2015.05.17 07:00 - Sharing

The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
Bleu Oleander: hi Adams :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Eos :)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Bleu, Adams
Adams Rubble: Hello bleu and Eos :)
Eos Amaterasu: Wanted to take a quick look at this new pavilion - thank you for this, Bleu!
Bleu Oleander: yw!
Adams Rubble: very nice but I had a bit of trouble clicking to claim the log
Bleu Oleander: hmmm I thought I had adjusted it ok
Bleu Oleander: if you click on the lotus flower?
Eos Amaterasu: I just clicked there - np
Adams Rubble: ohh, I see
Bleu Oleander: tricky with all the transparency
Adams Rubble: I am having a few technical problems -- new computer
Bleu Oleander: ah ok
Adams Rubble: tried to turn on my chat recording just in case and I can't find the place to do it
Adams Rubble: well, I can do that later
Adams Rubble: good morning both of you :)
Bleu Oleander: and to you :)
Adams Rubble: I do not have any thoughts this morning. Still working on my transitioning
Bleu Oleander: is that a lengthy process?
Adams Rubble: for me it is :)
Adams Rubble: anyone any thoughts about anything?
Eos Amaterasu: just a sec :-)
Bleu Oleander: we had a salon the other night about "sharing" ... might be interesting to discuss?
Adams Rubble listens
Eos Amaterasu listens
Bleu Oleander: presenter gave some results of studies they have done on "need based" sharing and accounting based
Bleu Oleander: and it seems that sharing was and is a necessary component to our societies
--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: varied somewhat in different cultures
Bleu Oleander: and with population/group size
Bleu Oleander: seemed trust was involved :)
Bleu Oleander: I gave this link the other day, but think its very interesting ... http://www.humangenerosity.org/
Bleu Oleander: and worth looking at :)
Bleu Oleander: btw, they are partnering with someone at Rutgers :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: well, lots to talk about there
Bleu Oleander: "We have found that systems of sharing based on the need of the recipient (need-based transfer systems) can enhance survival and lead to risk mitigation for the entire system of actors."
Bleu Oleander: happy to talk about any subject though :)
Eos Amaterasu: The "entire system" is the basic unit, rather than "individual in the system"?
Adams Rubble: there is "tribal" generosity and universal genrosity
Adams Rubble: I think Eos and I may be sayong the same thing?
Bleu Oleander: accounting concepts begin to become important as the groups get larger
Bleu Oleander: yes :)
Eos Amaterasu: although then you might hit certain plateaus where being generous without accounting is cheaper and more effective
Adams Rubble: I have noticed that some of my right wing acquaintances are extremely generous to their circle and not very understanding about the plight of others
Eos Amaterasu: how wide is the circle, how big the system....
Adams Rubble: that is the tribal thing
Bleu Oleander: so trust enters into it too
Eos Amaterasu: there's prevailing meme that looking out for #1 is the effective way to run markets and society both
Bleu Oleander: when do you trust that someone is really in need?
Eos Amaterasu: and good side effects trickle down
Adams Rubble: I always wonder if people really truly believe that or say that cynically (looking out for #1)
Eos Amaterasu: the city of Medicine Hat Alberta is being successful in eradicating homelessness
Adams Rubble: :)
Eos Amaterasu: the simple approach: provide the homeless a home, within 10 days
Eos Amaterasu: costs are an order of magnitude cheaper than with current approaches
Bleu Oleander: very interesting!
Eos Amaterasu: so no accounting: no home? here, this is your home!
Eos Amaterasu: then when you roll up the costs afterward, you find you've saved enormously
Eos Amaterasu: same idea as guaranteed or unconditional basic income: no accounting or questions asked - you get enough to live on
Adams Rubble: that argument does not seem to work in U.S. :)
Eos Amaterasu: or more precisely, our society and technologies are successful - so share that success
Eos Amaterasu: Martin Luther King Jr was into UBI
Bleu Oleander: yes that's what the researchers were finding
Adams Rubble: UBI?
Bleu Oleander: they talked about "osotua"
Eos Amaterasu: unconditional basic income
Eos Amaterasu: osotua?
Bleu Oleander: a Maasai concept
Bleu Oleander: similar to what we're talking about
--BELL--
Eos Amaterasu: play has aspects of generosity
Bleu Oleander: studying the Massai concept was how they began their research
Eos Amaterasu: creating things and interactions that need not be, but create well-being and richness
Bleu Oleander: yes play plays an important role
Bleu Oleander: "Co-Directors Athena Aktipis and Lee Cronk have been involved with development of exhibits at the Exploratorium science museum in San Francisco for many years as Scientific Advisors for “The Science of Sharing” exhibit. The HGP team is now working with the Exploratorium to build interactive exhibits that illustrate the sharing systems that humans use across many societies."
Bleu Oleander: might be something for your museum Adams?
Adams Rubble: Dubrovna's museum?
Bleu Oleander: yes :)
Adams Rubble: In U.S. there seems to eb a political divide based on trust
Adams Rubble: that the majority of poor people are not out to "game" the system
Adams Rubble: (actually the rich do a good job of that)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eos Amaterasu: UBI recipients tend to spend money on food and education
Eos Amaterasu: basics
Adams Rubble: yes, contrary to the perception of some
Eos Amaterasu: re sharing, there's also need for personal and small group membranes, which control their own internal ecosystems
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eos Amaterasu: but then you might invite someone in, like leaving an empty seat at the table just in case
Adams Rubble: (I am being distracted by a spider outside my window that is being blown around in the breeze almost as if it is flying like a bee)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Adams Rubble: At the beginning I think you mentioned need or need-based" bleu - is that correct?
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: so sharing based on existing needs
Adams Rubble: one can give without expectation of anything in return
Bleu Oleander: exactly
Eos Amaterasu: that perhaps only happens when one is comfortable, and less needy, with one's own existence
Bleu Oleander: interestingly they are looking at managing water issues in Phoenix
--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: so can resource problems be solved using smaller group models?
Adams Rubble: yes, those individuals are extraordinary individuals who give freely
Eos Amaterasu: energy as resource seems tractable with smaller group models
Eos Amaterasu: distributed energy generation
Adams Rubble: water resources are a good example of an issue needing trust
Adams Rubble: trust that the other person is not using the water you save
Bleu Oleander: well I don't think you need to be that comfortable ... some share when they see a real need regardless of how needy they are themselves ... which was interesting to think about
Adams Rubble nods
Bleu Oleander: yes Adams :)
Eos Amaterasu: that's true, generosity actually seems inversely proportional to wealth
Bleu Oleander: trust turns into an accounting issue large scale :)
Adams Rubble: very large scale
Bleu Oleander: so people see others using and wasting water and think to themselves, why should I conserve?
Bleu Oleander: same with recycling
Adams Rubble: our gift to the earth :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: well must get going
Bleu Oleander: thank you both
Bleu Oleander: interesting conversation :)
Eos Amaterasu: Ciao Bleu, and Adams
Adams Rubble: bye bleu :)
Eos Amaterasu: will also deepart
Bleu Oleander: take care :)
Adams Rubble: bye Eos :)
Bleu Oleander: bye bye
Adams Rubble: have a nice Sunday both of you