2009.12.24 13:00 - Hearts and homelessness

Wol Euler was guardian for this session, filling in for Lia. Comments will be added later.

 

Wol Euler: hello calvino

Wol Euler smiles at your title ("anything will do nicely")

Calvino Rabeni: gday wol

--BELL--

Wol Euler: hello bertram

Bertram Jacobus: hi u 2 and merry christmas ...

Calvino Rabeni: Ah, keyboard connected, can make language now :)

Calvino Rabeni: Hello, Bert

Wol Euler grins

Wol Euler: that's a very interesting avatar, bert.

Bertram Jacobus: ty wol. in which way you find it intersting ?

Calvino Rabeni: (zooms in for a look)

Wol Euler: a) very different from your usual look; and b) unusual in itself

Bertram Jacobus: okay. ty again :-)

Bertram Jacobus: and hello eliza and sophia ! ... :-)

Bertram Jacobus: and liza ! ... :-)

Liza Deischer: hi all

Calvino Rabeni: What does the av mean to you, Bert?

Calvino Rabeni: Hi Liza

Wol Euler: hello liza, eliza, sophia

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol, Cal, Bert, Liza, Sharon! :)

Bertram Jacobus: oh. the greetings to sophia were to early. so now again : hy sophia ! ... ;-)

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi everyone :)

Eliza Madrigal: :) I saw the tail walking first

Wol Euler: helo sophia

SophiaSharon Larnia: :)

Liza Deischer: hi sophia

Eliza Madrigal: Pleasant travels, Wol?

Bertram Jacobus: good question cal ! a bit desperation ... saw some pics from former times with my latest girlfriend ...

Wol Euler: very pleasant, thank you!

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Wol Euler: is that a "state of your soul" avatar, Bert?

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Bertram Jacobus: always

Bertram Jacobus: aren't avatars always state of our souls avas ?

Wol Euler: well, yes I suppose so :)

Calvino Rabeni: Yes, but which part?

Wol Euler: at least for those of us who see them that way, tehy are.

Bertram Jacobus: yes

Calvino Rabeni: That is like asking, is Style superficial or deep?

Bertram Jacobus: and cal - may be a kind of summary

Bertram Jacobus: i would say - can be both

Eliza Madrigal: Some days superficial, some days deep :)

Wol Euler nods

Calvino Rabeni: Bert, at first, it wasn't rezzed, your av looked more zombie, but when completed, reminded me of Work and Art

Eliza Madrigal: Some days the book just feel comfortable and look cute... some days they bring out a strength needed for an occasion... heeh

Eliza Madrigal: *boots

Calvino Rabeni: And the way, in past eras, those were closely connected

Eliza Madrigal: hm, books on the brain :)

Wol Euler: :)

Bertram Jacobus: where i found it, it is called "homeless person" cal - but i did not put on all. some perts i find silly

Eliza Madrigal: Merry Christmas Ya :)

Wol Euler: hello yakuzza

Bertram Jacobus: hey ! :-) yaku ! ... ;-)

Wol Euler: merry christmas, one and all (to coin a phrase)

SophiaSharon Larnia: merry Christmas Yakuzza :)

Liza Deischer: Hi Yaku

Liza Deischer: homeless person in which centary

Calvino Rabeni: In past times, I have heard, work used to make people dirty

Wol Euler chuckles.

SophiaSharon Larnia: lol

Bertram Jacobus: looked to me liek actual liza ...

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Calvino Rabeni: no more, the pixels dont rub off on the body

Wol Euler: some jobs are still pretty dirty.

Calvino Rabeni: just on the soul

Calvino Rabeni: or mind

Calvino Rabeni: but if future people could see that they might be concerned

Eliza Madrigal is here forcing herself to stop cooking... not the cleanest job :)

Wol Euler: :)

Eliza Madrigal: Well, if one does it right... hahaha

Bertram Jacobus: but the thing on my head liza ... would not wonder if that reminds you at the mid age perhaps ... (?) ;-)

Calvino Rabeni: Can I get a Pixel Apron to keep them from getting on me?

Eliza Madrigal: :)))

Liza Deischer: well, that is what i was looking at

Bertram Jacobus: looking at myself again - i got that idea liza ... ;-)

Calvino Rabeni: But I like that the "homeless" theme generates talk in SL

Liza Deischer: but i only looked at the superficial surface

Liza Deischer: i agree :)

Calvino Rabeni: Do people still do "camping" in SL? It seems a zombie-like state, for the SL-homeless who have no Lindens

Bertram Jacobus: still one minute to the 90 seconds ...

Wol Euler: what shall we pause about?

Eliza Madrigal: Ohhh the hobo community?

Bertram Jacobus: that was my thought too and i had no idea

Eliza Madrigal: (wasn't a suggestion, sorry-heh)

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: will do ni

Bertram Jacobus: "nothingness" perhaps ? ... ;-)

Calvino Rabeni: I went with ELiza's non-suggestion, "the hobo community"

Eliza Madrigal grins... how so, Cal?

Bertram Jacobus: and what happend with it cal ?

Calvino Rabeni: :)

Calvino Rabeni: as my tag line today says ...

Wol Euler nods

Calvino Rabeni: It started with, that is somewhere else - the hobo camp nearby

Calvino Rabeni: not me,

Calvino Rabeni: then I remembered they are starting to work for the people

Calvino Rabeni: out of a desire to give back or relate or whatever

Calvino Rabeni: but it isn't necessary

Calvino Rabeni: that led to thinking about "what I have" and "could drop"

Calvino Rabeni: and some PaB dropping occurred.

Wol Euler smiles.

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Liza Deischer: eh....hobo community?

Calvino Rabeni: I think, noticed, what we have is relative

SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, thinking about homeless implies you have a sense of home in the first place

Calvino Rabeni: and what we fear is relative to what we have

Calvino Rabeni: in a way the hobos made themselves more at home

Eliza Madrigal nods to Sharon... very true

SophiaSharon Larnia: no true homeless here, can't log easily into SL ,looks around> :)

Calvino Rabeni: Liza the hobo community is a large camp of homelesss people who move around to different places in this city and are semi-organized chaotically

Eliza Madrigal: Well the lines around "hobos" and various communities aren't always straight forward... we make homes where we go perhaps... build and undo our nests all the time

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Liza Deischer: hnx

Liza Deischer: thnx

Wol Euler: interesting to consider taht one might be without a "home" in the sense of support and community and nesting

Wol Euler: but still have a roof over one's head

Wol Euler: and also vice versa.

SophiaSharon Larnia: nods

Eliza Madrigal nods

Calvino Rabeni: True Wol

Eliza Madrigal: many homeless mansion-eers

Wol Euler: mhmm

Eliza Madrigal: in that sense

Wol Euler: I was talking earlier to a friend who has had a split with her family, seems to be about to lose her relatives due to their unwillingness to accept her as she is

SophiaSharon Larnia: this is the very worst time of year for people without a sense of home

Wol Euler: she's feeling very much without a home, though physically sheltered and comfortalbe

Eliza Madrigal: Oh :(

Calvino Rabeni: I used to feel that Sophia, but no more

Calvino Rabeni: luckily

Eliza Madrigal: And yesterday I sat with a woman feeling the absence of her parents as though she lost them just yesterday.. though it has been years

Wol Euler nods

Calvino Rabeni: homes can be made as well as lost

Eliza Madrigal: The thing is, that she missed them.. that they were/are so significant... is a blessing... so even the pain something to appreciate

Calvino Rabeni: but not as easily as just going shopping

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Wol Euler: home is not something you can buy.

Wol Euler: though you can be given it :)

Eliza Madrigal thinks of the chaos she's been in and we sure appear to be trying

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Calvino Rabeni: interestingly yes

Eliza Madrigal: "we" as a culture, etc

Bertram Jacobus: i like franz zappas words : "home is where your heart is" ...

Bertram Jacobus: frank*

SophiaSharon Larnia: i like home is where you hang your hat :)

Eliza Madrigal: hm, and funny to turn that around... heart is where your home is :)

Wol Euler: (Franz is his cousin, plays accordion in a kletzmer band)

Eliza Madrigal: hahahahah

Bertram Jacobus: tz ;o)

Bertram Jacobus: lolsmile*

Bertram Jacobus: more smile then lol

Calvino Rabeni: Owl, you are a hoot

Calvino Rabeni: *Wol

Eliza Madrigal giggles

Liza Deischer: I think we shouldn't underatimate what it means to be homeless

Wol Euler whaps you with a cushion

Calvino Rabeni: heh

Eliza Madrigal: Of course not, Liza

SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Liza

Wol Euler nods

Liza Deischer: and you can aks yourself which homeless state was first

Eliza Madrigal: but seeing how thin the lines are, is very helpful... most think of homelessness as something so far away

Liza Deischer: because I think a lot of people lost ther heart before they lost there home

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: that is poignant, Liza, a strong statement

Wol Euler: yes, that might even come first I think.

Wol Euler: losing their home because they lost heart

Liza Deischer: losing contact with society

Liza Deischer: with themselves

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Bertram Jacobus: yes liza ...

Eliza Madrigal: a soft note...

Eliza Madrigal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4D40r-E7yk

Bertram Jacobus: *click*

Wol Euler listens

Liza Deischer: also listening

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ara :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Arabella

Liza Deischer: hi ara

arabella Ella: Hiya

Wol Euler: hello ara, merry christmas

arabella Ella: merry christmas to all of you too!

Bertram Jacobus: hi arabella ! ... :-)

Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Ara :))

Bertram Jacobus listens to billy joels "honesty" ...

Eliza Madrigal: :) Difficult to stop with just one Bert

Wol Euler: :)

Bertram Jacobus: ("sic"!) ...

Eliza Madrigal: (Didn't mean to sidetrack the conversation to youtube... apologies)

Wol Euler: no worries

Eliza Madrigal: this idea of our home being something we carry though... is touching and seems essential

Bertram Jacobus: yes ...

Eliza Madrigal: something we find moment to moment perhaps

Wol Euler: I felt quite "at home" at a wedding last summer, with people I knew only from SL

Liza Deischer: :)

Eliza Madrigal smiles and understands that!

Bertram Jacobus: that's very nice wol

Wol Euler: among trusted and comfortable friends

Calvino Rabeni: Home is also something that carries us, that needs to be created in the space between people

Liza Deischer: yes

Calvino Rabeni: perhaps through ritual, blessing, observance

Eliza Madrigal: :) yes.. lovely idea..

Calvino Rabeni: or some kind of conscious care

Wol Euler: yes, calvino

Calvino Rabeni: Are they equal, the give / receive equation?

Calvino Rabeni: As in john lennon's song perhaps

Wol Euler smiles. I think it's imbalanced in a positive way, because the giver receives too

Wol Euler: 1+1=3

Liza Deischer: i agree

--BELL--

Liza Deischer: but i think it only works when there is real contact

Liza Deischer: (whatever that means)

Liza Deischer: hi Mick

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick!

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Mickorod

arabella Ella: hiya Mick

Wol Euler: helo mick, merry christmas

Mickorod Renard: hiya,,merry x mas to you too

Mickorod Renard: and hiya everyone

Bertram Jacobus: hello mick ... ... :-)+

Eliza Madrigal: yes I do wonder about 'real contact' and the 'space between'... many ideas about what constitutes real and even tangible seem turned around

Eliza Madrigal: or rather 'put in question' in some way, by the ways in which we relate and connect now

Wol Euler nods

Eliza Madrigal: mostly I find it refreshing?

Bertram Jacobus: but ... isn't that quite theorethical ? don't we feel, where is connection more or less ?

Liza Deischer: something needs to flow on a certain level and that is hard to explain

Eliza Madrigal: yes, quite

arabella Ella: trust and respect perhaps

Wol Euler: that is the key, ara

Calvino Rabeni: Yes, bert, we feel, but I think, also ignore things that are there and positive

Liza Deischer: I think you right Ara, it begins with a kind of attitude

Bertram Jacobus: ya cal

Eliza Madrigal: benefit of the doubt, too

Eliza Madrigal: a kind of generosity... seeing our limitations and therefore being generous with others'

Liza Deischer: very good start

Eliza Madrigal: Bert's question reminded me of igoogle quote for today: "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; In practice, there is." - Chuck Reid

Liza Deischer: :)

Bertram Jacobus: well said ...

arabella Ella: :)

Mickorod Renard: wow,,I had a friend called Chuck Reid

Bertram Jacobus: ... :-)

arabella Ella: it may well be him Mick

Eliza Madrigal: Sure... I have no idea who he is... hahah

Bertram Jacobus: :-)

Wol Euler: a very true statement, in any case

Eliza Madrigal nods

Calvino Rabeni: As practice reveals, things are more intricate than allowed by any theory

arabella Ella: i must have arrived after Bert asked his question ... anyone care to paste it here again please if poss

Eliza Madrigal: MMM, yes Calvino

Calvino Rabeni: But, the theory helps in the awareness of the intricacy

Calvino Rabeni: If held lightly

Liza Deischer: yes

Bertram Jacobus: i asked about the difference between theory and practise ara

Eliza Madrigal will send a note Ara :)

arabella Ella: ty

arabella Ella: thanks Eliza!

Eliza Madrigal: We're all so quiet... so I wont feel so bad about sending another link... my favorite Joel :) For Noel

Eliza Madrigal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHO6a2H-pqY

Wol Euler: :)

arabella Ella: hey i noticed it's Mick's rez day today ... two years old!

arabella Ella: happy rez day Mick!

Wol Euler: oh wow, happy rezday Mick!

Eliza Madrigal: Really Mick! Ooooh wow, yes!!

Mickorod Renard: thankyou

Eliza Madrigal: Happy Rez Day!

Mickorod Renard: he he

Liza Deischer: happy rezday mick

SophiaSharon Larnia: haha happy rez day Mick

Mickorod Renard: I feel so old at 2 years

Eliza Madrigal: Now I remember your saying that you tried SL around Christmas :)

Eliza Madrigal: you look no worse for wear, Mick (not that I knew you two years ago but I'm pretty confident ;-)

Liza Deischer: I already have a t-shirt for my first rez day

--BELL--

Liza Deischer: but I still need to wait over 10 monthgs :)

Mickorod Renard: well,,I have lost all my hair during that 2 year period

arabella Ella: oh no that video link 'is not available in my country' makes me so curious when i get that message

Wol Euler grins

Liza Deischer: :)

Eliza Madrigal grins too

Eliza Madrigal: Ah, the last one Ara? And So it Goes...

Eliza Madrigal: Billy Joel

arabella Ella: yes the last youtube link

SophiaSharon Larnia: Happy Holidays, bye for now, all :))

arabella Ella: its amazing

Liza Deischer: bye sophia

arabella Ella: we think internet is so widely available

Eliza Madrigal: Happy Holidays Sharon, So nice to see you!!

Wol Euler: bye sophia, take care, all the best

arabella Ella: yet recently i came across that message 'not available in your country' a few times

arabella Ella: bye Sophia Sharon

Eliza Madrigal: true, Ara. I'm always surprised to hear that!

arabella Ella: feels like being in .... china?

Wol Euler always just shrugs and puts it down to rampant lawyerism.

Eliza Madrigal: :)

arabella Ella will do the same

arabella Ella: :)

Eliza Madrigal: I must get back to cooking... was nice to sit with you all a while.

Eliza Madrigal: Many Blessings. Namaste

Yakuzza Lethecus: bye eliza

Liza Deischer: bye elia

Wol Euler: bye eliza, merry christmas

arabella Ella: bye eliza metty christmas

Yakuzza Lethecus: i get that message very often eliza, especially when i try to watch something from the bbc :P

arabella Ella: ah

Yakuzza Lethecus: or streams from american tv channels

arabella Ella: yes

Mickorod Renard: bye Eliza

Wol Euler: yes, it's copyright control rather than government censorship

arabella Ella: i guess so

Wol Euler: (not that there isn't censorship too ...}

arabella Ella: yes unfortunateely there still is

arabella Ella: even in europe

Calvino Rabeni: What I like about this time of year is - the returning of the light - perhaps I am pagan

Wol Euler smiles.

Liza Deischer: still thinking about our discussion today, i think that being able to make contact with yourself, without negative critisism an a lot of generosity as Ara says, is the main step

Calvino Rabeni: I find I carry forward with the ponderings of this circle, after they end

arabella Ella nods

Liza Deischer: seeing your own flaws without critisising them but seeing them for what they are

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Wol Euler: absolutely, liza

Calvino Rabeni: :)

arabella Ella: that is why i sometimes see SL as a type of 'mirror' where stuff about ourselves gets reflected back to us

Wol Euler: like a good parent with a child, distinguishes between loving the child and correcting its misbehaviour

Liza Deischer: youre right cal, and because it is always late here, sometimes im still pondering when i need to sleep :0

Liza Deischer: :)

Wol Euler: :)

Calvino Rabeni: My metaphor is yogurt - a little good bacteria get into the culture of my mind - not as clean as a mirror, surely :)

Calvino Rabeni: but it captures the growing, and the mix

Liza Deischer: Yes, i think looking at yourself like that (as a child) helps

Calvino Rabeni: self-parenting

Wol Euler: yep

Liza Deischer: nicely put Cal

--BELL--

Wol Euler: I'm going to have to return to RL, my dears, my laptop battery is running down and dinner is approaching

Wol Euler: Merry christmas, happy holidays to everyone

Calvino Rabeni: I must go. Thanks all, may your rituals bring home to soul of yo and yours.

Liza Deischer: bye Wol

arabella Ella: ah enjoy the evening and tomorrow Wol Happy Christmas!

Liza Deischer: I must go too

Liza Deischer: have a nice Christmas everyone

Wol Euler: ((I've claimed the log, and will post it. Please carry on))

Calvino Rabeni: /]

arabella Ella: bye Cal Liza

Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_

Wol Euler: bye everyone, take care

arabella Ella: enjoy your christmas!

Bertram Jacobus: bye all leaving people ...

arabella Ella: :)

arabella Ella: the exodus

arabella Ella: hey Yaku

arabella Ella: what do you call christmas eve in germany

arabella Ella: you have a special name for it dont you?

Mickorod Renard: bye everyone leaving

arabella Ella: maybe Bert can answer ... Yaku is busy drinking his tea

Bertram Jacobus: have to read again ... sry -

Bertram Jacobus: ah ! it's "heiligabend" :-)

arabella Ella: what do you call 24/12 in germany

arabella Ella: ah yes now i remember

arabella Ella: tried to remember in my head and got it wrong

arabella Ella: and when you say sylvester abend ... who is sylvester?

Bertram Jacobus: let me have a look ... research ...

arabella Ella: :)

Bertram Jacobus: wikipedia says it was latin and means men of the forest - and it was a pagan day in former times ...

arabella Ella: ah interesting

arabella Ella: but

arabella Ella: where are the women?

arabella Ella: cooking at home i guess

arabella Ella: anyway i must go now

arabella Ella: nite everyone enjoy your Christmas

Bertram Jacobus: may be ...

Bertram Jacobus: ty ara same same :-)

arabella Ella: Frohe Weihnachten

arabella Ella: (not sure how to spell it)

Bertram Jacobus: 100 % correct ! :-)

arabella Ella: Hiya Aztlan

arabella Ella: :)

Aztlan Foss: hi everyone

Bertram Jacobus: and hello aztlan ! ... :-)

arabella Ella: apologies aztlan was just about to leave ... merry christmas

Aztlan Foss: this started at 1 right? I'm waaaaaay late

Aztlan Foss: bye arabella, merry christmass

Mickorod Renard: hi Aztlan, I am just going too

Aztlan Foss: take care all

Yakuzza Lethecus: bye and night

Mickorod Renard: take care,,and happy xmas everyone

Bertram Jacobus: bye mick ... :-)

Bertram Jacobus: you are right aztlan ... 1 pm start here ... ;-)

Aztlan Foss: :-D

Bertram Jacobus: always 1 and 7 night and day :-)

Bertram Jacobus: you were already here ?

Aztlan Foss: I've been meaning to join in but my schedule makes it hard to make it

Aztlan Foss: I've been here once before

Aztlan Foss: a month ago, maybe?

Aztlan Foss: can't remember exactly

Bertram Jacobus: i see ... may be next time better and more easy to join ? four times a day is a nice offer in my eyes ... :-)

Bertram Jacobus: ah. i see. so you were asked already whether your comments may be recorded as all here ? ... :-)

Aztlan Foss: yeah it is! Maybe next year :-P

Bertram Jacobus: lol okay :-)

Aztlan Foss: yeah

Bertram Jacobus: nice :-)

Bertram Jacobus: the group here seems to be quite stabile ... :-)

Bertram Jacobus: many members

Bertram Jacobus: so it may last a while ... it already does ... :-)

Aztlan Foss: and there's no vibes of social tension

Bertram Jacobus: no. very open and friendly -

Aztlan Foss: I think this is here because people need it

--BELL--

Aztlan Foss: that's why it'll last

Bertram Jacobus: yes. nicely said. i can agree ... :-)

Bertram Jacobus: and i see, you are quite a long time already existing in sl ! ... :-)

Aztlan Foss: hehe yeah, tried several years ago

Aztlan Foss: then I didn't log in for maybe over a year

Aztlan Foss: and then I remembered I had an account after having read an article about SL

Aztlan Foss: so I logged in again

Aztlan Foss: I go long periods with out logging in, but it's a place that's always here to come to

Bertram Jacobus: interesting ... i also heard about it from the press and then started ... - may i ask where you live ? (rl) ? :-)

Aztlan Foss: Los Angles Harbor

Bertram Jacobus: ah. great ! i visited la some or should i say many years ago - what does harbour mean here ? :-)

Aztlan Foss: the harbor means it's by the ocean. Parts are industrialised so there's huge boats with merchendise and cruise ships and fishing boats

Bertram Jacobus: i see. and there is a living area too ? :-)

Bertram Jacobus: with homes and flats i mean ?

Bertram Jacobus: sry - you have to stand a lot of bad english here i guess ...

Aztlan Foss: yeah, living area, beach, nice ocean views and industrial areas

Bertram Jacobus: whaow - sounds really great ! and there is not only one harbour in la i guess ?

Aztlan Foss: http://pics4.city-data.com/cpicv/vfiles17928.jpg

Bertram Jacobus: very nice. ty for this impression ! :-)

Aztlan Foss: alll the cities here are very close together, there's no seperation between them. So if you follow the coast-line you'll see places like that picture and beaches

Aztlan Foss: between San Pedro, CA and Long Beach, CA is where all the industrial places are

Aztlan Foss: and that's maybe 2 or three miles away from where that picture is

Bertram Jacobus: yes. but / and ... it's quite far away from la downtown - how far ?

Aztlan Foss: 5 km maybe?

Bertram Jacobus: ah. not so far :-)

Aztlan Foss: this is long Beach, right across a bridge from where I live: http://citrustickets.com/wp-content/...ch-skyline.jpg

Bertram Jacobus: *click* :-)

Bertram Jacobus: whaow - that looks great , impressive ! ... :-)

Aztlan Foss: and this is the bridge: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...mas_Bridge.jpg

Bertram Jacobus: hehe *click* :-)

Bertram Jacobus: ah yes. in the style of golden gate ;-)

Aztlan Foss: yup

Aztlan Foss: so, in a very small area there's a lot :-)

Bertram Jacobus: oh yes ! easily to imagine

Aztlan Foss: Heilswegler is german?

Bertram Jacobus: yes. i mean with it something like follower of love ...

--BELL--

Aztlan Foss: love is an interesting word for many feelings

Aztlan Foss: love by it's self, when it's not twards anyone in particular looks a lot like forgivness

Bertram Jacobus: you're right ! but i did not mean the grasping something but the uniting aspect - unity and such ...

Bertram Jacobus: all including -

Aztlan Foss: which I find strange because forgivness usually is twards other people, unless it deals with not making your self feel bad

Aztlan Foss: it's hard to unite people

Bertram Jacobus: more easy when oneself is ... in akind of state of pece may be ...

Bertram Jacobus: sry for the typos

Aztlan Foss: yeah, you've probably tried to take many different paths

Aztlan Foss: so you understand their implications

Bertram Jacobus: you're right again ! ... :-9

Bertram Jacobus: (refering to many paths) ...

Aztlan Foss: some people don't even knwow they are on a path

Bertram Jacobus: yes

Bertram Jacobus: but the work has to be done on ones own i think ...

Aztlan Foss: so it seems that they can't connect untill they figure things that there's probably no words for

Bertram Jacobus: yes. i agree again :-)

Aztlan Foss: yeah that's where it's difficult for people.

Aztlan Foss: how do you start to do the work when you don't know that there is work to be done?

Bertram Jacobus: i think everybody feels sometimes that there is some work to do, but not everybody is able to take or start it ...

Bertram Jacobus: but - "all beings want to be happy and avoid suffering" - so the work is always present "automatically" ...

Bertram Jacobus: on different stges

Aztlan Foss: so do people just die sometimes never connecting with even themselves?

Bertram Jacobus: yes sadly

Bertram Jacobus: or -

Bertram Jacobus: the connectivity may be not so intense

Bertram Jacobus: for some people

Aztlan Foss: is it intense for you?

Bertram Jacobus: others have more chances to work with all that -

Bertram Jacobus: nice question - i hope ! (?) ;-)

Aztlan Foss: hehehe

Bertram Jacobus: :-)

Aztlan Foss: nice answer

Bertram Jacobus: and you ? are you content with the connection to yourself ? :-)

Aztlan Foss: are some of us just lucky? some people are just born in wealth, or in a wealthy country. So, are some of us just born able to figure out how we can connect?

Aztlan Foss: hehe, yeah I think so.

Bertram Jacobus: great !

Aztlan Foss: I feel at home where ever I am, so I hope that's a good sign.

Aztlan Foss: I guess for now my place is inside my body. It's like havinga mobile home? :-P

Bertram Jacobus: and i don't know something about the backgrounds of birth and such. i only agree with you : some needs seem to be necessairily fulfilled to start finding less physical needs then -

Bertram Jacobus: and satisfy them

Bertram Jacobus: trying to

--BELL--

Aztlan Foss: I think Carl Jung tried to study peak experiences

Aztlan Foss: I mean Abraham Maslow

Bertram Jacobus: c.g. jung was very close to ideals and spirituality i would say ...

Bertram Jacobus: ah. maslow also - very often quoted ...

Aztlan Foss: both of them, I think, had an intuitive sense of existing.

Aztlan Foss: there needs to be more study like what they did

Bertram Jacobus: and we talked a lot about home and homelessness in the last meeting just before !

Aztlan Foss: right now all they teach in most universities, and where most of the money is, is people with "psychological illness"

Bertram Jacobus: yes. but there is also a more new orientation in direction to psycologically health (!) ...

Aztlan Foss: yeah, that makes me very happy! Sometimes people just need to be pointed in a good direction

Aztlan Foss: and studies like that can really help do that. Even if we're all different, our subjective experiences end up being similar.

Aztlan Foss: it's the only way we can feel what others feel, and that's why we communicate

Aztlan Foss: I read that while maslow was researching peak experiences he said certain people, even if they didn't have all their needs met had the ability to hav a peak experience.

Bertram Jacobus: yes . "but" ... i'm very sorry - and quite tired - midnight here now and already written and read a looot ! ... so ... you excuse me ? ... had to retire ... (its often so abrupt here) ... :-/

Bertram Jacobus: although very interesting ...

Aztlan Foss: enjoy your rest!

Aztlan Foss: thanks for the chat

Bertram Jacobus: ^ ^

Bertram Jacobus: so kind - cu next time, look fiorward ... :-)

Bertram Jacobus: ... bye folks ...

Bertram Jacobus: ... see you laaater ...

Aztlan Foss: bye bertram

Bertram Jacobus: ups - silly gesture ... ;o)

Aztlan Foss: haha