2014.08.11 13:00 - How the Darkness Looks

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

Eliza Madrigal: Hello Bleu :))
Bleu Oleander: hiya Eliza :)
Bleu Oleander: how was your weekend?
Eliza Madrigal: refreshing, to say the least
Eliza Madrigal: what have you been up to?
Bleu Oleander: nice
Bleu Oleander: salons, reading, movies, staying in a/c :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: I suppose I did the opposite... out into the sunshine
Eliza Madrigal: but a seminar is a little like a salon I guess
Bleu Oleander: pretty toasty here

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: imagine so.... an art to stay in the shade here as well

Eliza Madrigal: I haven't gotten to read new emails
Eliza Madrigal: anything interesting popping up?
Bleu Oleander: Pema wrote after several others so continuing the exploration
Eliza Madrigal: I started to peek but realized I wasn't in the frame of mind to read through everything just then, so left it to the side for later :)
Bleu Oleander: yes, helps to be in the frame of mind

Bleu Oleander: been reading a terrific new book
Bleu Oleander: "what we see when we read" by Mendelsund
Bleu Oleander: really new and different insights into reading
Bleu Oleander: very creatively done too
Eliza Madrigal: how so? about the process of reading, choices of reading? you know there are people trying to shorten the time of reading but I'm not sure how I feel about that yet
Bleu Oleander: yes, me either
Bleu Oleander: he starts out with an interesting quote from William James
Bleu Oleander: who describes the impossible attempt to introspectively examine our onw consciousness as "trying to turn up the gass quickly enough to see how the darkness looks."
Eliza Madrigal: cute
Bleu Oleander: perhaps thats close to what we attempt here
Bleu Oleander: the mind trying to see the mind
Eliza Madrigal thinking about that...

Bleu Oleander: relates to Pema's email
Eliza Madrigal listens
Qt Core: Hi Eliza, Bleu
Bleu Oleander: So we can start from two facts: 1) brain functions correlate with awareness, which leads most of us to conclude that brain functions cause awareness; and 2) we use awareness to study anything, whether brain or awareness, whether matter or space or time or anything we'll ever know.
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Qt :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Qt :)
Eliza Madrigal: Qt, did you see the lines Bleu just posted, from Pema's email?
Bleu Oleander: then I asked: Much research is showing that the mind can be filled with illusion, mis-remembering, forgetting, mis-attribution and just plain mistakes. Can we count on our minds to give us accurate information about our minds?
Qt Core: thew one numbered ? yes
Eliza Madrigal: yes :) okay...all on same page
Eliza Madrigal: :::reads::::
Bleu Oleander: so the quote "trying to turn up the gass quickly enough to see how the darkness looks."
Bleu Oleander: (sorry for typos)
Eliza Madrigal: I wonder about an idea... that maybe we've got the wrong end of the stick, in trying to make awareness do things for us?

Qt Core: aren't those errors still informations on how our minds work ?
Bleu Oleander: :) yes
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: informative, yes
Bleu Oleander: can the mind study the mind?
Qt Core: do we have another way ?
Bleu Oleander: good question
Eliza Madrigal: it seems to seek to know itself
Eliza Madrigal: (using most dispassionate language I can find atm)
Bleu Oleander: we do seem to be very curious creatures

Qt Core: i think the first reason is to seek how other minds work, to understand the surrounding as in the people around us
Bleu Oleander: we like to tinker and see how things work
Eliza Madrigal: the seminar I attended this weekend had 3 types of awarenesses... I'm trying to remember the first two, but the third was "like a thief in an empty house"
Qt Core: in an animalistin and utilitaristic way i mean how to use others or at least not suffer damage from them
Bleu Oleander: what does that mean Eliza?
Bleu Oleander: nothing to steal?
Eliza Madrigal: it evokes different things in different people of course, but to me there is a kind of exposure and innocence
Eliza Madrigal: not really anything to gain
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Eliza Madrigal: but I think Qt is right... haha.. we tinker with each other

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: In a very good coursera class on literature, the professor suggests that we try on "the other" as a step towards understanding and love
Qt Core: somewhere iv read empathy defined as the ability to simulate in our mind what others feel/think
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: It seems something we know is important, and experience in ourselves, but also takes effort to keep in mind
Eliza Madrigal: keep active and at the forefront (an empathetic mind)
Eliza Madrigal: in phenomenology explorations (though I realize we aren't using that word anymore)...
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: this comes up, because relaxing the subject/object dichotomy as given, there does at times, rise something I think is along the lines of empathy or unknowing, with regard
Eliza Madrigal: relaxing or suspending/throwing into question

Eliza Madrigal: what is the literature course, Bleu?
Bleu Oleander: Fiction of Relationship
Bleu Oleander: starts in sept
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, yes isn't that the one we took before?
Bleu Oleander: I took half of it last year
Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes that's sort of what I did too
Eliza Madrigal: read what I wanted :)
Bleu Oleander: doing the other half this time
Bleu Oleander: also signed up for one on perception and phenomenology
Eliza Madrigal: saw the link :)
Eliza Madrigal: I signed up for, but can't imagine I have time for, a chinese literature course
Eliza Madrigal: we'll see :)
Bleu Oleander: https://www.coursera.org/course/visualpercepbrain
Qt Core: interesting, in which language is it ?
Eliza Madrigal: it is in English actually, modeled after a course in Chinese
Bleu Oleander: which course is that?
Eliza Madrigal: https://www.coursera.org/course/chinesehumanitieseng
Eliza Madrigal: we're fortunate to have such resources
Bleu Oleander: looks interesting too!
Bleu Oleander: indeed
Eliza Madrigal: I thought so.... but I think if it were available I'd be taking whole courses in pill form at this point... am a little graspy to know or at least experience so much
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: I can definitely relate to that
Eliza Madrigal: that part of me is in direct opposition to the other part, that wants to step out of grasping and lay on the beach for the rest of my days
Bleu Oleander: beaches are great for a few days
Eliza Madrigal: neither really want to work at a normal job :)

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: hehe
Qt Core: nice places top read the course material too...
Eliza Madrigal: true :)
Bleu Oleander: theres a live web camera on the beach I grew up going to that I tune into once and a while ... brings back that experience of laying on the beach ... virtual beach day dreaming :)
Eliza Madrigal: how lovely!
Eliza Madrigal: to visit your childhood place
Bleu Oleander: yes really amazing what it brings back
Bleu Oleander: funny though, I want to control the viewer like sl ha!
Eliza Madrigal: I visited a beach a few days ago, that has the softest (well, it isn't actually sand) powder... was an amazing experience to walk in

(Siesta Key Beach - Sand is 99% pure quartz and soft like powder)

Eliza Madrigal grins... there are beaches in SL too...haha Eden used to surf
Bleu Oleander: yes, I have wind surfed
Eliza Madrigal: :) it is all just so peaceful
Bleu Oleander: my recovering dog is back to his bossy self and begging for a walk so I should go ... nice to see you both
Qt Core: ok, bye Bleu
Eliza Madrigal: okay Bleu, see you soon
Bleu Oleander: he must be feeling much better haha
Eliza Madrigal smiles - sweet
Qt Core: :)
Bleu Oleander: ok byee take care
Eliza Madrigal: I think I'm not much of a conversationalist today... still in beach mode :)

Eliza Madrigal: what's on your mind lately Qt? I have been reading about your adventures getting used to work out routine
Qt Core: the best time i had on a beach was some 30 years ago, sitting in the shadow and reading Lord of the Rings for the first time
Eliza Madrigal: ooooooo
Eliza Madrigal: that must be still so vivid
Qt Core: yes, i usually don't like the beaches, too much sun ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: me too... I'm changing... seem to be going through a thousandth reinvention
Eliza Madrigal: watching with interest
Qt Core: i'm almost (even if 'ill never admit it) liking my workouts, in past months less gim but from 30min to one hour of biking almost everyday
Eliza Madrigal: huge congratulations... I really know how hard it is
Eliza Madrigal: I have never been consistently active outside of teen years, biking places, and want to be
Eliza Madrigal: what made the change?

--BELL--

Qt Core: i've almost never been active in my teen years (beside mandatory PE where i was obviously horrible :-) ).
Eliza Madrigal: obviously!
Eliza Madrigal: lol PE at school is generally understood to be awful
Qt Core: not always, a lot of it was volleyball, basketball and football, and even if horrible i liked volleyball
Eliza Madrigal: ah, okay.... in FL we did sports after school but PE was a bit different and often torturous... lots of running in the sun
Qt Core: here is mostly an inner activity, so running is only done to warm you up
Qt Core: school is mostly held in the colder seasons

Eliza Madrigal: it still interests me a lot, how people change later in life, begin to behave in new ways, become different people
Qt Core: getting some shocks from their doctors ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: I see it with myself... priorities shifting slightly
Eliza Madrigal: ah :))) good point
Qt Core: i had five different docs tell me i had to exercise in less then a months so i did
Eliza Madrigal: Oh dear Qt, to even see 5 doctors you must have been feeling terribly
Qt Core: mostly stupid
Eliza Madrigal: I'm sure not stupid... there are reasons behind ways we behave
Qt Core: gluttony ? ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: laughs
Eliza Madrigal: well, food is pretty terrific
Eliza Madrigal: but no I think... like, for me I gained weight over the last few years as other big changes were happening...
Eliza Madrigal: I think the extra weight made me feel more stable or something
Eliza Madrigal shrugs.... not entirely sure
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eliza Madrigal: it has been nice talking with you Qt, but I'd better go... son wondering about dinner, timely enough :)
Qt Core: :) teach him to cook
Eliza Madrigal: haha... someone should. If I do he will cook like me ...not so great
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Qt Core: ok, bye Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: see you soon, hugs
Eliza Madrigal: be good