2015.01.26 13:00 - Choices and crafty plans

The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.

Catrinamonblue Resident: tiring few weeks.
Aphrodite Macbain: Oh dear
Aphrodite Macbain: Too busy?
Catrinamonblue Resident: just a combination of things, it'll all work itself out with time
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain smiles
Catrinamonblue Resident: how are you doing?
Aphrodite Macbain: I hope you will have time to write a poem
Catrinamonblue Resident: I have been working a bit on a poem.. it's slowly working its way out too
Aphrodite Macbain: great.
Aphrodite Macbain: Has it the theme of seven?
Catrinamonblue Resident: not yet, working on it :)
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: I hope we get a good turn-out.
Aphrodite Macbain: We need some creative glue to hold us together
Catrinamonblue Resident: it's hard when rl gets so very busy.
Aphrodite Macbain: Have you taken on more work?
Catrinamonblue Resident: every time I think things may slow down something else pops up to take my attention
Catrinamonblue Resident: not taken on more work, just one place is stretching my abilities :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: learning new things
Aphrodite Macbain: I hope you get a chance to do things you enjoy
Aphrodite Macbain: It can sustain you.
Catrinamonblue Resident: I do try to work it into my sched. :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm a little crazy busy too: teaching and learning, learning Italian, painting
Aphrodite Macbain: I think I bit off more than I can chew!
Catrinamonblue Resident: :) it's good to keep a bit busy
Catrinamonblue Resident: but not too much :)
Aphrodite Macbain: right
Aphrodite Macbain: You've been having crazy weather too, no? Lots of cold
Catrinamonblue Resident: we had a very mild December so it feels crazy now but I think this is pretty normal for January :)
Aphrodite Macbain: It's bizarre out here-blue skies, warm weather...feels like spring normally does
Catrinamonblue Resident: :) nice
Aphrodite Macbain: It's very peaceful and quiet here at the pavilion right now. Even the regulars haven't turned up. Nice that you made it.
Catrinamonblue Resident: just a lucky break today, I don't normally have time to come
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: Someone cancelled?
Catrinamonblue Resident: no just finished early
Catrinamonblue Resident: and I'm home with the boy's today not hanging out at the pub ;)
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: Laughs
Aphrodite Macbain: Is there a good pub nearby?
Catrinamonblue Resident: near where my bf lives yes there is a nice one
Catrinamonblue Resident: he's a regular there, when he walks in the bartender pours a beer without him even asking :)
Aphrodite Macbain: cool
Aphrodite Macbain: like "Friends"
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods :) yes
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes :) it's very cool and there are a bunch of regular guys that hang out there too :)
Aphrodite Macbain: When I lived in Newfoundland I spent a lot of time in pubs
Catrinamonblue Resident: smiles
Aphrodite Macbain: drinking beer, playing cards, darts
Aphrodite Macbain: smoking :(
Catrinamonblue Resident: it's fun :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: no smoking allowed now :) not inside anyways
Aphrodite Macbain: and three were many musicians who sang
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: A sort of home from home
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm glad you have that Cat. :-)
Catrinamonblue Resident: thank you :) it's been interesting fun to try on a whole new life
 

How we make decisions

Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder, maybe we can talk about the theme I suggested for today
Catrinamonblue Resident: sure :)
Aphrodite Macbain: How do we make decisions?
Aphrodite Macbain: Are we in control of our own decisions?
Aphrodite Macbain: When are we subtly being coerced?
Aphrodite Macbain: Do we have the ability to always make the right decisions?
Catrinamonblue Resident: as much as people try to be logical about decisions I feel that in the end they are based on emotion, not necessarily controlled, and most definitely not always right.
Aphrodite Macbain: I saw a great TED talk on the subject.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- emotions can really skew things...
ShinjuJin Resident: sorry to land on you, Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: Classic TED Talk

Aphrodite Macbain: NP!
Catrinamonblue Resident: hello Shinju :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Welcome
ShinjuJin Resident: Hello :) thanks
Aphrodite Macbain: Glad you could make it
ShinjuJin Resident: me too!

Aphrodite Macbain: We were just beginning to discuss how much we are really in control of making correct decisions: how much we are manipulated; how much is distorted by fear, anger, love, laziness etc
ShinjuJin Resident: ok, I've seen the video you referenced, a few times
Aphrodite Macbain sits silently
Catrinamonblue Resident: can you post the link? what you posted earlier didn't work for me
Aphrodite Macbain: http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_...on__2015-01-24

Catrinamonblue Resident: thanks :)
Aphrodite Macbain: sorry it's so long :-)
ShinjuJin Resident: I think control is too strong a word but I think we do have influence on our decisions, as do other factors, and that they are made at deeper levels than we think
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
ShinjuJin Resident: if we slow down we can see what is happening more
Aphrodite Macbain: This guy claims that often our decisions are made when they are simple to make.
ShinjuJin Resident: made for us?
Aphrodite Macbain: we prefer to take the route of simplicity, even when it is not the best solution
ShinjuJin Resident: makes sense
Aphrodite Macbain: He articulates this better than I do
ShinjuJin Resident: if we can't fully comprehend the full process after making a decision, how could we have confidence to implement it or deal with the consequences?
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: But we are asked to make important, life changing decisions so frequently, dont we?
ShinjuJin Resident: not sure if that frequently. Decisions come in packages
Aphrodite Macbain: I often go with the "gut" feeling
Aphrodite Macbain: rather than logically analyzing each possible choice
ShinjuJin Resident: you decide one thing and lots of other things come with it and play out over time
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: I think that's why people have lawyers :D
ShinjuJin Resident smiles
Aphrodite Macbain: or change management consultants
ShinjuJin Resident: I've often thought it might be liberating to have someone step into my life for 3 months and tell me exactly what to do all day someone smarter than myself obviously :P
Aphrodite Macbain: It becomes too challenging to spend the time exploring each possible option. That's what parents and teachers used to do!
Aphrodite Macbain: who do you go to for advice?
ShinjuJin Resident: not my parents :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: I don't think there is any way to know all possible outcomes of a choice, sometimes you just have to leap and see what happens
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
ShinjuJin Resident: agree, leap, but there is something that gives the leap bounce? some gut/instinct?
Catrinamonblue Resident: and sometimes people get hurt by it, and sometimes not
Aphrodite Macbain: for me, I think it's part laziness part ignorance
ShinjuJin Resident: fear
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm prone to gut instinct ...
ShinjuJin Resident: pride
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: emotions...
Catrinamonblue Resident: for me I guess I tend more to just roll with what comes along...
Aphrodite Macbain: I think the gut feeling might have something to do with recognizing the feeling one has when one faces a difficult decision
Catrinamonblue Resident: see where it takes me
ShinjuJin Resident: it is within range of considered possibilities usually though?
ShinjuJin Resident: prep meeting destiny, or sense of such
Aphrodite Macbain: prep?
ShinjuJin Resident: preparation, some basis
ShinjuJin Resident: room made, stage set
Aphrodite Macbain: ah. A deliberate planning
Aphrodite Macbain: thinking of the future
ShinjuJin Resident: sort of, maybe subconscious at times
Catrinamonblue Resident: I'm thinking back at how I make choices and really I don't think I really have a way of doing it, things just seem to come up when needed,
Aphrodite Macbain: I think a lot of decisions are made subconsciously don't you?
ShinjuJin Resident: yes
Catrinamonblue Resident: big yes for me
Aphrodite Macbain: It "feels" right

Aphrodite Macbain: which could lead us into making bad decisions
ShinjuJin Resident: and maybe resources are seen that way, like "I'll remember where that is"
Aphrodite Macbain: say more about resources Shin?
ShinjuJin Resident: I was thinking about "things just seem to come up when needed" - that it seems to me that we 'see' more subconsciously than we 'think' we do, therefore there is more being prepped for and remembered than we think... resources available

Aphrodite Macbain: Interesting distinction between seeing and thinking Shin
Catrinamonblue Resident: is there really such a thing as a bad decision though.... things that may look like a bad choice at one time may in fact be the perfect thing later on.....
ShinjuJin Resident: true also, but I do think there are decisions that make things easier or harder over time
Catrinamonblue Resident: I agree Shin :) on both things
ShinjuJin Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I suppose we can rationalize most things, but yes, I have made many "bad" decisions that have negatively affected me in the future
ShinjuJin Resident: one thing that meditative practice seems to help with, is slowing down enough to feel whether one might be reacting too fast, or acting out of a sense of crisis
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes!
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Sitting quietly for a while makes us aware of things we ignore in the busyness of living
ShinjuJin Resident nods
ShinjuJin Resident: many of my 'bad' decisions, I felt pressured into...
ShinjuJin Resident: as though I had no time
Aphrodite Macbain: yes....
ShinjuJin Resident: time to consider different routes and possibilities, or to strongly decide to take a risk
Aphrodite Macbain: I suppose that ideally we should be aware of the risks we take and then consciously decide whether or not to take them
ShinjuJin Resident: nods, or live close to clear intuition
ShinjuJin Resident: the first part of sitting quietly is usually just letting reactiveness and fear subside (for me) then there is a deeper intuitive level... perhaps down to wu wei
ShinjuJin Resident: easier to trust that level
Aphrodite Macbain: part of me feels "I don't want to go there" and avoids thinking a decision through
ShinjuJin Resident: relate :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: whew
Aphrodite Macbain: glad to know I'm not the only one :-)
ShinjuJin Resident: if you were the only one, the world would be quite different right? lol orderly or something...
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: grins, I guess
Aphrodite Macbain: I find I use my friends a lot when I'm faced with a difficult decision; they help raise problems I haven't thought about
ShinjuJin Resident: I stay in the "gathering information" stages too long:
ShinjuJin Resident: do you take advice, or just consider what they bring up?
Aphrodite Macbain: but then I usually do what I wanted to do in the first place
ShinjuJin Resident: :))
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
ShinjuJin Resident laughing... yeah, that seems how it is, that we've already decided before we think we have
Aphrodite Macbain: sometimes they support my decision and then I'm really happy
Aphrodite Macbain: The decisions I don't know answers to, I often postpone making
Catrinamonblue Resident: that works too
Catrinamonblue Resident: allow the universe to work on it
Aphrodite Macbain: and sometimes a decision just appears out of nowhere,,....
ShinjuJin Resident: when able.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
ShinjuJin Resident: "set it and forget it" heheh
Aphrodite Macbain: It sits marinating and bubbling on the back burner
ShinjuJin Resident has a lot of backburners
Catrinamonblue Resident: lol
ShinjuJin Resident giggles
ShinjuJin Resident: Once I had the intuition that "there is a time to choose and a time to enter into the choice you've made"
Aphrodite Macbain: sometimes it burns to a crisp
ShinjuJin Resident laughs
Aphrodite Macbain: bad timer
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
ShinjuJin Resident: absent minded chef
Aphrodite Macbain: that too lol
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
ShinjuJin Resident: with too many things cooking and trying to read emails and clean carpets and pet cat...
 

Regrets, I've had a few...

Aphrodite Macbain: Are there any decisions you wish you hadn't made?
Aphrodite Macbain whispers Hi Zen
ShinjuJin Resident: Hi Zen!
Zen Arado: Hi cat, Aph, Shin
Aphrodite Macbain: we are talking about how we make decisions

Catrinamonblue Resident: What an excellent question Aph...... for myself no I don't regret any of the choices I have made in my life, they have brought me to where I am and I really am enjoying life right now, even with its downs and ups
ShinjuJin Resident: such a good question
ShinjuJin Resident: I don't regret exactly, but can think back to times where "if I'd only known...." I might have been less sad, or fearful, and might have let things unfold more smoothly
Zen Arado: je ne regrette rien
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
ShinjuJin Resident: like, when I was a teenager and I really only saw the world inside my house as my resource base
Aphrodite Macbain: I regret certain things; mainly about being too fearful to have taken a risk
ShinjuJin Resident: hmmm
Catrinamonblue Resident: leap :)
Zen Arado: but fear is healthy
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Zen Arado: maybe you were right not to take the risk
Aphrodite Macbain: when are we too fearful?
ShinjuJin Resident: but if you leap wrongly you break an ankle and have to stop for a while :)) unless prince comes along
Aphrodite Macbain: on a white charger :-)
Zen Arado: we don't know
ShinjuJin Resident: haha
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Zen Arado: we just play it by ear and hope for the best

Aphrodite Macbain: It does require us to develop a good ear though Zen
ShinjuJin Resident: it is hard once you get to a certain point in life, not to feel "I should have ___" whether it is to plan better or take more risks
Zen Arado: actually as I have aged I realize how chaotic and irrational the world really is. I also wish I had taken more risks
Aphrodite Macbain: what would you have done differently Zen?
ShinjuJin Resident: life's absurdity
Zen Arado: I thought if I do A then B will happen
Zen Arado: but not necessarily
ShinjuJin Resident nods
Zen Arado: oh I don't know Aph
Zen Arado: not going to worry about it
Catrinamonblue Resident: c avalanches into d ;)
ShinjuJin Resident: :)
ShinjuJin Resident: it is sort of truer though (hah how is that for noncommittal of what I am about to say )... : that if one situates themselves in some A place/setting, they are more likely to experience B within a trajectory
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: ummm
Zen Arado: you sound a bit like Eliza Shin
ShinjuJin Resident: so we can't control everything, but we can try to be in "the realm of such & such"
Zen Arado: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: could you say that in another way Shin :)?
ShinjuJin Resident smiles
ShinjuJin Resident: I may just have rephrased?
Aphrodite Macbain: that trajectory
Aphrodite Macbain: what is that?
Zen Arado: play the odds?
ShinjuJin Resident: it is a projected path
ShinjuJin Resident: may or may not happen because many factors in between
Aphrodite Macbain: ah - the consequences of our actions?
Zen Arado: like a shrewd operator
Zen Arado: never liked that kind of thinking somehow
ShinjuJin Resident: well, if conditions are just right, we get to see fulfillment ourselves, or at least be part of a bigger fulfillment
Aphrodite Macbain: what kind of thinking Zen?
Zen Arado: like being a shrewd operator playing the odds
Aphrodite Macbain: you would prefer to take things as they come Zen?
Zen Arado: like if you want to pick up women go where they congregate
Zen Arado: etc
Zen Arado: I don't know
Aphrodite Macbain: strategic planning :-)
Zen Arado: just saying how it struck me
ShinjuJin Resident: I think of shrewd as being more fixed/less flexible
Zen Arado: like living a life full of crafty plans
Zen Arado: outwitting people
ShinjuJin Resident: I would call that opportunist
Zen Arado: a kind of JR person :) they outsmart themselves usually
Aphrodite Macbain: There is the tried and true method: make lists of all things Pro, and all things Contra but I end up trying to convince myself one way or another by listing more on the pro or contra side
Catrinamonblue Resident: for some reason that has never worked for me, I find it frustrating
Zen Arado: cos life doesn't always co-operate
Aphrodite Macbain: darn life
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Zen Arado: heheh
ShinjuJin Resident: we tend to stack the deck
Zen Arado: great for film and TV series plots though
Zen Arado: :)
ShinjuJin Resident: to make the results appear as we secretly want them to, in a pro/con
Aphrodite Macbain: At least we have choices. Some people don't have the luxury of choice
Zen Arado: goes back to Shylock the Jew I guess
Aphrodite Macbain: How so Zen?
Zen Arado: well wasn't he a kind of JR manipulator?
Zen Arado: lots of that type get rich
Aphrodite Macbain: I hadn't thought of him that way, but he did want his pound of flesh
ShinjuJin Resident: complex character
Aphrodite Macbain: he lacked the quality of mercy
Aphrodite Macbain: which muddled his scales
ShinjuJin Resident: I have to make dinner...full house tonight. Nice to be here, thanks Aph and Cat, and Zen (gtsy after so long!)
Zen Arado: byee Shin
Zen Arado: :)
ShinjuJin Resident waves
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks for coming
 

Poetry and music

Aphrodite Macbain: Zen, are you willing to write or submit a poem for our 7th anniversary birthday bash?
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Zen Arado: I could submit a spiritual one I guess
Zen Arado: I stopped writing
Aphrodite Macbain: that would be really nice Zen if you could. You could always use an earlier poem
Zen Arado: sure
Aphrodite Macbain: wonderful!!! : Use the theme of 7 if you like but not necessary
Catrinamonblue Resident: why did you stop writing Zen? (just wondering because I haven't been writing for a while)
Zen Arado: more into music composing atm
Catrinamonblue Resident: ah :)
Zen Arado: can't do everything
Aphrodite Macbain: maybe you could read it to music!
Zen Arado: stopped painting too
Catrinamonblue Resident: true :)
Zen Arado: need another 2 of me
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm sorry Zen
Zen Arado: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: laughs yes me too :) too many things to do :)
Zen Arado: or 3 times more energy
Aphrodite Macbain: Well, a poem would be really nice
Aphrodite Macbain: make it haiku :-) Trouble is haiku poems can take longer to write than long ones
Zen Arado: I have a book of Steve Taylor poems
Zen Arado: some are really good I think
Aphrodite Macbain: OK Steve Taylor would be fine
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks!
Zen Arado: I didn't know how hard it is to write poetry until I did creative writing course
Aphrodite Macbain: he he
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: all those rules!
Zen Arado: she kinda killed my enthusiasm
Zen Arado: the tutor
Zen Arado: yes
Catrinamonblue Resident: oh dear :(
Aphrodite Macbain: sometimes dissecting something takes the life out of it
Zen Arado: I was happy with my amateurish efforts until then :)
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
Zen Arado: she majored in poetry
Aphrodite Macbain: I know the feeling. I get that way about my botanical painting
Zen Arado: her specialty
Zen Arado: maybe made her extra critical
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods, perhaps
Aphrodite Macbain: The thing is to do it for YOURSELF not others
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: one day I will get back to it
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Zen Arado: I would love to write songs
Catrinamonblue Resident: cool :)
Zen Arado: quite similar
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Zen Arado: rhymes more important
Zen Arado: rhythm I mean
Zen Arado: or both
Zen Arado: hmm
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: :-) I hope you do Zen ..... I'd love to hear them.

I should get some lunch.
Catrinamonblue Resident: :) time to make dinner here :)
Zen Arado: kk byee
Aphrodite Macbain: Hugs to you both
Zen Arado: nothing for me--too late :(
Catrinamonblue Resident: bye :)