The Guardian for this meeting was Riddle Sideways.  Who came by, saw noBody claim this, so took it.  The comments are by Riddle Sideways.

Riddle Sideways: hello
Mickorod Renard: :)
Riddle Sideways: got anything to chat about?
Mickorod Renard: not realy, was just passing as I was to meet Arabella here
Riddle Sideways: got nothing either
Mickorod Renard: he he
Riddle Sideways: was having problems getting to my session
Riddle Sideways: so thought a test was in order
Mickorod Renard: I have been so busy that I havnt had time to come lately
Mickorod Renard: thats a good idea

Riddle Sideways: Adams started to have a great chat this morning
Mickorod Renard: yes?
Riddle Sideways: then business phoned
Mickorod Renard: ohh noo
Mickorod Renard: what was that about? if I may ask
Mickorod Renard: I miss a good chat
                   --BELL--

Riddle Sideways: Adams introduced the bad new term learned "Rolling Coal"
Riddle Sideways: which lead to why do bad people hate?
Mickorod Renard: mmmm i have never heard of that
Mickorod Renard: I see
Riddle Sideways: best suggestion would be not to look it up
Mickorod Renard: yes...I sometimes have pangs of hate I think...although I try and subdue them with some philosophical thought
Riddle Sideways: one article labeled them "dickheads"
Mickorod Renard: he he
Riddle Sideways: that purposely modify their diesel engines to spew out polution
Riddle Sideways: on demand
Riddle Sideways: usually pointed at Prius car drivers and bicycles
Mickorod Renard: mmm yeh
Mickorod Renard: I think I would have to start at the beginning I think
Mickorod Renard: I wonder why trolls exist..if thats the sort of hate person you may refer to?
Riddle Sideways: yes
Mickorod Renard: I tend to hate myself mostly
Riddle Sideways: granted that not evenybody is in the same political party
Riddle Sideways: but being spiteful to do malise
Riddle Sideways: hard to understand
Mickorod Renard: I think position of comfort sometimes changes folks opinions
Mickorod Renard: but yes, spiteful is something I hate..he he
Mickorod Renard: I would love to be a well aligned person though..i strive for being a better person but its hard
Riddle Sideways: you do a good job at it
Riddle Sideways: from the emails

Mickorod Renard: I dont know..and I question too much of myself too..like for eg..am I sincere or just using pretence to gain love
Riddle Sideways: oooo tough question
Mickorod Renard: grin
Riddle Sideways: doubting that you are the person others are thinking they see
Riddle Sideways: or those "nobody would love me, if they knew the real me" complex
Mickorod Renard: yes, and or maybe all
Mickorod Renard: Hi ara
arabella Ella: Hallo!
Riddle Sideways: Hi
Mickorod Renard: we were just having an interesting chat
arabella Ella: sorry if I am disturbing you!
arabella Ella: did not mean to disturb
Mickorod Renard: no not at all
Riddle Sideways: not disturbing
Mickorod Renard: you being a philosopher would enjoy
Mickorod Renard: I think
arabella Ella smiles
arabella Ella: depends on topic I suppose

Mickorod Renard: It started in a roundabouts way discussing troll like hate people
Riddle Sideways: somewhere along the lines of what makes people bad
arabella Ella: yes not an easy topic
Riddle Sideways: hating others so much they do bad things
                   --BELL--
Riddle Sideways: from people that write virus software to hurt everybody
Mickorod Renard: and then I wondered whether i still may be bad because I doubt my sincerity and wonder whether my pretence of being good is just a way to gain love
arabella Ella: can you understand the psyche of bad people (as in malicious or destructful) cos I cannot?
Riddle Sideways: to hate crimes just because of the a skin color, gender, smile or shoe size
Riddle Sideways: can not understand
Mickorod Renard: but most people would like to gain from something..and what differs is at what cost to get gain from
Riddle Sideways: first it is hard to understand some gains
arabella Ella: but Mike what motivates bad people? is it personal gain? Why be malicious? Why say evil stuff about 'the other'?
arabella Ella: *Mick
Riddle Sideways: yes, Why?
arabella Ella: Why do some people take up people smuggling and put hundreds if not thousands of others at risk of life?
Mickorod Renard: perhaps its an expression of the dislike they have of themselves for not attaining what others have
arabella Ella: jealousy?
arabella Ella: envy?
Mickorod Renard: maybe
Mickorod Renard: but the people smugglers are just business people
arabella Ella: surely more than just business people - they have no scruples about other human lives
Mickorod Renard: there is gain to be had
Riddle Sideways: so, maybe the pursuit of money is one evil
arabella Ella: yes Riddle
arabella Ella: maybe they are all sick in the head?
arabella Ella: (too simplistic!)
Mickorod Renard: I think it would be shocking to discover the percentage of people that would persue at great cost to others
Riddle Sideways: and Religious fuvor over kill all the "______s"
arabella Ella: Mick you said maybe sometimes you consider yourself to be 'bad' what motivates you personally to be 'bad'?
Mickorod Renard: I am not sure about religious,,I think its cultural
arabella Ella: About religion - I think religion has always been manipulated in this way by extremests and fundamentalists

Mickorod Renard: I would like to think I curb any bad action..but I am concious of bad thoughts
arabella Ella giggles
arabella Ella imagines what Mick's bad thoughts may be
Riddle Sideways: giggles
Mickorod Renard: yeh,,some bad thoughts i enjoy
Mickorod Renard: he he
arabella Ella: funny Mickorod
Riddle Sideways: bad thoughts maybe, as long as they stay thoughts
arabella Ella nods
Riddle Sideways: bad actions taken on them is different
arabella Ella: but for example what would motivate someone to go out and sporadically assissinate about say twenty people and then kill himself or herself?
Mickorod Renard: so is a bad person just diferent cos they cant control action from just thought?
Riddle Sideways: maybe, mick
Mickorod Renard: thats complex to answer Ara,,cos there can be many reasons
arabella Ella: to control action - willpower?
Riddle Sideways: ara, can not really think that through
Riddle Sideways: what mental state is that
Mickorod Renard: yes, that resistance to temptation is central I think
arabella Ella: do you really think many so called bad people commit bad actions because they are not capable of controlling themselves?

Mickorod Renard: some are comanded to kill at the threat of death to their loved ones
Riddle Sideways: yet can control enough to take very steady aim with a rifle
arabella Ella: some do so for money and thrills - mercenaries for example
Riddle Sideways: by the voices in their heads?
Riddle Sideways: the Devil made me do it
Mickorod Renard: well this is just it though,,many reasons

arabella Ella: some are very controlled and calculating like the guy in Norway
Mickorod Renard: yes, he would make a good business man
arabella Ella: ??
Mickorod Renard: how do we say,,psychopath
Mickorod Renard: or do they say sociopath nowadays
Riddle Sideways: not sure which
Mickorod Renard: its a great trait to have if you want to be succesful
                   --BELL--
Mickorod Renard: but equally a bad trait if you have other ideas
arabella Ella: only if you wish to be successful in a sicko sort of culture

Mickorod Renard: well according to some papers on the subject and tv programs,,the percentage with that condition is high and especially so in positions of power
Riddle Sideways: and Power Corrupts
Mickorod Renard: yep
arabella Ella: yes no one who can exert power in high places remains innocent or naive for very long
arabella Ella whispers - in this part of the world at least
Mickorod Renard: 1 percent of the population are psychopaths
arabella Ella: Are you sure Mick? Because if that is the case then this is a very sad world
Mickorod Renard: yes, according to stats
arabella Ella: and it also means I must know quite a few psychopaths
Mickorod Renard: 25% of male offeders are too
arabella Ella: without realising it
arabella Ella: maybe we need more females in 'high places'?
Mickorod Renard: I bet the ones you know are succesful business men or women
arabella Ella: not really
Riddle Sideways: in a city of 1 milllion that would be 10,000

             Just recognized something about that 1% and 99% of the people.  
             Isn't that also the ratio of Haves to Have-nots?

arabella Ella: and most i probably cannot recognise
Mickorod Renard: I mean,,....they are likely to use their ruthlesness to good cause
Mickorod Renard: good personal cause
arabella Ella: i doubt the statistic is so high but that could be because I have faith in other people and their potential for goodness
Mickorod Renard: people get resentful for all sorts of reasons and that can manifest itself in all diferent ways
Mickorod Renard: but....if one was to program a ai ..what trait would it have?
arabella Ella: perhaps some also feel others are threatening when they are not - and if someone is feeling threatened (rationally or not) it may give rise to 'bad actions'?
Mickorod Renard: for sure
arabella Ella: ok how would we program an AI?
Riddle Sideways: oh dear, even Wikipedia (fav source) states 1% of population
arabella Ella: would we stick to Asimov's rules?
Mickorod Renard: yes, how ruthless would it be?
arabella Ella: that's very high percentage Riddle I am shocked
Mickorod Renard: it is high when you do the numbers
Riddle Sideways: what jollies does a SL griefer get to become one?
arabella Ella: I think we should consider AI to be a tool / assistant / support for humans
arabella Ella: good question Riddle
arabella Ella: thrills?
arabella Ella: challenge?
arabella Ella: like stealing when you dont really need what you steal but do it for the thrill?
Mickorod Renard: many hackers do it for the challenge
arabella Ella: boredom?
arabella Ella: lack of challenge in daily life?
Riddle Sideways: is there such a thing?
Mickorod Renard: challenge /thrill
Riddle Sideways: a lack of life chaallenges?
arabella Ella: for some yes i guess
                   --BELL--
arabella Ella: maybe those for whom life is a daily monotonous routine - like cogs in a wheel
Mickorod Renard: there is always a challenge,,but mabe a lack of identifying one with sufficient interest or buzz
Mickorod Renard: trouble i find is when thinking about it i am delving into my own psychy

Riddle Sideways: This "Rolling Coal" thing takes lots of forthought, prep, money, altering a car engine then cruising to find a do-gooder to victomize
Riddle Sideways: maybe that is the challenge
arabella Ella: what is Rolling Coal?
Mickorod Renard: have you heard of rolling coal Ara?
Mickorod Renard: sorry
arabella Ella: no i have not
Riddle Sideways: a newest bad think
Riddle Sideways: by Dickheads
arabella Ella: go on ...
Riddle Sideways: what the article called them :}
arabella Ella: or should I ask Wikipedia?
Riddle Sideways: yes
arabella Ella smiles
Riddle Sideways: better than asking youTube :)
arabella Ella: Rolling coal is a form of conspicuous pollution.
arabella Ella: pollution?
arabella Ella: Rolling coal is the practice of intentionally disabling the Clean Burn Programming of a computer controlled diesel engine, so that the vehicle can emit an under-aspirated sooty exhaust that visibly pollutes the air. Practitioners tamper with their vehicles' emissions controls in open defiance of environmental regulations. It also may include the intentional removal of the particulate filter[1] Practitioners often additionally modify their vehicles by installing smoke switches and smoke stacks.
arabella Ella: quoted from Wikipedia
Mickorod Renard: interesting explanation
arabella Ella: is that it?
Riddle Sideways: why do that?
Mickorod Renard: cool, sounds fun
Mickorod Renard: he he
arabella Ella: you cannot do that here
arabella Ella: or in the UK
arabella Ella: I doubt whether you can do it in Europe
arabella Ella: but ... is that it?

Riddle Sideways: is there the thought in their head that unburned diesel fuel is ok for the environment
Mickorod Renard: I have a noisy exhaust on my motorcycle.......thats a bit like anti quiet
arabella Ella: it is the particles that get into other peoples lungs and cause stuff like allergies and ashma
Mickorod Renard: you know what.......I often watch the cars go by...what i see is that the ones with money drive the most ridiculously fuel extravagant cars without any concern for their fellow humans
Riddle Sideways: yep
Mickorod Renard: there are those who openly do it and those who pretend they arnt but do

arabella Ella: Riddle you had said this, what do you mean by do-gooders and how do they get into the picture? quote altering a car engine then cruising to find a do-gooder to victomize unquote
Mickorod Renard: I think riddle means,,when you come across an electric car driver you flick the switch and dump loads of carbon in their face
Riddle Sideways: one article spoke of them cruising around to find Prius drivers to annoy
arabella Ella: owwww that is so mean!
Mickorod Renard: carbon fro their malicious modified cars
Riddle Sideways: profiling a group that would be upset by pollution
Riddle Sideways: then gas em
arabella Ella: ouch!!!
Mickorod Renard: a prious is an electric hybrid honda
arabella Ella: sounds very Nazi
Riddle Sideways: well, Toyota
arabella Ella: yes Mick I know Prius
Mickorod Renard: sorry
                   --BELL--
arabella Ella smiles
Riddle Sideways: which is what started this thinking
arabella Ella: ok
Riddle Sideways: Adams mentioned it
arabella Ella: oh
Mickorod Renard: so the question was,,what makes someone buy into doing obviously malicious acts of bad
arabella Ella nods
Riddle Sideways: yep
Riddle Sideways: can not understand it

arabella Ella: feels like trying to kill a cockroach with spray ... so painful ... why kill ... why harm others?
Mickorod Renard: its like people throwing their waste out their car windows too...or dropping gum on the floor

         OK, OK, OK  THAT is the worse.  Most of us have stepped on gum on floor!!!!!
              Why! oh Why!

Mickorod Renard: no reason for it
Mickorod Renard: dickheads
Mickorod Renard: he he
Riddle Sideways: giggles

arabella Ella: shhhhhh
Riddle Sideways: the Bell is upset and will pollute us
Mickorod Renard: we could sabatarge the bell
Riddle Sideways: the Bell is not even an AI

arabella Ella: could education play a role here?
arabella Ella: does education affect malicious behaviour?
arabella Ella: or lack of education?
Riddle Sideways: The bell's or mine?
Riddle Sideways: oooooooooooooo all 3

Mickorod Renard: I think it could, it could margianalize capable people due to their inability to proove their worth due to the lack of a piece of paper
Mickorod Renard: prove*
Riddle Sideways: thatz good
Mickorod Renard: grin

Mickorod Renard: I like being a devils advocate
Riddle Sideways: the pay is good
Riddle Sideways: ?
arabella Ella: what i mean is that education gets people to form certain habits due to the awareness (sometimes - not always) that if everyone were to commit 'bad' actions we would be living in a very sad life
Mickorod Renard: ggod perks no pay
            excuse please, but that is the best typo of all time  "gee G-d perks"
Mickorod Renard: I think thats mainly correct Ara..but there will always be those who use their 'education' for exploitation
arabella Ella: was it Hobbes who said that in a state of nature life is nasty, brutish and short?

arabella Ella: and Mick it is not their education they use for exploitation if I get you right, it is the certificates they obtain as a result of their education - the education itself is meant to install habits of thought and habits of action and to regulate behaviour - besides other things of course :)
Mickorod Renard: i stand corrected,,grin
arabella Ella winks

Mickorod Renard: ok,,on that note I have to get some kip
Riddle Sideways: kip?
arabella Ella offers Micko a job as devil's advocate with pay AND perks :)
arabella Ella: I must go too good night Riddle and Micko!
Mickorod Renard: sleep Riddle...its late in europe
Riddle Sideways: k
Riddle Sideways: bye and thanks
Mickorod Renard: nice seeing you Riddle,,nice chat
Riddle Sideways: by
arabella Ella: yes lots of food for thought :)
arabella Ella: byeeeeee