2014.05.26 13:00 - Empty Nesty

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza.

--BELL--
 

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Kori!
Eliza Madrigal: LTNS
Korel Laloix: Osiyo
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu, and Bruce!
Korel Laloix: Not been in Sl much recently.
Eliza Madrigal: nor I... very nice to see you
Bleu Oleander: hi all :)
Bruce Mowbray: Osiyo, Kori and Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal: the last weekend was an exception... retreating was a nice way to reconnect with both SL and PaB

Bleu Oleander: how was your retreat?
Eliza Madrigal: peaceful, warm, appreciative
Bruce Mowbray: Osiyo, Bleu!
Bleu Oleander: nice
Eliza Madrigal: It was. It was probably the most simple retreat that we've had, and that gave it a sort of sweetness
Eliza Madrigal: just lightly touching base

Eliza Madrigal: I think it was "33 Days" that got me focusing on today's sort-of topic though
Eliza Madrigal: ... the way that one sets out to commit to something, and at least in my case, what can happen is that I see not only how hard it is to form a new habit intentionally.... but how wrapped up that intention is with others
Eliza Madrigal: it exposes a lot of set patterns, hidden motives, wishes
Eliza Madrigal: and of course that brought me to think about recent discussions about PlayasBeing, too

Bruce Mowbray: [finally sees the cushion and listens intently.]
Eliza Madrigal: hahah Bruce...wondered what you were doing
Bruce Mowbray: I was sitting in midair....
Eliza Madrigal: thought maybe you were shaking up your patterns :)
Bruce Mowbray: (until the blue cushion appeared.)
Eliza Madrigal: ah :)
Bruce Mowbray: nods and listens.

Eliza Madrigal: Also.... (and this will be the last part of my "intro")
Eliza Madrigal: I was thinking about our discussions about enlightenment, and the buddhist course quite a few of us took, and asked myself whether the bodhisattva ideal throws the selflessness of buddhahood into question
Bruce Mowbray: are you referring to the vow to continue incarnations until all beings are enlightened?
Eliza Madrigal: what I mean is that if Buddha decides to completely awaken, but a bodhisattva decides not to awaken until they bring everyone else with them... doesn't it make buddhahood seem less altruistic?
Eliza Madrigal: so maybe realized I can't fathom buddhahood in a true way
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm....

Eliza Madrigal: anyway, using it as a metaphor, is it better to think collectively?
Eliza Madrigal: or try to? or impossible?
Eliza Madrigal: if worthy, how? in a group like ours

Bleu Oleander: hiya Wol
Wol Euler: evening all!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol :) I've just finished ranting and will send you an IM
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Wol Euler: heheheh
Wol Euler: sad to have missed that!
Korel Laloix: Groupthink is usually with a negative connotation.
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Bruce Mowbray: Osiyo, Wol!
Wol Euler: you are usually so calm and collected.
Eliza Madrigal: ah, the smoke and mirrors of SL ^.^
Wol Euler chuckles.

Bleu Oleander: interesting that you come from "reconcile devotion and commitment, with letting go" to questioning "buddhahood" to thinking collectively :)
Bleu Oleander: almost too much to wrap a mind around
Bleu Oleander: for me anyway lol
Eliza Madrigal: hah... I could connect it better I think... email intro with this one... but I'm not sure it would be as inclusive as I would hope for all of us to discuss

Bleu Oleander: where to start?

Bruce Mowbray: [I'm going to have to re-boot. Nothing I type is getting into the chat box. be right back (if you can see this.)]
Eliza Madrigal: okay Bruce, good luck
Eliza Madrigal: when one makes a commitment to do something, even for a small period like 33 Days, it shows up one's character... or does it? Can one make a one sided commitment?


--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: it shows one can either keep a commitment or not, maybe too much to put character on the line?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen, and wb Bruce :)
Wol Euler: I'm not sure what you mean by one-sided? to yourself only?
Bleu Oleander: hiya Zen
Wol Euler: hello zen
Eliza Madrigal: yes, "I will" do this thing
Bruce Mowbray: ty, but now I don't have a cushion again. I'm going to move over by Zen.

Zen Arado: Hi everybody

Eliza Madrigal: another way to approach may be to ask something simple like, being part of a group like ours... what is the commitment we make?
Eliza Madrigal: is it reasonable to ask a base level of ourselves and others... or just go our own way
Eliza Madrigal: I might say the 90 seconds when here has become the base commitment, whereas it started with 9 seconds throughout the day
Bruce Mowbray: nods.

Bleu Oleander: seems each of us may have our own type and degree of commitment and our own understanding and participation with the 90 seconds?
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Zen Arado: commitment suggests stasis too
Zen Arado: stuck in a pattern
Zen Arado: there is a time to give up commitments

Bleu Oleander: for me, the 90 seconds pauses have lost some importance in the overall participation in PaB
Zen Arado: sorry but it never meant anything much to me
Eliza Madrigal: do you have a sense of why that is, Bleu?
Zen Arado: I just come here because I like the people

Bruce Mowbray: I would also ask what the "goal" of any commitment is. And for "us" it might be different things. For myself, the ultimate "goal" is something like "harmonious participation with/in the Cosmic order." (Sry if that's a bit obtuse, but it's the only way I know to express it.)
Bleu Oleander: I think it was an experiment at first and it held my interest for a while ...
Eliza Madrigal smiles at Bruce... appreciate stretching to describe... afflicted with the same ^.^
Bruce Mowbray: It's fluid.
Zen Arado: is it necessary to have a goal?
Bruce Mowbray: which does not mean that it's invalid.
Zen Arado: why not just see what happens as Pema used to say?
Bleu Oleander: agree with Zen, just nice to have a conversation and be here
Bruce Mowbray: I think of it more as a baseline.
Eliza Madrigal: no, but over the last few weeks, I have asked myself the same question and I believe that my own lessening of enthusiasm has to do with, hm... if others don't take something to be as worthy, then I feel silly to keep feeding... if that makes sense
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: the group endeavorness is very important to me
Bruce Mowbray: it makes a great deal of sense, . Eliza. and, frankly, I have admired your perseverance.
Zen Arado: endeavorness?

Wol Euler:one of the reasons I come here is to remember early conversations with Pema and Stim, here and in the pavilion at Rieul
Eliza Madrigal: mhm ::hands Zen an Eliza translator::::
Eliza Madrigal grins
Zen Arado: heh need American one
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: me too, Wol... is that nostalgia?
Zen Arado: things move on
Zen Arado: they have changed a lot since Stim days
Bleu Oleander: is that attachment?
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Wol Euler: perhaps; but for myself I think it's more a refreshing of ideas and purpose.
Zen Arado: hopefully we are all more awake now
Zen Arado: less dependent om techniques?

Bruce Mowbray: What really matters to me, though, is that Eliza - as well as each of us - conduct herself, motivate herself, adjust her priorities from the inside out. . . , not because those things might be expected by others in the group.
Eliza Madrigal: :) well, I think there is value in "communication"
Eliza Madrigal: this way of communication we have
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: it is a kind of group think?
Bleu Oleander: agrees
Bruce Mowbray: also nods.
Eliza Madrigal: that we've cultivated over time, somewhat purposefully?
Zen Arado: I have to face the fact that everyone else sees things differently
Wol Euler: indeed :) as do all groups that meet regularly over time
Bleu Oleander: group think sounds like one voice ... to me there are many voices here
Wol Euler: from accountants to nuclear scientists
Wol Euler: to trainspotters
Zen Arado: and realize what I say has little meaning to others
Bruce Mowbray: , the validity of any communication, however, -- , at least, it seems to me -- is that it is consistent with ones being, and that, again for me, is an inward rather than an outward impulse.

(a few fixes made)

Bruce Mowbray: (DARN this Dragon!)
Zen Arado: heheh
Eliza Madrigal: dragon gives wonderful typos though
Zen Arado: I am just typing
Eliza Madrigal: it is like having faenik back at times :)
Bruce Mowbray: I should go back to typing.

Eliza Madrigal: so then.... disparate voices rather than one voice... leaderlessness....
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
Eliza Madrigal: how does a new phase take place? collective decisioning?
Bleu Oleander: well there can be leaders, without resorting to only one voice perhaps?
Bruce Mowbray: (are you saying something like " majority rule"?)
Bruce Mowbray: or are you saying " consensus"?
Eliza Madrigal: I don't know, Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: kk, no problem.
Eliza Madrigal: I've participated in consensus meetings in SL and while worthy intellectually...
Eliza Madrigal: it still came down to a few voices
Wol Euler nods.

Bleu Oleander: are you talking about a new phase for PaB?
Zen Arado: all groups have talkers and silent
Wol Euler: the idea of leadership here in the absence of Pema is something of an elephant in our kitchen

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: yes...
Bruce Mowbray: From everything that Eliza has ever done in PaB -- at least everything that I have witnessed -- there has always been a profound respect for every individual in the group, as well as a profound inward respect, a knowing of who she is, where she is.... and honouring that both for herself, and for each of us who have been privileged to be there. I am so grateful for that, , but I hold her to nothing.
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: agreed
Zen Arado: perhaps the internet encourages new forms of collaboration
Zen Arado: old models die out
Eliza Madrigal: kind to say Bruce... but, let me get really personal for a second... it has taken roughly 7 years for me to, in a way I feel positive about, transition, in my family life
Zen Arado: yes mutual respect is vital
Eliza Madrigal: preserving the family while letting go of what started the family
Bruce Mowbray: nods, and listens even more carefully.
Eliza Madrigal: wanting to do things in a way that everyone will feel good about, and will preserve the (for lack of better word) goodness...
Eliza Madrigal: it has felt at times, like an ongoing brain surgery, lol
Bruce Mowbray: Preserving goodness is good . . . , but it is not a one- woman task.
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: right
Eliza Madrigal: communication, is why it took a long time I think :)
Zen Arado: takes a village to rear a child...
Eliza Madrigal: so I'm trying to learn
Bruce Mowbray: unless, maybe, you have a Joan of Arc complex --- and I know you do not.
Eliza Madrigal: lol , hm
Zen Arado: I know women like that
Zen Arado: martyrs to their children
Zen Arado: who give them abuse
Eliza Madrigal tries not to ruffle feathers at "women like that"
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: for their trouble
Bruce Mowbray: nods. , I do too, Zen, but mostly I know men like that -- Napoleons.

Bleu Oleander: the "PaB family" can be a metaphor for that and/or vice versa perhaps?
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Zen Arado: oh yes not confined to women
Bruce Mowbray: ;)))
Eliza Madrigal: the question is that Bleu... really appreciate your clear questions
Bleu Oleander: :)

Eliza Madrigal: what makes the effort of changing waves, worthwhile? simply our friendship here?
Zen Arado: but family are there all the time
Zen Arado: that's what makes it hard
Eliza Madrigal: not necessarily Zen
Eliza Madrigal: lots of estranged families
Bleu Oleander: its a kind of acceptance
Zen Arado: well a lot of the time
Eliza Madrigal nods...
Zen Arado: that is kinda implied by gthe word

Bleu Oleander: we each are accepted and accept the others
Zen Arado: close knit group

Eliza Madrigal: true
Bruce Mowbray: (Identifies closely with "estranged families")
Eliza Madrigal: yes, or sometimes there are just estranged members
Bruce Mowbray: nods.
Bleu Oleander: sure
Bleu Oleander: it takes a commitment as we mentioned earlier?
Bruce Mowbray: so, perhaps, it comes down to priorities..... And I would think that family would be very close to the top of such a list.
Eliza Madrigal: I think so, commitment... but how can anyone ask such a thing in an environment like this?

Zen Arado: there is a time to leave a family as well
Eliza Madrigal: is there?
Eliza Madrigal: maybe to change roles, but always to leave?
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps I should explain: I am talking about the three-kids-in-a-tub family . . .
Zen Arado: there is a season for all things as it says in the Bible
Eliza Madrigal: hmm
Zen Arado: when the kids grow up I mean
Zen Arado: three kids in a tub ?

Wol Euler: what's happening in PaB is, I think, similar to what happens in families when the parents die leaving the siblings on their own together (as it were). There's no "given" any more, no external guidance

Bruce Mowbray: a time for all things under heaven. . . . , even a time for kids to grow up, move out on their own, take their baths alone . . . . . I can hardly imagine anything more difficult for a parent, , but the job of parenting is to teach them to walk independently, following their own inner call.
Zen Arado: Gets American translator out again
Wol Euler: and it all has to be renegotiated
Eliza Madrigal: that's a very good way of saying it Wol
Wol Euler: suddenly the siblings, who thought of themselves as the children, the junior members, are the seniors

Zen Arado: similarly there comes a time when we need to leave groups?
Bruce Mowbray: yeppers, and in a way, they are the seniors.
Zen Arado: Like I left a nightclub last year
Zen Arado: an art club
Bruce Mowbray: nods.
Zen Arado: using voice typing again as you can see
Zen Arado: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yayyyyy!
Bleu Oleander: are we looking for guidance or a sharing of a range of ideas? and what was the "given"?
Bruce Mowbray: . Let's hear it for the Dragon!
Wol Euler: the given was the way that Pema shaped every meeting here
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Zen Arado: hip hip boo

Eliza Madrigal: maybe... yes... that's what we ask for ourselves "is this a family or a club?" :))
Eliza Madrigal: if a club, then I leave when I'm no longer 'learning' or no longer admired enough
Wol Euler: the famous old-style discussions everyone misses are those he used to lead
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: I guess I entered too late to perceive that ... always seemed more like an open conversation to me

Bruce Mowbray: or maybe, this is a sacred circle.... are gathering in which we share our stories, and our compassion. , I would loved to have had a family like that, , but it was not to be.

Eliza Madrigal: well, Pema challenged
Wol Euler: indeed :)
Wol Euler smiles fondly
Bleu Oleander: yes and so did others
Eliza Madrigal: actually I didn't see Pema "as" PaB for a long time

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Is PaB a surrogate family? Actually, , I would not hold it to that standard. A sacred circle of friends listening to each other,'s stories, having compassion for each other's predicament , whatever that might be. . . . . That is quite enough for me to hope for.

Zen Arado: it's funny but this is starting to sound like Miralee on perfect paradise
Eliza Madrigal: I do think Pema's voice and the idea of his listening shaped most meetings, for a lot of people, for a long time
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
Eliza Madrigal: :) nice phrasing, Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: I agree!
Bruce Mowbray loves the echoes.
Zen Arado: she is always talking about building community
Bruce Mowbray: yes.
Eliza Madrigal: well, but PP IS Mira's community
Eliza Madrigal: there IS a leader there
Zen Arado: heheh
Zen Arado: she says there isn't
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :P
Bleu Oleander: Pema said that too :P
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Bruce Mowbray: (REAL "leaders" often shy away from that label.)

Bleu Oleander: why is it that leaders say they aren't ?
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: makes them a target
Wol Euler: there's a difference between a leader and a boss :)
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bruce Mowbray: perhaps it is something about wanting the " Force" to move through them -- , not merely out of them.
Zen Arado: if things go wrong you have to take responsibility
Eliza Madrigal: also, a leader never gets to lean in return
Eliza Madrigal: they always have to drive things
Bruce Mowbray: a true leader will take responsibility.
Eliza Madrigal: or may feel that they do
Eliza Madrigal: whereas I believe Pema wanted "play mates" of sorts
Wol Euler: yes

Bruce Mowbray: , Eliza, , why do you say that a leader never gets to lean?
Bleu Oleander: "playmates" :)
Bruce Mowbray: did you mean to say " learn"? because " never gets to lean" seems so unfair.
Eliza Madrigal: well, they may feel that way... if there is a gap then a leader feels that eyes are on them
Bleu Oleander: so this is a variation on a "sandbox" :)
Bruce Mowbray sets on hands and listens, carefully.
Eliza Madrigal: I saw it that way for a long time I think
Bleu Oleander: does feel like that
Eliza Madrigal: I don't want to speak for Pema btw
Bruce Mowbray: ( We understand that, , Eliza.)

Eliza Madrigal: I think friendship is enough, here, but also that there is a practical need for changes
Bruce Mowbray: , or at least I do, and feel that the others do as well.
Eliza Madrigal: it is logistical
Bleu Oleander: new guidelines for the sandbox in a way
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bruce Mowbray: so are we talking about " Rules for playing" -- not only in the sandbox, but everywhere? And who would design such a world? I prefer harmony to rules.
Bruce Mowbray: , any kid who steals another kid's candy bar knows that is not right -- not harmonious. Surely, we are as grown up as that kid.

Bleu Oleander: beyond friends getting together for conversation, what else is important to say?
Bruce Mowbray: Eliza, , may I ask you please to be very specific about your need.
Bruce Mowbray: . What is it you need ---- from us, right now?

Eliza Madrigal: I'm re-negotiating my time, personally, but also with others in mind... sessions here are dwindling, I'm posting a lot of empty ones...
Eliza Madrigal: and I think it is fairly obvious that reworking some things practically is a good idea
Bruce Mowbray: nods; listens.
Eliza Madrigal: however... sometimes I do ask myself, whether I'm hanging on to something that is not as vital for others...
Eliza Madrigal: as it indeed is for me
Wol Euler nods.
Bleu Oleander: what is "vital" for you?
Eliza Madrigal: our friendships, but also a sense of exploration and challenge here, without discord... care for one another
Bruce Mowbray: nods and nods and nods.
Eliza Madrigal: I care that some have empty sessions almost all the time lately

Bruce Mowbray: (Bruce has had three consecutive empty sessions, btw.)
Bruce Mowbray: (so, he understands.)
Bleu Oleander: so what is the exploration now? same as when Pema started PaB? or has it evolved?

Bruce Mowbray: OHHHH! Not at all the same!
Bruce Mowbray: or, not ENTIRELY, the same, sry.
Eliza Madrigal: yes... a glance at this month's logs is kind of strange...
Bleu Oleander: perhaps empty sessions can be resolved by scheduling fewer sessions?
Eliza Madrigal: I don't know Bleu, maybe it can

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: or maybe with teams of hosts
Bruce Mowbray: (Tells Blub to stop swimming, darn it!)
Zen Arado: I have to confess that I have grown a little weary of explorations not just here but I found the last meditation meeting I went to in real life got annoying because they kept talking and arguing about their problems and how to fix them. Perhaps most people prefer their dreams and strategies rather than just settle back into reality
Eliza Madrigal: simplify vision?
Bruce Mowbray: thank you, Zen, for that. my experience is that your observation is right on - smack dab on the centre of the target.

Eliza Madrigal: sometimes people join groups just to fill the time and loneliness... many people have been conditioned to think that bonding means talking about problems I think
Arisia Vita: greetings friends
Bleu Oleander: hiya Ari
Wol Euler: hello ari!
Eliza Madrigal: that was a kind of refreshment to me about PaB in the beginning... an underlying exploration
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ari :)
Bruce Mowbray: WELCOME, ARI!
Zen Arado: Hi Ari
Zen Arado: they think there is some magic answer around the corner
Eliza Madrigal: so problems and life situations would come up, but in a larger context of what can we directly experience
Wol Euler nods.
Zen Arado: it's this always trying to fix life
Eliza Madrigal: one thing I see in retreats is that sometimes it IS important to share something, but that is different than looking for advice or an answer
Zen Arado: life is pleasant sometimes and sometimes it is unpleasant

Zen Arado: that's why I prefer silent retreats... There is nowhere to run away from yourself
Eliza Madrigal: no matter where you go there you are :P even in silence
Wol Euler nods.
Bruce Mowbray: my typist seems to have found an infinity of escapes, actually . . .
Zen Arado: but we can distract ourselves
Bruce Mowbray: Too much silence? Your finger on the table, tapping . . . Ahhhh! Escape!

Zen Arado: I read a bit of Burnt Norton for them last Saturday Eliza
Zen Arado: and I mentioned the line 'humankind cannot bear very much reality'
Bruce Mowbray: nods and nods.
Zen Arado: I think it upset Gentle a bit
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Zen Arado: she said, that's unfortunate because we have to live in reality
Bruce Mowbray: (MULTIPLE realities, actually. take your pick.)
Bleu Oleander: we are reality not living in reality?
Zen Arado: but really I think we spend most of our time in dreams
Bruce Mowbray: , or make your own!
Eliza Madrigal: dreams are very powerful
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes they show us our real intentions and motives
Zen Arado: I was a great daydreamer when I was young
Eliza Madrigal: which we haven't brought to our realities before
Bruce Mowbray: focuses on Eliza, once again.
Zen Arado: I don't mean night time dreams
Zen Arado: I mean creating a version of reality we like
Eliza Madrigal: sorry... I just feel like, when in the context of SL, we're in intentional collective dreams of sorts
Zen Arado: or are living in the future which I do a lot
Eliza Madrigal: hm
Bruce Mowbray: no needs for "sorry" ---- for me, , your experience is a valuable baseline.
Zen Arado: everything will be great whenever
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)

(a few fixes)

Bruce Mowbray: love that Dragon!
Bruce Mowbray: sorry.
Zen Arado: it's all right for you to laugh Bruce :)

Eliza Madrigal: Okay... I nominate Bleu to fix it all for us.. then we agree to do whatever she says
Eliza Madrigal: lollol
Wol Euler smiles.
Zen Arado: I have a commitment to Dragon :)
Bleu Oleander: LOL now you're all in trouble
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Eliza Madrigal: it has worked with art things before...
Bruce Mowbray: GOOD! when I can no longer laughs at the absurdities of life, in world out world,,, whatever I am a goner, , for sure!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: yes art = reality hehe
Zen Arado: yes my sense of humour certainly lightens life for me
Bruce Mowbray: . Sometimes I even die laughing! . What a treat.
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: you've had a million lifetimes here Bruce

Bleu Oleander: so I think the conversation is valuable and we should continue it ... agree?
Bruce Mowbray: and you, too, dear Eliza . . . and more than that!
Bruce Mowbray: Yes. Yes, , please continue.
Bleu Oleander: perhaps gives new meaning to your session Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: yes agree very much... with this I think my own feelings are sort of out there... more exposed.... in that I think it is important to address some things
Zen Arado: I think these things sort themselves out
Eliza Madrigal: I'm also returning to a temple group that I had been attending but which fell apart for a while, this week

Zen Arado: if people find it valuable and enjoyable to come here they will

Eliza Madrigal: 'here' is us - what we bring
Zen Arado: yes
Bruce Mowbray: what we are.....
Zen Arado: no leader can control and force people to do things they don't want to do
Bleu Oleander: must get going ... thank you Eliza for nudging the conversation forward :)
Eliza Madrigal: not force but show
Zen Arado: or only for a short time

Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Bleu, for being here
Zen Arado: bye Bleu
Wol Euler: bye bleu, take care
Bleu Oleander: take care all and hope to see you soon :)

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: nice suit, Zen :)
Zen Arado: I better go too and stop forcing my ideas on people :-)
Eliza Madrigal: lol, not at all
Zen Arado: thank you Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: you are a helpful contrarian :P
Bruce Mowbray: I appreciate your ideas more than you will ever know, Zen!
Eliza Madrigal: nice to see you
Wol Euler smiles.
Zen Arado: I think that's good but I'm not sure :-)
Eliza Madrigal: me too... I take for granted you realize that when I argue with you Zen
Bruce Mowbray: always good to see you, always good to listen to you!
Wol Euler: goodnight zen
Bruce Mowbray: trust me: it is good!

Eliza Madrigal: I do think that PaB is different - I should have said that was my motivation...because it is
Eliza Madrigal: I could have pursued involvement in more buddhist-specific groups with the same love...

[actually, correcting myself here - no, the love developed itself. I could have invested in other groups to similar degree/commitment but it would not be "the same"]

Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: but I feel richer for having 'practiced' with people from many and no traditions
Bruce Mowbray: nods, identifies, and agrees.
Eliza Madrigal: and it has been, a practice
Eliza Madrigal: as much as anything else I might have done... tremendous challenge

Arisia Vita: reminds of a quote from A Charlie Brown Christmas, from wise Lucy...
Arisia Vita: Charlie Brown:

Actually, Lucy, my trouble is Christmas. I just don't understand it. Instead of feeling happy, I feel sort of let down.
Lucy Van Pelt: You need involvement. You'll need to get involved in some real Christmas project.

Eliza Madrigal: hehhhee
Eliza Madrigal: love that, Ari
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
Eliza Madrigal: maybe I'm feeling empty nesty
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: but also think PaB can't go on like this for another year
Eliza Madrigal: maybe I'm wrong
Eliza Madrigal: has happened before for sure
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: yes, , empty nesty - perhaps a downside of parenting. , but a necessary one, both for yourself and for the fledgeling's.
Eliza Madrigal: :) yes
Bruce Mowbray: :)

Bruce Mowbray: bury you, than I.
Eliza Madrigal: huge potential, if one looks at it that way
Bruce Mowbray: BETTER YOU! I don't!!!
Eliza Madrigal: cleaner house for sure
Bruce Mowbray: DARN this dragon!!!!!
Wol Euler: ha
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Arisia Vita: We knew what you meant Bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: BETTER YOU THAN I!

Eliza Madrigal: I have dragon but am afraid to use it because already I'm hard to understand
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: I'm about to give up on it.
Eliza Madrigal: really? I think it isn't so bad
Bruce Mowbray: . My typos are better than its incorrect interpretation of my voice . . .
Bruce Mowbray: . I guess it's my typist's voice, , then, that is the source of the problem.
Eliza Madrigal: you might be particularly annoyed due to your facility and exactness with language
Bruce Mowbray: perhaps so. . Another worthy and valid observation, dear Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: doesn't bother me for people to be correcting though
Bruce Mowbray: it's the English teacher in my typist . . . that dude from long ago who simply will not let go.
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Bruce Mowbray: )))
Bruce Mowbray: a bit of compulsiveness, or would that be obsession?
Eliza Madrigal: I wanted to be an English teacher for quite some time... imagine the confused students!
Bruce Mowbray: every word must be spelled correctly.... . What a drag.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler smiles.

Eliza Madrigal: we do know one another quite well around here
Wol Euler: we read generously and flexibly
Eliza Madrigal: if I see someone type "teh" I think it is 'a Wol'
Bruce Mowbray: yes, we do, and it is wonderful. . It is a treasure.
Wol Euler: as indeed we listen to spoken words
Bruce Mowbray: the teh of Wol!
Eliza Madrigal: Wol peeking into the conversation :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Bruce Mowbray: nods.
Bruce Mowbray: laughs, and it feels so good.

Wol Euler: verbal speech contains few typos, but constant ums and ahs and changes of direciton
Wol Euler: people start a sentence, abandon it and start again
Wol Euler: nobody worries
Eliza Madrigal: and "so" - which seems to be the "um" of this generation
Bruce Mowbray: or, maybe "like".....
Eliza Madrigal: at least in academia.. everyone is starting everything with "so"
Arisia Vita: and "you know" :)
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: but if not, someone jumps in
Bruce Mowbray: Or maybe, "and he goes...."
Arisia Vita: I always want to say, no I don't know, yet
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Wol Euler smiles.
Bruce Mowbray: Meaning, and then he says.....
Eliza Madrigal: well, "lol" is the same really
Bruce Mowbray: lol, it is -- FOR SURE!
Eliza Madrigal: I didn't do that for a long time then talked to someone a lot who did it and voila
Wol Euler: it#s contagious
Arisia Vita: then I must be immune, so far :)
Wol Euler: lucky :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: it can be a way of blending in maybe
Eliza Madrigal: which even in contexts like this, we seem to desire
Eliza Madrigal: even if we don't want to
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: :) anyway... time to cook for my gaming son and his friend.... I apologize if I didn't listen enough today... so much to process
Wol Euler smiles.

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: kk, dear Eliza. you are a treasure.
Wol Euler: seconded
Arisia Vita: thirded
Eliza Madrigal: thanks... blessings from 3 treasures, how lucky am I :)
Wol Euler: big hugs to you, dear eliza
Bruce Mowbray: and you as well, Wol. and you as well! Good Ari.,
Wol Euler: goodnight all, stay happy
Eliza Madrigal: hugs, appreciation, bfn
Bruce Mowbray: Goog night.
Arisia Vita: be well and happy
Bruce Mowbray: Good*
Bruce Mowbray: DARN the Dragon!
Wol Euler laughs.