2016.08.25 13:00 - TSK Session: Five Lamps

The Guardians for this meeting were Eliza and Mick. For more about the context of these TSK explorations, please see: Time, Space, and Knowledge

We are currently in the Time, Space, and Knowledge - Part 3 [KNOWLEDGE] section of the book.
 

Eliza Madrigal: Oh Wol, you look adorable!
Wol Euler: awwww thank you <3
Wol Euler: nice dress!
Eliza Madrigal: thank you :))
Wol Euler: very light and summery
Eliza Madrigal: that is how I feel after whittling down inventory ^^
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: although this AO I found, it may be too similar to Bleu's ..hm
Eliza Madrigal: I'm talking with my hands
Wol Euler: hard to avoid being influenced
Wol Euler: yup
Wol Euler: noticed that
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: ha, that's a good point... friends tend to mirror each other sometimes
Wol Euler: in RL so why not here too?
Eliza Madrigal: true

Eliza Madrigal: And how are you? Getting some rest? Having some fun?
Wol Euler: some of each yes
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza, Wol :)
Wol Euler: not enough of either though, I'm sleeping badly for some reason
Eliza Madrigal: "You had one job!"
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: And you, Bleu, things well?
Wol Euler: heheheh
Bleu Oleander: yes, busy and well thanks ... you?
Eliza Madrigal: Getting better
Bleu Oleander: that's good!
Eliza Madrigal: schedule change approaching though, and I won't be able to attend morning sessions anymore
Bleu Oleander: new job?
Eliza Madrigal: new schedule with my son
Wol Euler: ah
Eliza Madrigal: I will be away from the SL computer until around 1pm every day
Eliza Madrigal: because it doesn't make sense for me to drive home in between
Eliza Madrigal: he will be there 5 hrs only, and hopefully finish in January
Eliza Madrigal: so I'll work in the library and go to the gym, but my laptop can't deal with SL
Eliza Madrigal: sort of looking forward to a stricter structure

--BELL--

Wol Euler smiles.
Bleu Oleander: :)
Wol Euler: having always lived in cities with excellent and cheap-ish public transport, it's hard for me to imagine life in a place without that
Wol Euler: I keep thinking "well, couldn't he just take the subway?"
Eliza Madrigal: Miami, as a rule, makes little practical sense :)
[two buses and the metrorail is what he would need]
Wol Euler: heh
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick, and colorful Tura!
Bleu Oleander: hi Tura and Mick :)
Wol Euler: hello mick, tura
Mickorod Renard: Hiya
Tura Brezoianu: hi all
Eliza Madrigal: we're just chit chatting so far :)
Eliza Madrigal: How are you both?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :)
Bleu Oleander: hiya Bruce
Mickorod Renard: hey Brucie
Tura Brezoianu: hi Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, folks.
Wol Euler: hello bruce

Beginning with nothing to offer...

Mickorod Renard: I have nothing to offer today,,I have had a bad week
Eliza Madrigal: Sorry to hear that Mick
Bleu Oleander: oh sorry to hear
Wol Euler: I thought that t-shirt image was eyes and a mask at first, Bruce :)
Eliza Madrigal: anything that would be helpful to share?
Eliza Madrigal: (I thought an owl)
Mickorod Renard: no worries..I just need to focus on loving myself
Eliza Madrigal: ((((loves Mick)))))
Mickorod Renard: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Those "eyes" are the "doors of perception," Wol.
Mickorod Renard: ty
Wol Euler: of course :)
Tura Brezoianu: I read it as a tree, Yggdrasil maybe
Wol Euler: !
Wol Euler: yes I can see that
Bruce Mowbray: I call it a fractal tree.
Eliza Madrigal: Can you describe more?
Mickorod Renard: lovely, just seen it
Bruce Mowbray: Who is describing, Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: am curious about both, the Yggdrasil and your description of why it is a fractal tree
Bruce Mowbray: kk. Yggdrasil first.
Mickorod Renard: looks like a welsh word
Bruce Mowbray: Tura?
Wol Euler: norse
Tura Brezoianu: Yggdrasil is the tree that holds up the sky
Mickorod Renard: ah
Bruce Mowbray: ahhhh!
Eliza Madrigal: wow
Tura Brezoianu: Norse mythology, as Wol said
Eliza Madrigal: that's a wonderful description
Eliza Madrigal zooms to photo Bruce's shirt for the log

Bruce Mowbray: Blake wrote:

“If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite."

Bruce Mowbray: Blake, William.
Eliza Madrigal: ah, I see :) nice
Mickorod Renard: I wonder how aware of the sky above , the rest of animal and plant life are
Bruce Mowbray: and mathematically, fractals are infinite.
Bruce Mowbray: and that seems to go well with the exercises at the end of the book....
Eliza Madrigal: it does! Would you like to keep going and share your report?
Mickorod Renard: yes, good point Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: "For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern.” ― William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

Bruce Mowbray: That, basically, IS my report.
Bruce Mowbray: I enjoyed the five lights.
Mickorod Renard: its a wonderful report
Bruce Mowbray: and making each of those five more lights,
Bruce Mowbray: and each of those five more,
Bruce Mowbray: so fractals were obvious.

Mickorod Renard: yes, I tried it last week in the hospital waiting room..great exercise
Bruce Mowbray: (p.273) Ex. 32
Eliza Madrigal: I love this one too
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Mickorod Renard: it sort of made me feel like sea weed was slowly being pulled off me and stopped me feeling so suffocated
Bruce Mowbray: Wonderful, Mick.

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: sadly it closed in shortly afterwards
Mickorod Renard: he he
Bruce Mowbray nods. Seaweed happens.
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps once you taste that though, you can find it more easily again?
Wol Euler smiles.
Mickorod Renard: exactly Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: :) you did have a report ^.^
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Mickorod Renard: he he
Eliza Madrigal giggles

Eliza Madrigal: Tura?
 

Tura Brezoianu: The five lamps exercise reminded me of a heraldic symbol, the cross crosslet
Tura Brezoianu: a cross of which each arm is a cross
Tura Brezoianu: and then you can get a "cross crosslet crossed again"
Tura Brezoianu: which is actually used on some coat of arms, it's not just something a heraldry geek came up with :)
Wol Euler: also fractal
Wol Euler: to a certain extent
Eliza Madrigal: indeed, how fascinating
Mickorod Renard: yes, like a fern

Tura Brezoianu: I also worked with the "being aware of being aware of being aware..." exercise
Tura Brezoianu: Concentrating first on awareness of my own presence
Tura Brezoianu: then my awareness of that, which meant noticing how well I was being awaare of myself and bringing myself back to it when I strayed
Tura Brezoianu: then my awareness of that whole process itself
Tura Brezoianu: done

Eliza Madrigal: beautiful
Eliza Madrigal: strong feeling of connectedness and spaciousness
Mickorod Renard: thats very nice
Wol Euler smiles.
Mickorod Renard: I think the more I become aware of these practices the more I am aware of how closed in I get too..like the contrast
Mickorod Renard: there must be a trick to getting rid of the bad one
Bruce Mowbray: Is "awareness," then, a two-edged sword?
Eliza Madrigal: could look at the idea of it being 'bad'
Bruce Mowbray: or perhaps an infinite-edged sword...
Tura Brezoianu: light reveals good and bad alike
Mickorod Renard: I too wondered this..and wondered if it needed tying in with mindfulness
Eliza Madrigal: I thought of that too Mick, that this exercise works well with what Ewan is facilitating...so a nice mix
Tura Brezoianu: or rather light reveals whatever is, without judgement

Bruce Mowbray: I feel an ethical question underneath these ponderings: if a person's life is very very bleak, indeed, is it ethical to offer them methods for increasing awareness?
Wol Euler: hmmmmmm
Bleu Oleander: is it eithical to even ask that question?
Bruce Mowbray: Is it ethical to teach a inner-city impoverished child who sees abuse, and even murder, almost every night, the techniques of poetry?
Mickorod Renard: I too struggled when I became very compassionate..the feeling was lovely but the pain of seeing suffering was troublesome
Bruce Mowbray: Absolutely, Mick.
Wol Euler: ah bruce, that is to me a different case :) and that last case I would answer with a definite YES fwiw
Bleu Oleander: why not? show them a way to see the beauty in the world ... they may be inspired to write their own poetry
Bruce Mowbray: That was my answer too, Wol.
Bruce Mowbray: and they wrote the best poems of any of my students.
Wol Euler: they don't need to be shown dirt and hurt, but perhaps they have simply never come across beauty before.
Wol Euler: good :)
Mickorod Renard: nice thoughts Wol
Eliza Madrigal: yes, my feeling too.... it is like traveling then returning to a smaller world...there is a pang and longing but also a widening of view... and possibility of cultivating that where one is
Mickorod Renard: we generally only show kids how to become succesful in their work
Bruce Mowbray: So, back to TSK's methods for increasing awareness....
Eliza Madrigal: if you look at what the awareness brought out in you in a bleakish moment... the spaciousness, breath (less suffocation), so to find that wherever they are
Eliza Madrigal: Report today Bleu? :)
Mickorod Renard: yes, but there seems to be a need for non attachment
Bleu Oleander: more of a different perception perhaps ...

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: I bought for a dear friend, who has been a devotee of Ram Dass, Thich Nhat Hanh, and Tolle, a copy of TSK - which she received just yesterday...

Bleu Oleander: am reading "I Contain Multitudes" by Ed Yong
Bleu Oleander: on the microbiome
Eliza Madrigal: nice
Mickorod Renard: whats it like?
Bleu Oleander: we are home to an abundant microscopic menagerie
Bleu Oleander: microbes that live on us and in us and in all our cells
Bruce Mowbray: cool. All those little lives inside us! Love it.

Bleu Oleander: so the author writes ...
Wol Euler listens.
Bleu Oleander: "we can't see any of these minuscule specks. "
Bleu Oleander: "but if our own cells were to mysteriously disappear, they would perhaps be detectable as a ghostly microbial shimmer, outlining a now-vanished animal core"
Bleu Oleander: reminded of our earlier exercises
Bruce Mowbray: Wow. Cool image.
Eliza Madrigal: giant body
Bleu Oleander: yes I thought so
Eliza Madrigal: and glow
Eliza Madrigal: neat :)
Bleu Oleander: so even when we are alone, we are never alone ... we exist in symbiosis
Bruce Mowbray wonders if those tiny specks of life in us also have tiny specks of life inside them.
Bleu Oleander: I loved that
Bleu Oleander: changing my sense of self
Mickorod Renard: cool
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Bleu Oleander: every living thing plays host to a whole community of other living things
Wol Euler: like street people or longtime prisoners once freed, when cleaned up and their fleas and lice removed, often reported missing them
Eliza Madrigal: traces
Bleu Oleander: as we learn more about them we are learning that they affect our behavior
Bruce Mowbray ponders having a bad parasite day.
Mickorod Renard: reminds me of those mind controllling plants in south america.....I wonder whether we are stimulated to procreate and survive just to support this managerie
Bleu Oleander: fascinating really
Eliza Madrigal: it is

Bleu Oleander:
"we cannot fully understand the lives of animals without understanding our microbes and our symbioses with them"

Mickorod Renard: perhaps we are kept in some halucinagenic state whilst alien life forms feed on us..he he
Bleu Oleander: that could be true Mick
Eliza Madrigal grins at Mick the left-fielder
Mickorod Renard: enjoy the trip
Mickorod Renard: grin
Bruce Mowbray: "Be kind to your microscopic friends."
Bleu Oleander: its a hidden ecosystem that we're just starting to "see"

Mickorod Renard: I saw that they are now detecting antibiotic alternativees in our noses
Bruce Mowbray: I saw that too, Mick.
Mickorod Renard: a bit like finding new medicines in the amazon,,we find new on our own body
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Mickorod Renard: but this does highlight in a way..how little we do normally observe
Eliza Madrigal: we have no idea how many worlds we inhabit
[and inhabit us]
Bleu Oleander: so how does one think about "knowing" considering this? yes Mick!
Bruce Mowbray: and Whitman's "I contain multitudes" was talking of different sorts of multitudes... creeds, races, genders, nationalities, and maybe even a few fleas.
Mickorod Renard: I wondered that too Bleu,,during reading tsk

Bleu Oleander: reading the two books concurrently revealed many more questions
Bruce Mowbray: How does one think about knowing and not-knowing, considering these things?
Eliza Madrigal: "It is only when we forget our learning that we begin to know." - Henry David Thoreau
Eliza Madrigal: was thinking about this line while trying to report on what was a pretty extensive exploration for me this week.... not intentionally, but there was a spark that just stayed and opened and opened
Mickorod Renard: yes, I was thinking of something like that to say...I feel more liberated being free from the feeling of not knowing
Eliza Madrigal: and I found myself digging into what little there is available about taoist traditions and dreaming and such
Mickorod Renard: without nessesarily knowing
Wol Euler listens.
Mickorod Renard: listens to Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: and yet... there is something about not exchanging out entirely...
Eliza Madrigal: meaning, our ways of knowing are OK and beneficial
Eliza Madrigal: and hard won
Eliza Madrigal: so somehow a dance of both unknowing and knowing
Eliza Madrigal: light and shadow
Eliza Madrigal: containing each other
Eliza Madrigal: expressing each other etc
Eliza Madrigal: anyway, if you want my dull report, it is here, lol: https://wiki.playasbeing.org/index.php?title=Guardian_Pages/Guardians%27_Contributions/Eliza/Time_Space_Knowledge_-_Adventures/2016.08.25_-_Clarity
Eliza Madrigal: but no need really :)
Mickorod Renard: he he

Eliza Madrigal: Wol, I know that you haven't had time for concentrated reading and such, but would you like to comment?
Wol Euler sighs.
Wol Euler: nothing beneficial to say, sadly
Wol Euler: it's been a strange and in some ways difficult time
Wol Euler: happy just listening and being taken away from myself
Wol Euler: (done)

Eliza Madrigal: (((Wol))) Thank you
Mickorod Renard: being taken away sounds good
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes hard to balance where we are...all those places at once
Eliza Madrigal: I can sort of hear Pema's voice saying something like, "how about taking tsk where you are?"

Mickorod Renard: I pondered whilst we were discussing..what our natural knowledge would have appeared like prior to all this technology
Eliza Madrigal listens
Mickorod Renard: sorry, just something I threw in
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Wol Euler smiles.
Mickorod Renard: there is a fear in me to abandon knowledge or the additional attainment of it as that seems counter productive
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: that makes a lot of sense Mick
Bleu Oleander: I'm not sure we can abandon the attainment of knowledge Mick
Mickorod Renard: but is it now an obsession?
Mickorod Renard: the attainmant
Mickorod Renard: its a huge leap of knowledge this last century
Bleu Oleander: knowledge happens :)
Eliza Madrigal: maybe it isn't knowledge itself... but one's way of going about it
Eliza Madrigal: why

Bleu Oleander: don't we acquire knowledge whether we go about it or not?
Eliza Madrigal: I always liked the way Eden would talk about traveling lightly
Mickorod Renard: I guess in the past we casually observed it
Eliza Madrigal: as though, lightly means somehow luminous... knowledge 'in play'
Eliza Madrigal: not sort of stacking up
Wol Euler: when I look at the state of politics worldwide I have to conclude that many people are able to prevent themselves from acquiring knowledge
Mickorod Renard: he he
Eliza Madrigal: there's a scary reality
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Tight focal settings.
Tura Brezoianu: knowledge is always available, but everyone can either turn towards it or away from it
Eliza Madrigal: seems why the why is important
Bleu Oleander: well not all knowledge is beneficial, good or practical

Mickorod Renard: anyone seen Ags?...wondered how she is
Eliza Madrigal: curious too.... seemed to have a lot of work for a while
Bruce Mowbray: Saw her Sunday at Bert's chanting.
Mickorod Renard: fantastic
Eliza Madrigal: but people sort of step back at times for various reasons...hope she returns
Bruce Mowbray: Yes seems well.
Mickorod Renard: sorry for breaking the train of thought

Eliza Madrigal: I was reading old sessions the other day.... looking for things about Tilopa's outline
Eliza Madrigal: so many bright and amazing people we've been fortunate to play with
Bruce Mowbray: Tilopa's instructions to Milopa for his meditation, Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: yes Bruce [to Naropa]
Wol Euler: do tell

Bruce Mowbray: I think I can recite them...
Eliza Madrigal: it came up in another session and was part of the spark
Bruce Mowbray: Let go of what has passed.
Mickorod Renard: listens
Bruce Mowbray: Let go of what may come.
Bruce Mowbray: Don't try to make anything happen.
Bruce Mowbray: Don't try to fix anything.

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Relax, right now, and rest.
Eliza Madrigal: Missing only : Let go of what is happening now.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, forgot that one.
Bleu Oleander: hi San :)
Mickorod Renard: wonderful
Eliza Madrigal: thanks so much Bruce

Santoshima Resident: hello :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi San :)
Tura Brezoianu: hello San, I don't think we've met
Mickorod Renard: I relaxed just reading that
Santoshima Resident: hello Tura, good to meet you
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Wol Euler waves to San
Mickorod Renard: Hi San
Wol Euler: thank you Bruce
Eliza Madrigal: Pema would say that the 'rest' line was the foundation...everything else contained in it
Eliza Madrigal: "start at the end"
Eliza Madrigal: How are you doing San? we're just musing
Santoshima Resident: well thanks, sorry to be late ~ pls continue
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eliza Madrigal: https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2016/08/2016.08.23_07:00_-_Do_Not_Must_Read_stack_overflow
Eliza Madrigal: this is the session that caused me to go on my quest
Eliza Madrigal: and there was a beautiful exchange from another session I found along with....
Mickorod Renard: I have 'do not read..stack overflow

Eliza Madrigal:

Bleu Oleander: stillness can hold all the potential for being and yet appear as at rest
Pema Pera nods 
Eliza Madrigal: :) I like reading that text from bottom up... think you suggested that once Pema... has the same sensibility perhaps... like a container... 
Pema Pera doesn't remember, but likes the idea :) 
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Santoshima Resident: top, downward ~ bottom upward / inhale and exhale
Santoshima Resident: all the 6 lines happen at once
Pema Pera nods
Pema Pera: no time

Eliza Madrigal: https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2012/05/2012.05.07_19%3a00_-_Swimming_Ravens_and_Quantum_Sheep

Eliza Madrigal: You were timely in arrival, San :)
Bruce Mowbray: Just found Tilopa's instructions - to Naropa:
Bruce Mowbray: https://ubuntuguru.wordpress.com/201...rds-of-advice/
Bruce Mowbray:

Let go of what has passed.
Let go of what may come.
Let go of what is happening now.
Don’t try to figure anything out.
Don’t try to make anything happen.
Relax, right now, and rest.

Eliza Madrigal: ty!
Bruce Mowbray: yw :)
Mickorod Renard: a lovely session..and thankyou
Wol Euler smiles.
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you all.
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Bruce, thanks all :)
Mickorod Renard: I am going to think about bed...Bye everyone
Eliza Madrigal: night Mick, be happy
Wol Euler: goodnight all
Eliza Madrigal: (mick taking advice to heart, rest, right now)
Mickorod Renard: I will try, thanks,,and you
Bleu Oleander: thanks all
Eliza Madrigal: :) Ty
Tura Brezoianu: goodnight Mick
Bleu Oleander: nice session Eliza ty!
Eliza Madrigal: Nice report, Bleu!
Santoshima Resident: nite, mick
Wol Euler: bedtime for Euros :) take care, be happy and well-rested
Santoshima Resident: nite
Bleu Oleander: take care all
Eliza Madrigal: sweet dreams Wol
Santoshima Resident: bye everyone
Eliza Madrigal: and Tura :)
Tura Brezoianu: same here, thanks all
Eliza Madrigal: bye San, too
Bleu Oleander: bye bye
Santoshima Resident: thank you, bye