Page last modified 23:03, 20 Aug 2016 by eliza
2016.08.20 14:00 - Guardian Session: Out of the Blue
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Guardian Meeting was attended by Bleu, Stevie, Wol, Mick, Zen, Tura and Eliza. There weren't many agenda items but we had a full, bantering chat about self, no self, rules, no rules, teachers, no teachers, etc.
News: WG Meeting tomorrow, Sunday 1:30 pm SLT.
[ 13:48] Bleu (bleu.oleander): hi Eliza :)
[ 13:49] Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :)
[ 13:49] Eliza Madrigal: have been sorting inventory, bit by bit
[ 13:49] Bleu (bleu.oleander): tough job!
[ 13:49] Eliza Madrigal: it is! I'm so glad that I made full outfits, but then i don't remember what I've combined
[ 13:50] Eliza Madrigal: so hard to delete things
[ 13:50] Bleu (bleu.oleander): "I might need that someday" :)
[ 13:50] Eliza Madrigal: but my gestures and animation folders are looking good :)
[ 13:51] Eliza Madrigal: I'm tempted to delete a lot
[ 13:51] Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes I've attempted to do that many times ... sighs
[ 13:53] Bleu (bleu.oleander): r u worried about Zika?
[ 13:53] Eliza Madrigal: Not too much, although I've done some preventative things and also have the girls be really cautious
[ 13:54] Eliza Madrigal: turns out these zika mosquitos hate cuban coffee....
[ 13:54] Eliza Madrigal: so we have grounds about on the balcony, etc
[ 13:54] Bleu (bleu.oleander): :)
[ 13:54] Eliza Madrigal: we are avoiding some areas too, like our currently hip art district
[ 13:55] Bleu (bleu.oleander): hi Mick
[ 13:55] Eliza Madrigal: sad... I hope that isn't permanently impacted because it has been so great for us
[ 13:55] Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick!
[ 13:55] Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes I hope so too
[ 13:55] Mickorod Renard: hiya
[ 13:55] Eliza Madrigal: once they pop up in an area, the city is quick to respond thankfully
[ 13:56] Bleu (bleu.oleander): that's good!
[ 13:56] Eliza Madrigal: we also have these gmo mosquitos ...
[ 13:56] Eliza Madrigal: they set them free in with the usual ones
[ 13:56] Bleu (bleu.oleander): what r they?
[ 13:56] Bleu (bleu.oleander): ah ok
[ 13:56] Eliza Madrigal: my understanding is that they are resistant to carrying disease, and then breed
[ 13:57] Eliza Madrigal: this is where one is tested.... "how much do you really trust scientists?" hahah
[ 13:57] Bleu (bleu.oleander): oh yes, I remember reading something about that
[ 13:57] Bleu (bleu.oleander): scientists are better than nothing tho
[ 13:57] Eliza Madrigal: yes, a bit uneasy with it, but err on the side of trying
[ 13:58] Eliza Madrigal: like a lot of things :)
[ 13:58] Bleu (bleu.oleander): always a challenge knowing how things will develop
[ 13:58] Eliza Madrigal: yes
[ 13:58] Eliza Madrigal: and what might need to be further developed once we do find out
[ 13:58] Bleu (bleu.oleander): yep
[ 13:59] Eliza Madrigal: How's the weekend for you both?
[ 13:59] Mickorod Renard: Hi Bleu
[ 13:59] Mickorod Renard: HI Tura
[ 13:59] Bleu (bleu.oleander): weekend is nice here
[ 13:59] Bleu (bleu.oleander): hi Tura :)
[ 13:59] Eliza Madrigal: Hey Tura, didn't see you arrive :))
[ 13:59] Eliza Madrigal closes inventory folder
[ 13:59] Tura Brezoianu: hi everyone
[ 13:59] Bleu (bleu.oleander): :)
[ 13:59] Eliza Madrigal: nice pink
[ 14:00] Eliza Madrigal: nice weather Bleu? getting cooler?
[ 14:00] Bleu (bleu.oleander): its nice-ish today :)
[ 14:00] Eliza Madrigal smiles
[ 14:00] Bleu (bleu.oleander): not holding my breath tho
[Eliza crashed!]
[ 14:04] Zen (zen.arado): I just detached a jacket and my upper body disappeared
[ 14:04] Tura Brezoianu: wb Eliza
[ 14:04] Wol Euler: take off the alpha too?
[ 14:04] Zen (zen.arado): how do I get it back?
[ 14:04] Eliza Madrigal: Thank you!
[ 14:04] Bleu (bleu.oleander): wb ... that will teach you to work on your inventory!
[ 14:05] Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen and Wow Wol!
[ 14:05] Eliza Madrigal: haha Bleu, the inventory is rebelling
[ 14:05] Zen (zen.arado): Hi Eliza
[ 14:05] Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen's head and pants, hehe
[ 14:06] Eliza Madrigal: that ego work is misfiring ;-)
[ 14:06] Eliza Madrigal: Okay.. assuming this is us for today, shall we get started?
[ 14:06] Bleu (bleu.oleander): yep
[ 14:07] Wol Euler: /me nods.
[ 14:07] Zen (zen.arado): thanks Wol
[ 14:07] Wol Euler: much better!
[ 14:07] Eliza Madrigal: :) there you are
[ 14:07] Eliza Madrigal: feel thankful to wol and tura for brightening us :))
[ 14:08] Wol Euler smiles.
[ 14:08] Bleu (bleu.oleander): :)
[ 14:08] Wol Euler: black is not really a merfolk colour
[ 14:08] Zen (zen.arado): we're a sober bunch
[ 14:08] Wol Euler: other than the orcas, of course
[ 14:08] Eliza Madrigal: of course
[ 14:08] Eliza Madrigal: :)
[ 14:08] Wol Euler: :)
[ 14:09] Eliza Madrigal: I have no official agenda items, but Bleu is there anything you'd like to share?
[ 14:09] Bleu (bleu.oleander): hmmm I don't have any official agenda items either :)
[ 14:10] Eliza Madrigal: Okay ... does anyone else have something of interest for the group?
[ 14:10] Eliza Madrigal: Tomorrow we do meet for the WG, at 1:30pm SLT, and anyone is allowed to attend
[ 14:10] Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes :)
[ 14:10] Eliza Madrigal: as an observer, unless they have an item
[ 14:10] Eliza Madrigal: or would like to jump in as a member
[ 14:11] Eliza Madrigal: :)
About Perfect Paradise
[ 14:11] Mickorod Renard: might I ask a q?
[ 14:11] Eliza Madrigal: yes please
[ 14:11] Mickorod Renard: perfect paradise..is it of interest?
[ 14:12] Eliza Madrigal: in what way? we have a lot of overlapping members
[ 14:12] Eliza Madrigal: something going on?
[ 14:12] Mickorod Renard: I was wondering..Miralee is downstairs and I was thinking a merger might be in the wings?
[ 14:13] Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
[ 14:13] Mickorod Renard: he he
[ 14:13] Eliza Madrigal: whispers: Miralee is here at PaB?
[ 14:13] Mickorod Renard: that rhymes
[ 14:13] Eliza Madrigal: :)
[ 14:13] Eliza Madrigal: PaB has a lot of the same sort of ideals as we do but is too different for a merger...
[ 14:13] Mickorod Renard: its ok,,just thought I may have missed something
[ 14:14] Wol Euler nods.
[ 14:14] Zen (zen.arado): I left PP
[ 14:14] Eliza Madrigal: has a different vibe and reason for being
[ 14:14] Eliza Madrigal: You did Zen?
[ 14:14] Wol Euler: many people do, Zen
[ 14:14] Zen (zen.arado): yes
[ 14:14] Eliza Madrigal: they are a bit more turbulent
[ 14:14] Mickorod Renard: like for eg..if we have shrunk it may have been a thought
[ 14:14] Eliza Madrigal nods.... not that wild of an idea from some angles Mick
[ 14:14] Zen (zen.arado): Bert now has meditation at his own place too
[ 14:15] Eliza Madrigal: so I suppose it is a clearing out time for them... which seems to happen now and again?
[ 14:15] Eliza Madrigal: there have been times I was really involved there and wondered if the less structure and a more spontaneous conversational way of doing things would suit us too....
[ 14:16] Eliza Madrigal: but we have our own rhythms
[ 14:16] Zen (zen.arado): less structure?
[ 14:16] Eliza Madrigal: I think Calvino once said "Each spot has its own chi"
[ 14:16] Eliza Madrigal: unless it has changed, Zen, which is highly possible?
[ 14:17] Zen (zen.arado): it is always changing
[ 14:17] Eliza Madrigal: When Sun's been active there, PP would sort of errupt in parties and then there might be long personal talks and such, etc
[ 14:17] Eliza Madrigal: I'm out of the loop :)
[ 14:18] Mickorod Renard: no worries
[ 14:18] Eliza Madrigal: I don't feel we're dwindling though... just sort of happily walking along
[ 14:18] Bleu (bleu.oleander): :)
[ 14:19] Mickorod Renard: I went to Ewans the other day..it was nice
[ 14:19] Zen (zen.arado): lots of new people come to PP but they leave again
[ 14:19] Tura Brezoianu: I noticed some people down below, including Miralee. I've not heard of PP, sounds like there is some history here?
[ 14:20] Eliza Madrigal: Perfect Paradise is a community the same age as we are
[ 14:20] Wol Euler: started actually as a roleplaying thing, castaway
[ 14:20] Zen (zen.arado): yes
[ 14:20] Eliza Madrigal: and it is facilitated and 'run' by Miralee who is the island goddess
[ 14:20] Eliza Madrigal: :)
[ 14:20] Zen (zen.arado): attempts to build a new community
[ 14:21] Eliza Madrigal: it was first a sustainable community
[ 14:21] Eliza Madrigal: then the role play came later
[ 14:21] Zen (zen.arado): :)
[ 14:21] Eliza Madrigal: in the beginning they did a lot of sciency talks n such
[ 14:21] Eliza Madrigal: but they also have way more sex...haha
[ 14:21] Wol Euler laughs.
[ 14:21] Eliza Madrigal snorts
[ 14:22] Mickorod Renard: huh, and noone invited me?
[ 14:22] Mickorod Renard: :)
[ 14:22] Eliza Madrigal: well, just that in their vision, people would really live there
[ 14:22] Eliza Madrigal: and polyamore is a big thing
[ 14:22] Zen (zen.arado): yes
[ 14:22] Eliza Madrigal: so there have been a lot of (relationship) experiments too
[ 14:22] Zen (zen.arado): polyamory?
[ 14:23] Eliza Madrigal: yes is that the right spelling Zen?
[ 14:23] Wol Euler: yes
[ 14:23] Eliza Madrigal: Mira is lovely... maybe we can ask her up
[ 14:23] Eliza Madrigal: unless she is with someone?
[ 14:23] Zen (zen.arado): remembers JS Mill the Victorian philosopher who advocated 'experiments in living'
[ 14:24] Zen (zen.arado): strange...she hardly ever leaves the island
[ 14:25] Eliza Madrigal nods
Ewan's Mindfulness Session is on Tuesdays at 1pm SLT, but will not take place this week!
[ 14:25] Eliza Madrigal: Mick, would you like to say more about Ewan's session?
[ 14:25] Eliza Madrigal: I've been to just part of one and was impressed
[ 14:25] Eliza Madrigal: but have read others :)
[ 14:25] Mickorod Renard: It was either the first or at least my first At Ewans
[ 14:26] Mickorod Renard: very relaxed
[ 14:26] Zen (zen.arado): I am doing Byron Katie in depth atm
[ 14:26] Mickorod Renard: I have been interested in mindfulness a while now
[ 14:27] Zen (zen.arado): she has a great book which is a commentary on the Tao Te Ching
[ 14:27] Eliza Madrigal: she does?
[ 14:27] Mickorod Renard: I have been picking up on Byron Katie too Zen, may be through your links
[ 14:27] Zen (zen.arado): I think I eed something more pro active
[ 14:28] Zen (zen.arado): like continually challenging my stories
[ 14:28] Zen (zen.arado): 1000 Names for Joy is the book
[ 14:28] Eliza Madrigal: I like her but wow she can be challenging
[ 14:28] Mickorod Renard: What interested me in mindfulness is that the word is so widely used for various reasons..and I wanted to know the truer form that I hope Ewan will show
[ 14:29] Zen (zen.arado): yes but that inquiry is needed I think
[ 14:29] Zen (zen.arado): or we stay stuck in our patterns and stories
[ 14:29] Eliza Madrigal: Ewans sessions are captured well but not perfectly by the recordings, because you can't pace them correctly [meant to say read the pace of them correctly]
[ 14:30] Zen (zen.arado): funny how easy it is to see oter people's stories
[ 14:31] Zen (zen.arado): but not our own
[ 14:31] Wol Euler nods.
[ 14:31] Eliza Madrigal: stories as in what we use to hide?
[ 14:31] Zen (zen.arado): and they cause us suffering
[ 14:31] Mickorod Renard: yes, although I suspect we build our own story around theirs
[ 14:32] Zen (zen.arado): just frozen unchallenged beliefs
[ 14:32] Zen (zen.arado): often just little daily patterns of thoughts
[ 14:33] Eliza Madrigal: One thing is, Byron Katie and others who deal with people one on one or in conferences, are able to ask questions that help someone uncover things for themselves
[ 14:33] Eliza Madrigal: harder to do that through a book perhaps?
[ 14:33] Zen (zen.arado): ah yes but The Work is designed to be used by yourself
[ 14:33] Zen (zen.arado): she does those sessions to demonstrate I think
[ 14:34] Eliza Madrigal: I'm skeptical about doing it oneself
[ 14:34] Zen (zen.arado): loving what is
[ 14:35] Zen (zen.arado): I'm not there yet
[ 14:35] Eliza Madrigal: after all, you are the one hiding :)
[ 14:35] Wol Euler apologises and slips quietly away to bed. Goodnight all, take care, be happy and tell good stories
[ 14:35] Bleu (bleu.oleander): nite Wol
[ 14:35] Zen (zen.arado): nite Wol
[ 14:35] Mickorod Renard: nite Wol
[ 14:35] Tura Brezoianu: goodnight Wol
[ 14:35] Zen (zen.arado): it isn't hiding so much as not noticing I think
[ 14:35] Zen (zen.arado): like noticing thoughts when meditating
[ 14:36] Zen (zen.arado): but doing that during the day
[ 14:36] Eliza Madrigal: ah, nods
[ 14:36] Mickorod Renard: I wondered a bit,,is it posible to love oneself more without building up the ego at the same time?
[ 14:37] Eliza Madrigal: nice question Mick
[ 14:37] Zen (zen.arado): ingrained thought patterns we have had for years
[ 14:37] Zen (zen.arado): depends what you think 'oneself' is
[ 14:38] Eliza Madrigal: first there was a self, then there was no self, then there was....
[ 14:38] Mickorod Renard: he he ,,thats too deep Zen
[ 14:38] Bleu (bleu.oleander): many selves :)
[ 14:38] Eliza Madrigal: :))
[ 14:38] Tura Brezoianu: ...then there was a self, but the last state is not the same as the first
[ 14:39] Zen (zen.arado): no it's just that is more what is manifrsting itself through this human form
[ 14:39] Bleu (bleu.oleander): evolving selves
[ 14:39] Zen (zen.arado): which is just a specific instance of the underlying ...
[ 14:39] Zen (zen.arado): what ever you want to call it
[ 14:40] Bleu (bleu.oleander): how do you know that?
[ 14:40] Zen (zen.arado): I don't know that
[ 14:40] Bleu (bleu.oleander): a thought question :)
[ 14:40] Eliza Madrigal: my stance is something like "under investigation"
[ 14:40] Zen (zen.arado): just seems the way it is
[ 14:41] Zen (zen.arado): I slip back into feeling like I am a solid human form and nothing else
[ 14:41] Eliza Madrigal: which does have to do with questioning previous construction at times
[ 14:41] Bleu (bleu.oleander): we as a species are notorious for believing the way things "seem to be"
[ 14:41] Zen (zen.arado): but not something reached by rational thinking
[ 14:42] Bleu (bleu.oleander): how do you know that? ha ha!
[ 14:42] Eliza Madrigal: I like that when you are led by someone in a meditation or session like Ewan is doing, you have to go at their pace for a while... let them take the wheel
[ 14:42] Zen (zen.arado): because that divides everything up to be able to speak about them
[ 14:43] Eliza Madrigal: like, sometimes I think I know something because I saw it that way at some point and it produced a big wow
[ 14:43] Zen (zen.arado): dropping thought?
[ 14:43] Eliza Madrigal: but that, was that point
[ 14:43] Zen (zen.arado): what is there when there is no thinking?
[ 14:43] Zen (zen.arado): Darryl Bailey like to ask
[ 14:44] Bleu (bleu.oleander): why would you want no thinking?
[ 14:44] Zen (zen.arado): didn't say want
[ 14:44] Bleu (bleu.oleander): :)
[ 14:44] Zen (zen.arado): there is still something
[ 14:44] Eliza Madrigal: if you recognize that a lot of your thoughts (not saying yours are) are repetitive or unquestioned or just not that exciting.... ?
[ 14:44] Zen (zen.arado): but
[ 14:45] Eliza Madrigal: then maybe try a different flavor
[ 14:45] Eliza Madrigal: like, no thinking, thinking
[ 14:45] Eliza Madrigal: :)
[ 14:45] Zen (zen.arado): yes it isn't new
[ 14:45] Bleu (bleu.oleander): I don't characterize my thoughts as repetitive or unquestioned and wonder why some people do?
[ 14:45] Eliza Madrigal: or layers of thinking... a still layer, then a less loud layer, and the fireworks level...
[ 14:45] Zen (zen.arado): it's in Buddhism, Taoism, nonduality
[ 14:46] Eliza Madrigal: it is a lot of places
[ 14:46] Bleu (bleu.oleander): for me, thoughts vary quite a bit in flavor, tone, volume etc
[ 14:46] Mickorod Renard: I wonder whether these thoughts are from a redundant part of life..like survival and that we dont have to work so hard at thinking about surviving now
[ 14:46] Zen (zen.arado): agree Mick
[ 14:47] Bleu (bleu.oleander): I think we have to work pretty hard at survival these days!
[ 14:47] Zen (zen.arado): aren't we prettty unconscious of our thought patterns?
[ 14:47] Mickorod Renard: when i had huge holidays when i worked ..I would go crazy with thought
[ 14:47] Eliza Madrigal: what we're describing is becoming more conscious (of them or of other things), and ways that people through the ages have taught, to do that
[ 14:48] Zen (zen.arado): most peole are shocked at how busy their minds are when they first meditate
[ 14:48] Eliza Madrigal: but sometimes we can get stuck there too?
[ 14:48] Bleu (bleu.oleander): I guess I just don't relate to the "stuck" part
[ 14:48] Zen (zen.arado): but that's why we need that continuous challenge isn't it?
[ 14:49] Mickorod Renard: when i was younger i was fine, I just thought about sex
[ 14:49] Eliza Madrigal: but, hm... if you go to the same well for the challenge, are you still being challenged?
[ 14:49] Zen (zen.arado): what does Pema Chodron call that?
[ 14:49] Zen (zen.arado): I forget
[ 14:49] Zen (zen.arado): Shenpa?
[ 14:49] Eliza Madrigal: lol Mick
[ 14:49] Eliza Madrigal: yes Zen
[ 14:49] Eliza Madrigal: I only have my experience, and admittedly I've needed a lot more help than some
[ 14:49] Zen (zen.arado): but different challenges come up
[ 14:50] Mickorod Renard: I love the well question Eliza
[ 14:50] Zen (zen.arado): amazing the different challenges of life
[ 14:50] Zen (zen.arado): out of the blue
[ 14:50] Bleu (bleu.oleander): say more about the well :)
[ 14:50] Zen (zen.arado): just when you were coming to terms with the usual ones
[ 14:51] Eliza Madrigal: just thinking that we have amazing access to resources from so many times and places
[ 14:51] Eliza Madrigal: and all teachings are still teachings
[ 14:51] Bleu (bleu.oleander): ah so the great well
[ 14:51] Zen (zen.arado): I want to fall in love with what is as Katie says
[ 14:51] Zen (zen.arado): instead of being an old grump :)
[ 14:51] Mickorod Renard: then I think of the bible story, the woman from sumaria at the well
[ 14:52] Zen (zen.arado): ah yes Mick
[ 14:52] Bleu (bleu.oleander): is all teaching valid or even desired by all?
[ 14:52] Eliza Madrigal: I relate to teachings in that sometimes one studies and learns certain questions and formulas, but then putting that into practice means one's own unique situation and mind
[ 14:52] Zen (zen.arado): oh no Bleu
[ 14:52] Zen (zen.arado): just saying what resonates for me
[ 14:52] Eliza Madrigal: and 'timings' like music
[ 14:52] Zen (zen.arado): not expecting many here to concur
[ 14:52] Bleu (bleu.oleander): so how do we choose which teachings to learn from?
[ 14:53] Zen (zen.arado): it seems to present itself to you?
[ 14:53] Tura Brezoianu: I think the Samaritan woman taught Jesus something
[ 14:53] Zen (zen.arado): what seems to make sense to you?
[ 14:53] Eliza Madrigal: how so, Tura?
[ 14:54] Zen (zen.arado): I am reading a book of koans like that
[ 14:54] Zen (zen.arado): all have women in them
[ 14:54] Eliza Madrigal: nice Zen, that's a very important area of scholarship... digging up the buried stories of women :)
[ 14:54] Mickorod Renard: koans with women in them must be unfathomable
[ 14:54] Zen (zen.arado): they often pierce the and deflate so called great Zen masters
[ 14:54] Tura Brezoianu: I might be misremembering the story
[ 14:55] Zen (zen.arado): Hidden Lamp it's called
[ 14:55] Tura Brezoianu: but in my mind I have it that she taught him that his mission was not only to the Jews
[ 14:55] Tura Brezoianu: but to everyone
[ 14:55] Zen (zen.arado): little old ladies with great wisdom
[ 14:56] Eliza Madrigal: I should read it again...
[ 14:56] Mickorod Renard: I must read that again Tura
[ 14:56] Zen (zen.arado): I forget the story
[ 14:56] Eliza Madrigal: when I read that story the first time, I remember feeling a convicted conscience or something.... since my mom had been married a few times...
[ 14:57] Zen (zen.arado): yes something about adultery in it?
[ 14:57] Eliza Madrigal: it caused me to put myself in the situation pretty vividly
[ 14:57] Eliza Madrigal: and also in her shoes
[ 14:57] Mickorod Renard: I just read it to sort of suggest that life is simpler if you dont complicate it
[ 14:57] Eliza Madrigal: I liked that about jesus... that he had conversations with people others didn't want to understand
[ 14:57] Zen (zen.arado): yes
[ 14:57] Bleu (bleu.oleander): interesting, that story was not in our oldest copies of the NT ... was added later
[ 14:58] Eliza Madrigal: hm, never heard that
[ 14:58] Eliza Madrigal: a real patchwork, the whole thing :)
[ 14:58] Bleu (bleu.oleander): there's so much new knowledge in biblical studies
[ 14:58] Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes
[ 14:58] Zen (zen.arado): biblical criticism questions a lot of the bible's validity
[ 14:59] Eliza Madrigal: my son wants to read the Bible now because he feels left out of the references
[ 14:59] Bleu (bleu.oleander): its valid, just learning in what new ways
[ 14:59] Mickorod Renard: but for all our wisdom do we not carry on making the same historical mistakes?
[ 14:59] Bleu (bleu.oleander): many versions also
[ 15:00] Bleu (bleu.oleander): I hope we learn from some of our mistakes Mick :)
[ 15:00] Zen (zen.arado): yes and coied by monks by hand for centuries
[ 15:00] Mickorod Renard: I think each generation forgets
[ 15:00] Zen (zen.arado): copied
[ 15:00] Eliza Madrigal: well, it is what we do with it... what our aim is? if one wants to learn how to be more compassionate... lots of material
[ 15:00] Bleu (bleu.oleander): we have over 5000 copies of the NT, none are originals and none are exactly the same
[ 15:00] Zen (zen.arado): yes but not to obey legalistically
[ 15:01] Zen (zen.arado): as I remember Presbyterians doing
[ 15:01] Zen (zen.arado): :)
[ 15:01] Eliza Madrigal: i like about tibetan buddhism, that you really aren't supposed to do anything else until you first bring up the mind of 'bodhicitta' or mind of compassion
[ 15:01] Eliza Madrigal: so you are choosing your filter basically
[ 15:02] Zen (zen.arado): you can be a scriptural Buddhist too I think
[ 15:02] Eliza Madrigal: and in practice, it does to me, feel like a kind of magical substance
[ 15:02] Eliza Madrigal: :)
[ 15:02] Eliza Madrigal: I'm a drunk about it
[ 15:02] Bleu (bleu.oleander): your conscious filter ... we have many nonconscious filters too
[ 15:02] Zen (zen.arado): people want rules for living
[ 15:02] Eliza Madrigal: indeed true
[ 15:02] Mickorod Renard: thats a lovely way Eliza
[ 15:02] Zen (zen.arado): don't they?
[ 15:03] Mickorod Renard: I think guidance is handy
[ 15:03] Eliza Madrigal: rules are just safeties
[ 15:03] Zen (zen.arado): yes the Buddha instructed his students to question teachings and teachrs
[ 15:03] Bleu (bleu.oleander): how should I live my life? a life-consuming question!
[ 15:03] Zen (zen.arado): even his own teachings
[ 15:04] Zen (zen.arado): I am readin Montaigne atm
[ 15:04] Zen (zen.arado): comment vivre
[ 15:04] Eliza Madrigal: I keep making wild miscalculations and having to start again, to the best of ability :)
[ 15:04] Mickorod Renard: I wish I had leapfrogged some of my mistakes
[ 15:04] Zen (zen.arado): how to live
[ 15:04] Eliza Madrigal: no kidding Mick, me too
[ 15:04] Eliza Madrigal: but not 'really' or exactly
[ 15:04] Zen (zen.arado): Montaigne was into mindfulness in 16th century
[ 15:04] Eliza Madrigal listens
[ 15:04] Bleu (bleu.oleander): if we could accept that mistakes are learning experiences we'd welcome them!
[ 15:05] Zen (zen.arado): he read Stioc philoso[hers
[ 15:05] Zen (zen.arado): Stoic
[ 15:05] Mickorod Renard: yeh, I enjoyed lots of my mistakes..especially at the time
[ 15:05] Tura Brezoianu: everything can be a learning experience, if we just notice the opportunity
[ 15:05] Zen (zen.arado): yes Tura
[ 15:05] Mickorod Renard: yes Tura
[ 15:05] Mickorod Renard: I did learn
[ 15:06] Zen (zen.arado): Montaigne was a fascinating guy
[ 15:06] Eliza Madrigal: noticing opportunity is a kind of filter? training one has to be open to?
[ 15:06] Zen (zen.arado): he retired at 37 and spent the next 20 years examining his life
[ 15:06] Zen (zen.arado): and writing about it
[ 15:06] Eliza Madrigal: darn, I should have retired first, lol
[ 15:06] Tura Brezoianu: "virtue has many tools, but they are all grasped with the handle of attention"
[ 15:07] Zen (zen.arado): yes Tura
[ 15:07] Mickorod Renard: then writing about the mistake of retiring too young?
[ 15:07] Bleu (bleu.oleander): :)
[ 15:07] Zen (zen.arado): Katie just uses a version of that really
[ 15:07] Bleu (bleu.oleander) hates the concept of "retire"
[ 15:07] Eliza Madrigal: :)
[ 15:07] Zen (zen.arado): paying attention to our thought patterns
[ 15:07] Mickorod Renard: I am experiencing that concept..its very hectic
[ 15:08] Zen (zen.arado): yes but he was a magistrate and ran a big estate
[ 15:08] Mickorod Renard: I have to go folks
[ 15:08] Zen (zen.arado): and gave that up to just write and think
[ 15:08] Eliza Madrigal: :) back to hectic retirement schedule?
[ 15:08] Mickorod Renard: there is an iridium flare to check and then carry kids to bed
[ 15:08] Bleu (bleu.oleander): take care Mick
[ 15:08] Eliza Madrigal smiles
[ 15:09] Zen (zen.arado): 37 was middle aged in those days :)
[ 15:09] Mickorod Renard: nite all,,thanks for the chat
[ 15:09] Zen (zen.arado): nite Mick
[ 15:09] Eliza Madrigal: Nite Mick, thank you
[ 15:09] Tura Brezoianu: goodnight Mick
[ 15:09] Eliza Madrigal: this week, someone I knew a long time ago emailed me to apologize for avoiding me for decades (!) because they wanted to say sorry for something and couldn't do it,.. was an amazing thing because I never felt she needed to apologize. We hurt each other because we only knew how to do that. Now we can practice otherwise
[ 15:09] Zen (zen.arado): yes
[ 15:09] Bleu (bleu.oleander): nice Eliza
[ 15:10] Eliza Madrigal: it is... we were bawling and saying how precious the other was to each other....
[ 15:10] Eliza Madrigal: "out of the blue"
[ 15:10] Bleu (bleu.oleander): amazing!
[ 15:10] Bleu (bleu.oleander): wow, can bring up so much
[ 15:10] Zen (zen.arado): so many things we can open up that otherwise cause so much suffering
[ 15:11] Eliza Madrigal: I feel like, that was an opportunity that arose because we both learned better ways in the meantime
[ 15:11] Eliza Madrigal: putting into practice still took a lot of bravery
[ 15:11] Zen (zen.arado): yes
[ 15:12] Bleu (bleu.oleander): that was an amazing step on your friend's part
[ 15:12] Eliza Madrigal: it was, she's like a hero to me now
[ 15:12] Bleu (bleu.oleander): :)
[ 15:12] Zen (zen.arado): amazing
[ 15:12] Eliza Madrigal: and the other thing is, what we achieved in our own lives is a feeling really basic and simple
[ 15:13] Eliza Madrigal: we both might have scoffed at decades ago
[ 15:13] Eliza Madrigal: but now seems huge and wonderful
[ 15:13] Zen (zen.arado): yes
[ 15:13] Bleu (bleu.oleander): that's great
[ 15:14] Zen (zen.arado): maybe knowing and education are prioritized too much?
[ 15:14] Zen (zen.arado): though we need it
[ 15:14] Eliza Madrigal: I just think there is a time you have to not lean on it
[ 15:14] Eliza Madrigal: and see what is left
[ 15:14] Zen (zen.arado): yes just use it judicially when needed
[ 15:15] Eliza Madrigal: it can be hard to put down and stop tinkering with great ideas for their own sake
[ 15:15] Eliza Madrigal: lol
[ 15:15] Zen (zen.arado): but experiencing and sensing so important
[ 15:15] Eliza Madrigal: or for me, I should say
[ 15:15] Zen (zen.arado): for me too
[ 15:15] Eliza Madrigal: yes... the challenge
[ 15:15] Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stevie!
[ 15:16] Bleu (bleu.oleander): hey Steve
[ 15:16] Eliza Madrigal: nice to see you
[ 15:16] Zen (zen.arado): just sensing and empathising with your family far better than books about parenting
[ 15:16] stevenaia Michinaga: greetings, did I miss a guardian meeting?
[ 15:16] Bleu (bleu.oleander): yep ha ha!
[ 15:16] Eliza Madrigal: you did :)
[ 15:16] stevenaia Michinaga: opps
[ 15:16] Eliza Madrigal: but we are chattering away about self, no self, stories, no stories, tinkering, no tinkering, suffering and opportunity
[ 15:17] Bleu (bleu.oleander): phew!
[ 15:17] Eliza Madrigal: Phew!!
[ 15:17] Bleu (bleu.oleander) needs a nap!
[ 15:17] stevenaia Michinaga: I was just posting tonight session on the calendar and ran into a group of PP people at the pavilion
[ 15:17] Eliza Madrigal: Mira was here with visitors?
[ 15:17] stevenaia Michinaga: more on that tomorrow, yes
[ 15:17] Bleu (bleu.oleander) listens
[ 15:18] Eliza Madrigal: ah, okay... do you have a current landmark?
[ 15:18] Eliza Madrigal: Tura hadn't heard of Perfect Paradise
[ 15:18] stevenaia Michinaga: they were here at our pavillion
[ 15:18] Eliza Madrigal: it is a beautiful place to wander actually
[ 15:18] Eliza Madrigal: yes, understand
[ 15:18] Eliza Madrigal: invited her up but she didn't want to disturb
[ 15:19] Eliza Madrigal: so said she wouldn't, but seemed she wanted to describe PaB herself maybe? :)
[ 15:19] stevenaia Michinaga: I gave tura a lm
[ 15:19] Eliza Madrigal: thanks
[ 15:19] Tura Brezoianu: thanks
[ 15:19] stevenaia Michinaga: pls continue I'm feeding the cat and starting the grille
[ 15:20] Eliza Madrigal: :)
[ 15:20] Tura Brezoianu: thanks Zen also
[ 15:20] Zen (zen.arado): some of those might be out of date Tura
[ 15:20] Eliza Madrigal: I have a folder from 2011!
[ 15:20] Zen (zen.arado): folder of PP landmarks
[ 15:20] Bleu (bleu.oleander): :)
[ 15:21] Zen (zen.arado): yeh mine is 2014
[Stevie poofs]
[ 15:21] Eliza Madrigal: oops
[ 15:21] Eliza Madrigal: probably the cat's fault... Stevie has an enormous cat!
[ 15:21] Zen (zen.arado): :)
[ 15:21] Bleu (bleu.oleander): gotta get going ... nice chat today ... take care all
[ 15:22] Eliza Madrigal: thanks Bleu, see you soon
[ 15:22] Bleu (bleu.oleander): c u at the WG tomorrow
[ 15:22] Zen (zen.arado): yes thanks everybody
[ 15:22] Zen (zen.arado): byee
[ 15:22] Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Zen, you too, and Tura :))
[ 15:22] Eliza Madrigal: wb Stevie, cat take the keyboard?
[ 15:22] Tura Brezoianu: thanks all
[ 15:22] Bleu (bleu.oleander): wb and bye for now Steve
[ 15:22] stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
[ 15:22] Bleu (bleu.oleander): c u tomorrow
[ 15:22] stevenaia Michinaga: see you soon
[ 15:22] Eliza Madrigal: cy tomorrow!
[ 15:22] stevenaia Michinaga: ok
[ 15:23] Eliza Madrigal: not too much on the gm agenda today
[ 15:23] Eliza Madrigal: should have had it after the WG meeting!
[ 15:23] stevenaia Michinaga: nods, San and Blue did good work on the notecard
[ 15:24] Eliza Madrigal: agreed
[ 15:24] Eliza Madrigal: you really look like Stevie Nicks now
[ 15:24] Eliza Madrigal: :)
[ 15:24] stevenaia Michinaga: looks like we have vast builds
[ 15:24] stevenaia Michinaga: lol
[ 15:24] stevenaia Michinaga: I can live with that
[ 15:24] Eliza Madrigal: impressive building
[ 15:24] Eliza Madrigal: all up to date with funding?
[ 15:24] Eliza Madrigal: last time I asked you were missing a few from before
[ 15:25] stevenaia Michinaga: I'll take a look No add'l funding requeted or received, but I'll try to do a calc for tomorrow
[ 15:25] Eliza Madrigal: Okay great
[ 15:25] Eliza Madrigal: have a lovely meal and evening
[ 15:26] Eliza Madrigal: Nite :)
[ 15:26] stevenaia Michinaga: night
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