2015.05.07 13:00 - although of course, this is life, too

The Guardian for this meeting was Shinju. The comments are by Shinju.

Qt Core: hi Shin
Shinju: Qt! ;) Hiya
Shinju wonders if she will leap up from her cushion after typing each time
Shinju: answers that :)
Qt Core: :-)
Shinju: How are you doing, Qt? Manage to rest?
Qt Core: some, then i find way to tire myself on my own ;-)
Shinju grins
Shinju: I want so much to be in SL more lately, and yet life keeps happening

Shinju: I have enough time, but not at the right times, if that makes sense :)
Qt Core: yes it does, my timezone make this session easy for me, just swap some past dinner tv times for sl
Shinju: perfect
Shinju: at some point it lined up that way for me too... that sessions fell at natural openings
Shinju: especially morning sessions
Shinju shrugs :)

Shinju: if no one else shows up, want to visit the Blade Man exhibit with me?
Shinju: Unless a topic you have on your mind :)
Qt Core: no, no serious topic on my mind, scary name Blade Man...
Shinju: OOps// Blade Runner I meant
Shinju: hah, I got it crossed with a very strange Korean TV show I liked
Shinju: Curious gave us LMs last session to the Blade Runner exhibit
Qt Core: even scarier, blade runner...
Shinju laughs
Shinju: I may have Curious's exhibit LM too

Qt Core: with all the bad things around i don't really understand dystopic science fiction ;-)
Shinju: hahah very good point
Shinju: it may be why over the last year I retreated into some things that a few years ago I would have deemed 'fluff"

--BELL--

Qt Core: but then is hard to build tension/adventure/struggle in a perfect world
Shinju: sure :) I was reading a session this morning, where you and wol were talking about the "good enough principle"
Qt Core: remember we talked about that don't remind what i said, that is not good enough :-)
Shinju: Hm, well you two were basically discussing...let me think...hah... read a few sessions at once and might have gotten details mixed with a session with Bruce about randomness
Shinju: which had similar points sprinkled about

Qt Core: wondering about Bruce, it is a few days since i've seen him around
Shinju: He had someone working on his house/farm, who arrived at session time, last time when he missed
Shinju: :) life getting in the way for him that day
Shinju: although of course, this is life
Shinju: too :)
Qt Core: more a Digital life than really a Second one
Shinju: true, although for me it has dipped that way for periods.. when it ran parallel in a sense
Shinju: an nearly as immersive, or more so in some ways

Shinju: apologies but I think the session with wol went into talking about systems, example of security used, but I can't find it atm and would rather be *here* besides :)
Qt Core: np
Shinju: that even the things we are most careful with, still run on a "good enough" principle
Shinju: have to at some point, be okay with that

Qt Core: perfection isn't something from this world/plane of existence
Shinju: do you think there are "moments" of perfection?
Shinju: not asking objectively... but for sense of things
Qt Core: when you feel the pieces falling in their place and get some form of enlightenment whatever the topic ?
Shinju: could be, or moments of perfect satisfaction with whatever are the objective conditions
Qt Core: that was option n.2, yes
Shinju: :)
Shinju: can you think of the last time you felt that?
Qt Core: remembering some instances, can't just set for the last, some of the last where at the gym or while around on my bicycle, but that was probably just having shut down most of the brain

--BELL--

Qt Core: so i stopped thinking about whatever issues was going on
Shinju: interesting... was brought to the same notion...
Shinju: although it doesn't often come when working out :)
Qt Core: sometimes when cooking, with the radio on and no one around
Shinju: in your element?
Qt Core: then i lose the sense of time and something burns
Shinju smiles
Shinju: the sweet spot would be when it simultaneously cooks at just the right pace... but requires entire world enlightenment/integration maybe, hha

Qt Core: but i think this is more a meditation thing, you "just" don;t think/feel/notice anything else, more than being at peace with it
Shinju: sometimes I think of it as levels, where meditation is just the gateway or training or 'everything' meditating or "non-meditation" some call it...
Shinju: then sometimes it isn't about levels but flavors
Shinju: like, before I practiced meditation, I prayed...
Shinju: but when I began meditation, I felt like prayer had opened into something more inclusive
Shinju: hm, difficult to express, for something so simple

Qt Core: was prayer limited as being limited to you and God while meditating isn't ? some may say that there is only you in meditation, others that there is you and all the universe
Shinju: hm, nice question, thinks...
Shinju: less objective in meditation
Shinju: less expectation of becoming a certain something also
Shinju: dropped objects
Shinju: thankfully, I had a hard time ever connecting with an idea of cookie-cutter god, which is why though I desperately wanted to, I couldn't stay in churches....
Shinju: but come to think of it now... I really wanted to be accepted, acceptable... "good enough" !
Shinju: to do something worthy of being alive :)
Shinju: not sure if I got that baggage from religious upbringing but it was there

--BELL--

Shinju: also felt really powerless to help anyone/change anything.. so prayer and belief itself, gave that a place for expression
Shinju: did you have a religious upbringing Qt?
Qt Core: how you can not have it in Italy ? ;-)
Shinju: :)) true

Shinju: what did you 'pick up' that you see differently now, anything?
Qt Core: that God and the church/churches are two different things mostly
Shinju: how so? church as system?
Qt Core: and as encrusted with two thousands years of struggle for power
Shinju nods....
Shinju: yet also housing astounding artistic and literary insight
Shinju: (hard to separate religion and culture)

Qt Core: oh, for sure, every time i go in Milan city centre and my eyes catch the Duomo i have to stop and look at it for some time
Shinju: transmitted moment of perfection
Shinju: that must be amazing
Qt Core: it is, as most gothic architecture a little colder than other styles, but it seems more perfect in its precision
Shinju: humbling
Qt Core: that can be said af whatever big building ;-)
Shinju: like, I was musing with a picture Eden posted when she stepped in for me "Oh God thy ocean is so great and my boat so small."
Shinju: which cannot :P

Qt Core: a few times i found myself calling it big brother, in a good way i mean
Shinju: not about size so much as transcendence perhaps
Shinju: :)) big brother?
Qt Core: always there, big, ok, way bigger, a little rough with all its spires...
Shinju: like a mountain?
Qt Core: no, just the architecture just being "pointy"
Shinju: :))

Shinju: thinking of the imposing presence it must be
Shinju: defining everything around
Qt Core: that become reassuring in a way
Shinju: nice
Qt Core: for many decades there was a (maybe even written) law that stated that nothing in milan should be higher that it

--BELL--

Shinju: was that out of reverence or out of aesthetics?
Qt Core: both i presume, now it just has to be far away enough
Shinju: although I guess in many small towns here there is also that rule, sort of, that the church chapel is often the highest point.
Shinju: prob not a written law though :)
Shinju: attended a lovely wedding in a town in Vermont once, where that was the case... could see the steeple of a certain rather small church, from all around
Qt Core: Hi Eden
Shinju: wb, timely poofing :)
Qt Core: true that the church is usually the highest building


Shinju: Oh, Hi Eden... you look so beautiful
Eden Haiku: Hi Dhin, hello Qt :)
Eden Haiku: Thank You Shin :-)
Shinju: Nice to meet you too, Blanche
Eden Haiku: My cat says hello but isn't trained to answer yet :)
Shinju smiles
Shinju: you seem like a goddess today
Eden Haiku: It's a blonde hair, I felt like a change for Spring :)
Qt Core: like if someone could train cats ;-) (and that's why i like them)
Shinju: hahah
Shinju: true
Shinju: my cat almost has me trained
Qt Core: that's happen a lot

Eden Haiku: Well, I know aht you mean. But you know...
Eden Haiku: Blanche isn't a REAL cat...
Shinju: ^.^ No??
Shinju: >gasps<
Eden Haiku: She's a virtual cat who can follow silly commands, even if French ...
Shinju: lovely
Shinju: my cat at home is a kinesel (sp?) like in harry potter
Eden Haiku: But I have to master the commands :)
Qt Core: [just noticed it, silly me]

Eden Haiku: Oh, a beautiful cat. Do you mean a Maine Coon Qt?
Qt Core: ?
Eden Haiku: That's the kind of cat in Harry Potter I think. A kind of lynx no?
Qt Core: Kneazle, a magical species (don't know what real cat they used)
Shinju: oooh... well he is like that inasmuch as we thought he was a cat but doesn't quite fit the description tempermentally, like a kneisel
Shinju: :)
Eden Haiku: Looking up what you mean by kinesel,,,
Shinju: I keep doing searches, which keep coming up in german haha
Shinju: not important, just sort of an aside reference :)
Shinju: but I do know lots of cats who can b trained in some ways... cats who let their human friends walk them, or who fetch, like ours
Eden Haiku: yep! it looks like a lynx a bit. Is it a big cat Qt?
Eden Haiku: Your cat fetches?
Qt Core: it should be a large cat, yes
Shinju: yes!
Shinju: little balls of paper
Eden Haiku: Like a ball?
Shinju: and brings them back
Shinju: yes

Eden Haiku: Did any of you had a chance to read Adams session about rolling coal?
Qt Core: http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Crookshanks
Shinju: I did! I caught up on sessions this morning and was appalled! Eeew

--BELL--

Shinju: Oh, thanks qt!
Eden Haiku: Ah that,s Heramione's cat. I thought you meant the janitor's cat. At Pouldlards

Shinju: very good questions asked in that session though
Eden Haiku: Yes, about evil and good...Many aspects. Trolls, griefers, computer virus...
Shinju: "god n guns" folks... such strange combinations of qualities
Eden Haiku: Yes....
Shinju: what makes someone want to do something so awful... serving no purpose... but I guess if I do actually try to consider it...
Shinju: I can. I mean, if I believed that my country and way of life was being taken over by god hating liberals using climate changes as an excuse...
Shinju: and that it would eventually lead to all kinds of dangerous others with value systems I deplore taking over my children's minds...
Shinju: would I do something so disgusting?
Eden Haiku: ah, I see that you can see from their viewpoint Shin... it makes the topic clearere

Eden Haiku: For Qt, this is what we are talking about (Wikepedia quote)>Rolling coal is the practice of intentionally disabling the Clean Burn Programming of a computer controlled diesel engine, so that the vehicle can emit an under-aspirated sooty exhaust that visibly pollutes the air. Practitioners tamper with their vehicles' emissions controls in open defiance of environmental regulations.>

Shinju: (no I wouldn't, because my very religious grandmother was a ferociously loving person and even if narrow in views would be more likely to try to love more than raise arms
Shinju: and it IS a very violent thing to do)
Eden Haiku: Beautiful.
Qt Core: ohh, of all the silly things to do...
Shinju: silly? LOL
Shinju: I love that, seems kind

Eden Haiku: I have been reading Ingrid Betancourt's book about her experience of being a FARC's prisoner in Colombia for many years. She does resist to hatred with all her might. A great book.
Shinju: Oh?
Eden Haiku: The FARCs aren't the Nazis, but still they maintain her prisoner for years in the jungle and some show some cruelty (especially after her fourth attempt at escaping.
Shinju: that's something I find amazing... that someone could keep their will alive in cruel circumstances... enough to keep trying to escape

Qt Core: having troubles grasping that idea (the rolling coal) beside pollution and climate changes don't they agree that it is poisonous ?
Eden Haiku: No Qt, they think it's quite ok...
Shinju: qt, they intentionally direct it at bicyclists and prius owners ... and buy the largest most imposing gas-guzzling vehicles they can
Shinju: so it is a big F U
Shinju: performance art, if you will
Shinju: :P
Qt Core: and then have a lot of it around their homes and kids too...
Shinju: but also not just a statement
Shinju: imposing on others
Shinju nods
Eden Haiku: Performance art, yes...The poisonous kind ...
Shinju: indeed
Shinju: like people who hang huge confederate flags
Eden Haiku: The old question of good and evil...
Shinju: even knowing what it evokes for people
Shinju nods
Qt Core: more like "as they know..."
Shinju: hm, yes

Eden Haiku: It cannot be just ignorance and this case of rolling coal. More like arrogance
Shinju: and then one has to accept... that those same people might feed the hungry, take care of their elderly, provide well for their kids, etc
Qt Core: the only confederate thing i like is the General Lee car from that old tv series ;-)
Shinju: :)

--BELL--

Eden Haiku: Same people, evil aspects, good aspects. Like in all of us I suppose...
Shinju nods
Eden Haiku: But I have the arrogance to think that our evil aspect is much more tamed than theirs...
Shinju: :) I admit I just erased a line that was something like "learning curve"
Shinju: but I do believe that empathy is a higher quality
Eden Haiku: Why did you erase it Shin?
Shinju: a next evolution
Shinju: well, it sort of implied that I think my own state of views as elevated by comparison
Shinju: which i do, also realizing that it is a priority of my life to examine them
Eden Haiku: It looks like that, empathy is higher I agree,,,
Shinju: which is a gift as much as determination

Shinju: it hits such a heart for me, because what the church of my childhood is so different from the political entity I see around me
Shinju: that church, or those I knew, were all about love
Shinju: or maybe I just didn't see the other sides
Shinju: now it feels so forceful/political/demonizing
Eden Haiku: I have the same catholic programmation, I know what you mean,,,

Eden Haiku: It's very ingrained in me. Love is higher than anything. Love you ennemy and so on...
Shinju: yes
Eden Haiku: Do you feel that kind of programmation in you Qt?
Shinju: I'm extrapolating one thing to another too far maybe, but it does seem entangled
Shinju: Us and Them
Qt Core: i don;t think
Eden Haiku: Being a woman and a catholic makes the love programming even stronger...

Eden Haiku: I had a miserable day today.
Shinju: :(
Eden Haiku: After conflict with my dentist yesterday
Shinju: (((Eden)))
Shinju: conflict?
Eden Haiku: Yes. I don't want to go into details, but we clashed. Again...
Shinju: longterm relationship?
Eden Haiku: It's long hours of dental work (for a bridge). It stresses me out a lot.
Shinju: ah, yes, awful :(((
Eden Haiku: Yep. He's been my dentist since 2005. Made that bridge that he has to rebuild 10 years later,,,
Qt Core: so as it is WIP no change of dentist at the moment too
Eden Haiku: I love the other dentist who does the surgery of the implants, though so I thought I could go for implants to complete the work.
Eden Haiku: But this one way he brings up the cost and has me sign a paper of consent for future work while I'm still on the chair, stressed out.
Shinju: ack
Eden Haiku: I find it very offensive.
Shinju: needs sensitivity training
Shinju: lots of people are terrified of dentists
Eden Haiku: So I emailed him I wanted to have the form I signed returned as cancelled.
Eden Haiku: Now I'm terrifiede to loop up my emails and see his answer.
Shinju: sigh
Shinju: maybe will surprise you, maybe he will let it go since such a long relationship
Eden Haiku: I didn,t cancel the surgery with the other dentist. Early June. Will ask him if possible to work with another one for the implants. But ythey work together ususally, though in different part of town..
Eden Haiku: Sorry for this long complaint...
Shinju: I'm suspecting my previous dentist of insurance fraud. it has been really difficult to get records sent to new dentist, and I think it is because he billed for 3 or 4 surgeries when I only had one... so please don't worry. I empathize and just try not to let my own experience project onto yours :))
Eden Haiku: I suspect something like that too...

--BELL--

Shinju: we got approval for all surgeries but life kept happening and I kept putting it off
Shinju: I didn't think he kept payment if received, though
Qt Core: i have a standing issue with mine too, he never awaits for th anesthetic to kicking it befor startint to work
Shinju: isn't it amazing how sometimes one must work themselves up strongly to complain about basic things?
Eden Haiku: And he's Arabic and I feel islamophobic and I feel guilty to feel like that,.. So let me be humble in front of the rolling coal guys..Evil is me too obvioulsy :-(
Eden Haiku: How horrible Qt. Is he a sadist?
Shinju: ah, sometimes we have visceral feelings to deal with too, but seeing them means becoming sensitive right?

Eden Haiku: A taxi driver who saw me crying once in his cab as I was coming from the dentist told me; «all dentists are terrorists».
Eden Haiku: I made me laugh so much.
Shinju: :)
Qt Core: no, he say i have deep nerves that taka a lot of time and anesthetic to get to sleep
Shinju: but he needs to get to know you in particular
Shinju is feeling conscience convicted about my "god n guns" comments - linking them to rolling coal people.... a leap of reasoning that is not fair to all
Qt Core: and then the faster they go tme more patient/clients that may have
Shinju nods

Eden Haiku: It,s obviosuly not true. (about dentists/terrorsits)The other one, the surgeon (peridontist) is a sweet Italian with blue eyes who sings in Italian when he sees I'm too nervous...
Shinju: lol
Shinju: sweet
Eden Haiku: They
Qt Core: :-)
Eden Haiku: yes: they...
Shinju: but there is the joke for a reason, like Little Shop of Horrors film
Shinju: personifying people's fears
Shinju: (there is an evil dentist type in that)
Eden Haiku: And we are dependent on them...We need our dentists...
Eden Haiku: Hermione's dad and mom are both dentists,,,
Shinju: true :))
Eden Haiku: And they are no sorcerers,,,
Shinju: yes...and did pretty well.... good people even if not magic :)
Eden Haiku: They terrorize little children...
Eden Haiku: yes, you are right Shin...
Shinju: what I remember of church when little, was that time of sitting with conscience and "letting god search my heart"

Qt Core: i think that parents/relatives/friends terrorize little children about dentists
Shinju: yeah, my mom was terrified
Shinju: so i thought I was very brave not to be scared, but then got older and had more complicated work :)
Shinju: arrogant little sh*t? hehe

Eden Haiku: My mom told me they where going to give me candies and brought me some place. I was around 6. Then this man in white take sme by surprise, puts me across his shoulder and carry me. I yell.
Shinju: oh no
Eden Haiku: And then they put a mask on my face. I fly out of my body and hover below the ceiling
Eden Haiku: I could hear them talk.
Eden Haiku: They took off my first teeth...
Shinju: so young :((
Eden Haiku: No Tooth Fairy in my family as you see.. It was a big trauma.
Shinju nods.... really sad
Eden Haiku: As I woke up at dawn, still stressed and tried to go back to sleep, the dentist coming to me from behind my back while I am sitting on the chair came back to me and I saw it was the trauma running through my nerves again...
Shinju: will recur until you find a strategy maybe :((
Shinju: my daughter had an early dentist trauma, but not so young. What helps her is that she will only deal with a dentist who tells her everything in great detail/ But still quite stressful
Eden Haiku: Did a lot of EMDR about it. But it's never finished, I don't know whay...
Shinju: not many traumas that one has to put themselves into the scenario over and over again

--BELL--

Eden Haiku: Yes, strategy. But I tried to talk to him but he seems. to be deaf. He doesn't see my point. Thinking about talking about the other dentist about that. But not sure. They work together. It's a sensitive subject,,,
Shinju nods... even if they feel whatever one would hope they'd be professional
Shinju: I wish you luck!
Eden Haiku: Thank you. And thanks for listening :)
Shinju: :) hope it helps you to sleep somehow and that things go smoother from here

Eden Haiku: Is there any 12 steps group for dentist,s victims? hehe
Shinju: hah, I wouldn't be surprised!
Shinju: googling, lots comes up about dental trauma

Eden Haiku: Oh, I'm afraid I bored Qt...
Qt Core: no, i just crashed
Eden Haiku: Ah no computer problems Qt?
Shinju: he was booted off an hr ago too
Shinju: seems to be a rhythm
Eden Haiku: Dental trauma... I will google that Shin, thanks for the tip.

Shinju: I need to go for real ..
Qt Core: bye shin
Eden Haiku: Bye for now sweet Shin.
Shinju: lovely talking to both of you and hope kitty brings comfort too
Eden Haiku: Thank you both for listening to me and my drama today :-)
Qt Core: :-)
Shinju: (((hugs))) shared trauma drama
Eden Haiku: Ys, kitty is very helpful. Love her ,
Shinju: bfn
Eden Haiku: Hugs to you two ;_)