigger word

    Eos Amaterasu: but

    Eos Amaterasu: it starts with being leader of yourself :-)

    Eos Amaterasu: (back to that inner place and its culitvation)

    2009.12.23 01:00 - the war within

    Calvino Rabeni: Ah, I call myself something like that - sometimes I say "warrior monk" but the rough stuff is in the past.

    Calvino Rabeni: Unless you count leaving my hermit den, the warrior activity :)

    Bolonath Crystal: hm, the world outside the den is sometimes more or less war-like

    Bolonath Crystal: but i try not to hide too much ;)

    Calvino Rabeni: my master used to tell me, the true war is within :)

    Bolonath Crystal: well, the inner conflicts are at least worth winning

    Bolonath Crystal: in my opinion individuals are merely the ego-carriers, at which perceptions crystallise to form universes. the pure being is oneness

    Calvino Rabeni: hmm

    Bolonath Crystal: a strange opinion?

    Calvino Rabeni: no, I don't think it strange

    Bolonath Crystal: most people do ;)

    Calvino Rabeni: I'm not sure I understand the implications though

    Bolonath Crystal: well, one of the most important implication is that i harm myself if i harm others

    Bolonath Crystal: if you think of ego as something you have - not as something you are - nobody will be able to harm you

    Calvino Rabeni: hmmm

    Calvino Rabeni: I don't believe in ego, so I guess no one can harm me, except

    Calvino Rabeni: if they believe in it, and they feel they have harmed me, then that is not good for them to have done that and believed that

    Calvino Rabeni: No one truly wants to be a harmer

    Bolonath Crystal: so you can help others by letting no one harm you :)

    Calvino Rabeni: that makes sense to me

    2009.12.23 07:00 - The Year of Loving Kindly

    Eliza Madrigal: That's how I'm approaching the New Year... finding expansiveness within limitations 

    Eden Haiku: ;-) 

    Zen Arado: vocabulary 

    Eden Haiku: Ah beautiful. I have been thinking about a New Year resolution. 

    Eden Haiku: Yours is beautiful Eliza. 

    Eliza Madrigal: I find that one of the most interesting things here is that there are so many overlaps in languages that we talk in the gaps sometimes 

    Eden Haiku: Yes, we do . 

    Eliza Madrigal: amidst our typos and vocabularies, et 

    Eden Haiku: Sometimes I do usually in the week before January 1st is to list my accomplishments of the year past.

    Eden Haiku: What I do is I list 100 of my accomplishments (took that in a makeover book somewhere, My boyfreind and I have been doing this for years now and we read our lits to each other, 

    Eden Haiku: Yes, it is a list of all the little, minute accomplishments of daily life as well as the biggest one. And then it covers work but also relationships, organization, material matters and so on. 

    Storm Nordwind: mindfulness, thankfulness, and a willingness to be shown - I think those have been the most precious accomplishments that carry me everywhere, every day

    Eliza Madrigal: Your comment Storm, reminds me of my daughter telling me that 'meditating has made you mischevious" 

    2009.12.23 13:00 - Inner guides

    Calvino Rabeni: He [Osho / Rajneesh] didn't get enough respect while alive

    Zon Quar: and he had one feature i like that is missing in many teachings

    Calvino Rabeni: but now has good reputation in India, I believe

    arabella Ella: which is Zon?

    Zon Quar: sense of humour

    arabella Ella: what do you think of the concept of inner guides?

    Storm Nordwind: Many years ago I used to do healing with the White Eagle Lodge. They specifcally and deliberately work with angels

    Storm Nordwind: If you have some small level of vision like me, you can see them

    arabella Ella: see them?

    arabella Ella: or sense them?

    Storm Nordwind: Sure see them. Most people can sense. A few can see

    arabella Ella: that is so amazing

    Zon Quar: logical to me

    Storm Nordwind: But like most people, they can choose (to some extent) whether you see them!

    Calvino Rabeni: But I do think of imagination as a sense organ

    Calvino Rabeni: yes

    Storm Nordwind: It shapes and can be shaped

    2009.12.23 19:00 - Children Play

    Calvino Rabeni: tai chi and jazz have a lot in common

    Calvino Rabeni: with PaB and phenomenology

    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, all new yet familiar to me

    Calvino Rabeni: There's a pretty good tai chi literature

    Calvino Rabeni: but it doesn't make any sense unless one practices

    stevenaia Michinaga: interesting thing about it there are many variations

    stevenaia Michinaga: so the teacher keeps you returning

    Calvino Rabeni: I've been asking people - where in their lives do they have a skill that involves improvisation

    Calvino Rabeni: Tai Chi is preparation for that

    stevenaia Michinaga: I suspect it will take years to get to that point, like jazz

    Calvino Rabeni: No, it is best to do it immediately. However, mastery takes years

    Calvino Rabeni: The jazz musicians study chords, theory

    Calvino Rabeni: but also get "in the zone"

    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, a nice place to be

    2009.12.24 01:00 - Traditions and God

    Zen Arado: but Jesus said very hard things too

    Bertram Jacobus: what for example ?

    Zen Arado: about giving all your money away to the poor and following him

    Bertram Jacobus: ah yes. i tried that. very difficult

    Bertram Jacobus: what made you leave the buddhist path and change to advaita bolo

    Bolonath Crystal: advaita is more philosophy than religion, bert

    Bolonath Crystal: but it is mainly influenced by buddhism

    Bertram Jacobus: what is the difference between religion and philosophy in your understanding bolo ?

    Bolonath Crystal: somehow i think, that advaita is more buddha's way than buddhism

    Bertram Jacobus: for me, religion means linked to absolute, philosophy not -

    Bertram Jacobus: i like to correct myself : philosophy less or seldom (linked to the absolute)

    Zen Arado: my impression is that it emphasizes 'no self' more Bolo ?

    Bolonath Crystal: well, indian philosophy is always linked to religion

    Bertram Jacobus: ups. sry

    Bolonath Crystal: in tibetan buddhism there is a lot of praying. that is not what buddha wanted imo

    Zen Arado: yes I don't understand prayer in Buddhism

    Bertram Jacobus: it´s like white magic i thought today ...

    Bertram Jacobus: which is black in the end too

    Bolonath Crystal: advaita is more... hm... 'scientific'

    Bolonath Crystal: buddhists say 'all is emptyness'. advaitins say 'all is brahman'. but actually brahman and emptyness is identical

    Bolonath Crystal: absence of perceptional characteristics

    Bolonath Crystal: bert: i'd never have found my way to advaita without buddism :)

    Zon Quar: and noself is same as no perment separate I

    Bertram Jacobus: but brahman is very dangerous because all the misunderstandings - no ?

    Bolonath Crystal: yes, bert. just like 'emptyness'

    Zon Quar: all words can be missunderstood..lol

    2009.12.24 07:00 - When worlds collide

    Storm Nordwind: I was wondering a few minutes ago about 'atmosphere'...

    Adams Rubble listens

    Storm Nordwind: I was driving my wife to work and wondering whether I would sense the same or a similar feeling in the air as I usually do in the UK on Christmas Eve

    Adams Rubble: Big change for you

    Storm Nordwind: I wondered how objective it was, or whether I was just imagining the whole thing!

    Adams Rubble: and what did you find?

    Storm Nordwind: I found there's something there, yes, but that it's different. Less 'childlike'.

    Adams Rubble: Was that a surprise?

    Storm Nordwind: ha! no I guess not!

    Storm Nordwind: The sense of wonder is tempered with acquisitiveness!

    Storm Nordwind: There is a 50% Malay population who are all Muslim there. 25% are Chinese and the rest are Indian. So there is a mix of Islam, Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism and Chinese folk religion

    Zen Arado: does this cause friction?

    Storm Nordwind: None of them seem to dumb down, but rather they dance around each other in more of a mutual tolerance, each keeping authentic

    2009.12.24 13:00 - Hearts and homelessness

    Calvino Rabeni: I think, noticed, what we have is relative

    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, thinking about homeless implies you have a sense of home in the first place

    Calvino Rabeni: and what we fear is relative to what we have

    Calvino Rabeni: in a way the hobos made themselves more at home

    Eliza Madrigal nods to Sharon... very true

    SophiaSharon Larnia: no true homeless here, can't log easily into SL ,looks around> :)

    Liza Deischer: I think we shouldn't underestimate what it means to be homeless

    Eliza Madrigal: Of course not, Liza

    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Liza

    Wol Euler nods

    Liza Deischer: and you can ask yourself which homeless state was first

    Eliza Madrigal: but seeing how thin the lines are, is very helpful... most think of homelessness as something so far away

    Liza Deischer: because I think a lot of people lost ther heart before they lost there home

    Calvino Rabeni: that is poignant, Liza, a strong statement

    Wol Euler: yes, that might even come first I think.

    Wol Euler: losing their home because they lost heart

    Liza Deischer: losing contact with society

    Liza Deischer: with themselves

    Calvino Rabeni: Are they equal, the give / receive equation?

    Calvino Rabeni: As in john lennon's song perhaps

    Wol Euler smiles. I think it's imbalanced in a positive way, because the giver receives too

    Wol Euler: 1+1=3

    Liza Deischer: i agree

    iza Deischer: still thinking about our discussion today, i think that being able to make contact with yourself, without negative critisism and a lot of generosity as Ara says, is the main step

    Calvino Rabeni: I find I carry forward with the ponderings of this circle, after they end

    arabella Ella nods

    Liza Deischer: seeing your own flaws without critisising them but seeing them for what they are

    Wol Euler: mmhmm

    Wol Euler: absolutely, liza

    2009.12.24 19:00 - The Hour of the Wolf

    Paradise Tennant: Yes for Agatha it is 3 am .. so .. nothing too taxing

    Agatha Macbeth: 3.35 now :)

    Paradise Tennant: :)

    Eos Amaterasu: approaching the hour of the wolf

    Eos Amaterasu: :-)

    Agatha Macbeth: Awooooooooooooooo

    Eos Amaterasu: werewolves of london

    Paradise Tennant: 4 am is the hour of the wolf ?

    Agatha Macbeth: Know em well

    Eos Amaterasu: Yes.... according to an Ingmar Bergman movie

    Agatha Macbeth: Who did the song?

    Eos Amaterasu: I like the Ellen MacIlwaine version

    Agatha Macbeth: Can't remember now

    Eos Amaterasu: Warren Zevon originally

    Agatha Macbeth: Ah yes!

    Agatha Macbeth: Thx Eos

    Eos Amaterasu: there's a magic quality this time of year

    Agatha Macbeth: Yep

    Eos Amaterasu: year turning around

    Eos Amaterasu: in the dark, lit up with points of light

    Eos Amaterasu: Songs are like a certain kind of suspension in an emotional moment

    Archmage Atlantis: Our mind is a wonderful gift, and a curse

    Eos Amaterasu: we have no choice but to use our mind to deal with our mind

    Eos Amaterasu: mind/heart, or heart/mind, I should say

    Eos Amaterasu: music is a lot about knowingness through emotion, through heart

    Paradise Tennant: yes nods

    Paradise Tennant: very true

    Eos Amaterasu: How is that a curse, Arch?

    Archmage Atlantis: to see, is to wish better things for others

    Archmage Atlantis: Yet that is not in my power

    Eos Amaterasu: there's an unrequitedness to our actions, to our heart

    Archmage Atlantis: Thus to know truth is a curse, and a joy

    Eos Amaterasu: "For deep in my heart I know there is no help I can bring." (To Ramona, Bob Dylan)

    Paradise Tennant: :)

    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, Eos, deep in the heart it is

    Eos Amaterasu: give up all possibility of fruition

    Paradise Tennant: lovely

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