2013.04.26 01:00 - Fools, Folly, and Muddy Valley Bottoms

eliza posted this session from the auto-listener database...

[01:06] Wol Euler: good morning Stevie
[01:06] Wol Euler: if it is "morning" already :)
[01:06] stevenaia Michinaga: yes , it will be morning soon :)
[01:06] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:06] stevenaia Michinaga: Haven't seen you in white, a special occasion
[01:06] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:06] Wol Euler: it's fairly unusual, I will admit
[01:06] Wol Euler: but felt appropriate to the season
[01:07] stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I break out my Panama hat when the season's change
[01:07] Wol Euler grins.

[01:07] stevenaia Michinaga: signs of spring
[01:07] Wol Euler: mmhmm
[01:07] Wol Euler: such a lovely, optimistic time of year

[01:08] stevenaia Michinaga: trying with success to find that amongst many dark clouds
[01:09] Wol Euler: I wish you luck. Do you want to talk about that?

[01:11] stevenaia Michinaga: I have always believed that life has the potential to fall off the edge at any time, however, it;s just a matterof you noticing the edge or not, lately I have been noticing (the clouds)
[01:11] Wol Euler listens.
[01:11] stevenaia Michinaga: or the edge, but never falling off
[01:12] stevenaia Michinaga: I think I am wired to look up at the sky . not down at the edge :)
[01:12] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:12] stevenaia Michinaga: but sometimes the edge just keeps jumping up and down and waving it's arms
[01:13] stevenaia Michinaga: i.e. hard not to notice
[01:13] stevenaia Michinaga: but, the choice to ignore it is all mine
[01:13] Wol Euler nods.

[01:14] stevenaia Michinaga: then I realize, there is always balance, the edge shows you what is above, like spring and change and taking out my Panama hat
[01:16] stevenaia Michinaga: and one is necessary to show you the other
[01:16] Wol Euler nods.

[01:17] stevenaia Michinaga: I remember once, which probably created this metaphor for me, I was hiking in my youth on the ridge of a mountain chain, the Appillachian trail
[01:17] Wol Euler listens.
[01:17] stevenaia Michinaga: below on one side was a great river
[01:18] stevenaia Michinaga: and on the other side was another parallel ridge
[01:19] stevenaia Michinaga: my friend and I decided to exploe the other ridge which didn;t appear to dificult so we left the ease of walking the ridge and traveled down the side to the bottom between the ridge where there was mud and a stream, as there usually is between mountain.
[01:19] Wol Euler nods.
[01:20] stevenaia Michinaga: it was much work and muck and no trail to follw and generally a bad choice
[01:21] stevenaia Michinaga: so we climbed back on the ridge (hours later) and walked the level path knowing what we saw and where we were going was a much easier (an appreciated) way to go
[01:21] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:21] Wol Euler: there's a lesson in that somewhere, I am sure :)
[01:21] stevenaia Michinaga: smiles

[01:22] stevenaia Michinaga: the folly of youth
[01:22] Wol Euler nods.
[01:22] Wol Euler: youth is for follies though, it's like complaining that rain makes the ground wet
[01:22] stevenaia Michinaga: yes, it is needed
[01:22] stevenaia Michinaga: for things to grow
[01:23] Wol Euler: and just because a path is easy to tread, doesn't make it a bad one
[01:23] Wol Euler: easier
[01:23] Wol Euler: we overvalue stress and strain, I sometimes think
[01:23] Wol Euler: making them into virtues
[01:24] stevenaia Michinaga: yes, and just becuas there's an edge to fall off of, doesn't mean you should see what's down there
[01:24] Wol Euler nods.

[01:26] stevenaia Michinaga: so how does this apply, I wrote a letter to my current "edge" (an inept, but very enticing corporate client) and told them if they persist in the path they are going it will be their loss
[01:26] Wol Euler nods.
[01:28] stevenaia Michinaga: and learn to appreciate their message, to not jump off the edge , just because it looks good down there
[01:28] stevenaia Michinaga: but it smells
[01:29] Wol Euler: heheh
[01:29] Wol Euler: sounds like good advice to me

[01:29] Wol Euler: I feel that we have a duty to advise as much as to produce drawings
[01:33] stevenaia Michinaga: nods, it's that duty and investment in time that that sometimes dulls your judgement... just another 40 hours and maybe they will do the right things, after you already put a few hundred hours in
[01:33] Wol Euler nods.
[01:33] stevenaia Michinaga: uncompensated time
[01:33] Wol Euler nods.
[01:33] Wol Euler: the curse of the profession
[01:33] Wol Euler: many professions actually

[01:34] stevenaia Michinaga: I can't imaging there are fools in other professions to, thought we cornered the market
[01:35] Wol Euler laughs.
[01:35] Wol Euler: it's natural to us to make mistakes, we are taking a tool that evolved to tell the difference between a tiger and a strawberry
[01:36] Wol Euler: and using it to make judgements about future happiness
[01:36] Wol Euler: full of subconditions
[01:36] stevenaia Michinaga: yet, someone (?) designed a cute tiger
[01:36] Wol Euler nods.
[01:37] Wol Euler: oh yes, very attractive, that is what makes them so hard to tell apart!
[01:37] stevenaia Michinaga: even my cat likes to taste me sometimes
[01:37] Wol Euler: there, you see? :)
[01:37] Wol Euler smiles.

[01:37] Wol Euler: there is something very calming and centering about being groomed by a cat, I find
[01:38] stevenaia Michinaga: :)
[01:40] stevenaia Michinaga: I have found this week's topic interesting in that so few find acceptance, (deep or not) in they way they see things
[01:41] stevenaia Michinaga: it's nice when a topic brings out differing perspectives
[01:41] Wol Euler nods.
[01:43] stevenaia Michinaga: some feels acceptance dulls the emotions, other (like me) view it as a lovely quiet place to express a certain degree of love for what you accept (things , events, or people's situations), not needing to change "it" but understand
[01:44] Wol Euler: agreed
[01:44] Wol Euler: (the observation and the feeling)
[01:45] stevenaia Michinaga: that's where change occurs, within you
[01:46] Wol Euler nods.
[01:47] Wol Euler: to me it is mostly about the inner self, our judgement about what is happening
[01:47] Wol Euler: ideal would be to avoid condemning even those things that you work against

[01:48] stevenaia Michinaga: some things you can't rush in life, but it is usually worth the wait for wisdom, including all the tripping you do to get there
[01:48] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:48] Wol Euler: and the muddy valley bottoms
[01:48] stevenaia Michinaga: and the dead ends in a design process
[01:48] Wol Euler: right
[01:49] stevenaia Michinaga: all essential
[01:49] Wol Euler: but you don't hate the dead end!
[01:49] Wol Euler: and you don't or shouldn't condemn yourself as a fool for having taken it
[01:49] stevenaia Michinaga: but essential
[01:49] Wol Euler: right
[01:49] Wol Euler: you have to draw up your idea in order to see why it doesn't work :)
[01:49] stevenaia Michinaga: unles you have to explain that it took to 12 hours to find something that doesn;t work
[01:49] stevenaia Michinaga: yes
[01:50] Wol Euler: that might seem like a waste of time, but only after getting there
[01:50] stevenaia Michinaga: no one has time to pay you for that, they jsut want what ends up looking so simple it's obvious
[01:50] Wol Euler: mmhmm
[01:51] stevenaia Michinaga: so how long could that possibly hav taken?
[01:51] stevenaia Michinaga: 12 hours of things not working, that's how long.
[01:51] Wol Euler nods.
[01:52] Wol Euler: it's the old "I could have done that" thing that every artist faces
[01:52] stevenaia Michinaga: you can't eat the ingredients of a cake w/o baking it and expect it to taste good, after all
[01:53] Wol Euler: Frank Lloyd Wright used to demand money up front from his clients, as a sign of their seriousness of intention, and to make them take him seriously
[01:53] Wol Euler: perhaps we should too
[01:53] stevenaia Michinaga: I do
[01:53] Wol Euler: ah :)
[01:53] Wol Euler: good
[01:54] stevenaia Michinaga: and when they try to negotiate that, I usually leave
[01:54] Wol Euler applauds!
[01:54] Wol Euler: quite right
[01:54] Wol Euler: "this is what I am worth, if all you want is cheap go to Walmart"
[01:54] stevenaia Michinaga: I can burn through a retainer quire quickly
[01:55] stevenaia Michinaga: cheap now means how can you expect to ahve the money to actually build the thing
[01:55] stevenaia Michinaga: and thye usually don't
[01:55] Wol Euler nods.
[01:56] stevenaia Michinaga: they there are the people who ask for a bill so they can pay you before you leave
[01:56] stevenaia Michinaga: *then
[01:58] Wol Euler: I'm not sure what you mean to say
[01:59] stevenaia Michinaga: there are those people who suprise you with good intensions
[01:59] Wol Euler: ah :) yes, good
[01:59] Wol Euler: I thought maybe that was a way of being fired
[02:00] stevenaia Michinaga: :)
[02:01] Wol Euler sighs.
[02:02] Wol Euler: this has been a great chat, stevie, but I must get ready for work
[02:02] stevenaia Michinaga: sun will be up soon, time for breakfast
[02:02] Wol Euler: duty calls
[02:02] Wol Euler smiles.
[02:02] stevenaia Michinaga: yes
[02:02] stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy
[02:02] Wol Euler: enjoy your day, clouds and all
[02:02] stevenaia Michinaga: :)
[02:02] stevenaia Michinaga: nice to be able to blow most of them away
[02:02] Wol Euler: :)