Page last modified 23:32, 30 Apr 2013 by eliza
2013.04.21 01:00 - Remembering
Table of contents
No headerseliza posed this session from the listener database...
[01:04] Xs Andree: Hi wol!
[01:04] Wol Euler: hello xs, haven't seen you in a while
[01:04] Xs Andree: so very good to see you again.
[01:05] Xs Andree: yeah. I died.
[01:05] Wol Euler: oops
[01:05] Xs Andree: it wasn't so bad
[01:05] Wol Euler: but you got better?
[01:05] Xs Andree: I became free
[01:05] Wol Euler: ah :)
[01:05] Wol Euler: that sounds okay, then
[01:05] Xs Andree: :D
[01:05] Xs Andree: I was afraid of it for a long time.
[01:06] Wol Euler listens.
[01:06] Xs Andree: I knew it was coming, a huge change, a fall, where I would lose everything.
[01:06] Xs Andree: but as it got closer, it wasn't so bad, and I was ready to accept it.
[01:06] Wol Euler nods.
[01:06] Wol Euler: hello aggers
[01:06] Xs Andree: Hi Agathat!
[01:06] Agatha Macbeth: Guten morgen :)
[01:07] Xs Andree: Agatha, sorry
[01:07] Wol Euler: Xs is talking about dying and becoming free
[01:07] Agatha Macbeth: I've been called worse!
[01:07] Xs Andree: :D
[01:07] Agatha Macbeth: Oh
[01:07] Agatha Macbeth: A bit like the Albigensians you mean?
[01:08] Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
[01:08] Xs Andree: I am unfamiliar with the Albigensian heresies
[01:08] Xs Andree: which...is unusual for me as heresy is one of my favorite subjects.
[01:08] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:08] Agatha Macbeth: Well they are only heresies to us catholics
[01:09] Xs Andree: I don't use the term derogatively. Heresies are very interesting ideas.
[01:09] Agatha Macbeth: Actually there's nothing wrong with healthy disagreement
[01:09] Xs Andree: nods
[01:09] Wol Euler: tell us a little about them, please
[01:09] Agatha Macbeth: Keeps the world turning and all that
[01:09] Xs Andree: Well, my favorite was the Heresy of Arius.
[01:10] Xs Andree: Arius taught that Christ was mortal, a man, not so different than you and I
[01:10] Agatha Macbeth: Well I'm not an expert, but they believed the material world was evil and a prison for the soul (I think)
[01:10] Xs Andree: No more a divine creature than you or I are. His teaching led to the idea that we are all divine.
[01:10] Agatha Macbeth: Hm, divine is as divine does I say
[01:11] Wol Euler: that conclusion sounds pretty mainstream to me, xs
[01:11] Wol Euler: <- not an expert
[01:11] Xs Andree: yet it is in direct contradiction to the Nicean creed
[01:12] Agatha Macbeth: Yep, well that's creeds for you :p
[01:12] Wol Euler: indeed, but I specified the conclusion :)
[01:12] Xs Andree: lol
[01:12] Xs Andree: you did. Most people aren't aware that the idea of divnity in all is a heresy
[01:13] Agatha Macbeth: I think belief is all well and good but when not tempered with adaptability it becomes sheer dogma
[01:13] Wol Euler: hmmmmmm
[01:13] Wol Euler: perhaps my view of religion(s) has been coloured by conversation here
[01:14] Wol Euler: I've come to believe that everyone believes that god (call it that for now) is all around, that everything is an aspect of god
[01:14] Xs Andree: Pantheism
[01:14] Wol Euler: and that since we are part of everything, therefore .... *smiles*
[01:14] Xs Andree: God is in all
[01:14] Xs Andree: I've come across an interesting thought on reincarnation.
[01:14] Wol Euler listens.
[01:17] Xs Andree: If the divine is within us, then remembering anyone's life, at any point in time, could be as simple as connecting with the divine
[01:17] Xs Andree: I could, therefore, remember being Wol, or you, or my great great grandchildren, who haven't even been born yet.
[01:18] Wol Euler nods.
[01:18] Xs Andree: I could remember being a tree, or a rock, or the entire universe.
[01:19] Xs Andree: or the Divine, before the universe was, or after it passes away
[01:19] Agatha Macbeth: Well that's a novel concept
[01:19] Agatha Macbeth: and does make a certain sense
[01:19] Wol Euler: there seems to me to be a pretty big logical leap in there, hidden in the word "simple"
[01:19] Wol Euler: "as simple as connecting with the divine"
[01:20] Wol Euler: granted that, all else could be true
[01:20] Xs Andree: it isn't difficult.
[01:20] Xs Andree: just ask.
[01:21] Wol Euler ponders.
[01:21] Wol Euler: and do you, in fact, remember being your yet unborn great-great-grandchildren?
[01:21] Xs Andree: Haven't tried that yet.
[01:21] Xs Andree: :D
[01:21] Xs Andree: Maybe I will.
[01:21] Wol Euler: well, do let us know :)
[01:22] Xs Andree: Usually I just try to remember the people I am with at the moment.
[01:22] Wol Euler: that can be hard enough, yes
[01:22] Agatha Macbeth: Sounds like me with my dreaming
[01:22] Wol Euler: ah!
[01:22] Wol Euler grins.
[01:22] Xs Andree: ?
[01:22] Wol Euler: how is that going?
[01:22] Wol Euler: I gave Aggers an exercise to try :)
[01:22] Agatha Macbeth: I remembered one the first night and nothing since
[01:23] Wol Euler: and are you actually sitting down IMMEDIATELY and writing?
[01:23] Wol Euler: every time?
[01:23] Wol Euler: really EVERY time?
[01:23] Agatha Macbeth: Well yes, I just don't remember anything
[01:23] Agatha Macbeth: Must be pretty boring stuff
[01:23] Wol Euler: not even a single word?
[01:23] Wol Euler: not a shred of a picture?
[01:23] Agatha Macbeth: Don't think I dream words
[01:23] Wol Euler: whatever :)
[01:23] Xs Andree: :P
[01:24] Wol Euler: how sad :(
[01:24] Agatha Macbeth: Just a boring life I guess
[01:24] Wol Euler: well, please do keep on trying
[01:24] Xs Andree: sometimes it takes time. I used to not dream at all. I think Wol gave me some advice, and I've started to remember more of my dreams.
[01:24] Qt Core: Hi all
[01:24] Wol Euler: it worked once, perhaps it will happen again
[01:24] Wol Euler: hello qt
[01:24] Xs Andree waves
[01:24] Agatha Macbeth: Oh everybody dreams, it's whether we remember them or not
[01:25] Agatha Macbeth: Morning QT
[01:25] Agatha Macbeth: Are you up late or early Xs?
[01:26] Agatha Macbeth wonders if she is crashing
[01:26] Wol Euler: perhaps xs is
[01:27] Wol Euler: or is shocked by your question
[01:27] Agatha Macbeth: Oh it went quiet
[01:27] Agatha Macbeth: that usually means I'm going off soon
[01:27] Wol Euler nods.
[01:27] Xs Andree: was looking at the website
[01:27] Wol Euler: ah
[01:27] Xs Andree: up late.
[01:27] Agatha Macbeth: Oh WB
[01:28] Agatha Macbeth: How is Milan QT?
[01:29] Qt Core: rainy, only difference between winter and spring is that now we have thunders too
[01:29] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:29] Agatha Macbeth: Oh dear
[01:29] Agatha Macbeth: It's lovely here
[01:29] Agatha Macbeth: Sunny, may even cut the back lawn later
[01:29] Qt Core: (we had two 24C day this week)
[01:31] Wol Euler: lovely :)
[01:33] Xs Andree: so, do you remember my story about the woman in the red Dress, Wol?
[01:33] Wol Euler: to be honest, I'm not sure I do
[01:34] Agatha Macbeth: I remember the one in the Matrix
[01:34] Xs Andree: I manifested a person once, it was an experiment, if I could imagine something and see it come into reality
[01:34] Wol Euler listens.
[01:34] Agatha Macbeth: A tulpa?
[01:35] Xs Andree: A woman in a red dress, we would speak briefly, and then we wouldn't speak or meet again.
[01:35] Xs Andree: that night, I met a woman in a red dress, just as I imagined her, pale skin, dark hair...she said that it seemed I had a lot of good Karma
[01:36] Wol Euler: wow
[01:36] Xs Andree: so...I called her Karma, but her name was actually "Awesome"
[01:36] Xs Andree: a few weeks ago, I was walking to the corner store...and I passed by a new club opening in the bar district...
[01:36] Xs Andree: called "Karma Lounge"
[01:37] Wol Euler: so of course you went in :)
[01:37] Xs Andree: and as I turned the corner, I saw a woman in a red dress walking in front of it.
[01:37] Xs Andree: nah, they are still building it, it isn't finished yet.
[01:37] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:37] Wol Euler: fascinating
[01:38] Wol Euler: how do you feel about the woman in the red dress (as a figure)?
[01:38] Xs Andree: I used to be a little afraid of her.
[01:38] Wol Euler: is she like the Native American's animal spirit guardian/guide?
[01:38] Xs Andree: She was my assasin
[01:38] Agatha Macbeth: The woman in red seems to be fast becoming an archetype
[01:38] Xs Andree: :D
[01:38] Xs Andree: She's the western idea of Karma
[01:38] Wol Euler: Fate
[01:39] Wol Euler: Fate wears a red dress
[01:39] Agatha Macbeth: Aha
[01:39] Xs Andree: nods
[01:39] Wol Euler: (and no underwear :-P
[01:39] Agatha Macbeth: Fatal attraction
[01:39] Xs Andree: I met a young man the other day, he had death dreams like I used to have. Dreams where he dies.
[01:39] Wol Euler nods.
[01:40] Xs Andree: the one he remembered the most was a car accident he got into...and a woman in a red dress came up to him where he was thrown free from the vehicle, and stabbed him in the chest with a knfe
[01:40] Xs Andree: lol woler
[01:40] Xs Andree: now...I welcome Karma
[01:41] Wol Euler: might as well, there's no escaping it
[01:41] Wol Euler grins.
[01:41] Xs Andree: that is what they say...
[01:41] Xs Andree: Siva dances the dance of Maya, which creates the Iinescapable illusion of karma
[01:42] Xs Andree: I nod my gratitude to my assasin.
[01:42] Wol Euler: if it is inescapable, then it doesn't matter whether it's an illusion or not
[01:42] Xs Andree: not so. If it is an illusion, one may not be able to escape it, but knowing it is an illusion helps one grasp and understand it.
[01:43] Wol Euler: but the result will be the same
[01:43] Wol Euler: if it *is* inescapable
[01:43] Xs Andree: the idea of cause and effect...is kind of like saying a person's nose caused their face because it always enters the room first.
[01:43] Agatha Macbeth: It's like that arab bloke again
[01:43] Wol Euler: ?
[01:44] Agatha Macbeth: My face does tend to follow my nose, I've noticed that too
[01:44] Xs Andree: giggles
[01:44] Agatha Macbeth: And my shadow always follows me too
[01:46] Xs Andree: well...chronos time, the movement of one moment into the next...gives us a one dimensional view of time. Like viewing everything through the crack in a fence.
[01:47] Xs Andree: But nothing happens in an instant, all events happen over a duration.
[01:47] Xs Andree: they take up a "space" a "volume" through time.
[01:47] Agatha Macbeth: That's how the Tralfamadorians see it too
[01:48] Xs Andree: Some events always follow others because they are not seperate from one another, but part of the same event.
[01:48] Xs Andree: hence the illusion of cause and effect
[01:48] Xs Andree: who are the Tralfamadorians?
[01:48] Wol Euler: so if I drop a milk bottle and watch it shatter, and then cut my foot on the shards, it isn't really broken?
[01:48] Agatha Macbeth: You don't know Slaughterhouse 5?
[01:48] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:48] Agatha Macbeth: Kurt Vonnegut
[01:48] Xs Andree: ooooh I keep hearing that name.
[01:49] Xs Andree: that's a band, right?
[01:49] Agatha Macbeth: It's really good
[01:49] Xs Andree: no...
[01:49] Agatha Macbeth: Well it may be, but primarily a book
[01:49] Agatha Macbeth: and a film
[01:49] Xs Andree: ah.
[01:49] Xs Andree: I'll have to watch it!
[01:49] Agatha Macbeth nods
[01:49] Agatha Macbeth: The book is better tho I think
[01:49] Wol Euler: that's usually the case
[01:49] Xs Andree: well...it IS broken, and it isn't as well, just depends on when you are looking at it.
[01:50] Agatha Macbeth: Yes
[01:50] Agatha Macbeth: For me anyway
[01:50] Xs Andree: for it to be broken, it had to be whole at one point. Therefore, if you never seen it whole, but only saw it broken, you already know that it was once whole.
[01:50] Xs Andree: and all that you see, eventually breaks.
[01:51] Xs Andree: even you and I....
[01:51] Xs Andree: so you can see things....as events, through time and gain a better understanding of them.
[01:52] Xs Andree: right now, you are being born.
[01:52] Xs Andree: right now you'll be up late at night, unable to sleep because of something someone said tomorrow
[01:52] Xs Andree: right now, you are saying your last words.
[01:52] Xs Andree: Right now, you are being kissed for the first time.
[01:53] Xs Andree: Falling in love for the last time
[01:53] Xs Andree: saying your first goodbye.
[01:54] Agatha Macbeth: JW Dunne said something similar in An Experiment with Time: all time is like a book, but we can only see one page
[01:54] Wol Euler nods.
[01:56] Xs Andree: It was about a year ago that I found the Eternal Moment.
[01:57] Xs Andree: I didn't know what it was. So that is what I called it.
[01:57] Xs Andree: I didn't know how it happened, either.
[01:57] Xs Andree: Until I came here, and did the 9 second excersices.
[01:57] Xs Andree: and found it again
[01:57] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:58] Wol Euler: so many overlaps and similarities .....
[01:59] Xs Andree: synchronicity
[01:59] Wol Euler: human nature :)
[01:59] Agatha Macbeth: Herr Jung
[01:59] Wol Euler: or divine nature, perhpas
[01:59] Xs Andree: Herr Jung
[01:59] Xs Andree: ??
[01:59] Xs Andree: Carl Jung?
[02:00] Agatha Macbeth: Ja
[02:04] Wol Euler: my dears, this has been quite wonderful, and please do continue
[02:04] Wol Euler: but I must start geting ready for work
[02:04] Agatha Macbeth: Aww
[02:04] Wol Euler: thank you, and enjoy your sundays
[02:04] Agatha Macbeth: Actually I need a walk to wake me up
[02:04] Qt Core: Bye WOl
[02:04] Xs Andree: Thank you Wol
[02:04] Agatha Macbeth: Bye for now
[02:04] Xs Andree: hah
[02:04] Qt Core: Bye Agatha
[02:05] Xs Andree: my meditation music just ended.
[02:05] Agatha Macbeth: Ciao QT
[02:05] Xs Andree: :D
[02:05] Qt Core: timed it ?
[02:05] Xs Andree: talk about synchricity
[02:05] Xs Andree: nope
[02:05] Qt Core: :-)
[02:05] Xs Andree: just came to an end as Wol said goodnight.
[02:05] Xs Andree: I love my life.
[02:06] Qt Core: good
[02:06] Xs Andree: it was good seeing you again, Qt.
[02:07] Qt Core: i have to go too, if i want to eat i have to cook something
[02:07] Qt Core: bye Xs and have fun
[02:08] Xs Andree: You too.
[02:08] Xs Andree: ao on
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